Matchmaker Discussion Thread & MM Balance

[RuruushuVuiBuritania]

20 minutes ago, MacFergus said:

Remember people who lose all the time are going to leave the game unless they play for fun or are just casual players who don't spend money.
 

WG are very capable of fixing the MM they have all the tools to do it and the reasons why however until a whistle blower comes forward and confirms that this is the case which I would have expected by now after like 10 years I will hold judgement back and wait and see.

You say that, but we have so many people below 48% winrate with tens of thousands of games. Unicums are (and should) only really be counted by solo winrate, which is the closest thing to a skill measurement you can find. If you can be a unicum in this matchmaking, you are a damn good player. The fact that there has not been a whistleblower despite Chief Windbag EarlGrey having left years ago and with more than enough motivation to reveal the entire thing, shows you that there is 99% surely not a rigging system. The matchmaker is truly random. Nothing is certain. There is no need to rig it when a lot of bad players rig the matchmaker for everyone else simply by playing. Unicums do not care, their skill will always shine through and deliver a good result for them.
 

I think people would complain a lot less about the matchmaker if there were proper tutorials for all the mechanics in the game and players were conscious and realistic of their own impact per battle instead of blaming everyone else.

[ColonelPete]

23 minutes ago, MacFergus said:

If MM was rigged this is the reason why it would be imo.

 

WG need a certain percentage of players to hit a threshold within the game to prove to players that hitting a high WR goal is achievable if not they would suffer in premium sales and premium time sales and a loss of the player-base this would be reason why games can be a total shut-out the outcome is virtually decided before you enter the battle , This keeps the percentage of Unicon's at a certain level thus disproving the fact that WG own mechanics are skewed to drag you down to a 50% WR and giving hope to players that they too can achieve this goal thus they stay in the game longer and spend more money.

 

Remember people who lose all the time are going to leave the game unless they play for fun or are just casual players who don't spend money.

And still we have hordes of really bad players and this thread is full of people complaining they lose "all the time".

Obviously WG is not doing what you claim they are doing...

[_JustDodge]

1 hour ago, ColonelPete said:

And still we have hordes of really bad players and this thread is full of people complaining they lose "all the time".

Obviously WG is not doing what you claim they are doing...

Because those people work hard for they reverse-unicum status (am I allowed to use WGs term for them?).

 

And even if WG would try to fix their WR through rigged MM, they still would have bad average KD/damage/every other stat. WG simply cannot handout skill or basic game understanding (at least not until we get tutorials).

[MacFergus]

2 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

And still we have hordes of really bad players and this thread is full of people complaining they lose "all the time".

Obviously WG is not doing what you claim they are doing...

I admire your blind faith in a company with a dubious reputation to say the least.

 

I suppose the Christmas crates in 2020 weren't rigged either it was just a big misunderstanding and lack of communication on WG part.

 

They say a leopard never changes it spots.

2 hours ago, RuruushuVuiBuritania said:

99% surely not a rigging system. The matchmaker is truly random. Nothing is certain. There is no need to rig it when a lot of bad players rig the matchmaker for everyone else simply by playing. Unicums do not care, their skill will always shine through and deliver a good result for them.

I don't dispute that at all like I said you can understand why people feel the way they do see my answer to Pete above.

 

 

[ColonelPete]

2 minutes ago, MacFergus said:

I admire your blind faith in a company with a dubious reputation to say the least.

 

I suppose the Christmas crates in 2020 weren't rigged either it was just a big misunderstanding and lack of communication on WG part.

 

They say a leopard never changes it spots.

I don't dispute that at all like I said you can understand why people feel the way they do see my answer to Pete above.

That has nothing to do with blind faith or past actions.

 

The winrates of players are facts.

[RuruushuVuiBuritania]

9 minutes ago, MacFergus said:

I admire your blind faith in a company with a dubious reputation to say the least.

 

I suppose the Christmas crates in 2020 weren't rigged either it was just a big misunderstanding and lack of communication on WG part.

 

They say a leopard never changes it spots.

I don't dispute that at all like I said you can understand why people feel the way they do see my answer to Pete above.

