Matchmaker Discussion Thread & MM Balance

[CptBarney]

3 minutes ago, Bear__Necessities said:

Whats wrong with actually being given a challenge. I don't get it. Why do so many players want easy mode all the time. If players don't like MM and a challenge. Play Co-op. I'd rather throw my T7 around in a T9 game, have a challenge and be rewarded with better credits and exp rather than have a constant baby buffer of only +1 in place. 

Play world of tanks if you want a challenge (no gold ammo) or dark souls. Although playing cv isn't exactly challenge though half the time is it now?

I'd rather have a balanced game, but i guess no one cares about that so may as well flood the game with broken ships.

 

Oh well.

[Bear__Necessities]

14 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

Play world of tanks if you want a challenge (no gold ammo) or dark souls. Although playing cv isn't exactly challenge though half the time is it now?

I'd rather have a balanced game, but i guess no one cares about that so may as well flood the game with broken ships.

 

Oh well.

I want to play this game with a challenge. Playing CV does offer challenges. Same as when I play cruisers and DD's. Which I still play a lot. 

[Floofz]

And once again we have an evening of the very random matchmaking that people call it. These are my games tonight. And the reason why I didnt do well in my Wichita game is because the Friesland that I got on my flank refused to do ANYTHING despite the team yelling at him. So I I was blind and eventually got roflstomped.

 

6 defeats and ONE win, despite how much you try to carry there just isnt winning is there when WG says no. So yea, WR is a meaningfull stat and says a lot about a player 

 

[Sambor0]

our DD's instead cap centre went on the side let enemy DD's do  the job.

[GarrusBrutus]

1 hour ago, Floofz said:

6 defeats and ONE win, despite how much you try to carry there just isnt winning is there when WG says no. So yea, WR is a meaningfull stat and says a lot about a player 

Funny how you only come here when the odds don't seem to be in your favor.

You had a perfectly normal winrate for your level of play when you look at more than just one session, yet you only highlight the last session aka the part that underlines your opinion. 

I believe there is terminology for that. Ah, yes. It's called cherry picking. 

[AgentOrange114]

So basically, after you skip past all the d**k measuring, accusations of "the other guy on the internet" being wrong because they don't share the same opinion as the poster and boil it all down - we get to:

• Everyone has good & bad games (that's a given).
• An acknowledgement that the MM is not working effectively.
• There's a lot of players (and a growing number ? recently ??) who are clearly unhappy with what the MM is doing currently (be that "better than in the old days" or not - that's just personal perspective).
• WG don't appear to give a f**k about any of the above points.

Personally I enjoy a bit of a challenge in games, there's no fun steam rolling for either side, but to lay my examples down (below) for why I bothered entering this moderately necro post (and I hope the mods/WG might actually bother to read this one day once they figure out their numbers are dwindling):

• WG release a new DD branch.
• Play the new branch, power through the first five tiers as it's simple, small xp jumps.
• Starting at tier V get largely 60-70% of the battles up-tiered (both solo and grouped - same tier). Ok that's annoying but hey ho.
• Start in tier VI, get largely 70% of the battles up-tiered (both solo and grouped - same tier). That's annoying, what's going wrong here ?
• Start tier VII, every, single, game played was up tiered to tier IX games (both solo and grouped - same tier) making the entire playtime utterly impossible to do anything but turn up, make very little contribution before being wiped out. Not fun, not engaging and not "a challenge", it's just a waist of time. Time that could be spent playing other games where the balance is better. Which is what I chose to do, get one or two games in, get up tiered again, then leave.
• Now finally in a tier VIII and guess what, every game played in it, up-tiered to majority tier X games (both solo and grouped - same tier).

So if there's someone from WG that would like to explain how this is "balanced" or "fun" then please let me know, i'd be very keen to understand what spreadsheet rationale backed PR spin you can offer.

If, however, you're not from WG or a mod and any of my opinion above, differs from your opinion of the game in it's current state, feel free to save us both time and don't bother replying for my sake.

Thanks.

