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Matchmaker Discussion Thread & MM Balance

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1 hour ago, lossi_2018 said:

I had a team trying to go through a tight strait on a defend base map from one side. The right. All ships, whole team that is but me and a dd got stucked (literally) in the narrow for 14 mins. One on top of each other, unable to move forward or back. Comedy.

Unless you're the ship defending base against a fleet. Granted you knew it was coming, you pick a good rock, blocked the easier approach and you are blasting away for relative safety. That is... you fire your guns and then 8-9 ships get to fire theirs, its a freaking democracy. Tragedy.

 

They finally joined the game around that time, but by then I was at bottom of sea and the game ended on points around the 15 min mark. I believe 80% of our team didnt fire a single shot. It was an uptiered game for me in a t8 (all other ships t10).

 

Zuper. 

that indeed sounds like comedy gold. Any chance you can load the replay and make us a few screenshots? there's even a thread that would make the perfect home for that:

 

Come on, do it! For the Greater Good (and for the lulz)!

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2 hours ago, lossi_2018 said:

avoid randoms if you're on winning streak rn...

I had a team trying to go through a tight strait on a defend base map from one side. The right. All ships, whole team that is but me and a dd got stucked (literally) in the narrow for 14 mins. One on top of each other, unable to move forward or back. Comedy.

Unless you're the ship defending base against a fleet. Granted you knew it was coming, you pick a good rock, blocked the easier approach and you are blasting away for relative safety. That is... you fire your guns and then 8-9 ships get to fire theirs, its a freaking democracy. Tragedy.

 

They finally joined the game around that time, but by then I was at bottom of sea and the game ended on points around the 15 min mark. I believe 80% of our team didnt fire a single shot. It was an uptiered game for me in a t8 (all other ships t10).

 

Zuper. 

 

proceed with caution or not at all :cat_paw: or then again go ahead, you might get lucky haha :D

i'd love to see that on 2 brothers

wait, it wasn't 2 brothers was it...?

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Having a background of working on game balance, the launcher simply needs a couple tweeks to give players more freedom to choose the type of match they want. There is always the super good player who says get good and can do a battle where his opponents are 2 tiers above, cause he can hurt pretty much anyone. Then there is the other 95% of the player base who are simply average and require more FAIR balance in game play to have a decent experience. here are the 2 simply launcher options to look at.

 

1. choose +/- 1 tier with the understanding a match could take a hair longer to get set up.

2. Same Tier only, again with a longer MM time likely being the end result.

 

WG devs need to realize most of humanity are not hulking warriors of doom and have average abilties, average tactics, and desire a balanced and fair experience. putting a t8 in with t 10s for most players is a seal clubbing experience where they are the seals. when I was T8 and would constantly complain about it being unfair in game. I got the usual people telling me to get good, or no its your lack of skill etc. well low and behold, I got to tier 10, and all of a sudden those matches where I get demolished disappeared, I was scoring top 5 and doing well. since I went from T8 to T 10 in a single day I know my tactics and skill did not change at all. the only thing that changed was having a ship that could stand up to thiers. To me that pointed out the massive differences in the  tiers for ship power. hence I think for the sake of fair ness and balance the 2 options I presented need to become a reality. And btw despite having some T 10 ships I really prefer to play T7 and T8 cause I like those ships,  they look cool, handle well, and create a fun experience. Not everyone wants to play the highly competitive zone all the time, so don't push people to it, let them experience the game the way they want to.

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Played 5 or 6 games with Bismark tonight, only 1 as T8 top tier (and most ships were T8 in that match!), the rest all T10 matches where only one or two T8 ships and majority of T10. Same last night, and the night before...

 

Which makes me wonder - what's the point of playing T8 if you end up in T10? You may as well play T10 if 80% of the time it'll be a T10 match; you'll fair better and your team will definitely thank you for it.

 

Yes, you can do dmg, i've even come top or 2nd in such matches while in my T8 battleship - but last game is perfect example. Broadside Yamato at 2.5km, I do 3 citidel shots while I'm angled (only 4 forward facing guns) and it's not even big dmg to him. Just squishes me. If I were in my GK it'd have been an absolute mangling of that yama :D

 

 

Makes me want to abandon all T8/T9 ships though as... there's no point playing them - it's going to be T10 matches. Do everyone a favour, and play T10 instead.