 

 

Technically the 2020 Christmas crates were not rigged. They just did not announce the shortlist, which they had done all previous years and no one complained about until they failed to conveniently supply information that was vital to know. So it was a (probably deliberate) miscommunication. Solution: Release drop rates and make big crates more appetizing. Result: I assume the profit margin was even greater in 2021 than in the years before, considering people got that grain of trust from the drop rates and more expensive crates were more advantageous per unit of currency. Putting Forrest Sherman into crates before releasing it for coal shows that one should never trust WG, but nor should one make up accusations on the spot. Leave that to morally bankrupt streamers and YouTubers squabbling for clicks. Also you are dodging the matchmaker question. If people would actually know how it works and how the game works, less people would feel that way. It has nothing to do with WG reliability. People have complained even when WG was still doing a great job at WoWs.

[MacFergus]

1 hour ago, ColonelPete said:

That has nothing to do with blind faith or past actions.

 

The winrates of players are facts.

What you going to show me a spreadsheet?.

 

You know nothing about WG and yet you jump feet first to their defence , Their Shady dealings it seems are fine by you , I have played this game a very long-time I could write a whole list of the dubious decision's WG have made for profit but it seems these are lost on you.

 

Stop being so naïve Pete even you know what I say has a big element of truth to it of course debating with you is pointless as you never admit to be wrong or even partly wrong.

 

I'm not saying if MM is rigged or not but you have to admit the past history of WG you would not put it past them which gives people cause to point fingers.

[MacFergus]

1 hour ago, RuruushuVuiBuritania said:

Technically the 2020 Christmas crates were not rigged. They just did not announce the shortlist

You mean they tried their luck , FFS they even tried to deny any wrong doing before admitting they were wrong after all the CCs voiced their anger i dont think you can get any clearer that they KNEW what they were doing.

[RuruushuVuiBuritania]

5 minutes ago, MacFergus said:

You mean they tried their luck , FFS they even tried to deny any wrong doing before admitting they were wrong after all the CCs voiced their anger i dont think you can get any clearer that they KNEW what they were doing.

That... is exactly what I said? Directly after where you cut off, so I don't hope you just stopped reading there. WG tried something scummy, got caught, then made people fall for it by being more transparent.

[ColonelPete]

6 minutes ago, MacFergus said:

What you going to show me a spreadsheet?.

 

You know nothing about WG and yet you jump feet first to their defence , Their Shady dealings it seems are fine by you , I have played this game a very long-time I could write a whole list of the dubious decision's WG have made for profit but it seems these are lost on you.

 

Stop being so naïve Pete even you know what I say has a big element of truth to it of course debating with you is pointless as you never admit to be wrong or even partly wrong.

 

I'm not saying if MM is rigged or not but you have to admit the past history of WG you would not put it past them which gives people cause to point fingers.

There is no need for a spreadsheet. This thread alone disproves your theory.

 

We are discussing the MM here. When you want to discuss other stuff, open another thread. And I know enough to not make up theories that get disproven by player testimonies.

 

If I were naive, I would believe stuff people make up. Does not look like it...

 

So you are attacking me for not believing something you do not believe yourself?

[MacFergus]

5 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

There is no need for a spreadsheet. This thread alone disproves your theory.

 

We are discussing the MM here. When you want to discuss other stuff, open another thread. And I know enough to not make up theories that get disproven by player testimonies.

 

If I were naive, I would believe stuff people make up. Does not look like it...

 

So you are attacking me for not believing something you do not believe yourself?

I open to the theory you wont even entertain any theory that's why we differ you are convinced 100% that WG can do no wrong but as we have seen in the past real evidence not made up theory's that WG can and have been dis-honest with their customers and here you are saying that they have NEVER tinkered with MM seems naïve to me.

 

And its not the case I do not believe it but their is no evidence to suggest that they have , The point I'm making is they don't hold very good track record when it comes honesty which of course gives credence to players to point fingers.

