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mlgomez

Why do people dislike T10 and choose lower tiers?

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First off, I will go ahead and say it: Some of my T7-8 ships are among my favorites and most fun ships to play, so I can understand the appeal. But.... I see a lot of people saying that they dislike playing T10 ships. So far, my experience with the Yamato was, uhm..... decent. I like the lolpen guns on the ship and anchoring a position with it while I capitalize on team pushes. The unpleasant part is when the entire team potatoes so hard that you're left the only one alive against 11 ships. Within the first 4 minutes of the match. It happens, and oftentimes I get reported, possibly (judging by the chat) because your teammates believe you're on the most invulnerable ship in the world and should have pushed in to brawl an enemy in a flank where they have a numerical advantage. It can get frustrating and that is the only thing I think that sucks about T10 (though I think it will suck less on a ship like the Montana where people don't have unrealistic expectations).

 

What I want to get around to is the reasons why T10 sucks for some people. Correct me if I am wrong, but this is what I think might make it unappealing:
 

- The daka daka meta that forces ships into passive play if they don't want to become IFHE pinatas. Just park behind an island, and farm damage to your heart's content on ships that decide to bite the bullet and play the objective by pushing. Of course, the same can be said about the "other side," which makes things relatively balanced. But I guess people who enjoy more aggressive play may not enjoy T10 for this reason.

- The monotony of having a ship you're so familiar with that it becomes routine to play.

- The incredible skill gap sometimes observed in matches. I can put it this way: In my experience in T10, I often see a huge disparity in skill between two teams. I either end up blapping a few ships then suddenly noticing there is nothing left to blap after 3 minutes, or end up on the other side of that and the only one left alive against an entire team of solid-to-unicum players. Close matches are more rare in this tier compared to T6-8. And for some reason, many people will report you if they feel that your strategy, despite scoring highly and helping with the objective, was not good in their opinion.

 

I honestly find myself taking breaks from T10 play (especially since I am now enjoying the North Carolina) because of the third reason, but the others do not stir me up too much. But I wanted to find out any other reasons why people dislike playing in T10. If y'all could pitch in and help me find out more about this, I'd love it =)

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30 minutes ago, mlgomez said:

- The brainless daka daka meta that forces ships into passive play if they don't want to become IFHE pinatas. Just park behind an island, and farm damage to your heart's content on ships that decide to bite the bullet and play the objective by pushing. Of course, the same can be said about the "other side," which makes things relatively balanced. But I guess people who enjoy more aggressive play may not enjoy T10 for this reason.

It's not "daka daka" meta but rather the fact that there is a lot of guns that are pretty accurate AND manned by players that might suck but probably polished at least their aiming a little bit. Mistakes are punished harder than on any previous tiers and the easiest way to avoid making mistakes is to camp in a safe place. Unfortunately, this means that people that want to play more aggressively find themselves alone, focused by many ships that have little else to shoot at... so even without making obvious mistakes you can easily succumb to the sheer volume of enemy fire.

 

34 minutes ago, mlgomez said:

- The monotony of having a ship you're so familiar with that it becomes routine to play.

Not really a t10 issue, though - whether it's your favourite silver t6 or a t7 premium, the mechanism here should be the same?

 

35 minutes ago, mlgomez said:

- The incredible skill gap sometimes observed in matches. I can put it this way: In my experience in T10, I often see a huge disparity in skill between two teams. I either end up blapping a few ships then suddenly noticing there is nothing left to blap after 3 minutes, or end up on the other side of that and the only one left alive against an entire team of solid-to-unicum players. Close matches are more rare in this tier compared to T6-8. And for some reason, many people will report you if they feel that your strategy, despite scoring highly and helping with the objective, was not good in their opinion.

Again, this is not really due to the skill gap being greater but rather due to the more punishing nature of the gameplay. A ship that makes a blunder can be promptly destroyed. When a flank falls, the enemy can push and get the rest of the team in crossfire due to accurate long-range guns. This makes it easier to create quick local advantage AND easier to make use of that advantage to punish the rest of the enemy team. WoWs is an inherently snowballing game - and at t10 this might be even more pronounced.

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8 minutes ago, eliastion said:

It's not "daka daka" meta but rather the fact that there is a lot of guns that are pretty accurate AND manned by players that might suck but probably polished at least their aiming a little bit. Mistakes are punished harder than on any previous tiers and the easiest way to avoid making mistakes is to camp in a safe place. Unfortunately, this means that people that want to play more aggressively find themselves alone, focused by many ships that have little else to shoot at... so even without making obvious mistakes you can easily succumb to the sheer volume of enemy fire.