[Merlin851526]

8 hours ago, AgentOrange114 said:

So basically, after you skip past all the d**k measuring, accusations of "the other guy on the internet" being wrong because they don't share the same opinion as the poster and boil it all down - we get to:

• Everyone has good & bad games (that's a given).
• An acknowledgement that the MM is not working effectively.
• There's a lot of players (and a growing number ? recently ??) who are clearly unhappy with what the MM is doing currently (be that "better than in the old days" or not - that's just personal perspective).
• WG don't appear to give a f**k about any of the above points.

Personally I enjoy a bit of a challenge in games, there's no fun steam rolling for either side, but to lay my examples down (below) for why I bothered entering this moderately necro post (and I hope the mods/WG might actually bother to read this one day once they figure out their numbers are dwindling):

• WG release a new DD branch.
• Play the new branch, power through the first five tiers as it's simple, small xp jumps.
• Starting at tier V get largely 60-70% of the battles up-tiered (both solo and grouped - same tier). Ok that's annoying but hey ho.
• Start in tier VI, get largely 70% of the battles up-tiered (both solo and grouped - same tier). That's annoying, what's going wrong here ?
• Start tier VII, every, single, game played was up tiered to tier IX games (both solo and grouped - same tier) making the entire playtime utterly impossible to do anything but turn up, make very little contribution before being wiped out. Not fun, not engaging and not "a challenge", it's just a waist of time. Time that could be spent playing other games where the balance is better. Which is what I chose to do, get one or two games in, get up tiered again, then leave.
• Now finally in a tier VIII and guess what, every game played in it, up-tiered to majority tier X games (both solo and grouped - same tier).

So if there's someone from WG that would like to explain how this is "balanced" or "fun" then please let me know, i'd be very keen to understand what spreadsheet rationale backed PR spin you can offer.

If, however, you're not from WG or a mod and any of my opinion above, differs from your opinion of the game in it's current state, feel free to save us both time and don't bother replying for my sake.

Thanks.

Well said, well said

[ForlornSailor]

9 hours ago, AgentOrange114 said:

• Start tier VII, every, single, game played was up tiered to tier IX games (both solo and grouped - same tier) making the entire playtime utterly impossible to do anything but turn up, make very little contribution before being wiped out. Not fun, not engaging and not "a challenge", it's just a waist of time. Time that could be spent playing other games where the balance is better. Which is what I chose to do, get one or two games in, get up tiered again, then leave.
• Now finally in a tier VIII and guess what, every game played in it, up-tiered to majority tier X games (both solo and grouped - same tier).

Personal problem. T8 can carry T10 and often enough we do.

 

 

9 hours ago, AgentOrange114 said:

So if there's someone from WG that would like to explain how this is "balanced" or "fun" then please let me know, i'd be very keen to understand what spreadsheet rationale backed PR spin you can offer.

 

Do you really need someone from WG to explain basic mathematics to you? Ok then lets see if you can do it yourself. Here is the data of:

- individual ships played on EU server last week http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20200411/eu_week/average_ship.html

- ships played grouped after low / high tiers http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20200411/eu_week/average_class.html

Now ill take one example:

Lets see if you understand. Ill hint even more: when you play a Jervis you are one of 2993 Jervis in that week. Now the matchmaker is looking for ships in the tiers around you. There are:

T5 : 1783

T6 : 3013

_________

T8 : 7155

T9 : 6175

Nah, do you understand now, why you see more high tier ships then low tier ships???

[Floofz]

13 hours ago, GarrusBrutus said:

Funny how you only come here when the odds don't seem to be in your favor.

You had a perfectly normal winrate for your level of play when you look at more than just one session, yet you only highlight the last session aka the part that underlines your opinion. 

I believe there is terminology for that. Ah, yes. It's called cherry picking. 

 

Uhm why would I complain when it works?

Honest question, do you think my session yesterday was fine and acceptable? Look at my winrate the last month, its several % units below my average even thou my PR is much higher than my average. My WR has steadely gone down more and more over the past 2 years while every other stat is improving drastictly. How do you explain that?

