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DrMechano

Why did nobody tell me the Russian DDs are so much fun!

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Normally, I'm crap in DDs, like generally awful but thanks to a recommendation on this forum (in the "KV-2 of WoWs" topic), I decided to try the Podvoisky which I had unlocked waaaay back when they first came out and never went any higher. I saw that horrible detection range + 4km torps and shrugged my shoulders, thinking I couldn't make it work. Sure the American DDs were gunboats but they were still kind of stealthy. I wish I'd realised that the Russian DDs are basically mini-cruisers. It is kind of freeing to not bother with taking CE on a DD and just focusing on pure gunboating. There is no mistaking, the Pod is a derpy ship, great guns and hard hitting for a DD, kind either meh or awful (torps are basically there for when a BB REALLY wants to try to smoke rush you) for pretty much everything else with the exception of speed.

 

I blitz my way through the Podvoisky with a 60% win rate in 10 battles and an average of 33k damage which does seem like an outlier compared to the 17k on server average. A small sample size I know but I'm guessing that most approach the Pod the way I did initially. Thinking I'd have to island hug, sneak up on boats and drop torps at near suicide ranges. Now I'm on the Gnevny with a 78% win rate and 36k average damage in 9 battles (again a very small sample size).

 

So the question is, does the Russian DD gunboat line stay as fun as this or does it go downhill the further up the tree you get?

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6 minutes ago, DrMechano said:

So the question is, does the Russian DD gunboat line stay as fun as this or does it go downhill the further up the tree you get?

It depends from your play style, but in high tiers (T8-T10) you will meet very strongly gunned oposition - Cossack, Fletcher and her clones, Lighting, Jutland, Gearing, Daring, Kitakaze, Harugumo... With much better concealment, often with hydro, strong long range torps et cetera. Russian DDs are not bad, but in this meta they are not OP... (and Tashkent + Khaba are superlight cruisers). Ognevoi + Grozo are hybrids with better torps and better concealment, Udaloi is something weird thanks to bad concealment with strong 8 km torps, great guns and speed. Ognevoi + Udaloi were buffed by heal recently.

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It stays that way with only minor gameplay adjustments. Though the switch to playing the Khabarovsk can take a while if you insist on playing her like a DD rather than a CL.

Ognevoi is an outlier though so be prepared to play that one like an inferiour IJN torpboat if you wish to gring up to the Grozovoi.

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1 minute ago, DrMechano said:

So the question is, does the Russian DD gunboat line stay as fun as this or does it go downhill the further up the tree you get?

you ain't seen nuffink yet mate. Things only get better, especially once you hit the Kiev (which nowadays is probably the sweetspot in the speed-gunboat branch I'd say?).

 

Here's what you can look forward to:

Gnevny's a Podvoisky with much better fire rate. (honourable mentions to Grem, Anshan and Fushun, all of which are Gnevnys with usable torps...)

Minsk's a Gnevny with an extra gun (and Leningrad's a Minsk with usable torps...).

Kiev does everything better, including but not limited to usable torps, vastly improved gun layout (3x2 in turrets that actually turn for once), and (as of recently) a heal that you can take instead of the smoke.

Tashkent's pretty much just a larger Kiev with access to the T9 module slot and monstrous (for a DD) range. Trashcan no longer.

Kebab's a Tashkent that gets an extra turret but forgot its binoculars at home so it can't shoot further than you could throw a bottle of vodka. Suffers from severe nerfbat syndrome, but can still be hilarious.

 

As for the alternate branch, they're... weird. Very inconsistent and poorly put together by WG I'd say, but by no means weak.

Ognevoi only gets two turrets so its firepower absolutely stinks, but a half decent torpedoboat (and stealthy to boot). Can also mount DefAA. Overall more akin to a Benson with better ballistics and worse DPM than anything russian you're used to...

Udaloi gets the third back but loses the concealment again. Similar to Tashkent, smaller and more nimble, mounts DefAA, smoke and heal (but gives up Speedboost to get DefAA). Monster of a ship.

(Honourable mention for Neustrashimy, upcoming Steel ship also at T9, essentially an Ognevoi with even better concealment and RN CL superheal. Would fit into this branch soooooo much better than Udaloi does, but WG gonna WG.)

Grozovoi gets competitive concealment again (see what I mean about inconsistent?), and aaaaaaaaaall of the consumables. Has the firepower to absolutely murder most DDs it runs into if you have the brain cells required to not duel a Gearing at point blank range but make use of your superb ballistics and fight him at medium range. Bane of all Shimas because unlike Daring it can easily run them down.

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They really are a lot of fun. I'm very close to Khaba now, and have had Grozovoi for a long time. I've thoroughly enjoyed the Russian bias in all of them. According to science, it gets better the more bias you accumulate, which is directly proportional to tier.