 

Not really a t10 issue, though - whether it's your favourite silver t6 or a t7 premium, the mechanism here should be the same?

 

Again, this is not really due to the skill gap being greater but rather due to the more punishing nature of the gameplay. A ship that makes a blunder can be promptly destroyed. When a flank falls, the enemy can push and get the rest of the team in crossfire due to accurate long-range guns. This makes it easier to create quick local advantage AND easier to make use of that advantage to punish the rest of the enemy team. WoWs is an inherently snowballing game - and at t10 this might be even more pronounced.

Thanks for your input! It really presents a perspective I haven't thought of. Especially when you talk about how punishing the gameplay is. T10 is indeed the Australian outback as far as WoWS is concerned and almost anything (*cough* Kitakaze *cough*) can kill you with little effort. I'm guessing that to some, T7-8 might have a more enjoyable pace, not because it requires less skill, but it is a bit more forgiving to an otherwise good player surrounded by a mediocre team. T10, in my opinion, leaves you helpless if you are surrounded by people who don't know what they're doing.

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1 hour ago, mlgomez said:

First off, I will go ahead and say it: Some of my T7-8 ships are among my favorites and most fun ships to play, so I can understand the appeal. But.... I see a lot of people saying that they dislike playing T10 ships. So far, my experience with the Yamato was, uhm..... decent. I like the lolpen guns on the ship and anchoring a position with it while I capitalize on team pushes. The unpleasant part is when the entire team potatoes so hard that you're left the only one alive against 11 ships. Within the first 4 minutes of the match. It happens, and oftentimes I get reported, possibly (judging by the chat) because your teammates believe you're on the most invulnerable ship in the world and should have pushed in to brawl an enemy in a flank where they have a numerical advantage. It can get frustrating and that is the only thing I think that sucks about T10 (though I think it will suck less on a ship like the Montana where people don't have unrealistic expectations).

 

What I want to get around to is the reasons why T10 sucks for some people. Correct me if I am wrong, but this is what I think might make it unappealing:
 

- The brainless daka daka meta that forces ships into passive play if they don't want to become IFHE pinatas. Just park behind an island, and farm damage to your heart's content on ships that decide to bite the bullet and play the objective by pushing. Of course, the same can be said about the "other side," which makes things relatively balanced. But I guess people who enjoy more aggressive play may not enjoy T10 for this reason.

- The monotony of having a ship you're so familiar with that it becomes routine to play.

- The incredible skill gap sometimes observed in matches. I can put it this way: In my experience in T10, I often see a huge disparity in skill between two teams. I either end up blapping a few ships then suddenly noticing there is nothing left to blap after 3 minutes, or end up on the other side of that and the only one left alive against an entire team of solid-to-unicum players. Close matches are more rare in this tier compared to T6-8. And for some reason, many people will report you if they feel that your strategy, despite scoring highly and helping with the objective, was not good in their opinion.

 

I honestly find myself taking breaks from T10 play (especially since I am now enjoying the North Carolina) because of the third reason, but the others do not stir me up too much. But I wanted to find out any other reasons why people dislike playing in T10. If y'all could pitch in and help me find out more about this, I'd love it =)

I unlocked the Yamato after many games in lower tiers and im having a similar experience. Actually im in the mid of my worst streak with any ship ever. Some of it is learning to play it and some of it is that i think it is a very co-dependent ship. Its worst than Izumo which was an one trick pony but you knew it from start. If yr team dont behave in a rational manner yr ded. Whatever you do or well you play (bar some miracle which dont happen against experienced players) you cant influence the result as much as in other tiers (again cuz players are experienced and they know all the tricks in the book). I realized that i slowly started playing worst and worst with the ship cuz of that, even after a couple of mins in game i knew this was going bad and i just couldnt motivate myself to try my best wanting the game to be over. Which I rarely did in the other tiers. Part of it is the toxicity there, but also the strange mm that sends the more experienced players in one team the less so or idk on the other. Is it on purpose? I dont think so but it is strange how usually one team just collapses mentally in mins or from start. I still like the ship and use but when i want to have fun I take the gneiss for a spin. Maybe it is just the ship, too co-depended to the support from team, or the huge disparity in dd play which is what i have noticed. Some ships just dont gel and there have been ships I really didnt like or played well but not like this. This is also on the teams, I had three games in row where the team died by the time I rellocated behind island to cover a cap. Literally I looked around after i heard the scary voice, no one left and it was a couple of mins before the 10 min mark.