 

Won't sell the Bismark, but guessing it's time to buy the Gnei again to get some games OTHER than T10. 

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It doesn't help that power creep means that being bottom tier in many ships is basically akin to being AFK from a contribution perspective.

 

I was briefly and successfully enjoying the new CV's, until it turned out that every single T6 match was against a team of T8's you couldn't get anywhere near to. Best of all, there was usually a T8 CV too because there were 2 CV in every game meaning you got fighter-raped every flight if the T8 chose to ruin your day.

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11 minutes ago, WynnZeroOne said:

I was briefly and successfully enjoying the new CV's, until it turned out that every single T6 match was against a team of T8's you couldn't get anywhere near to. Best of all, there was usually a T8 CV too because there were 2 CV in every game meaning you got fighter-raped every flight if the T8 chose to ruin your day.

 

Especially last days the fun is completely gone when playing T6 or T7.

2 CV's per side, 1 T6 and 1 T8 seems to be 'normal'. Completely useless.

lets hope they fired the sucker who made this mess they call a game.

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8 minutes ago, AngryDragon70 said:

 

Especially last days the fun is completely gone when playing T6 or T7.

2 CV's per side, 1 T6 and 1 T8 seems to be 'normal'. Completely useless.

lets hope they fired the sucker who made this mess they call a game.

Well, I'm not sure calling for anyone to be fired is going to help. There's a lack of enjoyment at present. I enjoy a challenge, but not the feeling of hopelessness that the MM throws up through either tier or imbalanced ships.

 

1 CV per game is enough, +1/-1 is also enough

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2 hours ago, Ronin_Cahill said:

Having a background of working on game balance, the launcher simply needs a couple tweeks to give players more freedom to choose the type of match they want. There is always the super good player who says get good and can do a battle where his opponents are 2 tiers above, cause he can hurt pretty much anyone. Then there is the other 95% of the player base who are simply average and require more FAIR balance in game play to have a decent experience. here are the 2 simply launcher options to look at. 

 

1. choose +/- 1 tier with the understanding a match could take a hair longer to get set up.

2. Same Tier only, again with a longer MM time likely being the end result.

 

WG devs need to realize most of humanity are not hulking warriors of doom and have average abilties, average tactics, and desire a balanced and fair experience. putting a t8 in with t 10s for most players is a seal clubbing experience where they are the seals. when I was T8 and would constantly complain about it being unfair in game. I got the usual people telling me to get good, or no its your lack of skill etc. well low and behold, I got to tier 10, and all of a sudden those matches where I get demolished disappeared, I was scoring top 5 and doing well. since I went from T8 to T 10 in a single day I know my tactics and skill did not change at all. the only thing that changed was having a ship that could stand up to thiers. To me that pointed out the massive differences in the  tiers for ship power. hence I think for the sake of fair ness and balance the 2 options I presented need to become a reality. And btw despite having some T 10 ships I really prefer to play T7 and T8 cause I like those ships,  they look cool, handle well, and create a fun experience. Not everyone wants to play the highly competitive zone all the time, so don't push people to it, let them experience the game the way they want to. 

 

Being toptier +2 is the only chance that bad players can get anything done. Why you think, that they get better whey they only face sametier ships? They will get even worse compared to good players...

As for you doing well on T10... sadly, thats not true. Have a look at your stats https://wows-numbers.com/de/player/560487836,Ronin_Cahill/

The higher you go, the worse it gets for you.

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2 hours ago, Ronin_Cahill said:

Having a background of working on game balance, the launcher simply needs a couple tweeks to give players more freedom to choose the type of match they want. There is always the super good player who says get good and can do a battle where his opponents are 2 tiers above, cause he can hurt pretty much anyone. Then there is the other 95% of the player base who are simply average and require more FAIR balance in game play to have a decent experience. here are the 2 simply launcher options to look at.

 

1. choose +/- 1 tier with the understanding a match could take a hair longer to get set up.

