Matchmaker Discussion Thread & MM Balance

[GarrusBrutus]

6 minutes ago, hogger4169 said:

I expect a fair split in terms of team, not all good on one team and all the junk on the other team.

I want no advantage, I want the mm to be fair.

Clear and simple...

News flash: This is as fair as it is ever going to get.

 

3 minutes ago, Darkeid said:

In addition to all the parameters that already exist in MM , the ideal way to move forward would be to take into account the personal rating of each player. Players from 5-300 ? Should only play together , 300-1000 , 1000+ and so on.

Here you see the average winrates for all players. So lets assume for a second you have my winrate. In the +5-5% bracket around 65% there are about 4000 players. How on earth am i going to have a single match with so few players. First of all they have to be online, they have to use around the same tier ships, etc.etc. My waiting time for a match would be infinite.

PR works roughly the same.

It is impossible for WoWs.

9 minutes ago, Darkeid said:

Imagine what would happen in other games if lets say platinum tier players were matched with bronze tier players.

I imagine youre aiming at Rainbow 6 Siege.

This is the amount of players playing R6S PC at this very moment:

Now even if you are a platinum player playing against other platinum players you have no issues finding a match.

Now WoWs:

See the problem?

14 minutes ago, Darkeid said:

In addition to this, the phrase: "The "problem" is a problem because you see MM as something problematic" can be resembled as an ostrich hiding its head underground. To you it might seem fine , to me, i would prefer it if i dont waste my time and the game automatically counts a defeat without starting because "Hey, its random MM".

That strikes me as a rather lazy attitude. A match is only won when the points tick 1000 or the timer hits 0:00.

Ill give you an example of a match I just had:

Team lemmings to one side, I die, I think "this is a certain defeat".

Spoiler

But what happens? The enemies try to win harder and push into our blob one by one.

Spoiler

 

That result wasnt due to MM that we won because you can check all my teammates.... They suck. The enemies? Not much better. Fairly even teams I'd say.

It is simply due to the mistakes made by the enemy team that we won.

MM is fine. The players attitude of "gotta win harder" or "This match is lost anyway so why bother" (<- sounds familiar Darkeid?) is the problem.

[Darkeid]

45 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

No it wouldnt. And I can explain you the three reasons, why.

A) you would create "a game within the game". Players with 300 PR noobing around in their own universum, never experiance how skilled players really play. Which makes is impossible for them to move up. Once they reach your 300 PR border and face the more skilled group... they dont understand whats going on, get raped and fall back to the <300 class.

B) Economy. This game is based around XP and credits. If you make it easier for the bad players (because it would be, since a game with only low skilled players prevents from people beeing deleted early. So they get more XP and credits. At the same time, skilled players need to put more work into gettign the same results. Like on the 300 PR group, you have perma broadside BBs too stupid to use DCP, while in the super unicum group, you have BBs dodging, controlling their fire perfectly etc. Why should the bad players get the same XP and credits as high skilled players for playing much worse? Nah, I dont see it.
C) Personal rating comes from kills and damage. IF you devide skilled players and bad players - the bad players will have their PR artificually boosted into super unicum ratings. Why? because now they get away with their mistakes. And get more damage and kills because all enemys are bad too. So then, essentially, you have noobs with a super unicum rating. Are they staying in the 5-300 Personal rating class, because looking at the skill - they still belong there. But according to your logic, they need to move up the super unicum class. There they get raped. Then what?

I am not trying to diss anyone, i am only suggesting.

A) not a valid argument, they will experience the game in stages which could also be argued as a more effective learning curve, as soon as they surpass 300? PR they will move up and down till they are able to face 1000? PR players
B) For the sake of our friendly discussion i will reply to you that you can not argue that it will be harder for you/me as an experienced player to sink ships. That is the point of ranking higher stats? gaining XP ? progressing the game? enjoying the maps more ? and do not worry low skilled players will possibly only have a benefit only till they reach the minimum PR to progress to the 2nd stage/level of matchmaking. 
C) Also not valid , they can not boost to unicum ratings , as soon as they surpass the 300? 400? 500? minimum level they will be matched vs you/me/someone there it would be difficult turning purple/unicum. My logic is that they will have to play / grind enough to stand vs medium level PR players and later on as medium players themselves learn to stand vs experienced players. 

[ColonelPete]

27 minutes ago, Darkeid said:

I am not trying to diss anyone, i am only suggesting.

