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Griva

Next Clan battles season format

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[RAGE]
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CV storm is still on but everyone tasted how it works and what is going to happen next, thats why I want to know, what do you think from realistic point of view about next season?

More precisely, personally I am very concerned about format of next season.

 

There are probably 3 options what can happen. In first case everything will stay the same in 7 vs 7 format without CV.

Second option is scary for me and it's 7 vs 7 but with 1 carrier allowed and the last, third variant is similar but 8 vs 8.

Even if some aspects of CV rework succeed, in general it is big fail and lets be honest - WG don't know what to do with some problems created in 0.8.0.

 

 

Personally, as I said I am scared that I will not enjoy clan battles anymore with CV meta and I would like to stay in current 7v7 format and here is why:

 

First of all and the most important one,  I really enjoy the surprise element in clan battles. Without CV ships are unspotted for first 2-3 mins and this gives possiblity to take some interesting or uncommon positions.

Moreover it allows clans to use any strategy they want, you can lemming train one side or split 1-6, 2-5, half ships per side or pick even 3 different directions and all these strats are doable and viable in most of maps.

Second, related to the first one - you need to put effort to spot enemy ships and control the situation to be not surprised by some strange counterattacks. I like it becuase it gives a lot of creativity to players.

Thrid - game is enjoyable to everyone, whatever you play, BB, CA, DD, the game is fun. Ofcourse DD's are harder to play in competetive but still they got very important key role. By adding CV's to the setup, the game can be not fun.

I don't know if CV's are going to be nerfed again to the ground or buffed strongly but if so in result CV gameplay will be fun and other classes doomed or CV gonna be weak and unplayable. The most funny part is that other classes will be not fun as before anyway, just becuase it's not fun when you are striked by some unreachable "God" player and I think if we had to choose game with or without CV, every sane person will pick game without carrier.

Fourth - It will be almost impossible to run away to survive the game (on low hp). This is maybe just change of meta but I don't like it, if I manage to survive from enemy fire and go concealment - I am currently rewarded but with CV meta I think finishing these kind of ships will be the main goal of carriers. The worst part is I don't even have to be low HP, If I go alone somewhere I will be easy target for carrier or I will be forced to show my side.

This results in poor tactical meaning of splitting ships across the map. Possibly no more flankers.

Fiveth - In next update WG try to fix the radar problem for DDs. Assuming the best scenario: radars are not such big problem anymore, the new one is coming - overspotting. Instead of radar, planes will try to spot DD and this is very bad design for cap play. Currently people try to manage radars, keep 1 or 2 ships next to the rock, smoke them and sync all allies to do it. With planes it's possible to spot almost every time with possiblity to decap by rockets. This will result in selecting only DD with defensive AA.

Sixth - CV player as deciding factor. I am not 100% sure but carriers will survive most of games. Ships in CB are oragnised so it will be harder to kill enemy CV. This way I can imagine classical end of the game as  CV, CA vs CV or even CV vs CV. I don't think I want to see carrier duels as deciding factor aka Arti duels from world of tanks... and again there will be a loooot of overspotting in the last part of the game = no running away.

 

// EDIT, Seventh - As @Tyrendian89 pointed below, because of spotting, ships have to take insanely passive and back line routes - this slow down gameplay a lot or it will force everyone to play very agressive from the very first minute.

 

 

TLTR; Simply speaking overspotting will break tactical positioning/splitting of ships, creativity of players and DD's role in contesting caps.

I think we partly find out how it works after KOTS but still for me personally idea of CV in clan battles sounds very broken.

What everyone else think about this?

 

 

@MrConway do you have any informations about next cb format?

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[-RDE-]
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i'd like it to be 12 hour slots or even 24 hour slots thus making it easier to get groups together..

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[JR-IT]
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i'm a player who loved the old carriers, and as such i say, that yuo are totally right, it would become a campfest with smoke meta 2.0. In cb, there shouldn't be cvs

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[-HUN-]
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25 minutes ago, AgarwaenME said:

Fixed TLDR: " Waaah waaah CVs wwaaaaaaaaah!"

I don't agree with you but damn, I laughed :D

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[XTREM]
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Viable concerns. I'm sure they will come to CB, it's just a question of when. 