[ColonelPete]

2 hours ago, Floofz said:

 

Uhm why would I complain when it works?

Honest question, do you think my session yesterday was fine and acceptable? Look at my winrate the last month, its several % units below my average even thou my PR is much higher than my average. My WR has steadely gone down more and more over the past 2 years while every other stat is improving drastictly. How do you explain that?

And THAT is exactly the problem. Only positiv results are ok. Negative results are not ok, one is supposed to improve all the time. If that does not happen, WG did something wrong or is even manipulating the results.

 

Yes, everyone has bad days, had them too. Even finished a session with 0%. But when the game does not go my way, I stop, because I know that I play worse when frustrated. Other people continue to play, even after they were advised that this is a bad idea, and are surprised when they rack up many losses.

You WR the last three weeks fits your overall WR, even if it was slightly lower. That is normal. Had this for hundreds of games. It happens. I anlayzed what I did different and stopped that.

Your WR the last year is stable. That you perform worse than two years ago is either the result of very lucky results in the beginning or that this is your second account.

[GarrusBrutus]

1 hour ago, Floofz said:

Uhm why would I complain when it works?

Exactly. You complain when it doesnt. When you win its down to your own skill, yet when you lose it is because of external factors. Like Pete said we all experience win streaks and losing streaks. The question is how you deal with them.

1 hour ago, Floofz said:

How do you explain that?

It is mainly down to your own mindset. You seem to be really focused on your winrate since you keep bringing it up. What is it exactly that you are aiming for regarding that statistic? You want to get it to a certain level? Or do you hate to see it drop because it feels like all your hard work becomes undone?

In my own experience: The more i focussed on my winrate the less i enjoyed the game and the more it felt like a chore instead of a game.

Besides: PR, avg dmg and avg xp are all statistics you can farm.

Examplary are the "unicum" conqeks with 100k average damage and a 30% winrate.

And last but not least: You play so irregularly and so few games per month, that the fluctuation in winrate can be huge and leave you feel discouraged. I'm not saying you should play more, I'm just saying you should accept the fact that your monthly results may fluctuate to a certain extend because of the small sample size.

[tsounts]

Kept getting horrid teams in a row this afternoon to the point it became unbearable.  Players with sub 100 battles in their accounts that are full of premium ships up to tier 9 and with winrates of sub 40%....Again and again..... This is not fun to say the least.

[Floofz]

4 hours ago, GarrusBrutus said:

Exactly. You complain when it doesnt. When you win its down to your own skill, yet when you lose it is because of external factors. Like Pete said we all experience win streaks and losing streaks. The question is how you deal with them.

It is mainly down to your own mindset. You seem to be really focused on your winrate since you keep bringing it up. What is it exactly that you are aiming for regarding that statistic? You want to get it to a certain level? Or do you hate to see it drop because it feels like all your hard work becomes undone?

In my own experience: The more i focussed on my winrate the less i enjoyed the game and the more it felt like a chore instead of a game.

Besides: PR, avg dmg and avg xp are all statistics you can farm.

Examplary are the "unicum" conqeks with 100k average damage and a 30% winrate.

And last but not least: You play so irregularly and so few games per month, that the fluctuation in winrate can be huge and leave you feel discouraged. I'm not saying you should play more, I'm just saying you should accept the fact that your monthly results may fluctuate to a certain extend because of the small sample size.

 

The problem is that in my almost 4000 random battles Ive never had a day where Ive played 10+ games with an 80%+ WR, but I have atleast a few days a month like that in the opposite direction.

I also dont complain that I lose when I play badly. Ive had 40% WR previously during the week and didnt complain, because I played badly. The problem is when you play very good but still keep losing no matter what you do, like yesterday. So tell me, if this is random, why can I not win like I lose?

The other issue I have with this and its actualy bothering me quiet alot is that streamers like Flamu, Flambass, Notser etc NEVER, like EVER have days with 10-20% WR. The longest losing streak Ive ever seen any of them have is 3 in a row. Now Im not going to try and tell you that Im as good as them at the game, especially not Flamu. But Flambass isnt good enough to carry the teams I had yesterday, but yet it doesnt happen to him? Or any of the others, why?