A) not a valid argument, they will experience the game in stages which could also be argued as a more effective learning curve, as soon as they surpass 300? PR they will move up and down till they are able to face 1000? PR players
B) For the sake of our friendly discussion i will reply to you that you can not argue that it will be harder for you/me as an experienced player to sink ships. That is the point of ranking higher stats? gaining XP ? progressing the game? enjoying the maps more ? and do not worry low skilled players will possibly only have a benefit only till they reach the minimum PR to progress to the 2nd stage/level of matchmaking. 
C) Also not valid , they can not boost to unicum ratings , as soon as they surpass the 300? 400? 500? minimum level they will be matched vs you/me/someone there it would be difficult turning purple/unicum. My logic is that they will have to play / grind enough to stand vs medium level PR players and later on as medium players themselves learn to stand vs experienced players. 

A) No. Their PR will rise without learning anything while good players will get worse PR without getting worse. In the end the good, the bad and average meet up at PR 1000 and play against each other. Same as now. You may filtered out the extrem cases, but the average group gets much bigger, while the extrem groups get much smaller with trouble finding matches.

[Darkeid]

2 hours ago, GarrusBrutus said:

News flash: This is as fair as it is ever going to get.

 

Here you see the average winrates for all players. So lets assume for a second you have my winrate. In the +5-5% bracket around 65% there are about 4000 players. How on earth am i going to have a single match with so few players. First of all they have to be online, they have to use around the same tier ships, etc.etc. My waiting time for a match would be infinite.

PR works roughly the same.

It is impossible for WoWs.

I imagine youre aiming at Rainbow 6 Siege.

This is the amount of players playing R6S PC at this very moment:

Now even if you are a platinum player playing against other platinum players you have no issues finding a match.

Now WoWs:

See the problem?

That strikes me as a rather lazy attitude. A match is only won when the points tick 1000 or the timer hits 0:00.

Ill give you an example of a match I just had:

Team lemmings to one side, I die, I think "this is a certain defeat".

  Reveal hidden contents

But what happens? The enemies try to win harder and push into our blob one by one.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

That result wasnt due to MM that we won because you can check all my teammates.... They suck. The enemies? Not much better. Fairly even teams I'd say.

It is simply due to the mistakes made by the enemy team that we won.

MM is fine. The players attitude of "gotta win harder" or "This match is lost anyway so why bother" (<- sounds familiar Darkeid?) is the problem.

News flash this is what is happening in some (NOT ALL) matches:




People with 428 battles and less than 30k avg damage are in WAY over their head. No tactic or blob BS can be applied, team lost without sinking anyone. 

Moving on , you would not wait for infinite times in the queue if:

A) Without implementing a new PR Matchmaking system parameter the experienced or inexperiened players are somehow SPLIT equally in both teams.
B) With implementing the PR rule, in the late night cases or when a division of 3 players contains low PR players = when there are insufficient high PR players online to fill a 11/12 vs match , the existing high PR players can either be equally split in the 2 teams , or by using your posted table as a reference, in the extreme case when there is only one lets say 91% player looking for a match he can be matched against 2 others of the 80% percentile

Lastly, for the sake of conversation, i would like to point out that you are unjustifiably & ironically expressing yourself for no cause. As mentioned earlier i really have nothing to solve through a forum post debate, i am only humbly trying to share some constructive criticism. Feel free to blame the players / attitudes or w/e the hell you want, facts are that sometimes MM is obviously broken. Peace.

Edit: Besides the broken, one other thing that i would also like to point out is this:
 

On 4/15/2020 at 3:11 AM, AgentOrange114 said:

So basically, after you skip past all the d**k measuring, accusations of "the other guy on the internet" being wrong because they don't share the same opinion as the poster and boil it all down - we get to:

• Everyone has good & bad games (that's a given).
• An acknowledgement that the MM is not working effectively.
• There's a lot of players (and a growing number ? recently ??) who are clearly unhappy with what the MM is doing currently (be that "better than in the old days" or not - that's just personal perspective).
• WG don't appear to give a f**k about any of the above points.

 

So if there's someone from WG that would like to explain how this is "balanced" or "fun" then please let me know, i'd be very keen to understand what spreadsheet rationale backed PR spin you can offer.

If, however, you're not from WG or a mod and any of my opinion above, differs from your opinion of the game in it's current state, feel free to save us both time and don't bother replying for my sake.

Thanks.

