Matchmaker Discussion Thread & MM Balance

[Yosha_AtaIante]

5 minutes ago, AdrienSuffren said:

Hello there! I couldn't find a more appopriate thread to post the following question.

I've been playing recently mainly two ships in random battles, Henri IV and Hindenburg, with the same playstyle (lighthouse build) and similar performances (xp per battle, dmg, %dmg per ship, potential damage, etc.) Then I started noticing that almost everymatch I played in Hindenburg, I ended with very weak teams, getting stomped in less than 10 mins. While playing with Henri IV, I ended with normal teams.

Is it a complete coincidence or is overall MM changing regarding the ship you play?

Sorry if this question sounds stupid. I'm playing this game for a long time, however I started to pay attention to the mechanics recently.

Its hard to judge. You are not performing bad on both and its normal to have better PR on the ship you lose more often if you stay alive for longer. In a losing game you have more damage potential than in a winning game after all.

 

What causes all the losses is difficult to tell. Maybe you are shooting at the wrong targets. It could be that you are playing too safe and not contributing enough important gameplay on your own in Hindenburg.

 

 

Henri is a fast ship with better utility than Hindenburg, you can go to the place you are needed faster and therefore can react better to match circumstances.

Hindenburg because if its slow speed usually is stuck for a while on the flank you choose to operate which means your reaction time to match circumstances is way slower and therefore your influence is limited to where you are. If your team falls apart in the other side and you can't react in a Hindenburg then that moment might already be GG for you. In a Henri you have the chance to move over and reinforce.

[SurfaceFish]

Intresting world of tanks video from Claus Kellerman basically saying there is RNG of hits and pen predetermined by WG that leads to steamroll and not beacuse bad teammates. Not sure if this applies here. 

 

https://youtu.be/3n2wqOS41zg

[ColonelPete]

57 minutes ago, SurfaceFish said:

Intresting world of tanks video from Claus Kellerman basically saying there is RNG of hits and pen predetermined by WG that leads to steamroll and not beacuse bad teammates. Not sure if this applies here. 

 

https://youtu.be/3n2wqOS41zg

Looks like there are no good or bad players, just favoured and less favoured players 

[AdrienSuffren]

Il y a 6 heures, AtaIante a dit :

Its hard to judge. You are not performing bad on both and its normal to have better PR on the ship you lose more often if you stay alive for longer. In a losing game you have more damage potential than in a winning game after all.

 

What causes all the losses is difficult to tell. Maybe you are shooting at the wrong targets. It could be that you are playing too safe and not contributing enough important gameplay on your own in Hindenburg.

 

 

Henri is a fast ship with better utility than Hindenburg, you can go to the place you are needed faster and therefore can react better to match circumstances.

Hindenburg because if its slow speed usually is stuck for a while on the flank you choose to operate which means your reaction time to match circumstances is way slower and therefore your influence is limited to where you are. If your team falls apart in the other side and you can't react in a Hindenburg then that moment might already be GG for you. In a Henri you have the chance to move over and reinforce.

Thank you for your answer, Atalante. I've thought about the possibility that I may impact less the battle in an Hindenburg and I regularily checked the ships I damaged. And there is no substantial difference or, if there was, I'm killing more (expecillay dds) with Hindenburg than with Henri IV. Adding to that, I literally play the same with both ships, staying mid or between two caps in kiting position, ready to punish everything that comes in my 20km range of fire. My average potentials are very close (1,5-1,6 M).
Finally, even if there was a significant difference of performance between those ships, how could it explain the dozens of battles I witnessed in Hindenburg being lost after my team was completely crushed with very few losses in the enemy team (which I'm most of the time at the origin)?
That's how I came to the idea that something was wrong with the matchmaking.

[AdrienSuffren]

Il y a 5 heures, SurfaceFish a dit :

Intresting world of tanks video from Claus Kellerman basically saying there is RNG of hits and pen predetermined by WG that leads to steamroll and not beacuse bad teammates. Not sure if this applies here. 

 

https://youtu.be/3n2wqOS41zg

I watched the video thoroughly. The thesis is interesting, but we'd need a large number of those battles analysed to make some sense out of it. I guess this is the problem everyone got on this MM thread :)

[ColonelPete]

7 minutes ago, AdrienSuffren said:

I watched the video thoroughly. The thesis is interesting, but we'd need a large number of those battles analysed to make some sense out of it. I guess this is the problem everyone got on this MM thread :)

We already have millions of battles on the different servers.