 

Gotta. Go. Fast. 

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31 minutes ago, Tyrendian89 said:

you ain't seen nuffink yet mate. Things only get better, especially once you hit the Kiev (which nowadays is probably the sweetspot in the speed-gunboat branch I'd say?).

 

Here's what you can look forward to:

Gnevny's a Podvoisky with much better fire rate. (honourable mentions to Grem, Anshan and Fushun, all of which are Gnevnys with usable torps...)

Minsk's a Gnevny with an extra gun (and Leningrad's a Minsk with usable torps...).

Kiev does everything better, including but not limited to usable torps, vastly improved gun layout (3x2 in turrets that actually turn for once), and (as of recently) a heal that you can take instead of the smoke.

Tashkent's pretty much just a larger Kiev with access to the T9 module slot and monstrous (for a DD) range. Trashcan no longer.

Kebab's a Tashkent that gets an extra turret but forgot its binoculars at home so it can't shoot further than you could throw a bottle of vodka. Suffers from severe nerfbat syndrome, but can still be hilarious.

 

As for the alternate branch, they're... weird. Very inconsistent and poorly put together by WG I'd say, but by no means weak.

Ognevoi only gets two turrets so its firepower absolutely stinks, but a half decent torpedoboat (and stealthy to boot). Can also mount DefAA. Overall more akin to a Benson with better ballistics and worse DPM than anything russian you're used to...

Udaloi gets the third back but loses the concealment again. Similar to Tashkent, smaller and more nimble, mounts DefAA, smoke and heal (but gives up Speedboost to get DefAA). Monster of a ship.

(Honourable mention for Neustrashimy, upcoming Steel ship also at T9, essentially an Ognevoi with even better concealment and RN CL superheal. Would fit into this branch soooooo much better than Udaloi does, but WG gonna WG.)

Grozovoi gets competitive concealment again (see what I mean about inconsistent?), and aaaaaaaaaall of the consumables. Has the firepower to absolutely murder most DDs it runs into if you have the brain cells required to not duel a Gearing at point blank range but make use of your superb ballistics and fight him at medium range. Bane of all Shimas because unlike Daring it can easily run them down.

RU mid tier "DDs" got awhile ago turret traverse buff, so Podvo, Gnevny and Minsk have the same decent turret traverse as Kiev. Which frees them from EM requirement.

 

On other hand you still can tack EM on Fushun/Anshan and have workable turret traverse with actually great camo (with CE) and set of 8km torps

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5 minutes ago, Panocek said:

RU mid tier "DDs" got awhile ago turret traverse buff, so Podvo, Gnevny and Minsk have the same decent turret traverse as Kiev. Which frees them from EM requirement.

they did? must've missed/forgotten that... thanks! :cap_like:

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55 minutes ago, DrMechano said:

does the Russian DD gunboat line stay as fun as this

image.png.85e316961dab4f43d2af0bb9cdc35d90.png

 

:cap_rambo::Smile_glasses:

 

Pro tip, background music whilst doing ruski dd stuff

Spoiler

 

 

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Hmm if they are that fun i might have to try them out to be honest. Im quite used to hybrid dd’s at this point so should be a fun journey.

 

makes me wonder how fun russian bb’s will be as well.

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1 minute ago, CptBarney said:

Hmm if they are that fun i might have to try them out to be honest. Im quite used to hybrid dd’s at this point so should be a fun journey.

for trying something out, there's always the possibility of hopping onto the PTS when it's up - you quite often get T8 ships there (so Kiev in this case), which is great for testing a line you havent gone up on the live server yet.

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8 minut temu, Tyrendian89 napisał:

for trying something out, there's always the possibility of hopping onto the PTS when it's up - you quite often get T8 ships there (so Kiev in this case), which is great for testing a line you havent gone up on the live server yet.

That is how I realised that I am ready for English CLs and now I have a lot of fun with t6 and 7. On topic, you will love the whole main line all you need is AFT, BFT, AR, DE to maximise dakka dakka and fires. Keep the range on higher tiers running like a madman shooting without a break. AP on broadside CLs when close is very strong too. and torps can be used to yolo ambush BBs.

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16 minutes ago, Tyrendian89 said:

for trying something out, there's always the possibility of hopping onto the PTS when it's up - you quite often get T8 ships there (so Kiev in this case), which is great for testing a line you havent gone up on the live server yet.

Noice, i think ill test out all the dd lines that arent german or japanese (gone up both) werid how i never went up the american dd line on my steam account except on this one lol.

 

i cant wait for my pizza cruisers though :cap_haloween:

 

edit: reading the above comment it seems like they are quite the handful but quite versitile it seems. Hope they are good cap contesters i do like doing that but if not im still going to try them out.