Well said Agent Orange, i would also appreciate if there's someone from WG that would like to explain how this is "balanced" or "fun"

[GarrusBrutus]

30 minutes ago, Darkeid said:

News flash this is what is happening in some (NOT ALL) matches:

Everyone has such matches. But why should we focus on individual games? In the grand scheme of things it works properly. People tend to remember the bad games. How was your game after this one? And the next? And the one after that? All stomps I reckon?

This game suffers from the snowball effect since there is no respawn: One guys dies early and takes his flank and after that his entire team with him. So even with your proposal implemented and even with perfectly balanced teams this wouldn't change a thing. You see this happen in clanbattles that are kinda the perfect balance in regards to player skill. The team that loses a ship first loses the match in MOST games.

1 hour ago, Darkeid said:

A) Without implementing a new PR Matchmaking system parameter the experienced or inexperiened players are somehow SPLIT equally in both teams.

But I dont want to be equally divided among teams based on my PR. And neither would anyone above 50%WR because it would mean my teammates are on average worse than the enemy team.

1 hour ago, Darkeid said:

B) With implementing the PR rule, in the late night cases or when a division of 3 players contains low PR players = when there are insufficient high PR players online to fill a 11/12 vs match , the existing high PR players can either be equally split in the 2 teams , or by using your posted table as a reference, in the extreme case when there is only one lets say 91% player looking for a match he can be matched against 2 others of the 80% percentile

And that is in essence what this proposal is all about: Dividing players based on a skill metric, be it WR or PR, to get two evenly matched teams when it comes to measured skill.

Now there are multiple reasons why I am against such a system:

1) It doesnt reward my personal skill. Because as a 'reward' I'd get more difficult opponents.

2) It would make matches less interesting in the sense that always fighting players of the same skill level is dull.

3) On the long term every skill based MM kills itself because with the very metrics it uses to determine the players' skill, it tries to get them all towards the average. In the end we will all end up with 50% WR. High PR players will no longer exist because it is in their own benefit to keep it low in order to get better MM. Its a non sustainable system.

4) I use this game to relax. Clanbattles and ranked are modes when I want to compete against players of my skill, but in randoms I want to relax and want to be able to try different stuff. With such a system in place I am (according to the system) SUPPOSED to carry. Otherwise my team will certainly lose, since the other 65% guy is playing according to his PR/WR whatever. That is no relaxing for me and would kill my joy very quickly.

 

[Excavatus]

9 hours ago, Darkeid said:

facts are that sometimes MM is obviously broken

The point is, it is not :) 

MM does not care about the player, the ship, the consumables, the modules, anything other than the ship tier and ship type. 

MM is not broken, it is working perfectly as it is designed. 

 

People just don't like it and wants it to be changed. 

That does not mean it is broken in any dictionary. 

 

---

 

This part is not directed towards anyone! 

 

and I really wonder, 

Why %95 of the time, it is the average or bad players asking for an MM change? 

MM is not the cause of your problems in the game. 

You are not losing more than you win because of the MM. 

You are not losing because "MM always put bad people in your team" 

we have a clan member with 20K+ battles with 60+% WR, 

do you really believe, he is getting better teammates %60 of the time, for more than 20.000 battles??? 

 

Nothing external can make you improve in this game as an individual. 

you cannot get better, you should get "good" first.. before being better. 

and the first step is, accepting that.. because If you are not good, you are a bad player... at best, an average one. 

 

[djole7]

The last week i keep getting this kinda of teams,it doesn't matter what i try or not.

It looks like a joke, as well very enoying to enjoy your game.

Is this normal staff cause for me kinda weird the hall situation

[Darkeid]

It is inconceivable to claim that nothing is broken when you get matches like these...





If needed we can share the imbalanced  matchups daily should more proof will be required.

 Furthermore, when some players / clients complain that something is wrong or could be improved, offer their ideas and your only reply is that nothing is wrong and then proceed with irony? with these matchups you still claim that the reason this MM happens is that some players are bad at this game ? That does not make sense, of course there are various tiers of player skill in every game, its just that this game is lacking in appropriately matching them up. Personally, i find you ethically unfit to moderate a .txt file....  Shame on you.

[DFens_666]

9 minutes ago, Darkeid said:

 Furthermore, when some players / clients complain that something is wrong or could be improved, offer their ideas and your only reply is that nothing is wrong and then proceed with irony? with these matchups you still claim that the reason this MM happens is that some players are bad at this game ? That does not make sense, of course there are various tiers of player skill in every game, its just that this game is lacking in appropriately matching them up. Personally, i find you ethically unfit to moderate a .txt file....  Shame on you.