This is a small excerpt: https://wows-numbers.com/

[Floofz]

7 hours ago, SurfaceFish said:

Intresting world of tanks video from Claus Kellerman basically saying there is RNG of hits and pen predetermined by WG that leads to steamroll and not beacuse bad teammates. Not sure if this applies here. 

 

https://youtu.be/3n2wqOS41zg

 

That is actualy very interesting. Blowouts, losingstreaks, anger and frustration is much worse in WoT than in WoWS, which is why I switched to WoWS. But you can still see it, Ive had some really terrible experiences in this current ranked season. Currently sitting at around 40% WR. Ive played mainly BBs and what Ive noticed is that my team follows the RNG. If I have good RNG I have a good team and vice versa, interesting how that works. Yesterday I played only cruisers and had a 60% WR and that includes games with Yahagi and Agano, both of which are terrible. My reasoning is that BBs are the most RNG based class in the game, the less RNG you depend on the easier it is to carry games.

 

But yea, I used to be famous on this forum for my beliefs about rigging. Im still 100% convinced that the matchmaker isnt random. How and what sort of manipulation and for what reasons I cant be sure, but there are definit patterns.

Im sad that they are doing this thou, I really do love this game, I mean I love WoT aswell. Unfortunately the matchmaker makes these games so unbelivably anger inducing to play that I play only 10% of what I probably could and would do if it wasnt so frustrating. And I doubt Im the only one feeling like that.

[Lootboxer]

From our discord. I guess it's a great success for WG and working as intended but 2x4 subs and 2x2 CVs sucks big time nevertheless for surface plebs.

[Cpt_Wreckless]

23.11.2022 o 22:59, Lootboxer napisał:

From our discord. I guess it's a great success for WG and working as intended but 2x4 subs and 2x2 CVs sucks big time nevertheless for surface plebs.

Disgusting. I was really hoping they capped the sub count at 2 boats...

[Lootboxer]

8 hours ago, Cpt_Wreckless said:

Disgusting. I was really hoping they capped the sub count at 2 boats...

Just played twice Ryujo and both games had double CVs and triple SS.

Surface players were crying so hard that I nearly felt sorry for them.

Nearly

Looks like down there game can be a bit challenging in terms of having fun.

[RamboCras]

Dear WARGAMING,

 

Can you please make it so that when I am bttm tier 8 in a tier X game with tier X Cvs that my f*ck*ing RNG is normal and that I can shoot an 11-13km broadside with as result at LEAST some decent damage. I know German guns are supposed to be crap but at this range even Stevie Wonder can do some f*ck*ing damage.

 

If you have 70K health and a CV take 2-3 time a decent chunk off... all you need is one good pen or your game is over. Hanging back is not an option since there are also long hitters like Yama's in the game.

 

Spending all this time on the shitty subs when the MM is still f*ck all. How can you make an algorithm where you are more up tiered than down tiered?????

 

 

[ColonelPete]

6 minutes ago, RamboCras said:

Dear WARGAMING,

 

Can you please make it so that when I am bttm tier 8 in a tier X game with tier X Cvs that my f*ck*ing RNG is normal and that I can shoot an 11-13km broadside with as result at LEAST some decent damage. I know German guns are supposed to be crap but at this range even Stevie Wonder can do some f*ck*ing damage.

 

If you have 70K health and a CV take 2-3 time a decent chunk off... all you need is one good pen or your game is over. Hanging back is not an option since there are also long hitters like Yama's in the game.

 

Spending all this time on the shitty subs when the MM is still f*ck all. How can you make an algorithm where you are more up tiered than down tiered?????

 

 

What has this to do with MM?

[RamboCras]

On 11/28/2022 at 8:15 PM, ColonelPete said:

What has this to do with MM?

Are you serious? Being a tier 8 and being put in a tier 10 game (=match) has nothing to do with matchmaking??????? Ha ha ha how old are you??

 

[RamboCras]

Played 7 games in tier X, thought it would be nice to play a lower tier.

 

Took my tier 8 out, and where did I end? In a tier X game. Well done wargaming!!

