Matchmaker Discussion Thread & MM Balance

[principat121]

6 minutes ago, The_Angry_Admiral said:

Well since my +2 / -2 thread was closed because there is already a MM discussion thread I thought I would put this here.

 

I think we can all agree that +1/-1 matches are simply better and seem to highlight a resemblance of how the game is supposed to work. 

 

It seems that when you have +2/-2 all that goes out the window to the point where ships that were designed to do one thing have to end up doing something else in order to survive (AKA BB's).

 

What is the motive for +2/-2 matchmaking to still exist? Does +1/-1 matchmaking fix the game no it doesn't but it makes it a lot better than with +2/-2. 

 

It obviously causes the game to fall apart so I can't see why it still exists. 

 

Did you even read any of the answer you got?

No, it just seems that you are not interested in any kind of a discussion but rather want to see your (of course "right") point of view confirmed.

 

You got many arguments pointing out the drawbacks of your statement, but you ignored all!

 

Why?

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

On 10/28/2021 at 3:07 PM, PrinzSiegfried said:

I see that everyone who does agree with a peasant mob is treated like a troll or enemy. This place is dominated with the caste of VIPs and crying individuals.

Guy who has 300-400 PR doesn't know how to play the CV. If you don't know how to play CV, you don't know how to make one frustrated... 

Paxton also had zero games on a CV. 

 

If you don't like CV or submarines you can avoid game modes with it and play in a training room. Maybe this is a best place for you, maybe you will feel safe there. 

 

If must be that kind of players that only care about their PR being violet and maxing damage. Because everything that interrupts it is bad or even pure evil. From my perspective game without them would be boring, like a fixed scheme... and for many other players too. You are a minority that only barks loud... otherwise WG would care about it.

 

And to be honest, I began to feel satisfaction with the fact that you are annoyed just because someone is not upset by aircraft carriers and submarines.

Is your life so sad that being outstanding in a computer game is so important? Because for me the fun of playing is more important and I am able to pay for it. Again... like many other players... 

 

Go ahead, keep boosting your fragile ego. 

Is asked to explain how AA works after insinuating it knows how AA works. 

[Bear__Necessities]

2 hours ago, The_Angry_Admiral said:

I think we can all agree that +1/-1 matches are simply better

Nope. You don't speak for us at all.

 

2 hours ago, The_Angry_Admiral said:

It seems that when you have +2/-2 all that goes out the window to the point where ships that were designed to do one thing have to end up doing something else in order to survive (AKA BB's).

Nope. If you had experience and skill you'd see your wrong. But you've neither currently.

 

2 hours ago, The_Angry_Admiral said:

What is the motive for +2/-2 matchmaking to still exist?

Challenge, better rewards for the risk and the big one, to help reduce waiting times. It's an arcade game. Nobody wants to wait ages because a few moany players can adapt like everyone else. You've already been told this. 

 

2 hours ago, The_Angry_Admiral said:

It obviously causes the game to fall apart

It's falling apart so much player numbers are staying stable like they have done for 6 years now....

[Molly_Delaney]

+2/-2 is good because:

when I'm top tier I can play more aggressively and try stuff which I couldn't otherwise because: my weapons are a bit better, my armour is a bit better and my stealth is a bit better.

When I'm bottom tier I have to play more cautiously which is a whole different play style; more sneaky and planned than 'full speed ahead and damn the torpedoes'.

All same tier is more like a traditional naval encounter.

 

It's almost like 3 different games in one and you never know which you're getting until the team list appears....

 

Co-op is just a bit of relaxing 'blow stuff up' fun......

 

 

Basically what I said in the other thread....

@The_Angry_Admiral when a large amount of forumites are telling you the same thing you might want to listen as it helps you 'get gud'......

[The_Angry_Admiral]

55 minutes ago, Molly_Delaney said:

+2/-2 is good because:

when I'm top tier I can play more aggressively and try stuff which I couldn't otherwise because: my weapons are a bit better, my armour is a bit better and my stealth is a bit better.

When I'm bottom tier I have to play more cautiously which is a whole different play style; more sneaky and planned than 'full speed ahead and damn the torpedoes'.

All same tier is more like a traditional naval encounter.

 

It's almost like 3 different games in one and you never know which you're getting until the team list appears....

 

Co-op is just a bit of relaxing 'blow stuff up' fun......

 

 

Basically what I said in the other thread....