 

But I can tell you why this bothers me so much and always have. Because I used to have a 58%+ WR. For the longest time I had the highest WR in my clan and I was respected and proud of it. And this wasnt due to me playing more lower tiers, no I had 2-3 tier 10s back then, and actualy my first few tier 10s I have have a significantly higher WR than my newer T10s, with two exceptions

And even so, I still dont play a whole lot of T10, I play mostly T6-T9 because I find it more enjoyable. Yet my WR is steadely dropping, its now almost below 56% WR. And I do not for the life of me understand how I can lose more when Im clearly a MUCH better player than I used to be. I do not buy the whole argument with "you play more T10s now" because I dont. And even so almost all my T10 ships have very high PR and average damage, all my T10 stats are very good except for WR, so its not that I play badly.

It feels discouraging and pointless to play a game where you only get worse. You dont improve because your teams wont let you. That is why I dont play as much anymore, because every time I click "battle" my pulse raises, I get nervous and anxious. Why? Because Im afraid itll end up like yesterday and Im afraid Ill get angry and ruin my mood.

So why dont I quit playing? Because I still love the game, I think the game is amazingly good and fun, I love collecting ships, theorycracting and trying new things. I love playing CB with my clan, I love following streamers and youtubers and learn about new stuff. And I love sailing around in historical and beautifully modelled ships.

 

Unfortunately I seriously doubt I am the only one to feel like this, infact I think a large part of the playerbase are feeling this more and more. Atleast those of us that takes the game seriously. The difference between me and them is 1. I had a different start than them and 2. They just quit without saying anything.

 

 

Lastly I want to explain what I ment with me having a different start.

This is my first and to be honest only active account. However Ive never been a n00b unlike most players. I had watched countless hours of youtube and streams about world of warships before I started playing it. I had vast knowledge about ammo choices, armor, ships, maps and tactics way before I started playing it myself. Therefor I had a very high WR even from the get go. Infact my current WR is the lowest its ever been.

 

 

[ColonelPete]

8 minutes ago, Floofz said:

 

The problem is that in my almost 4000 random battles Ive never had a day where Ive played 10+ games with an 80%+ WR, but I have atleast a few days a month like that in the opposite direction.

...

Because it is easier to lose concentration than to keep it for hours.

[Floofz]

Just now, ColonelPete said:

Because it is easier to lose concentration than to keep it for hours.

 

In theory atlhou factualy not the case, atleast not for me. I had my absolute best game yesterday in my last game. Infact regardless of my terrible teams I had very good games yesterday, I did a lot of damage, got many kills per game and contributed with caps and defends as you can clearly see in the results.

Also nevermind your personal input. If you can end up in such terrible teams that there simply is no carrying for that many games in a row, it should be equally statisticly possible to end up with so good teams just as many times that youll win no matter your own input. THIS doesnt happen, and never has. And this is what I find strange. Obviously I get steamroll wins occasionally, but Im in the losing team much more often.

[ColonelPete]

1 minute ago, Floofz said:

 

In theory atlhou factualy not the case, atleast not for me. I had my absolute best game yesterday in my last game. Infact regardless of my terrible teams I had very good games yesterday, I did a lot of damage, got many kills per game and contributed with caps and defends as you can clearly see in the results.

Also nevermind your personal input. If you can end up in such terrible teams that there simply is no carrying for that many games in a row, it should be equally statisticly possible to end up with so good teams just as many times that youll win no matter your own input. THIS doesnt happen, and never has. And this is what I find strange. Obviously I get steamroll wins occasionally, but Im in the losing team much more often.

Being mentally exhausted does not mean you cannot have good games. It just makes it more unlikely.

Therefore performing well over a long time is harder than performing badly over a long time. Meaning it is harder to keep long good streaks. You just tend to mess it up. Being on long bad streak is just easier.