I don't know how it's going to work, but I'm hopeful it will. CB as we know it would change a lot, and I suspect it may be more than just a meta shift. 

 

Maybe the mode itself will be reworked from the ground up to accommodate, i.e. much more than just making it 8v8 or something. 

I realise this doesn't address your concerns, but I think the way CB is played nowadays will not be around forever.  

 

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[RAGE]
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47 minutes ago, Miragetank90 said:

Viable concerns. I'm sure they will come to CB, it's just a question of when. 

I don't know how it's going to work, but I'm hopeful it will. CB as we know it would change a lot, and I suspect it may be more than just a meta shift. 

 

Maybe the mode itself will be reworked from the ground up to accommodate, i.e. much more than just making it 8v8 or something. 

I realise this doesn't address your concerns, but I think the way CB is played nowadays will not be around forever.  

 

For sure it will not be forever. The main problem I see is overspotting and it's not just meta change but whole gameplay.

Currently you can sneak somewhere, surprise, be unspotted for half of the time and deceive enemy - I think this is essence of this gamemode and the reason why it's so interesting.

Adding ultra fast perm-spotting planes to the game makes game more flat/dumb and moving towards "lemming, pew pew, dodge, pew, pew". I can do pew pew in randoms :cap_yes:

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[SM0KE]
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My feeling is that the *sensible* thing to do would be to exclude CVs entirely, until the rework reaches a point where the substantial majority view it as (at least) tolerable; part of the reason why Ranked seems to have been (anecdotally, anyway) somewhat more popular this time around may be because one could escape CVs, if so inclined, in that mode.

 

If WG are hell-bent on ramming the new CVs down everyone's throat, and put them in the next season, I'm not sure too many will play them - once people realise that CVs are present, won't they just go AA build on their ships (and avoid weak AA ships), so rendering most CV players as little more than cannon fodder for the T10 AA horrors that will likely appear?

 

Were it me making the decision, I'd have at least one more CV-free season of CB, and then review for the one after...

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1 minute ago, Griva said:

For sure it will not be forever. The main problem I see is overspotting and it's not just meta change but whole gameplay.

Currently you can sneak somewhere, surprise, be unspotted for half of the time and deceive enemy - I think this is essence of this gamemode and the reason why it's so interesting.

Adding ultra fast perm-spotting planes to the game makes game more flat/dumb and moving towards "lemming, pew pew, dodge, pew, pew". I can do pew pew in randoms :cap_yes:

 

I agree.

Beyond that though I got nothing in terms of solutions to this. We can't disenfranchise CV forever... and yet... =/ 

 

It's an interesting conundrum. I'm not envious of WG's job, trying to make all this work. And what about the support CV lines they want? Planes that can cap, lay smoke... They were throwing these ideas around. 

And now we have subs coming soon.tm. Oh boy... 

 

We live in interesting times.

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[DC_DK]
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Over spotting???? The only ships you would be able to spot without losing the entire squadron is the other CV and their BB. your planes will be slaughtered by Worcester's and Des Moines.. 

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5 minutes ago, hgbn_dk said:

Over spotting???? The only ships you would be able to spot without losing the entire squadron is the other CV and their BB. your planes will be slaughtered by Worcester's and Des Moines.. 

uh huh... lemme just leave a little screenshot here, from a recent KotS training (so not the exact same format, but that's beside the point).

 

40Snos5.jpg

 

And another screenshot, showing things from the other perspective.

2ceXBZc.jpg

Look at the timer. Look at the Republique on the second screenshot (except you can't because he's still outside of render range). And then tell me again how CV spotting isnt such a big problem...

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14 minutes ago, hgbn_dk said:

Over spotting???? The only ships you would be able to spot without losing the entire squadron is the other CV and their BB. your planes will be slaughtered by Worcester's and Des Moines.. 

 

Ofc there is more spotting. Whether you lose the squad in the process is irrelevant. Being spotted in a wrong moment can lose a ship. Dead ship >>>> dead squadron.

Its not about dealing damage yourself. It will be about spot a ship for your team and they have to act.

See @Tyrendian89 for that (posted at the same time^^)

 

I agree with the OP. I hope they dont allow CVs atleast for the next CB season. Might even be that they arent finished with balancing till then, and in that case i believe we wont see CVs.