 

You want that

- The worse i play, the better my teammates become

- Vice versa, the better i play, the worse teammates i get.

 

Why would i want to improve, since i would start losing more often.

How would bad players improve, when they get carried by good players time and time again, so they dont actually have time to learn. They would eventually get worse teammates, but since they havent learned anything because they never had a chance, would fall back to having a bad WR.

 

You want to artificially improve bad players by giving them a better WR, and give good players a lower WR by matching them with potatoes to carry 24/7.

[Darkeid]

Please read through the last pages before blurting out. If a PR parameter is implemented successfully the outcome would be: 

- The worse you play , the worse your teammates and opponents become
- Vice versa , the better you play , the more experienced teammates you get
 

Lets not throw the overall point out of the picture, there is something not going 100% right with the matchmaking as it is. People with no experience and beginner skills are getting tossed in the same team and are set against a lot better stats wise players. Now , from this, how did you get the idea that suggesting an even split in the battle roster in experienced/inexperienced players concludes to: " You want to artificially improve bad players by giving them a better WR, and give good players a lower WR by matching them with potatoes to carry 24/7. " ? ? ? ? ? ?

[GarrusBrutus]

Nice cherrypicking again, as have many before you, to prove the same point. @darkei24

You have an almost 60% solo winrate in the last 21 days. Why are you even complaining?

13 minutes ago, Darkeid said:

People with no experience and beginner skills are getting tossed in the same team and are set against a lot better stats wise players.

Belief what you want. I dont seem to be able to change your opinion even one inch ragardless of what I say. This mismatch concerning skill does not happen every game. But sure, keep uploading these MM screens. Randoms gonna random.

 

19 minutes ago, Darkeid said:

Now , from this, how did you get the idea that suggesting an even split in the battle roster in experienced/inexperienced players concludes to: " You want to artificially improve bad players by giving them a better WR, and give good players a lower WR by matching them with potatoes to carry 24/7. "

An even split means weighting players and dividing them across two teams. So if youre good you are weighted as a heavy weight. This means youre bound to have more leightweight teammates compared to when you are a lightweight yourself. So when you are bad at the game your winrate will get artificially improved by handing you a bunch of heavyweight teammates to....balance out the teams. Ultimately leading to everyone having a 50% wr and noone trying to get better at the game because it would only give them worse teams. How cant you understand this?

[Darkeid]

This match took place 5min ago:

 

 

P.S. What percentages winrates should a player have in order for you to listen to him / them ? It looks like both the valiant defenders of the broken and the moderator of this forum are instructed to only listen to above average PR players ?

[ColonelPete]

21 minutes ago, Darkeid said:

P.S. What percentages winrates should a player have in order for you to listen to him / them ? It looks like both the valiant defenders of the broken and the moderator of this forum are instructed to only listen to above average PR players ?

Does not depend on winrate, but on argument.

[Darkeid]

1 hour ago, GarrusBrutus said:

Nice cherrypicking again, as have many before you, to prove the same point. @darkei24

You have an almost 60% solo winrate in the last 21 days. Why are you even complaining?

Belief what you want. I dont seem to be able to change your opinion even one inch ragardless of what I say. This mismatch concerning skill does not happen every game. But sure, keep uploading these MM screens. Randoms gonna random.

 

An even split means weighting players and dividing them across two teams. So if youre good you are weighted as a heavy weight. This means youre bound to have more leightweight teammates compared to when you are a lightweight yourself. So when you are bad at the game your winrate will get artificially improved by handing you a bunch of heavyweight teammates to....balance out the teams. Ultimately leading to everyone having a 50% wr and noone trying to get better at the game because it would only give them worse teams. How cant you understand this?

What is your case man, calling other cherrypickers ? i am asking a question and offering a suggestion. I present my info with facts and have you whining non stop. Dont bother replying for my case , you are biased and ironic. Plus you are not making sense , "Ultimately leading to everyone having a 50% wr" , "noone trying to get better at the game because it would only give them worse teams" you can not know - predict this. The game will be more fun if the teams are equal.

[Darkeid]

28 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Does not depend on winrate, but on argument.

Consider this as an argument , this is happening 2 out of 4 matches in a row (literally in game)

 

[deadmeat69]

5 Games today and in every one I was the lowest tier by +2, I have been playing for some time and have over 224 ships and I am thinking about jacking in this game as it costs to much and nothing changes, apart from you take more money off the players.