[DFens_666]

59 minutes ago, Floofz said:

The other issue I have with this and its actualy bothering me quiet alot is that streamers like Flamu, Flambass, Notser etc NEVER, like EVER have days with 10-20% WR. The longest losing streak Ive ever seen any of them have is 3 in a row. Now Im not going to try and tell you that Im as good as them at the game, especially not Flamu. But Flambass isnt good enough to carry the teams I had yesterday, but yet it doesnt happen to him? Or any of the others, why? 

 

Because they have tons of fanboys clicking in with them at the same time. They do nothing but try to shoot/kill the streamer, disregarding everything else they do, mostly dying to the rest of their team.

This even happened to Panzerknacker (if you know him). We had him on the enemy team once, and we had some potatoes clicking him, they landed on our team (3x division). They even announced they wanna kill the streamer... naturally, they got nothing done and died uselesly.

[Taliesn]

8 hours ago, Floofz said:

 

Uhm why would I complain when it works?

Honest question, do you think my session yesterday was fine and acceptable? Look at my winrate the last month, its several % units below my average even thou my PR is much higher than my average. My WR has steadely gone down more and more over the past 2 years while every other stat is improving drastictly. How do you explain that?

 

 

Has a 55% WR in the last 3 weeks, expects to win one battle and lose the second, win the next, lose the forth, and the odd 5% to be evenly distributed in between those matches.

 

And unless you were very unlucky the previous week, your WR actually IMPROVED in the last month.

 

The amount of statistically challenged people around here never ceases to amaze me.

[Floofz]

30 minutes ago, Taliesn said:

 

 

Has a 55% WR in the last 3 weeks, expects to win one battle and lose the second, win the next, lose the forth, and the odd 5% to be evenly distributed in between those matches.

 

And unless you were very unlucky the previous week, your WR actually IMPROVED in the last month.

 

The amount of statistically challenged people around here never ceases to amaze me.

 

The facepalm is the one that goes into a thread, read 10% of one posts and immidately post a dumb gif and thinks he knows what the discussion is about.

[Taliesn]

37 minutes ago, Floofz said:

 

The facepalm is the one that goes into a thread, read 10% of one posts and immidately post a dumb gif and thinks he knows what the discussion is about.

 

Sure. You can't read your own stats, but I'm the one at fault here.

 

And I thought the prize for Post of the Day was going to go to either the tds or the why doesn't WG notify me when prices change in the online shop threads. Beyond parody, but please do carry on.

[GarrusBrutus]

Honestly Floofz, I feel bad for you. I really do. Wish I could "let" you win more but I can not.

Just want to highlight one line you said:

2 hours ago, Floofz said:

That is why I dont play as much anymore, because every time I click "battle" my pulse raises, I get nervous and anxious. Why? Because Im afraid itll end up like yesterday and Im afraid Ill get angry and ruin my mood.

Your pulse raises when you click battle because you have build up so much expectation, fear and hope at the same time about the result of the game. That creates unnecessary pressure on your performance in said match.

Mate, when I was starting out this game I was really average. At some point I started to watch tutorials, Flamu, yada yada yada, and started to significantly improve. But because of the improvement I never wanted to be worse than I was the week before. So each time I had a losing streak I would rage about it. I knew the maps, I knew the tactics, I knew all the ship statistics and STILL I LOST. Hoooooooooooooow?!?!?!

But once I realised that those losing streaks were litteraly out of my control, I raged a lot less and my performance improved even more.

 

Nowadays I feel kinda indifferent about my match results as long as I am able to have a decent personal game. Funny thing tho: Because of my indifference about the result I play really relaxed and my solo winrate has never been higher before.

So one last piece of advice that worked for me and hopefully will one day work for you, is: Stop giving a F.

 

[Floofz]

20 hours ago, GarrusBrutus said:

Honestly Floofz, I feel bad for you. I really do. Wish I could "let" you win more but I can not.

Just want to highlight one line you said:

Your pulse raises when you click battle because you have build up so much expectation, fear and hope at the same time about the result of the game. That creates unnecessary pressure on your performance in said match.