2. Same Tier only, again with a longer MM time likely being the end result.

 

WG devs need to realize most of humanity are not hulking warriors of doom and have average abilties, average tactics, and desire a balanced and fair experience. putting a t8 in with t 10s for most players is a seal clubbing experience where they are the seals. when I was T8 and would constantly complain about it being unfair in game. I got the usual people telling me to get good, or no its your lack of skill etc. well low and behold, I got to tier 10, and all of a sudden those matches where I get demolished disappeared, I was scoring top 5 and doing well. since I went from T8 to T 10 in a single day I know my tactics and skill did not change at all. the only thing that changed was having a ship that could stand up to thiers. To me that pointed out the massive differences in the  tiers for ship power. hence I think for the sake of fair ness and balance the 2 options I presented need to become a reality. And btw despite having some T 10 ships I really prefer to play T7 and T8 cause I like those ships,  they look cool, handle well, and create a fun experience. Not everyone wants to play the highly competitive zone all the time, so don't push people to it, let them experience the game the way they want to.

 

9C7C5D51-AC7B-45DF-BCDB-B7F9E903F9C1.jpeg

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2 hours ago, Chips_uk said:

Which makes me wonder - what's the point of playing T8 if you end up in T10? You may as well play T10 if 80% of the time it'll be a T10 match; you'll fair better and your team will definitely thank you for it.

 


thats the whole point. WG wants to make u want to get to tier 10 asap so you'll buy premium and all that 

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2 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Being toptier +2 is the only chance that bad players can get anything done. Why you think, that they get better whey they only face sametier ships? They will get even worse compared to good players...

As for you doing well on T10... sadly, thats not true. Have a look at your stats https://wows-numbers.com/de/player/560487836,Ronin_Cahill/

The higher you go, the worse it gets for you.

ignoring the elitists in the thread, im going to point out that majority of people don't learn by going into a situation where they're up against it. if that's the case we won't have things like boot camp for soldiers. just throw fresh recruits into a battle and they'll "improve" right? to draw an analogy i once participated in a CQC training session for a private security company as the opposing force. they(the green trainees) failed the training ex with 6 of them taken out by me alone. sure, i can say to them "git gud" if i was just solely there for my own enjoyment at their expense. but because the objective was to learn, they actually got a breakdown of what they did wrong etc after the training ex. Because just going in and getting the crap kicked out of them was not in any way going to teach them anything.

Seeing as actually having a AAR after a game is not a thing, a game in which you immediately die at the start, or where you aren't forced to sit back in a stock ship with a captain that isn't even retrained, isn't going to teach you anything either, so the next best thing is a fairer MM. i mean, i don't even think it has to be a +1 only MM, +2 isn't too bad, what's bad is say, when the MM puts a stock ship with a captain that isn't retrained yet into a fight and matches it with a premium. so imagine if say you just got your fiji, stock modules, captain not retrained, and MM decides your opposite number on the enemy team should be say, a flint. that's the sort of MM issues im more concerned about. You need to give people time to learn a new ship and to get it up to spec at least no?

i mean end of the day WG wants to ask itself: do they want to make a game where only say, 10% of people, many who're generally unpleasant people, will enjoy, or one open to a wider pool of people who can enjoy it? the more people enjoy it, the more likely they are to want to put some money into the game too






 

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7 hours ago, Ronin_Cahill said:

I got to tier 10, and all of a sudden those matches where I get demolished disappeared, I was scoring top 5 and doing well

I am sorry mate, but you don't.. nope.. not doing well..

don't get me wrong, I am  not saying this to bash you,

If you think you really doing well... you won't improve at all,

and 38K average damage and %28,5 WR in tier X is far beyond well.. I am really sorry but it is..

 

You cannot give that +2 or +1 or same tier MM choice to the people,

you said you have a background on game balance but this idea seems ridiculous..

That is even worse than changing MM to complete +1/-1

 

The thing is, in online gaming, there is a thing called BIS, (best in practice)

When you give 3 choices of something to people, or even 30..

one of them deemed as BIS by players in a very short time, then %99 of the playerbase will pick that.

 

For example, secondary speccing the german battleships are generally deemed as BIS, so, almost all Bismarcks and tirpitzs, FDGs, GKs are secondary specced.. fully or partially.