[Excavatus]

2 hours ago, Darkeid said:

It is inconceivable to claim that nothing is broken when you get matches like these..

Lets call MM is an engine... 

To call an engine to be broken, It must not do its job that it was designed for. 

 

MM doing its job which it was designed for Perfectly. 

 

The "Proof" you posted, only shows, you don't like how it is doing its job..

and that is faaaar from being broken :) 

 

It is just, you don't like it :) 

[ForlornSailor]

52 minutes ago, Darkeid said:

P.S. What percentages winrates should a player have in order for you to listen to him / them ? It looks like both the valiant defenders of the broken and the moderator of this forum are instructed to only listen to above average PR players ? 

 

Thats not the point. The thing is, that its usualy players with below average performance, that are thinking, Matchmaking needs to be rigged so that they win more.

 

Anyway. You are not really answering any arguments, just claiming, everything is "invalid". its not btw and I dotn care to explain you once again. You may chose to ignore the reality but dont expect the apple to fall upwards just because you think, Newton was wrong.

 

2 minutes ago, Darkeid said:

Consider this as an argument , this is happening 2 out of 4 matches in a row (literally in game)

 

So? You want to put the most rotten potatos together with the best players, to "balance" the matchmaking. So the end result is, people with a 4000 PR super unicum rating, way above 100.000 average damage and 2,x avergae kills shall have a 50 % WR, carrying like CRAZY all the time, while having "ImCaptainSPESHUUUULLLLL" on his team EVERY FREAKING ROUND with his suicide YOLO Minotaur, 4 k avg damage and.. .also 50 % WR because he is beeing dragged, kicked and carried like hard to that winrate. NOBODY HERE WANTS THIS - get it now? If people suck, they deserve to lose. And if people make concinderalbe efford to win, they deserve to win. And if someone has a 100% WR after 25.000 games because he is so awesome, im gonna applaud him and not sit in a dark corner, turning blue of beeing envy shouting THROW SOME STONES IN HIS WAY !!! GIVE HIM ALL THE UESLESS PLAYERS YOU AN GRAB ON HIS SIDE !!! MAKE HIM LOOOOOOOOOOOOOSE.

 

end of story. for god's sake.

[Taliesn]

38 minutes ago, Darkeid said:

What is your case man, calling other cherrypickers ? i am asking a question and offering a suggestion. I present my info with facts and have you whining non stop. Dont bother replying for my case , you are biased and ironic. Plus you are not making sense , "Ultimately leading to everyone having a 50% wr" , "noone trying to get better at the game because it would only give them worse teams" you can not know - predict this. The game will be more fun if the teams are equal.

 

10 minutes ago, Darkeid said:

Consider this as an argument , this is happening 2 out of 4 matches in a row (literally in game)

 

 

Are the other 2 out of 4 favouring the green team? Are they balanced?

 

Do this for the next 100 games in a row, and record the victories/defeats, not only the team composition.

And then come back to us and you'll have something to show for the 2 out 4 games in a row comment.

 

Until then, and as @GarrusBrutus has said, you are just cherrypicking.

[ColonelPete]

8 minutes ago, Darkeid said:

Consider this as an argument , this is happening 2 out of 4 matches in a row (literally in game)

 

That is no argument, that is an anecdote.

And 50% WR facing 54% WR is not best scenario, but still gives you a decent chance to win. Just do not give up from the start. And that is the main problem with MMM and the increasing number of people using it.

 

Too many people think binary. Our WR is higher --> our team wins, must show effort to get good results. Our WR is lower --> our team loses anyway, the shorter this battle, the better.

The more people in the match think that way, the more onesided the battle will become.

[Merlin851526]

2 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

Lets call MM is an engine... 

To call an engine to be broken, It must not do its job that it was designed for. 

 

MM doing its job which it was designed for Perfectly. 

 

The "Proof" you posted, only shows, you don't like how it is doing its job..

and that is faaaar from being broken :) 

 

It is just, you don't like it :) 

Yeah it's doing its job so well that it has been tweaked and changed several times over the years. You don't like the counter view, I get it, we all do I'm sure. But to suggest that something isn't wrong currently with MM is in my humble opinion absurd, and frankly a little insulting. 

[Darkeid]

 

4 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

Lets call MM is an engine... 

To call an engine to be broken, It must not do its job that it was designed for. 