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1 minute ago, hgbn_dk said:

Over spotting???? The only ships you would be able to spot without losing the entire squadron is the other CV and their BB. your planes will be slaughtered by Worcester's and Des Moines.. 

 

What about Zao, henri, stalin and the odd hinden? The DDs? The des moines and wooster are in their own positions, and can't AA the whole team!

Even Des Moines and Wooster can be spotted without losing planes, they'll take a few ticks at most from the continuous dps, some damage but hardly slaughtered, and you've just delivered intel to your team just like that. Though you won't be able to hover over them if that's what you mean.

 

That fact that you can do that so easily in CV means it's tougher to take advantage of concealment to move to and play positions, or disengage when you need to, etc. 

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[DC_DK]
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Don't get me wrong.. I don't see CV's in next Clan season either... They really need to balance everything out before they get released. Or at least its what I hope they'll do

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6 minutes ago, Tyrendian89 said:
Spoiler

 

uh huh... lemme just leave a little screenshot here, from a recent KotS training (so not the exact same format, but that's beside the point).

 

40Snos5.jpg

 

And another screenshot, showing things from the other perspective.

2ceXBZc.jpg

Look at the timer. Look at the Republique on the second screenshot (except you can't because he's still outside of render range). And then tell me again how CV spotting isnt such a big problem...

 

 

 

That poor hinden... xD

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3 minutes ago, Miragetank90 said:

 

That poor hinden... xD

I mean, don't get me wrong. Mistakes were definitely involved in him dying like that - that's not my point. But to be certain to avoid things like that, or simply being focused and losing a bunch of HP, ships will have to take ridiculously passive paths (basically turn away from the enemy right at the start of the battle). And even then, the CV has already removed one significant part of the CB dynamics as they are now: outguessing your opponents on force distribution to the flanks, and creating opportunities that way. They'll know right away what you are sending where, and can react accordingly. All of that with the CV simply ramming a rocket squad down the middle of the map first thing - without the match even having properly started.

And there's, as the mechanics are right now, fundamentally absolutely nothing a team can do about this - the old RTS CVs at least had fighters to screen and zone and deny vision, which went completely out of the window now.

 

So yeah I'm with @Griva here - for the sake of the CB gameplay I've grown to quite enjoy, I hope CVs never make it there, because these are deep conceptual issues, not balance flaws. A format with CVs would be fundamentally different - which isn't to say it couldn't also be interesting in its own right once it matures, but it'd lack quite a few of the key ingredients that I'm fond of.

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2 minutes ago, Tyrendian89 said:

And even then, the CV has already removed one significant part of the CB dynamics as they are now: outguessing your opponents on force distribution to the flanks, and creating opportunities that way. They'll know right away what you are sending where, and can react accordingly

 

That spotting is already stupid in randoms. But having that in any battle clan vs clan ... :Smile_facepalm:

 

 

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No no no no. No. Everybody should have the chance to witness that beautifully balanced, gameplay enriching class first hand. In all game modes. With no limits. If a clan wants to bring four CVs, let them. Share the joy.

 

 

 

Seriously: hopefully having the class available in both a ranked team and a ranked solo mode in the foreseeable future will help balance it.

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[EST]
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Arms race ranked was huuuge success and thus CB will be the same, but no CV-s yet. 

Thats what im expecting from WG.

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[RO-RN]
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To much camp! Next season must be all about brawling, force everyone to brawl, introduce cyclones and storms into clan battles an entire season every battle will have cyclones or storms!

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How about CVs only on even numbered days ;) So Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday or on the odnumbered.

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[JRM]
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I dont think they ll change cb tbh its quite established as it is and quite popular as well so no need to fix?

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52 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

I dont think they ll change cb tbh its quite established as it is and quite popular as well so no need to fix?

 

If i recall correctly, MrConway/some Developer said in one of those Q&A streams, that they would like to be able to add CVs to CBs...

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[JRM]
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I know, IIRC they said something in the lines of "they will see" when asked about it

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11 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

If i recall correctly, MrConway/some Developer said in one of those Q&A streams, that they would like to be able to add CVs to CBs...

well yeah of course they would like to... that should be kinda obvious from their perspective. Doesn't mean they will definitely do it...

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