 

There are BIS captain builds, and people try to find them and follow them,

you cannot see too many people getting RPF on their harugumo or kita,

and you cannot see too many people getting AFT on their shima..

 

Like these examples,

If you give MM choices to the people, they will find the BIS, and the rest will non existent in a very short time.

But I presume with your experience in balancing games, you'd already know all of these..

 

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5 hours ago, EmilyKing said:

ignoring the elitists in the thread, im going to point out that majority of people don't learn by going into a situation where they're up against it. if that's the case we won't have things like boot camp for soldiers. just throw fresh recruits into a battle and they'll "improve" right? to draw an analogy i once participated in a CQC training session for a private security company as the opposing force. they(the green trainees) failed the training ex with 6 of them taken out by me alone. sure, i can say to them "git gud" if i was just solely there for my own enjoyment at their expense. but because the objective was to learn, they actually got a breakdown of what they did wrong etc after the training ex. Because just going in and getting the crap kicked out of them was not in any way going to teach them anything.

Seeing as actually having a AAR after a game is not a thing, a game in which you immediately die at the start, or where you aren't forced to sit back in a stock ship with a captain that isn't even retrained, isn't going to teach you anything either, so the next best thing is a fairer MM. i mean, i don't even think it has to be a +1 only MM, +2 isn't too bad, what's bad is say, when the MM puts a stock ship with a captain that isn't retrained yet into a fight and matches it with a premium. so imagine if say you just got your fiji, stock modules, captain not retrained, and MM decides your opposite number on the enemy team should be say, a flint. that's the sort of MM issues im more concerned about. You need to give people time to learn a new ship and to get it up to spec at least no?

i mean end of the day WG wants to ask itself: do they want to make a game where only say, 10% of people, many who're generally unpleasant people, will enjoy, or one open to a wider pool of people who can enjoy it? the more people enjoy it, the more likely they are to want to put some money into the game too






 

Your talk about “elitism” is awfully elitist... 

 

If a player wants to rush through ships, lines and tiers without practicing and understanding game mechanics and ship traits. That’s their choice. It’s a F2P game that doesn’t limit how a player wants to pay. If WG limit how to play, they lose the player base and go bankrupt. Simple economics.

 

Maybe they should make it harder to grind. So that you learn, like WoT which as a grind is far longer and harder with a far less generous credit and exp system. The fact that in theory you can grind a high tier line in only 16 games is a bit.... short. Granted you need to have invested in camo, prem time, actually be good and maybe take advantage of the first win bonus.

 

MM won’t ever fix bad players suffering. If anything you make it easier for the very good players to stomp through teams as there was will no bigger fish to stomp on them. MM has been 2+ for three years. It works. You get rewarded as a T8 in a T10 by getting more exp. 

 

Though it’s funny how there is never a thread started by a T8 player about how they feel sorry for the T6’s when they get to be top tier... hummm :fish_book:

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Besides "matchmaking" there is an element some in this thread don't consider at all and that is "teammaking". Having 2+/2- Tiers in a match is one thing if both teams have players of roughly equal skill and experience. But it is very different even if all ships are same tier but one team has far more OP players (taking their statistics into account) than the opposing team. To this effect considering the same negative feedback of many players in this forum (some who have played for thousands of battles and others who are new to higher tiers) and my own experience recently looking at the teams I have been assigned to, I decided to open a ticket with WG support about the really bad "teammaking" and lack of team balancing. 

 

Here is their response:

"Thank you for contacting us.

I want to note that our matchmaker does not consider a personal statistic of the player.

You play with random users each of them has a personal idea of how to act in different game situations.

In your team may be gotten as players with a high level of skill, and no, because it is random.

Our balancer does not have personal settings for individual players, therefore, the victory depends on the actions of the team.

We do not plan to take into account players win rate or skill in matchmaking.

Should you have any other issues, please don't hesitate to contact us.

Good luck on the battlefield.

Best regards,"

2nd reply:

"As I told you before, our matchmaker does not consider a personal statistic of the player. Therefore, you can't predict which team you will be matched. 

All players are in the same conditions. 