[ColonelPete]

15 minutes ago, MacFergus said:

I open to the theory you wont even entertain any theory that's why we differ you are convinced 100% that WG can do no wrong but as we have seen in the past real evidence not made up theory's that WG can and have been dis-honest with their customers and here you are saying that they have NEVER tinkered with MM seems naïve to me.

 

And its not the case I do not believe it but their is no evidence to suggest that they have , The point I'm making is they don't hold very good track record when it comes honesty which of course gives credence to players to point fingers.

I am not open to theories that are instantly proven wrong. And no, I never claimed that WG can do no wrong. Making stuff up seems to be your problem and prevents you from drawing logical conclusions.

 

So you do believe they are rigging the MM, but you are not saying that they are rigging the MM? This probably makes only sense in a make-believe-world.

[Ew0kman]

On 2/6/2022 at 8:45 PM, Bear__Necessities said:

Right... so, why do players still manage really good win rates, playing solo and in tech line ships.... Kinda disproves all your tin foil hat thoughts in one. 

it is an illusion that WG maintain to make you believe that,  WG makes sure that your stats is around the 50% mark, but in reality thay are not,   please explain how i can loos 30 games in a row and still maintain a subdesent score?  the game is rigged and WG changes the game while playing,    like suddenly  your guns stop firing, or even worse they dont but you dont do any damage, i had a game today where  at close range i put 8 torps from schliffen in petropavlovsk and they didnt even scratch his paint.   or if you know yamato you know that she is a citadel frenzy, you just have to hit her side to get a cita, but suddendly that was changed and no cita was possible anymore in that game.  i wish they didnt do that it takes the fun out of the game.

 

yes the game is Rigged bigtime.but as they say its only a multimillion dollar game designed for making money to its oligark owner. so you know.

[ColonelPete]

29 minutes ago, kenalb said:

it is an illusion that WG maintain to make you believe that,  WG makes sure that your stats is around the 50% mark, but in reality thay are not,   please explain how i can loos 30 games in a row and still maintain a subdesent score?  the game is rigged and WG changes the game while playing,    like suddenly  your guns stop firing, or even worse they dont but you dont do any damage, i had a game today where  at close range i put 8 torps from schliffen in petropavlovsk and they didnt even scratch his paint.   or if you know yamato you know that she is a citadel frenzy, you just have to hit her side to get a cita, but suddendly that was changed and no cita was possible anymore in that game.  i wish they didnt do that it takes the fun out of the game.

 

yes the game is Rigged bigtime.but as they say its only a multimillion dollar game designed for making money to its oligark owner. so you know.

But not everyone has stats around the 50% mark, only around 2/3 of the playerbase ends up between 45 and 55%. That is what one would expect statisticly.

And when you lose 30 matches in a row, it is because you are special and do not know what you are doing. Your examples makes that fairly obvious.

 

[Zerberus76]

Wow, with all of thesse conspiracy theories, it´s astonishing that tinfoil isn´t worth it´s weight in gold , the supply must be running out somewhere.

Some of us /you should just be glad they don´t have a large enough playerbase to implement actual skill based matchmaking with for ex. an ELO score, because then the whining would really start when people are regularly confronted with cold, hard numbers that empirically prove that they really are that bad... half of you would slit your own throats in despair

[MacFergus]

2 hours ago, Zerberus76 said:

Wow, with all of thesse conspiracy theories

Well we do know one thing that rings true and that is WG are dis-honest , Misleading and use shady business practices is it any wonder people speculate , Of course if you have any information to the contrary I would love to hear it. or are you another who just take WG word on the matter given their track record.

 

I saw an article on this type of behaviour in games called the coin flipping theory , Basically if you flip a coin 10 times the chances it lands on the same side 10 times in a row is 1-1034 and yet people go on these sort of losing or winning streaks daily surly the odds of them losing 10 games in a row are extremely rare but apparently not that alone should ring alarm bells.

 

That not enough for you then take a coin out and try and flip it 5 times in a row.

[Zerberus76]

Vor 1 Stunde, MacFergus sagte:

Well we do know one thing that rings true and that is WG are dis-honest , Misleading and use shady business practices is it any wonder people speculate , Of course if you have any information to the contrary I would love to hear it. or are you another who just take WG word on the matter given their track record.