@The_Angry_Admiral when a large amount of forumites are telling you the same thing you might want to listen as it helps you 'get gud'......

But there are a lot of forumites who disagree with you. Had you read the whole thread you would know that so stop with that Get Good BS. 

 

Also spell it correctly F F S. 

[Molly_Delaney]

11 minutes ago, The_Angry_Admiral said:

But there are a lot of forumites who disagree with you.

I expect there are.

Which is why I never said 'everyone agrees with me'

 

People have different opinions, which is good.

But, too many people always claim 'Everyone agrees with me' when they clearly don't......

 

Some people like +2/-2 matchmaking, some don't.

Some people would like to try a T2 Smith with Benham torps against T10.... could be very bad or could be hysterically funny.....

[anonym_ntfKigmJ0k9e]

300 pages of this discussion thread tell you everything you need about MM balance.

 

In short: it's not balanced and it's not random. 

[Dutchy_2019]

9 hours ago, The_Angry_Admiral said:

But there are a lot of forumites who disagree with you. Had you read the whole thread you would know that so stop with that Get Good BS. 

 

Also spell it correctly F F S. 

 

Funny - it is you who started with the "We can all agree that..." blanket statement (implying you are speaking for everyone else), NOT anybody else. Also the sheer arrogance of YOU telling people to spell things correctly when you ought to realize that the vast majority of people on these forums is NOT a native English speaker (and based on your semi-applicable post / quote of Irish consumer law in a different thread, I assume you are a native English speaker).

 

It also is VERY telling you are seemingly not aware of the 'Git Gud' - meme well established within the WG community, which is based on a response by WG to complaints by the vast majority of the active WG community (forums, Reddit, etc) concerning clear issues with game mechanics (say for instance the old CV vs DD interaction post Rework). His comment could well refer to that meme.

 

Back to the +2/-2 MM issue:

 

• For queue waiting times +2/-2 MM is better
• In many ships it is quite doable, but a challenge. So part of mitigating the problems when being bottom tier in +2 MM is practice and adapting your playstyle. Just accept that you might not be able to pull off as easily what you normally do.
• When facing +2 MM you are actually rewarded by extra XP (and credits and such) when doing damage to higher tier subs.

Some of the issues mentioned - like getting chunked by SAP shells are the result of two things:

 

• There in general is a jump in power of the ships from T8 to T9
• General power creep
• SAP chunking can and will happen in just about every tier. That is the problem of SAP at ALL tiers.

 

 

 

 

 

[ColonelPete]

3 hours ago, SEA_TRAKTOR said:

300 pages of this discussion thread tell you everything you need about MM balance.

 

In short: it's not balanced and it's not random. 

So the MM knows which players will drop because of bad connection during the game, who gets distracted by a dog, has an urgent phone call or any other reason to play worse than usual? Interesting...

I am suprised that WG does not dominate all stock exchanges worldwide with such a prophetic algorithm. That is world domination in under a year.

[Ronchabale]

On 10/14/2021 at 9:37 PM, Darkeid said:

Matching a CV that has 192 battles and below 300PR with a CV that has 5k battles and 1000* (or 2000* + in case of unicum) has nothing to do with mechanics or maps.

Matching the same CV with 3 bad rating DDs only produces a hugely imbalanced team and again it has nothing to do with mechanics or maps.

The MM needs to be improved and players should be distributed equally / fairly . Rewards need to be modified according to player account stats. Unicums should gain more when fighting against unicums. Scrubs should have to work harder to gain the same rewards.

 

The MM is rubbish, it doesn´t care about player skill/experience at all

A team of total noobs vs a team of seasoned players, ship-wise it may look pretty fair but looking at the total amount of games and experience the teams have it differs a lot, one team may have an average of like 500 games while the other team has an average of 5000 games, it doesn´t automatically mean that 500 game players are rubbish and the 5k player are experts but that the experienced team will win in like 90% of these games 

 

The random(ness) of the thing is that a total noob/clown can end up in the better team and thus get a win that way even a beginner/noob/rubbish player can have a 30-40% winrate

 

And yes, a rubbish CV on your team vs a good CV on the other team and u have a massive disadvantage no matter how good the rest of your team is

[Ronchabale]

1 hour ago, Ronchabale said:

And yes, a rubbish CV on your team vs a good CV on the other team and u have a massive disadvantage no matter how good the rest of your team is

Quoting myself..