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16 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

Hope they are good cap contesters

eh... sort of? On their own they're not because error 404 concealment not found (at higher tiers, except Ognevoi and Grozovoi), but they're great at supporting someone else going for a cap - essentially, find a friendly DD, follow him about 2km behind (depending on your exact build and ship), and rain hellfire and brimstone down on anyone that tries to bother your buddy. You have the ballistics for it, unlike say a Murican or Brit.

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1 hour ago, DrMechano said:

Normally, I'm crap in DDs, like generally awful but thanks to a recommendation on this forum (in the "KV-2 of WoWs" topic), I decided to try the Podvoisky which I had unlocked waaaay back when they first came out and never went any higher. I saw that horrible detection range + 4km torps and shrugged my shoulders, thinking I couldn't make it work. Sure the American DDs were gunboats but they were still kind of stealthy. I wish I'd realised that the Russian DDs are basically mini-cruisers. It is kind of freeing to not bother with taking CE on a DD and just focusing on pure gunboating. There is no mistaking, the Pod is a derpy ship, great guns and hard hitting for a DD, kind either meh or awful (torps are basically there for when a BB REALLY wants to try to smoke rush you) for pretty much everything else with the exception of speed.

 

I blitz my way through the Podvoisky with a 60% win rate in 10 battles and an average of 33k damage which does seem like an outlier compared to the 17k on server average. A small sample size I know but I'm guessing that most approach the Pod the way I did initially. Thinking I'd have to island hug, sneak up on boats and drop torps at near suicide ranges. Now I'm on the Gnevny with a 78% win rate and 36k average damage in 9 battles (again a very small sample size).

 

So the question is, does the Russian DD gunboat line stay as fun as this or does it go downhill the further up the tree you get?

Yeah, the Russian DD`s are great fun - I play them too every now and then :)

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1 hour ago, CptBarney said:

Hmm if they are that fun i might have to try them out to be honest. Im quite used to hybrid dd’s at this point so should be a fun journey.

 

makes me wonder how fun russian bb’s will be as well.

I'd say get to tier 5 in the Podvoisky (shouldn't take you too long) when seems to be the start of the russian DD gunboat style. One thing I will point out is that while its concealment is terrible for DD that this seems to work to your advantage. You have the firepower to outfight most other DDs of your tier or even +1 to your tier. A common mistake newer DD players seem to make is the "Oh crap enemy DD, must fire guns!" at which point they blow their cover and as pointed out in another thread "Podvoisky is in soviet union, if you kill what is spotting you, you cannot be spotted".

 

Current captain skills are:

1) PT (obvious for anything not a BB).

2) AR (though I would probably switch that to last stand but with AR you get some serious dakka).

3) BFT (Again might not be recommended but the -10% reload can come in handy)

4) AFT (No brainer for any DD not using 150mm guns)

5) PM (helps stop things getting knocked out)

6) EM (though I may respec out of this).

 

It is by no means a standard russian DD build and I'm sure there are better choices, like ignoring PM and EM and taking SE.

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Oi you never mentioned me, reported:Smile_izmena:.(jk)

 

I was the person to mention the blyatboats blin :C. And you got the quote wrong, it’s “in Soviet Union, you don’t get outspotted by capatalist/imperialist/facist DD, you send them to gulag, then none can outspot you” and don’t even bother taking CE unless you want grozi as your endgame boat, if going Khabarovsk then take AFT and maybe IFHE if you really want, then again the points are better reinvested in having bft, DE, a choice between SE for more hp or superintendent, or drop DE/bft to take both or vigilance so you can respond to torps better. Also do not forget the mandatory last stand, very usful since you are expecting to get spotted first and possibly take hits first.

 

Mag mod 1 or the anti det flag is optional, but considering the nature of the ship, can be a viable choice.(I myself have gone boom 2 times in podvisky, but don’t see it as a problem)

 

having been playing them cause I ran out of money to pay for gnevy(3 million credits communism my arse, but don’t tell Stalin about that)

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Just now, howardxu_23 said:

Oi you never mentioned me, reported:Smile_izmena:. I was the person to mention the blyatboats dang it :C. And you got the quote wrong, it’s “in Soviet Union, you don’t get outspotted by capatalist/imperialist/facist DD, you send them to gulag, then none can outspot you” and don’t even bother taking CE unless you want udaloi as your endgame boat, if going Khabarovsk then take AFT and maybe IFHE if you really want, then again the points are better reinvested in having bft, DE, a choice between SE for more hp or superintendent, or drop DE/bft to take both or vigilance so you can respond to torps better. Also do not forget the mandatory last stand, very usful since you are expecting to get spotted first and possibly take hits first.

 

Mag mod 1 or the anti det flag is optional, but considering the nature of the ship, can be a viable choice.(I myself have gone boom 2 times in podvisky, but don’t see it as a problem)

I'm sorry sir! I couldn't remember who it was that mentioned the Podvoisky, please do not send me to gulag!

