Matchmaker Discussion Thread & MM Balance

[Mrs_Ragdoll]

I have a feeling I get uptiered way too much when I play in a Division instead of playing Solo. Everytime I Div up with clan members I get +2 tier MM about 80% of the time. When playing in a cruiser it's very very annoying and often painfull. Especially BBs that are 2 tiers higher deal too much damage even when they only hit the tail of your ship. I'm enjoying WOWS less and less lately. Every time I Div up we get awful MM and teams. Is WG ever going to realise that -2/+2 tiers is just no fun. And they would have more players and keep more new players playing the game if it was only -1/+1. I have a lot of players in my recruiting station but none of them play anymore, all of them quitted the game within 2 to 4 weeks max.

[ColonelPete]

5 hours ago, Mrs_Ragdoll said:

I have a feeling I get uptiered way too much when I play in a Division instead of playing Solo. Everytime I Div up with clan members I get +2 tier MM about 80% of the time. When playing in a cruiser it's very very annoying and often painfull. Especially BBs that are 2 tiers higher deal too much damage even when they only hit the tail of your ship. I'm enjoying WOWS less and less lately. Every time I Div up we get awful MM and teams. Is WG ever going to realise that -2/+2 tiers is just no fun. And they would have more players and keep more new players playing the game if it was only -1/+1. I have a lot of players in my recruiting station but none of them play anymore, all of them quitted the game within 2 to 4 weeks max.

Really?

You have help of divisionsmates and complain about uptiering? The cards are already stacked in your favour!

[Pow_tae_toe]

Just had some MM fun... 4 radars on red team and 0 radars on green team... guess the outcome :p

 

 

[DFens_666]

On 2/19/2020 at 3:16 PM, Xevious_Red said:

But then how much is that confirmation bias?

 

For example, my average WR sits at 58%. But my Des Moines (131 games) is languishing at 45%. Now to me, the DM is a cursed ship - if it can go wrong it will with that ship. Recently it got put in a match against a RAIN 3 man division. I got deleted from 100% to 0% in a single volley from the RAIN yamato. I've met Flamu twice in all my battles. Both times he was on the enemy team. Both times I was in the DM. Both times I had to fight him directly. Yesterday I had to pull out a 200k 4437PR game just to scrape a win, and even that was touch and go, and came down to winning on points as our sole surviving shima decided to try fighting a cruiser instead of just staying alive.

 

Now it could be that secretly I'm a great DM player, and that WG has decided to turn the rigging up to 11, and lump me with the most useless teams, put me against KoTS winners and known streamers, and set my armour on guaranteed citadel.

 

However it's more likely that the play style doesnt suit me (I prefer kiting cruisers), I position badly which gets me killed/cant support well, and I remember all the bad stuff more because every time I press battle with it I'm now expecting to lose/die horribly

 

Is it confirmation bias, if more than 1 person is saying it tho? Like your DM example, i expect everyone with good knowledge about the game to conclude, if he is playing the ship badly or if he has been unlucky with the teams. Ive had HORRIBLE teams with my GK for the first 20-30 games. Yes, i changed the build, but overall i didnt feel that i was making the wrong moves - my teams just werent made for winning. After that bad streak, it went up and i got results for playing the same way. Probably changing my build made it a a bit easier, but if you have bad teams, no matter what you do, you will lose.

Same story but opposite for my NC: Some games i could have scratched my butt because i didnt have to do anything.

 

But its not about a single ship or even a single tier: Im not saying, its definetely that way (nor could i even prove that). But from playing with different skilled players in division, it seems to be like that more often than it should happen.

[ThePopesHolyFinger]

On 2/18/2020 at 4:17 AM, ColonelPete said:

No. The ratios are known.

Wow, that was most wonderfully insightful and helpfull. Many thanks for informing us what those ratios are and the links to them

[ColonelPete]

5 hours ago, DB2212 said:

Wow, that was most wonderfully insightful and helpfull. Many thanks for informing us what those ratios are and the links to them

The numbers are common knowledge. If you are really interested, just google. If not, then not.