 

MM doing its job which it was designed for Perfectly. 

 

The "Proof" you posted, only shows, you don't like how it is doing its job..

and that is faaaar from being broken :) 

 

It is just, you don't like it :) 

Forum user: The system is not working properly when matching players and games are one sided, the teams are unequal, here is the data supporting this
Forum moderator: The system is matching players. Its just that you dont like it.
 

You should really 

5 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

Thats not the point. The thing is, that its usualy players with below average performance, that are thinking, Matchmaking needs to be rigged so that they win more.

 

Anyway. You are not really answering any arguments, just claiming, everything is "invalid". its not btw and I dotn care to explain you once again. You may chose to ignore the reality but dont expect the apple to fall upwards just because you think, Newton was wrong.

 

 

So? You want to put the most rotten potatos together with the best players, to "balance" the matchmaking. So the end result is, people with a 4000 PR super unicum rating, way above 100.000 average damage and 2,x avergae kills shall have a 50 % WR, carrying like CRAZY all the time, while having "ImCaptainSPESHUUUULLLLL" on his team EVERY FREAKING ROUND with his suicide YOLO Minotaur, 4 k avg damage and.. .also 50 % WR because he is beeing dragged, kicked and carried like hard to that winrate. NOBODY HERE WANTS THIS - get it now? If people suck, they deserve to lose. And if people make concinderalbe efford to win, they deserve to win. And if someone has a 100% WR after 25.000 games because he is so awesome, im gonna applaud him and not sit in a dark corner, turning blue of beeing envy shouting THROW SOME STONES IN HIS WAY !!! GIVE HIM ALL THE UESLESS PLAYERS YOU AN GRAB ON HIS SIDE !!! MAKE HIM LOOOOOOOOOOOOOSE.

 

end of story. for god's sake.

You havent read any or not paid attention to anything mentioned afore. I will answer your argument only cause you decided to take part like a fart popping out. The most rotten potatos will be playing with the most rotten potatos. The end result is that a 4000 PR player hopefully will be playing with players in the 2k - 4k vincinity. Also, if you find it in your personality, try to behave kindly, it doesnt cost you and gives the conversation some meaning. 

[Excavatus]

1 minute ago, Merlin851526 said:

But to suggest that something isn't wrong currently with MM is in my humble opinion absurd, and frankly a little insulting. 

you get me wrong, 

I'm saying, MM working as intended.. 

and it is not broken.. 

 

Saying "I don't like how the MM works" or "IMO MM's operation principals are WRONG" are completely different.. 

then saying "MM is broken" 

 

Because If you don't like how the MM works, that is your personal idea, and I can say "yeah me too" or "I don't think so" and no argument there is after that. 

For me, MM has its own problems, I would tweak it in some other ways.. But in general I'm not complaining. and thats my own personal opinion. 

 

The problem here on this forum in general, 

People present their "OWN OPINIONS" as cold hard facts.. then they attack others who are against it :) 

facts do not get discussed, but opinions are.. 

thats all I'm saying.. 

 

[Excavatus]

4 minutes ago, Darkeid said:

Forum user: The system is not working properly

You still don't get it :) 
System is working PROPERLY, 

because it is designed to work this way :) 

 

Not liking how a system work, does not mean the system is not working properly.. 

oh and one more point, 

 

If we ( moderators ) are not writing in RED we are not writing as a MODERATOR! 

In the end, we were active players and forum users before and will be after... the moderation duties... 

[ForlornSailor]

6 minutes ago, Darkeid said:

You should really

 

Maybe you should actually take your own advice?

same as here:

 

7 minutes ago, Darkeid said:

Also, if you find it in your personality, try to behave kindly, it doesnt cost you and gives the conversation some meaning. 

 

You think, you are living up to your own standards? Ignoring everything that alteast 4 different people explained to you? And your entire last post is a simple chain of personal attacks. Yes, im actually pretty sure, you fail on your own standards.

 

And PS: to the small part in your post, that can be read as beeing on-topic: it doesnt matter. result is the same.

 

But I have something else for you: you dont like matchmaking because its putting people in the same game, that do not belong together (in your opinion only, just to make it clear). Here is easy solution: Take 23 people, that match your critiria and standards on beeing "equal on skill" and go to a training room. you can even distribute them yourself.

Actually do it and actually proof to us, that the games you create there, are 20 min, back and forth, down to the wire, totaly balanced games where everyone reaches 50 % WR no matter how you mix the players.