Should you have any other issues, please don't hesitate to contact us.
Yours sincerely
,"

 

Their "official" stance is that there is no form of "teammaking" just Tier based "matchmaking" if this is actually true then that is the core of the problem. If a large segment of players are constantly placed in losing teams then they will stop playing altogether or play only mid tier or give up on random and switch to co-op.

 

I'm not a super godlike player with millions of battles in my profile, flash reflexes, super aim prediction senses and a built in tactical computer. But even I don't make the tactical mistakes I see in 80% of the teams I'm placed in atm. I'm on the worste losing streak I've ever been on. Very rarely do I find myself on a team that actually plays together well and makes sound tactical choices.

 

Normally the teams I'm on do the following:
-doesn't go anywhere near the caps
-mills around the starting areas
-does a lemming rush to one side of the map leaving the rest of the map wide open to the opposing team
-starts off good moving towards cap points but then runs away at the first sign of the enemy
 

Now when I say tactical I'm not talking about individual skills, I mean where on the map these players decide to go where the combined firepower and abilities can make a difference.

 

In 80% of these battles the enemy team takes all the cap points before we even get close. Or the enemy team has good tactical positioning (exactly the way I would have played a team) and ploughs right through our team.

 

Now me and @Ronin_Cahill who made a post in this thread if you scroll up a little. Have tried everything. We tried playing tactically, we tried playing supportively to our team's movements, we tried loanwolfing, we tried division capping, we tried joining a ship grouping on the map and then leading the charge in the hope to get them to actually fight in the battle. Later we just gave up and started doing suicidal bonzai charges straight into enemy lines to do as much damage and earn as much xp and creds as we can before dying and then leaving port to jump straight into the next useless random match. Since we know WG couldn't be bothered to implement the concept of "teammaking" and since we know we are placed almost solely in teams that seem determined to play badly we have accepted that we will always be on the losing team and therefore just blast through the battle as quickly as possible to gain xp, creds and damage (we took to calling it power leveling). Some team mates complained and said that we are contributing to a team loss by doing that, but we tried everything else and there is nothing we can do with such a team that can contribute to a team win. I even contacted that one complaining player afterwards and asked him "ok so what is your magic winning recipe to win when you have a bad team?" and I was met with complete silence because he knew I was right.

However it leaves me very discouraged and I'm actually thinking about playing other games (like the rest of the people leaving the shrinking player base). It's one thing to get credits, xp and damage. But it would be fun to actually win a few battles for a change. You may disagree with what I and Ronin are doing but what choice do we have? We are always placed with really really bad teams. You can be a total WoWs-god but that still won't help you win a battle or even carry a match if the rest of your team is destined to lose and made up out of really bad players.

Now for me to say "really bad team" considering I'm new to the game and don't do that well myself, means that the teams I'm talking about play even worse. Now that is saying something. I've spoken to some unicum players in discord and their feedback is that I have to play as if I'm the only player in my team if I'm matched with a bad team. Which is what Ronin and me have been doing. But like I said. No player in the world can pick up the slack if the rest of your team sucks really bad and the opposing team is far more OP.

In a nutshell:
"Teammaking" not "matchmaking" is the problem. WG must balance the teams. Until then I'll be doing suicidal bonzai charges while the cowards, afk junkies and campers in my team do their usual magic to lose the battle.

 

 

PS. and yes I expect the usual WG/WoWs fanboys and unicums to say "git gud", "your stats say", "you shouldn't be playing T10 yet", "but I have a 90% win ratio"...bla bla bla
this isn't a run of bad luck, and it gets even worse if I division up with Ronin. Having a Win/Loss of roughly 50% is one thing but a 80% losing streak is just too much for me to take randoms seriously anymore and expect anything else than a team determined to lose.

Prentresultaat vir salt

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lol someone posted some stats regarding my win loss ratio or something like that..lol I don't even know where to look for that information. having said that in the process of power matching and dashing in to do damage and such I imagine many of my battles were lost, however, after I die I drop back to port and play another. as commissar said we are new to the game and if a whole team is doing worse that us (and I consider myself pretty low) then its a rather bad team. and for the remark about getting into t 10 matchs and making top 5, I have plenty of screen shots to prove that..mainly as I flood commissar with them in glee. plus I have only been tier 10 for a couple days.

as for the comments about MM options, well I believe in a fair and just world..sort of very 21st century progressive thinking likely. many of you who have old and archaic view points on how games should work should head back to the 20th century where punitive reinforcement was the norm and we hid special needs children in hospitals, because that non inclusive, elitist mentality is disgusting and has no place in the free world.