[RivvenDarke]

On 2/18/2020 at 4:14 PM, Crysantos said:

In our recent DevBlog post we've released upcoming changes as you know. It's a step in this direction, we'll see how it works out. I actually played quite some low Tier battles on Tier III-V on the NA server and the vast majority of CVs I ran into were regular players trying out CVs - not sealclubbers trying to min-max. Your training room scenario isn't really representative for the reality of these battles.

 

And we'll obviously keep monitoring this situation and make more changes if needed.

 

Greetings, Crysantos

 

@Crysantos

Sorry but thats total nonsense. NA is - according to Notser and the other CCs there - blessed with a VERY low CV representation. So when you say ist ok there so its also ok in EU thats beyond any kind of logic. I can post you every day a new screen of my daily trying to get a vitory on the Isokaze. EVERY game six CVs. All DDs are on the Bottom with Zero damage as they get focused out. I was under constant air attack for 8 minutes until i died and shot down ZERO planes. Fun. So much fun.  

[ColonelPete]

2 minutes ago, RivvenDarke said:

All DDs are on the Bottom with Zero damage as they get focused out. I was under constant air attack for 8 minutes until i died and shot down ZERO planes. Fun. So much fun.  

That are not normal results.

This is the server average for Tier IV:

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20200215/eu_2month/average_ship.html

[Gnolfus]

Impossible to clear the first win star on my Hipper this morning.

I am relatively new (but competent I'd say). The 5 previous matches I've been uptiered +1/+2, and lost every single one. I've also been the top scorer in all of those matches but one, in a Hipper in tier 9/10 matches. I don't play to farm damage either, I always try to shoot at DDs, back up my own DDs and fire at rader cruisers, etc. When I check the stats of my team, it's nearly only 40-45% WR players with thousands of games but terrible stats. Terrible as in lower average damage than me, and I don't even have a ship above tier 8, all of my matches are in tier 5-8. This is getting beyond statistically likely, is there a worldwide sale on glue or something right now? Why do I keep getting the paraplegic 60 year old retired boomer teams? If I am top tier in a match and don't perform well (top 5 at the very least), I feel ashamed. Yamatos at 200 base XP on the bottom, like wtf how do these people even function in day to day life? Rant over 

[Crysantos]

4 hours ago, RivvenDarke said:

 

@Crysantos

Sorry but thats total nonsense. NA is - according to Notser and the other CCs there - blessed with a VERY low CV representation. So when you say ist ok there so its also ok in EU thats beyond any kind of logic. I can post you every day a new screen of my daily trying to get a vitory on the Isokaze. EVERY game six CVs. All DDs are on the Bottom with Zero damage as they get focused out. I was under constant air attack for 8 minutes until i died and shot down ZERO planes. Fun. So much fun.  

While I appreciate feedback, calling my personal experience over there nonsense isn't constructive or any basis for a discussion. You want to tell me what I saw there? I played on NA in the last two weeks roughly 100 battles , ca. 60 on Tier I-V, and that's probably more than most NA CCs over there played recently on lower Tiers off stream, but obviously experiences are very subjective and differ. I checked every single CV player I played against and  most battles on lower Tiers had around 2-3 CVs per side. I also disagree with all DDs are always on the bottom with 0 damage, you're over-exaggerating and that won't help you make your case here, quite the opposite. Let's have a realistic discussion about the actual gameplay experience without claiming extremes.

 

I'm not saying CVs on that Tier aren't problematic in high numbers per side. And this is also why we address the MM there to make the experience better and reduce the amount of battles with such high number of CVs.

 

Greetings, Crysantos

[Merlin851526]

1 hour ago, Crysantos said:

While I appreciate feedback, calling my personal experience over there nonsense isn't constructive or any basis for a discussion. You want to tell me what I saw there? I played on NA in the last two weeks roughly 100 battles , ca. 60 on Tier I-V, and that's probably more than most NA CCs over there played recently on lower Tiers off stream, but obviously experiences are very subjective and differ. I checked every single CV player I played against and  most battles on lower Tiers had around 2-3 CVs per side. I also disagree with all DDs are always on the bottom with 0 damage, you're over-exaggerating and that won't help you make your case here, quite the opposite. Let's have a realistic discussion about the actual gameplay experience without claiming extremes.