 

But seriously, thank you man, because of you I've found my destroyer main for someone who hated destroyers, for that I am forever grateful. Would you suggest switching BFT for DE and say switching AR for LR?

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15 minutes ago, DrMechano said:

But seriously, thank you man, because of you I've found my destroyer main for someone who hated destroyers, for that I am forever grateful. Would you suggest switching BFT for DE and say switching AR for LR?

Well, Ruskies aren't exactly destroyers, more like cruisers.

 

If you get bored of them, I can only recommend Frech cruisers. Mid tiers not so much, but from tier 8 onwards they become 3xl RU DD - cruiser zipping around at 40-43kts slinging 203mm shells left right and baguette:Smile_izmena:

 

Your go-to RU gunboat should end up something like this

Przechwytywanie.png

 

PT or PM is up for debate, LS is mandatory, SE as well. BFT improves your main gun dakka as well AA, AFT adds extra range and makes flak bit more lethal, SI becomes essential from tier 8 onwards as Kiev, Tashkent and Kebab can equip heal instead smoke. Demo Kekspert for fires, or AR+PT/PM if you want more reliable buff.

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I personally prefer BFT due to the fact that my luck is not good, so may as well unload 10% faster that can give benefit to both HE and AP, of which The Stalinium made AP can actually citadel cruisers for noticeable chunks at close to mid ranges while DE just gives more fire chance to HE, which a) you still need to hit and b) hope that target doesn’t actually have fire Prevention, the one thing that I find annoying when trying to start fires with non-ijn ships(sometimes including them too) and fires can be healed 100%, but pens or overpen are both 50%, and weirdly overpen don’t take saturation into account, resulting in me basically spamming AP into the superstructure if near dead BBs with completely saturated superstructures and it actually working of all things.

 

t2 skills take last stand first, then it’s up to you for adrenaline rush, EM or even saving it for 4 t3 skills or 3 t3 skills and 2 t4 skills.

 

and always keep in mind about this: if you get radared, you don’t give a damm provided you are gonna get spotted anywaysm which is 70% of the time. Instead if you can, send the radar ship to gulag(avoid Atlanta of course, but Indianapolis? Hell yes)

 

edit: got ninjaed, but that is what I will take, except I would replace DE with vigilance instead. Old build without SE had vigilance, and has saved my butt more then once, especially with the rather slow turning speed.

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Just had hilarious moment in my Minsk where I was chasing down a Budyonny, firing at him all the way while he tried to run :Smile_izmena:. I think that's the first time I've ever seen a Cruiser being chased by a DD. The amount of time where being spotted isn't much of an issue and I just keep firing has been ridiculously funny. "But captain, that BB might see us" "Who told you to get off the guns, keep firing!" :cap_rambo:

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On 2/25/2019 at 4:58 PM, Tyrendian89 said:

Kebab's a Tashkent that gets an extra turret but forgot its binoculars at home so it can't shoot further than you could throw a bottle of vodka. Suffers from severe nerfbat syndrome, but can still be hilarious.

Very true. Kebab can also get penetrated by BB shells (unlike the lower tiers, which can be overmatched only).
Not to mention the Tashkent's torpedoes - good range and fast reload. Not the proto-deepwater torpedoes with almost unusable range the Kebab "boasts."


image.png.9471b0d81d711d743e8cd86b9dc10b0f.png     image.png.7d29bdbeb049c6d5dbf3eddd429d21c1.png

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1 hour ago, Blixies said:

Very true. Kebab can also get penetrated by BB shells (unlike the lower tiers, which can be overmatched only).
Not to mention the Tashkent's torpedoes - good range and fast reload. Not the proto-deepwater torpedoes with almost unusable range the Kebab "boasts."


image.png.9471b0d81d711d743e8cd86b9dc10b0f.png     image.png.7d29bdbeb049c6d5dbf3eddd429d21c1.png

A8809FB3-4FC7-4363-9A57-E48073D96DEB.thumb.jpeg.261e59a27b53a77963c8cb75a149d3f0.jpeg

:cap_tea:

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ognevoi, udaloi and grozovoi are very good right now! but kiev, tashkent and khabarovsk have been totally powercreeped by kitakaze and harugumo! never play those until they nerf the others!

Oh and everyone call them light cruisers! well in that case they are the worst cruisers in the game! ships like zao, hindenburg and especially the henry 4 do much better than you!

Edited by Animalul2012

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2 minutes ago, Animalul2012 said:

ognevoi, udaloi and grozovoi are very good right now! but kiev, tashkent and khabarovsk have been totally powercreeped by kitakaze and harugumo! never play those until they nerf the others!

But what's so good about Ognevoi? I'm kinda lost while playing her.

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