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I like T10. They are the pinical of the grind. However, T10 doesn’t mean that there are players who have learned basics or skill. It’s easy to get to T10. A skilled player can do it in about 150 games. However any potato can free exp there way there. World of warships is a very forgiving grind. Easy to get exp and free exp. lots of special camps and flags given away on a regular basis. And a pretty nice economy up until T10. 

 

Now compared to say Tanks. Tanks required a huge grind and 1000’s of games before an average potato got there. Meaning in theory they had a least learnt the game the hard way. You can see it in game. It’s easy for the experienced players to grab a T10 game and then influence it early doors leading to a snowball. That’s why I think a lot don’t like 10. If you’ve not learnt the basics you get punished hard and quick. You can at least put up a fight in the low tiers as in theory there are still a lot of players in the early stage of learning to have an advantage over.

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It is the maps.

They are too open.

WG got that feedback over a year ago. They started to make changes (Okinawa), but the steps are too small.

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Have to agree with Pete.

High tier maps are bad / boring / promote camping. Main reason why I dislike playing at T10.

 

Same goes for clan battles, where all this reasons only multiply...

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15 minutes ago, nambr9 said:

Have to agree with Pete.

High tier maps are bad / boring / promote camping. Main reason why I dislike playing at T10.

 

Same reason for clan battles, where all this reasons only multiply...

I noticed that a lot. High-tier play often has wide open spaces that encourage long-range salvos and zero pushes.

 

1 hour ago, Bear_Necessities said:

I like T10. They are the pinical of the grind. However, T10 doesn’t mean that there are players who have learned basics or skill. It’s easy to get to T10. A skilled player can do it in about 150 games. However any potato can free exp there way there. World of warships is a very forgiving grind. Easy to get exp and free exp. lots of special camps and flags given away on a regular basis. And a pretty nice economy up until T10. 

 

Now compared to say Tanks. Tanks required a huge grind and 1000’s of games before an average potato got there. Meaning in theory they had a least learnt the game the hard way. You can see it in game. It’s easy for the experienced players to grab a T10 game and then influence it early doors leading to a snowball. That’s why I think a lot don’t like 10. If you’ve not learnt the basics you get punished hard and quick. You can at least put up a fight in the low tiers as in theory there are still a lot of players in the early stage of learning to have an advantage over.

I also like T10 because of the fact that it is a reward for the fact that I am finally getting a lot of things right in my gameplay lately. My charts show improvement. I often end up in top 3-5, even when suffering a defeat. And I also see a lot of players doing things they **really** shouldn't be doing, but it's nice when they're on the enemy team.

 

2 hours ago, lossi_2018 said:

I unlocked the Yamato after many games in lower tiers and im having a similar experience. Actually im in the mid of my worst streak with any ship ever. Some of it is learning to play it and some of it is that i think it is a very co-dependent ship. Its worst than Izumo which was an one trick pony but you knew it from start. If yr team dont behave in a rational manner yr ded. Whatever you do or well you play (bar some miracle which dont happen against experienced players) you cant influence the result as much as in other tiers (again cuz players are experienced and they know all the tricks in the book). I realized that i slowly started playing worst and worst with the ship cuz of that, even after a couple of mins in game i knew this was going bad and i just couldnt motivate myself to try my best wanting the game to be over. Which I rarely did in the other tiers. Part of it is the toxicity there, but also the strange mm that sends the more experienced players in one team the less so or idk on the other. Is it on purpose? I dont think so but it is strange how usually one team just collapses mentally in mins or from start. I still like the ship and use but when i want to have fun I take the gneiss for a spin. Maybe it is just the ship, too co-depended to the support from team, or the huge disparity in dd play which is what i have noticed. Some ships just dont gel and there have been ships I really didnt like or played well but not like this. This is also on the teams, I had three games in row where the team died by the time I rellocated behind island to cover a cap. Literally I looked around after i heard the scary voice, no one left and it was a couple of mins before the 10 min mark.

I think the toxicity comes from the pressure. You lose a lot of credits if your team potatoes too fast for you to have an impact. So everyone is on edge. The stakes are a bit higher. On the Yamato, you're not TOO dependent on your team, but yes, more so than in other BBs. You have to be near other ships and help anchor positions. The problem is when everyone is in a YOLO-charging mood and gets themselves killed by minute four. And this happens often in T10 because of what our friend @eliastion said. He was very insightful in saying that T10 is more punishing, so matches can end up an outright massacre very quickly if even three of the players on one side are potato enough not to do their jobs.