 

So I am sticking to my insistence that different MM options be implemented to better serve the needs of players. Keep your +/- 2 tier, add +/- 1 tier and same tier options. MAKE THE GAME FAIR AND BALANCED for those looking for a fair experience.

 

p.s. I cant believe someone actually argued against fairness...holy cow.

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Of course, you do all realise that most of the opposition to removing the +2/-2 MM comes from those at T9 & 10 who enjoy having 8's to club?

 

'Git gud' is little more than a thinly veiled acknowledgement of the advantage they  both have and enjoy.

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33 minutes ago, Ronin_Cahill said:

lol someone posted some stats regarding my win loss ratio or something like that..lol I don't even know where to look for that information. having said that in the process of power matching and dashing in to do damage and such I imagine many of my battles were lost, however, after I die I drop back to port and play another. as commissar said we are new to the game and if a whole team is doing worse that us (and I consider myself pretty low) then its a rather bad team. and for the remark about getting into t 10 matchs and making top 5, I have plenty of screen shots to prove that..mainly as I flood commissar with them in glee. plus I have only been tier 10 for a couple days.

as for the comments about MM options, well I believe in a fair and just world..sort of very 21st century progressive thinking likely. many of you who have old and archaic view points on how games should work should head back to the 20th century where punitive reinforcement was the norm and we hid special needs children in hospitals, because that non inclusive, elitist mentality is disgusting and has no place in the free world.

 

So I am sticking to my insistence that different MM options be implemented to better serve the needs of players. Keep your +/- 2 tier, add +/- 1 tier and same tier options. MAKE THE GAME FAIR AND BALANCED for those looking for a fair experience.

 

p.s. I cant believe someone actually argued against fairness...holy cow.

https://wows-numbers.com/

 

This is one of the better ones. You can use it if only to see your own progression and see if there is anything you think you can change to help. You can use it to help if you wish. 

 

1+ MM will never be implemented. WG have set that as stone hard fact. EU and RU is quite well populated but NA and Asia are not. MM queues if 1+ were implemented would mean the utter stagnation of the game on those servers. WG are a business after all and will not want to lose revenue. This MM discussion is more than just for player comfort, it's about business profit and game viability. I would recommend some of the operation though. Not MM dependent but still team dependent to a level. Some are also actually quite good. There are also regular ranked season where MM isn't a factor so WG do cater for those who don't like randoms where MM is a thing for some. Really WG have covered their bases on this issue. 

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31 minutes ago, Ronin_Cahill said:

lol someone posted some stats regarding my win loss ratio or something like that..

Hello Mate,

 

you said you are fairly new here.

First of all about the MM. This has been same for all WG titles.

MM only considers the tiers and types of vehicles to put into a match.

Teammaker you guys are asking is called, skill based Match making and it won't come.

And I will not get into details here that how SBMM will be utterly devastating for bad players.. trust me. Or don't go make a research here and WOT forums about Skill based matchmaking.

You will have a year worth reading material.

 

About the stats,

Almost everything about the matchmaker is random,

the only constant in your games is you. So, When you have %28 WR in tier 10 battles,

that means you cannot win 3 games out of 10 you played.

Some players have %60 WR in tier 10s, that means they win 6 out of 10 battles,

Do you really believe that they are winning those matches because MM gives them better teams?

or they play better...

 

Yes, your teams will random,

Yes you will lose some battles whatever you do,

but in the same time, you will win battles even If you just go to opposite border and never fire a single shell.

Not going into details but a skill simulation showed, you will win and lose roughly %30 of battles you join, regardless of your contribution.

the rest %40 is actually is about your skill.. If you are good, you can have %60+ WR, If you are bad you can have %35 WR and that is not the MMs fault.

or your teammates' fault,

It is only your fault.

 

This %30 goes down If you go in a divison of 2 and 3 respectively.