Mate, when I was starting out this game I was really average. At some point I started to watch tutorials, Flamu, yada yada yada, and started to significantly improve. But because of the improvement I never wanted to be worse than I was the week before. So each time I had a losing streak I would rage about it. I knew the maps, I knew the tactics, I knew all the ship statistics and STILL I LOST. Hoooooooooooooow?!?!?!

But once I realised that those losing streaks were litteraly out of my control, I raged a lot less and my performance improved even more.

 

Nowadays I feel kinda indifferent about my match results as long as I am able to have a decent personal game. Funny thing tho: Because of my indifference about the result I play really relaxed and my solo winrate has never been higher before.

So one last piece of advice that worked for me and hopefully will one day work for you, is: Stop giving a F.

 

 

Yea I know unfortunately its happend for such a long time that its very difficult to change my viewpoint in the game. I do care less thou than I used to. So I do play more and its probably why I never really lost my temper during my last losingstreak, that and the fact that I actualy did well. I wouldve probably continued playing if I didnt have to go to bed.

But once again I worry more about the people who just quit instead of coming here, which I fear is a lot of people. This game is simply too frustrating, more so than it needs to be.

[Skinkmacka_SWE]

Would it be good to have some kind of skill MM also for Random battles? This is really boring and I think is happening more often nowadays.

I mean is this fun even for the winning team to be this superior? Wargaming asked in a survey why I play more seldom and this is why. And by playing more seldom I am not as skilled of course but shouldn't WOWS be for all categories of players?

 

 

 

 

 

[DFens_666]

48 minutes ago, Skinkmacka_SWE said:

but shouldn't WOWS be for all categories of players?

 

Its called sticking to lowertiers. If people, who are not that good, would play low-midtiers, where they can perform better, we would have less issues than we have now in hightiers.

[pissBoiler]

On 4/15/2020 at 2:11 AM, AgentOrange114 said:

So basically, after you skip past all the d**k measuring, accusations of "the other guy on the internet" being wrong because they don't share the same opinion as the poster and boil it all down - we get to:

• Everyone has good & bad games (that's a given).
• An acknowledgement that the MM is not working effectively.
• There's a lot of players (and a growing number ? recently ??) who are clearly unhappy with what the MM is doing currently (be that "better than in the old days" or not - that's just personal perspective).
• WG don't appear to give a f**k about any of the above points.

Personally I enjoy a bit of a challenge in games, there's no fun steam rolling for either side, but to lay my examples down (below) for why I bothered entering this moderately necro post (and I hope the mods/WG might actually bother to read this one day once they figure out their numbers are dwindling):

• WG release a new DD branch.
• Play the new branch, power through the first five tiers as it's simple, small xp jumps.
• Starting at tier V get largely 60-70% of the battles up-tiered (both solo and grouped - same tier). Ok that's annoying but hey ho.
• Start in tier VI, get largely 70% of the battles up-tiered (both solo and grouped - same tier). That's annoying, what's going wrong here ?
• Start tier VII, every, single, game played was up tiered to tier IX games (both solo and grouped - same tier) making the entire playtime utterly impossible to do anything but turn up, make very little contribution before being wiped out. Not fun, not engaging and not "a challenge", it's just a waist of time. Time that could be spent playing other games where the balance is better. Which is what I chose to do, get one or two games in, get up tiered again, then leave.
• Now finally in a tier VIII and guess what, every game played in it, up-tiered to majority tier X games (both solo and grouped - same tier).

So if there's someone from WG that would like to explain how this is "balanced" or "fun" then please let me know, i'd be very keen to understand what spreadsheet rationale backed PR spin you can offer.

If, however, you're not from WG or a mod and any of my opinion above, differs from your opinion of the game in it's current state, feel free to save us both time and don't bother replying for my sake.

Thanks.

 

I'm literally writing this in a Bismarck random game. Oppo team? 3x Des Moines, 1 x Smolensk, 2 x Shimikaze, a.o. 

 

Think the game took about 5,5 minutes.