 

And as @Bear_Necessities also pointed out, the grind to T10 is very forgiving. One of the reasons why I didn't shoot straight "for the moon" with getting the Yamato and instead suffered through the Izumo was so that I could force myself to use a mediocre ship, which would teach me how to properly position, time my shots, pick proper priority targets, play the objective, and when to push and when to hold position. The experience of grinding through a ship without hurrying at all helped me master a few basics that helped immensely and made a difference in my gameplay and statistics. Just do your best, whatever the trouble may be, and play around the potato instead of against it. Embrace the potato. Be one with the potato. Potatoes are important to the European economy.

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Bypassing the "waaah waaaah my BB isn't immune to damage" stuff (it's the excuse, not the reason). :Smile_child:

 

There's another reason why people play lower tiers. You only have so much time to pay, and if you like to research new lines you tend to focus on playing those ships.

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I basically play what I "have" too.

When finished with Legendary Module grind, there is no reason to play T10, as I have other lines to finish.

There is not many missions that require T10 (good thing!).

When I will have have all the ships in game then I will decide which tier to play :Smile_Default:

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Personally I have two tier 10 ships (Minotaur and Conqueror) and rarely play them. The bottom line is I'm probably not good enough to play at that tier and be credit positive.

I much more enjoy playing T6/7 and a few T8 - Warspite, Leander/Fiji , Scharnhorst  and , recently, Normandie are my favorite ships.  

 

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2 hours ago, Sir_Grzegorz said:

I basically play what I "have" too.

When finished with Legendary Module grind, there is no reason to play T10, as I have other lines to finish.

There is not many missions that require T10 (good thing!).

When I will have have all the ships in game then I will decide which tier to play :Smile_Default:

Well, even when you've unlocked the Legendary Module you could still play the T10 ships until you get the 'bonus for the win of the day' along with any elite commander XP (although there must be a point where you have all the 19 point captains you could ever need).

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I'd offer a counterpoint -- why WOULD someone only play T10?

 

Reasons to not to:

  • There's a continuous change in ship and gameplay style across the tiers. Not better or worse, just different. Why not enjoy this diversity instead of playing the same T10 ships over and over?
  • Games are slow and campy in T10. I think it comes largely down to basic geometry: the ships enter WW2 era speeds around T5-7, and don't get any quicker in later tiers. Meanwhile, the maps get larger. IMO the most dynamic games are in mid-tiers.
  • Historical flavour and diversity is best in mid tiers. Especially in a T7 ship, I face ships from T5 to T9, which includes the whole range of ships fighting in WW2: from old WW1 veterans to late WW2 ships. In T10 I'll be fighting napkin scribblings.

Why I think people still play T10:

  • Comfort: you're guaranteed to be top tier. Few will admit to this, but I think this is the #1 reason. It's the key reason why I play T10 at all.
  • Some kind of a competitive thinking: 10 is the biggest number, therefore to be a cool guy I need to play T10.

 

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Why i dont even have T10 ships :

 

- Progress through the tech tree is not forgiving if you play all nation/type ships.

- Progress through the tech tree becomes even slower when using Premium ships - that have no progression - and use their FXP to save up for example the Nelson.

- Losing many matches after certain tier ( i think it is t8 in wows ) costs you huge sums of credits with tech tree ships.

- Playing Coop reduces your credit and xp income to such extend that progres will become even slower. I like to play Coop for relaxing play. I hate its bad reward though.

- Losing Operations reduces your credits and xp income to such an extend progress will become much slower. I like Operations very much. But due to teammates that have no clue how win those ops you lose a lot with dirt poor rewards for your efforts.

- I don't like the "random" nature of "random" matches much. Sometimes you have a great game, winning or losing. More often it's just a bad game with clueless (to put it polite) team mates. I also don't like you are all but forced to play random because even losing the rewards are good for your efforts.

- I only have 1 T9 because i could get it with coal. After that is a huge gap as my tech tree ships have just become t7 after being stuck for months on t6.

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Hi players,

 

I removed some off topic comments.Please stay in topic.

 

Have a nice day !

 

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1 hour ago, jss78 said:

Historical flavour and diversity is best in mid tiers. Especially in a T7 ship, I face ships from T5 to T9, which includes the whole range of ships fighting in WW2: from old WW1 veterans to late WW2 ships. In T10 I'll be fighting napkin scribblings.

"napkin scribblings" ....magnificent description! :Smile_honoring::Smile_teethhappy:

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I agree with those who have mentioned the credit costs. They are one of the reasons that so many people camp until they feel they have done enough damage to break even on repairs.

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Tier 10 is camp central and people don't like that, so they play lower teirs.   That and cost.