 

Long story short,

MM has its faults, but in the long run, your stats really mean something.

And If you really think you are playing even average on high tiers you have no chance to be a better player, and you will continue to be a burden for your team like you are right now.

If you accept that you need improvement at least to be an average player, then that will be your first step towards a better tomorrow for you.

 

Please don't get offended, I am writing all of this because you write like a reasonable guy so I believe you can understand what I am saying here.

I have 20k+ battles in WOT MM, and 5K+ battles in WOWs MM..

your stats... really tells a story,

don't be a member of the crowd who says "I don't care about stats, I play for phun!"

 

I am not saying play for stats, but trust me,
playing better, doing better and winning more really is much more fun!

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2 minutes ago, WynnZeroOne said:

Of course, you do all realise that most of the opposition to removing the +2/-2 MM comes from those at T9 & 10 who enjoy having 8's to club?

 

'Git gud' is little more than a thinly veiled acknowledgement of the advantage they  both have and enjoy.

Yeah.....shame you're wrong. I love being T8 in T10. More exp and credits to earn. 

 

Getting better is kinda a standard requirement in online PvP games with tier systems, that's kinda how it works.... or am I suddenly being "elitist" because I put in the time and effort to Git Gud.... :cap_old:

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13 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

Hello Mate,

 

you said you are fairly new here.

First of all about the MM. This has been same for all WG titles.

MM only considers the tiers and types of vehicles to put into a match.

Teammaker you guys are asking is called, skill based Match making and it won't come.

And I will not get into details here that how SBMM will be utterly devastating for bad players.. trust me. Or don't go make a research here and WOT forums about Skill based matchmaking.

You will have a year worth reading material.

 

About the stats,

Almost everything about the matchmaker is random,

the only constant in your games is you. So, When you have %28 WR in tier 10 battles,

that means you cannot win 3 games out of 10 you played.

Some players have %60 WR in tier 10s, that means they win 6 out of 10 battles,

Do you really believe that they are winning those matches because MM gives them better teams?

or they play better...

 

Yes, your teams will random,

Yes you will lose some battles whatever you do,

but in the same time, you will win battles even If you just go to opposite border and never fire a single shell.

Not going into details but a skill simulation showed, you will win and lose roughly %30 of battles you join, regardless of your contribution.

the rest %40 is actually is about your skill.. If you are good, you can have %60+ WR, If you are bad you can have %35 WR and that is not the MMs fault.

or your teammates' fault,

It is only your fault.

 

This %30 goes down If you go in a divison of 2 and 3 respectively.

 

Long story short,

MM has its faults, but in the long run, your stats really mean something.

And If you really think you are playing even average on high tiers you have no chance to be a better player, and you will continue to be a burden for your team like you are right now.

If you accept that you need improvement at least to be an average player, then that will be your first step towards a better tomorrow for you.

 

Please don't get offended, I am writing all of this because you write like a reasonable guy so I believe you can understand what I am saying here.

I have 20k+ battles in WOT MM, and 5K+ battles in WOWs MM..

your stats... really tells a story,

don't be a member of the crowd who says "I don't care about stats, I play for phun!"

 

I am not saying play for stats, but trust me,
playing better, doing better and winning more really is much more fun!

obviously you haven't read my post in detail. Where you said "It is only your fault." It is impossible that in 80% of my matches I'm the only factor in why my team loses. If you read my post in detail you'll see what I mean. The post you just made is factually incorrect. Yes it is possible for me to contribute towards a team losing. But not 80% of the time, no way in hell. If that were true then it means one single player on the team controls the match which is a laughable concept. Go read my post again and then come up with better excuses. Here is a link in case you get lost in the multitude of replies to this thread: 

 

Edited by Commissarr
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3 minutes ago, Commissarr said:

obviously you haven't read my post in detail. Where you said "It is only your fault." It is impossible that in 80% of my matches I'm the only factor in why my team loses. If you read my post in detail you'll see what I mean. The post you just made is factually incorrect. Yes it is possible for me to contribute towards a team losing. But not 80% of the time, no way in hell. If that were true then it means one single player on the team controls the match which is a laughable concept. Go read my post again and then come up with better excuses.