 

I saw an article on this type of behaviour in games called the coin flipping theory , Basically if you flip a coin 10 times the chances it lands on the same side 10 times in a row is 1-1034 and yet people go on these sort of losing or winning streaks daily surly the odds of them losing 10 games in a row are extremely rare but apparently not that alone should ring alarm bells.

 

That not enough for you then take a coin out and try and flip it 5 times in a row.

I understand probability quite well, but thank you for the level 1 refresher. 

I also understand the inherent difficulties of coding a truly fair matchmaking system for what amounts to a large handful of completely random players.  The fact is that what a lot of people are asking for would be hard to properly realize with a playerbase 5-10x the size of the current one.   This is not a game with millions of players, with hundreds of thousandy concurrently online.  If the logout screen is to be believed (and I do, because if one were to doctor that number it would normally be upwards to give teh impression that the game is actually massively popular and not just "ho hum a few people actually play this"), then generally there are significantly less than 20K players online at any given time (eu), and most importantly not all of them are actively searching for Match type X at tier Y, and that´s where the problem in skill based matchmaking lies, the wait times for some would remain comparatively low, while some would be lucky to be able to find enough teammates and opponents to play 1 match an hour.

And, just for the record, people have winning streaks all the time in randomized games, not just here.  Nor is here the only place that they consistently assume that everything is rigged specifically against them when they don´t have one.  But that doesn´t make it true.

For example, there are countless cases over the years of people winning the lottery multiple times back to back, the astronomical odds of which make betting on having a winning or losing streak in any video game seem like a sure thing in comparison.   But it still happens... so, does that mean all lotteries must be rigged, too?

Either way,  your implication /assumption that Wargaming is always lying no matter what they do is just as preposterous as someone blindly white knighting for, well,  anything. And the mere fact that you are already implying that I am defending them, even though I have done nothing of the sort shows your true motivations. YOU don´t want the truth, you only want to be agreed with and hopefully proven to be right.

That´s unfortunately not how the real world works, nor is it an intellectual level I´m willing to sink to, sorry.

[ColonelPete]

8 hours ago, MacFergus said:

Well we do know one thing that rings true and that is WG are dis-honest , Misleading and use shady business practices is it any wonder people speculate , Of course if you have any information to the contrary I would love to hear it. or are you another who just take WG word on the matter given their track record.

 

I saw an article on this type of behaviour in games called the coin flipping theory , Basically if you flip a coin 10 times the chances it lands on the same side 10 times in a row is 1-1034 and yet people go on these sort of losing or winning streaks daily surly the odds of them losing 10 games in a row are extremely rare but apparently not that alone should ring alarm bells.

 

That not enough for you then take a coin out and try and flip it 5 times in a row.

First of all, according to your theory, people who lose a lot leave the game. Now you speculate that WG is prolonging such losing streaks?

19 hours ago, MacFergus said:

Remember people who lose all the time are going to leave the game unless they play for fun or are just casual players who don't spend money.

Does WG want to lose players?

 

Second, I know of no player who has such streaks daily. Yes, different players have these streaks, but that is to be expected with 20.000+ players on the EU server per day.

Thirdly, there is a trend that players that have these streaks are below 50% winrating, which means their chances to experiencing this are increased. It also does not help that many of these players spam the battle button. The more you lose, the more frustrated you get, the worse you play, increasing your chances to lose even further.

 

 

[Bear__Necessities]

19 hours ago, kenalb said:

it is an illusion that WG maintain to make you believe that,  WG makes sure that your stats is around the 50% mark, but in reality thay are not,   please explain how i can loos 30 games in a row and still maintain a subdesent score?  the game is rigged and WG changes the game while playing,    like suddenly  your guns stop firing, or even worse they dont but you dont do any damage, i had a game today where  at close range i put 8 torps from schliffen in petropavlovsk and they didnt even scratch his paint.   or if you know yamato you know that she is a citadel frenzy, you just have to hit her side to get a cita, but suddendly that was changed and no cita was possible anymore in that game.  i wish they didnt do that it takes the fun out of the game.