 

I'm not saying CVs on that Tier aren't problematic in high numbers per side. And this is also why we address the MM there to make the experience better and reduce the amount of battles with such high number of CVs.

 

Greetings, Crysantos

Your intimation that you encountered low numbers of seal clubbers so all is well might be the problem with the feedback your currently getting.To be fair whether or not you encountered high or low numbers of seal clubbers is a somewhat different argument aside from MM. If you limited CV's to One aside you would still have seal clubbing. Moreover seal clubbing isn't exclusive to the CV class. The fundamental problem currently with low tiers is the amount of CV's in game . Now I cant speak for the NA server as I don't play on it. But from my experience on the EU server if I go down to tier VI or V it's wall to wall CV's. Now thankfully I'm not a DD main and frankly I don't know how anyone is still currently playing that class at low tiers. From my humble experience from playing on the EU server Six CV's in a game is too much no matter how many times it happens.

[Crysantos]

11 minutes ago, Merlin851526 said:

Your intimation that you encountered low numbers of seal clubbers so all is well might be the problem with the feedback your currently getting.To be fair whether or not you encountered high or low numbers of seal clubbers is a somewhat different argument aside from MM. If you limited CV's to One aside you would still have seal clubbing. Moreover seal clubbing isn't exclusive to the CV class. The fundamental problem currently with low tiers is the amount of CV's in game . Now I cant speak for the NA server as I don't play on it. But from my experience on the EU server if I go down to tier VI or V it's wall to wall CV's. Now thankfully I'm not a DD main and frankly I don't know how anyone is still currently playing that class at low tiers. From my humble experience from playing on the EU server Six CV's in a game is too much no matter how many times it happens. 

I don't disagree and neither do Devs - we are currently working on reducing the amount CVs (see related announcement:https://forum.worldofwarships.eu/topic/131118-st-matchmaker-changes/ ). My comment regarding sealclubbing was more about the popular theme of most of the CVs on that Tier are played by very experienced commanders sealclubbing - that doesn't seem to be the case (at least in my personal opinion and what our Devs see from our internal data) and thus isn't the main concern for us when it comes to low Tier CV discussions. So I just wanted to address this in here ;)

 

And I appreciate the constructive feedback, much appreciated!

 

Greetings, Crysantos

 

[Zerstoeroer]

3 hours ago, Crysantos said:

I don't disagree and neither do Devs - we are currently working on reducing the amount CVs (see related announcement:https://forum.worldofwarships.eu/topic/131118-st-matchmaker-changes/ ). My comment regarding sealclubbing was more about the popular theme of most of the CVs on that Tier are played by very experienced commanders sealclubbing - that doesn't seem to be the case (at least in my personal opinion and what our Devs see from our internal data) and thus isn't the main concern for us when it comes to low Tier CV discussions. So I just wanted to address this in here ;)

 

And I appreciate the constructive feedback, much appreciated!

 

Greetings, Crysantos

 

On my main, I have a DD WTR of 2300. I just got sunk by a 1000 WTR Lexington in my Z-46, without being able to do crap. He followed me for minutes.

 

This bs has been going on for one year. That`s how clueless your devs are. To say that they don`t disagree is a complete joke.

It`s not just low tier as well. CVs are complete crap. Top Unicum players told you before the "rework" went live.

I have never seen devs so clueless in terms of game balance (there is none left between CVs and overpowered crap ships).

 

I know that you are just the messenger, but please.

 

 

[ZoidFile]

2 hours ago, Crysantos said:

I don't disagree and neither do Devs - we are currently working on reducing the amount CVs 

 

[Squarebasher54]

The MM needs to be skilled based on a ship by ship basis, hello CP.

 

On the subject of CVs there should be a hard cap of one per team, I play CVs resonably often if I have to wait a little longer to get a game so be it.

 

On the subject of seal clubbing maybe limiting captain skills in the lower tiers would help. example: T1 to 3 only 2 skills count so 3 points, T4 to 5 four skills allowed up to 10 points, T6 12 to 14 points could be spent, T7 and above all skills count.

[ThePopesHolyFinger]

19 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

The numbers are common knowledge. If you are really interested, just google. If not, then not.

Well I could have done that.