Firstly he wasn't responding to you. Secondly you're player who skips/rushes ships to get to T10 whilst being utterly awful in every ship played, and yet has the baws to moan about MM.... Dude, you're the reason you're losing. That and you are dragging 11 other players down at a time every game... That's not opinion. That's an actual visible fact. 

it's true.gif

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1 minute ago, Commissarr said:

It is impossible that in 80% of my matches I'm the only factor in why my team loses.

 

I agree with that,

can you please read the post you've quoted?

I've said, a %30 of your matches are losses that you cannot do anything about

and a %30 of your matches are wins that you really have to kill more than 1 teammate ıf you want to lose,

 

I am not saying that you are losing %80 of the battles because you are playing bad.

I am saying, the rest %40 decided by you... and your skill...

 

Yes somedays MM favors you, some days it tortures you,

let me give you an example from myself,

 

These are mine..

a one week of sessions..

 

image.thumb.png.023179491e2f04ae4b7b2e70494014e1.png

 

this what random MM means for me..

 

On the other hand,

you are not losing 80% of your battles btw,

you are losing 61 battles out of an hundred and winning 39 of them.

Lets remove the 30s,

out of 40 battles, your skill allows you to win 9 of them and makes you lose 31 of them.

 

And If you still think this is because of MM,

I have nothing more to say.

 

This is a friend of mine, last weeks sessions,

image.thumb.png.cd8f9627829999dfd0dd5a4f6f3bd7ce.png

 

So probably MM really loves him...

His high tier stats..

 

image.png.10444b2c36063061b5730cc2c5a34161.png

 

Bottom line,

If you really think that MM makes you lose games,

then this MM has to be set up to favor some people and to screw some other..

and I presume you agree with me that this is a ridiculous idea.

 

Again, my aim is not stat shame, but you have to take a look at yourself, and say, how can I get better..?

That is the only way to win more.. and have fun more.. thats it..

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2 minutes ago, Bear_Necessities said:

Firstly he wasn't responding to you. Secondly you're player who skips/rushes ships to get to T10 whilst being utterly awful in every ship played, and yet has the baws to moan about MM.... Dude, you're the reason you're losing. That and you are dragging 11 other players down at a time every game... That's not opinion. That's an actual visible fact. 

it's true.gif

Firstly I know that he was responding to Ronin and my response to that will still be the same. Plus if it really is me according to your nonsense reply then it's the same for all the people in the teams I find myself on because they seem to be playing far worse than me tactically speaking. Once again here is the link to the post which you obviously haven't read 

Now try again. Your excuse is laughable. No way in hell one person can alter a match in a battle with 2 well balanced teams. Your git gud reply doesn't fly here regardless of your own stats. If I'm bad and my team consistently plays even worse then there is something really wrong going on here considering I'm not that good a player myself.

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13 minutes ago, WynnZeroOne said:

Of course, you do all realise that most of the opposition to removing the +2/-2 MM comes from those at T9 & 10 who enjoy having 8's to club?

From that, you got this?

9 minutes ago, Bear_Necessities said:

Yeah.....shame you're wrong. I love being T8 in T10. More exp and credits to earn. 

Erm, awkward. You must have quoted the wrong post in your rush to have an argument through your keyboard.


I didn't mention anyone disliking T8's in my post, I specifically referenced the obvious fact that any thread around the removal of +2 MM is going to be opposed by those who directly benefit, namely T10's.

 

As has been proven. As is evident. As is predictable. As is human nature.

 

Plenty of T10's in this thread making out as if they love T8's versus T10 but can mostly be found playing T10.

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7 minutes ago, Commissarr said:

Now try again. Your excuse is laughable. No way in hell one person can alter a match in a battle with 2 well balanced teams. Your git gud reply doesn't fly here regardless of your own stats. If I'm bad and my team consistently plays even worse then there is something really wrong going on here considering I'm not that good a player myself.

It's not "laughable" It's doable. A single player can change and/or influence the course of a battle. That's why there was an entire CV rework, though that seems to have passed you by. We call it carrying. You can't hide behind other players. If you're in denial then nobody can help you. As for teams playing bad all the time. That's coz there are many other players who are not skillfull. They just don't moan on the forum. 

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