 

7 is the sweet spot.

 

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Short answer: Tier X meta shift. Much improved ships T8 => T10 (just look at BB HP), longer gun ranges, more guns (= more dps), bigger (sometimes open) maps, etc. etc.

 

Apart from CW I rarely play T10 because I simply do not enjoy the meta (and rather did not play T10 in WoT because of a similar meta shift of similar magnitude).

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25 minutes ago, Redcap375 said:

Tier 10 is camp central and people don't like that, so they play lower teirs.   That and cost.

 

7 is the sweet spot.

 

It's interesting that many people mention 7 as being the sweet spot. I actually enjoy T8 more for some reason. It has some of the more fun ships like the Massachusetts and North Carolina, and let's not forget the Cleveland, the Benson, the Bismarck, the Akizuki, etc. With the USN BB line, I feel I can't really say I enjoyed the Colorado a lot. I even FXP'd past it. The New Mexico was actually a bit of fun, but again, it suffered from the same problem as the former: Too slow. In general, I would get in a central-ish position and assist from there, but it gets to a point where you'd like to reach deeper into a flank and it takes you eons to even get there, let alone shoot anything.

 

With the DD lines, I feel that the USN line is my favorite. Fun to play, still experience Engaging™ detonations to give me thrills, and at one point the torps are actually a bit more than mere ambush tools.

 

T10 is, to me, more of a "wait for the enemy to make a mistake" kind of thing. The moment two or more teammates charge to break the monotony, I feel like slamming my head against the desk. 8/10 times, that means we're about to get eaten alive.

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7 IMHO because ALOT better MM with interesting ships (both premium and Silver).  It's also more of a "have a go" mentality. That dies completely at tier 10.  Do you think DD players will even think about playing "aggressively" when you have 2 CV's and 4 radar ships knocking around? Don't blame them.

 

Quote

T10 is, to me, more of a "wait for the enemy to make a mistake" kind of thing. The moment two or more teammates charge to break the monotony, I feel like slamming my head against the desk. 8/10 times, that means we're about to get eaten alive.

 

Because people want to have a quick fun kinda games.  Sitting in there own cap doesn't really make it fast paced and "fun" (yes objectively) 

 

chess is fun but in a different way, this isn't chess. 

 

Example:

DD goes to cap and dies (radar, enemy DD AND CV), followed by that poor supporting cruiser trying to help him as he gets light up like a Christmas tree from the CV.  2 ships down.

 

Next time they wont even think about pushing and hence why we have camping.  

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2 minutes ago, Redcap375 said:

7 IMHO because ALOT better MM with interesting ships (both premium and Silver).  It's also more of a "have a go" mentality. That dies completely at tier 10.  Do you think DD players will even think about playing "aggressively" when you have 2 CV's and 4 radar ships knocking around? Don't blame them.

 

 

Because people want to have a quick fun kinda games.  Sitting in there own cap doesn't really make it fast paced and "fun" (yes objectively) 

 

chess is fun but in a different way, this isn't chess. 

 

Example:

DD goes to cap and dies (radar, enemy DD AND CV), followed by that poor supporting cruiser trying to help him as he gets light up like a Christmas tree from the CV.  2 ships down.

 

Next time they wont even think about pushing and hence why we have camping.  

 

 

I am usually skeptical about DDs that YOLO into cap at T10. If they're making a calculated move and are in front of radar cruisers, fine. I usually tend to go along the same path as my DDs (though not necessarily following them) so I can offer support when needed and I can use their screening to let me analyze the map for potential dangers, choke points, ambush spots, etc. DDs do a lot just by staying alive, let alone getting torps on a BB that is particularly troublesome for me. Capping shouldn't be the first priority, as the team position already determines how the game will go and the caps come pretty much on their own. The first priority, imo, should be spotting, regardless of tier. And, of course, the job for the rest of us is to make use of their spotting by opening fire, something that I know frustrates DD mains because they often spot things that no one even pays attention to.

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"The incredible skill gap sometimes observed in matches."

 

This, really. 

 

I am not good enough to play T8 yet. When my T8 ships get up-tiered to face T10 or T9, the skill gap between me and other players is very evident.

 

I have a couple of never-sailed T9 ships and I could grind for a T10 -- but I know I would be a liability for my team and that I would also be so bad that I'd not enjoy playing the game, which is the whole point in playing. It's never fun being someone else's First Blood.

 

I am getting "below average" in T5 and T6 now and am gradually getting better---and am hope to be able to enjoy T10 within a decade or so.

 

 

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