 

yes the game is Rigged bigtime.but as they say its only a multimillion dollar game designed for making money to its oligark owner. so you know.

Hahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahaha 

 

Ohhh wait. You're being serious?

 

Hahahahahahahaha.

 

Just look at all this lossing I'm suffering currently on NA. Wow. They are REALLY hammering down to 50% here...

 

https://na.wows-numbers.com/player/1036458028,Vasili_One_Bonk_only/

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Aethervoxx]

On 2/14/2022 at 6:15 AM, ColonelPete said:

The winrates of players are facts.

Bogus facts as the MM gives bogus results but then ....

On 2/14/2022 at 7:50 AM, ColonelPete said:

We are discussing the MM here.

We sure are ....

 

On 2/14/2022 at 8:10 AM, MacFergus said:

I open to the theory you wont even entertain any theory that's why we differ you are convinced 100% that WG can do no wrong but as we have seen in the past real evidence not made up theory's that WG can and have been dis-honest with their customers and here you are saying that they have NEVER tinkered with MM seems naïve to me.

 

And its not the case I do not believe it but their is no evidence to suggest that they have , The point I'm making is they don't hold very good track record when it comes honesty which of course gives credence to players to point fingers.

The circumstantial evidence that the MM, amongst other factors, is dishonest & 'arranges' results is very convincing to me. I'd even go so far as to say ...

 

On 2/14/2022 at 10:17 AM, kenalb said:

yes the game is Rigged bigtime.but as they say its only a multimillion dollar game designed for making money to its oligark owner. so you know.

The stink from the WG turd pile is getting stronger with every patch 'dump'.

[ColonelPete]

1 hour ago, Aethervoxx said:

Bogus facts as the MM gives bogus results but then ....

Why do you even try?  

Feel free to show us one good player with a bad solo winrate. One.

[anonym_ntfKigmJ0k9e]

"Basically if you flip a coin 10 times the chances it lands on the same side 10 times in a row is 1-1034 and yet people go on these sort of losing or winning streaks daily surly the odds of them losing 10 games in a row are extremely rare "

 

I've lost last night 11 games in a row. It was very predictable in Monitor, mostly total potato red teams vs. very good players, all green or blue. Divisions included. I wasn't surprised at all. In one game my team even managed to lost 2 BBs in less then a minute.  In such games you can exit to port even before the start.

 

Yes, MM is so random...  

[anonym_ntfKigmJ0k9e]

And losing 30 games in a row in Ranked battles because of silly, laughable, un-even teams win rates, with absolutely zero chances to win, it's also random... Lots of random stuff here... Must be a hell of a code.  

 

I don't know why people arque this any more, everybody can install Monitor and see what is going on. If you over a few thousand battles get 44% average win chance teams vs. 55% that's not random.   

[GarrusBrutus]

5 minutes ago, SEA_TRAKTOR said:

"Basically if you flip a coin 10 times the chances it lands on the same side 10 times in a row is 1-1034 and yet people go on these sort of losing or winning streaks daily surly the odds of them losing 10 games in a row are extremely rare "

 

I've lost last night 11 games in a row. It was very predictable in Monitor, mostly total potato red teams vs. very good players, all green or blue. Divisions included. I wasn't surprised at all. In one game my team even managed to lost 2 BBs in less then a minute.  In such games you can exit to port even before the start.

 

Yes, MM is so random...  

1 minute ago, SEA_TRAKTOR said:

And losing 30 games in a row in Ranked battles because of silly, laughable, un-even teams win rates, with absolutely zero chances to win, it's also random... Lots of random stuff here... Must be a hell of a code.  

 

I don't know why people arque this any more, everybody can install Monitor and see what is going on. If you over a few thousand battles get 44% average win chance teams vs. 55% that's not random.   

For every loser there must be a winner.

 

My ranked run last night:

[anonym_ntfKigmJ0k9e]

1 minute ago, GarrusBrutus said:

For every loser there must be a winner.

 

Of course. Enjoy your gratuitous "wins". I mean why not, it's like a lottery. Suckers suck and winners celebrate.