But that would have denied you a chance to spam your post count. And we would hate to see your battle score go to ruin at the cost of post counts

[ColonelPete]

4 hours ago, DB2212 said:

Well I could have done that.

But that would have denied you a chance to spam your post count. And we would hate to see your battle score go to ruin at the cost of post counts

And you wanted your chance to make another empty addition to the forum 

[Mrs_Ragdoll]

On 2/20/2020 at 3:48 PM, ColonelPete said:

Really?

You have help of divisionsmates and complain about uptiering? The cards are already stacked in your favour!

 

not if the members in your Division have bad to avarage stats and you are in EVERY ROUND against tier +2

[HassenderZerhacker]

start of today's randoms session:

 

Bottom tier loss (ranked 5th in team)

Bottom tier loss (ranked 5th in team)

Bottom tier loss (ranked 4th in team)

 

...

GG

[lossi_2018]

On 2/21/2020 at 9:49 AM, ColonelPete said:

That are not normal results.

This is the server average for Tier IV:

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20200215/eu_2month/average_ship.html

Server average for last 3 months? or just plain average since start cuz CV numbers were almost non existent back then.

 

 

Edit* nevermind, I read the post and figured it out lol me :D

[lossi_2018]

20 hours ago, Squarebasher54 said:

The MM needs to be skilled based on a ship by ship basis, hello CP.

  

On the subject of CVs there should be a hard cap of one per team, I play CVs resonably often if I have to wait a little longer to get a game so be it.

 

On the subject of seal clubbing maybe limiting captain skills in the lower tiers would help. example: T1 to 3 only 2 skills count so 3 points, T4 to 5 four skills allowed up to 10 points, T6 12 to 14 points could be spent, T7 and above all skills count.

Some people won't like your proposals

[Squarebasher54]

15 minutes ago, lossi_2018 said:

Some people won't like your proposals

I agree with you but I think it would help newcomers, even if the captain skill limitations were just in tiers 1 to 4 I think it would help.

 

It has to help the game to keep newcomers.

[ForlornSailor]

33 minutes ago, lossi_2018 said:

Server average for last 3 months? or just plain average since start cuz CV numbers were almost non existent back then.

 

T4 stats are pretty much... useless by now. The matchmaking down there is so upside down, that I concider the recent data worthless. There are 5x5 games with 3 CVs and 2 DDs per side. Enemy DDs suicide, your DDs rush & kill the CVs, you scramble to do some little damage (beeing a CV yourself) - boom a win with less then 7 k damage. So the average damage - especially of CVs! - is right now heavily skewed and doesnt represent the current situation.

 

Same goes for the T4 DDs. A lot of experianced players are in T4 right now and they play DDs. Matchmaking monitor does give them away. Ive played Isokaze myself a few times and when you actually get a full game and bad CVs - you do this:

 

btw: my round got cut short cuz I got teamkilled by a turd french DD on my team. 2 km next to a almost full HP Kaiser, which would have net me another 30 k damage on top of the 110 k.

[lossi_2018]

6 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

T4 stats are pretty much... useless by now. The matchmaking down there is so upside down, that I concider the recent data worthless. There are 5x5 games with 3 CVs and 2 DDs per side. Enemy DDs suicide, your DDs rush & kill the CVs, you scramble to do some little damage (beeing a CV yourself) - boom a win with less then 7 k damage. So the average damage - especially of CVs! - is right now heavily skewed and doesnt represent the current situation.

 

Same goes for the T4 DDs. A lot of experianced players are in T4 right now and they play DDs. Matchmaking monitor does give them away. Ive played Isokaze myself a few times and when you actually get a full game and bad CVs - you do this:

 

btw: my round got cut short cuz I got teamkilled by a turd french DD on my team. 2 km next to a almost full HP Kaiser, which would have net me another 30 k damage on top of the 110 k.

yea, i fear friendly torps when in low tiers the most :) 

[ThePopesHolyFinger]

22 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

And you wanted your chance to make another empty addition to the forum 

Empty is what happens between your ears.
21,754 empty posts and you're worried about folk catching up with you?

 

Come on, with all your vast experience we dearly hope you can pass on something useful to us all.

We've yet to see anything useful from 26K posts. It's all spam and nothing helpful.