[ColonelPete]

9 hours ago, RamboCras said:

Are you serious? Being a tier 8 and being put in a tier 10 game (=match) has nothing to do with matchmaking??????? Ha ha ha how old are you??

 

So he did not write about RNG, broadsides, damage, german guns,  CV and Subs?

[Bear__Necessities]

On 11/23/2022 at 8:40 PM, Floofz said:

My reasoning is that BBs are the most RNG based class in the game

BB's have THE LEAST influence of all classes. This has been known and discussed to death for years now. Which is why BB WR's are usually a little lower bar the top unicum BB players. 

 

In order of influence. 

 

CV's

DD's

Utility cruisers

all other cruisers

BB's. 

[SmegTheNoob]

2 hours ago, Bear__Necessities said:

BB's have THE LEAST influence of all classes. This has been known and discussed to death for years now. Which is why BB WR's are usually a little lower bar the top unicum BB players. 

 

In order of influence. 

 

CV's

DD's

Utility cruisers

all other cruisers

BB's. 

What's a utility cruiser?

 

Oh and you missed out stupid submarines on your list.

[WorthyOpponent]

 

20 minutes ago, SmegTheNoob said:

What's a utility cruiser?

Mostly cruisers with radars and hydros 

[SmegTheNoob]

56 minutes ago, WorthyOpponent said:

 

Mostly cruisers with radars and hydros 

Lots of cruisers then lol

[Bear__Necessities]

1 hour ago, SmegTheNoob said:

What's a utility cruiser?

 

Oh and you missed out stupid submarines on your list.

Utility cruiser would be something like a DM or Petro OR the swiss army knife of cruisers Worcester. They bring MULTIPLE consumables such as Hydro, Radar, AA defence ect compared to say long range kiting cruisers such as Hindy, Zao and Goliath that maybe pack 1 consumable that has use for a team. 

 

Subs are too new to truly place yet. But a unicum Sub player..... ohhh boy. That's just pain and suffering. 

[SmegTheNoob]

18 minutes ago, Bear__Necessities said:

Utility cruiser would be something like a DM or Petro OR the swiss army knife of cruisers Worcester. They bring MULTIPLE consumables such as Hydro, Radar, AA defence ect compared to say long range kiting cruisers such as Hindy, Zao and Goliath that maybe pack 1 consumable that has use for a team. 

 

Subs are too new to truly place yet. But a unicum Sub player..... ohhh boy. That's just pain and suffering. 

Nice to know about the cruisers.

 

Agree with you on Subs.

They are a complete joke, and the worse thing that has happened in this game.

It goes some for Wargaming to produce something that is worse than the already garbage CV rework lol.

[Bland_42]

It's probably wrote somewhere inside this thread, but I just discovered (shame to me for not knowing) that the MM is related also to the nations of the ships, trying to mirror it.

I'm curious, was ever stated why the nation have a relevance?

It's almost surely a limit of mine, but I can't see what influence can it have...

[SmegTheNoob]

12 minutes ago, Bland_42 said:

It's probably wrote somewhere inside this thread, but I just discovered (shame to me for not knowing) that the MM is related also to the nations of the ships, trying to mirror it.

I'm curious, was ever stated why the nation have a relevance?

It's almost surely a limit of mine, but I can't see what influence can it have...

Pretty sure nations of ships is not taken into account by the matchmaker.

They cannot even take into account cruisers with radar, because you can get 1 team with radar ships and the other with no radar ships.

Hell, even the recent tier 5 brawls, had the matchmaker putting 2 DD's on one team, and NO DD's on the other team.

[Bland_42]

10 minuti fa, SmegTheNoob ha scritto:

Pretty sure nations of ships is not taken into account by the matchmaker.

They cannot even take into account cruisers with radar, because you can get 1 team with radar ships and the other with no radar ships.

Hell, even the recent tier 5 brawls, had the matchmaker putting 2 DD's on one team, and NO DD's on the other team.

 

Quoting Sera here, line 5 of the post:

 

 

[SmegTheNoob]

7 minutes ago, Bland_42 said:

 

Quoting Sera here, line 5 of the post:

 

 

I think Seraphice is wrong when he said "wherever possible, mirrored by nation".

Just look at any screen shots in this thread of team make up.

EG, you don't see a Russian Serov CV on one team, and a Serov on the other.

You see another nations CV on the other team.

The nations are not matched.