 

This goes for submarines too 

[The_Angry_Admiral]

16 hours ago, Ronchabale said:

 

And yes, a rubbish CV on your team vs a good CV on the other team and u have a massive disadvantage no matter how good the rest of your team is

Mmmmmm I don't think CV's carry "that" much weight. 

[ollonborre]

2 minutes ago, The_Angry_Admiral said:

Mmmmmm I don't think CV's carry "that" much weight. 

They do, or you have not faced enough CV's. CV's provide near infinite spotting, risk free damage and harassment, being able to strike anywhere on the map ignoring cover and map design (this sounds familiar), being able to finish off targets that are otherwise out of your teams reach and providing tons of burst damage and leaving ships left without damage control and heals.

 

CV's are the single most influential class in the game, even more so than DD's I would argue, and this is just further reinforced when one of the CV's is competent and the other a potato. 

[Bear__Necessities]

2 hours ago, The_Angry_Admiral said:

Mmmmmm I don't think CV's carry "that" much weight. 

Of course you don't. But they do. They are the most Influential class in the game with DD's being next. 

[Pukovnik7]

11 hours ago, The_Angry_Admiral said:

Mmmmmm I don't think CV's carry "that" much weight. 

Yeah, they do. A good CV will:

• eliminate destroyers from the match by either killing or permaspotting them from the beginning (thus allowing other ships to kill them)
• significantly reduce effectiveness of battleships by reducing their health pool (either by direct damage or by spotting them and causing them to take damage before getting to cover) and by preventing them from properly tanking (by making them stay at speed to avoid attacks)
• significantly reduce effectiveness of cruisers by making them vulnerable to being devstruck before getting to cover (same problem as battleships, but much worse due to cruisers being much flimsier) and by preventing them from properly utilizing said cover

And keep in mind that destroyers are literally the most important class in the game, barring CVs. The class that is least affected by the CVs - battleships - is the least important class in terms of winning a game.

 

So yeah, you don't think that CVs carry that much weight. You are wrong. CVs significantly reduce the impact of all other classes on the game's outcome, and also ruin the game experience for everybody not in a CV or a submarine.

 

Submarines BTW have many of the above problems as well, though to a different extent.

[Camperdown]

21 hours ago, The_Angry_Admiral said:

Mmmmmm I don't think CV's carry "that" much weight. 

The only reason you might reasonably think that is because so many CV jockeys are potatoes. So if your CV and the enemy one are both potatoes, they may not carry that much weight. But if even one of the CVs is competent, it does carry that much weight.

[Pukovnik7]

19 minutes ago, Camperdown said:

The only reason you might reasonably think that is because so many CV jockeys are potatoes. So if your CV and the enemy one are both potatoes, they may not carry that much weight. But if even one of the CVs is competent, it does carry that much weight.

Actually, even a potato CV has a lot of game impact, simply through accidental spotting.

[Bear__Necessities]

11 hours ago, Pukovnik7 said:

Yeah, they do. A good CV will:

• eliminate destroyers from the match by either killing or permaspotting them from the beginning (thus allowing other ships to kill them)
• significantly reduce effectiveness of battleships by reducing their health pool (either by direct damage or by spotting them and causing them to take damage before getting to cover) and by preventing them from properly tanking (by making them stay at speed to avoid attacks)
• significantly reduce effectiveness of cruisers by making them vulnerable to being devstruck before getting to cover (same problem as battleships, but much worse due to cruisers being much flimsier) and by preventing them from properly utilizing said cover

And keep in mind that destroyers are literally the most important class in the game, barring CVs. The class that is least affected by the CVs - battleships - is the least important class in terms of winning a game.

 

So yeah, you don't think that CVs carry that much weight. You are wrong. CVs significantly reduce the impact of all other classes on the game's outcome, and also ruin the game experience for everybody not in a CV or a submarine.

 

Submarines BTW have many of the above problems as well, though to a different extent.

You are speaking to much sense. You need to take the sensible text down a notch or 2 so it's a level they can understand.

 

[Aethervoxx]

I decide to play a random battle & what I get subjected to was nothing but a blatant targeting CHEAT.

A 0 - 9 sick joke MM. Battle ended with a mercy time out.  4 silver ranked players to just 1. Oh sure, that was random.

 

[Bear__Necessities]

6 minutes ago, Aethervoxx said:

I decide to play a random battle & what I get subjected to was nothing but a blatant targeting CHEAT.

A 0 - 9 sick joke MM. Battle ended with a mercy time out.  4 silver ranked players to just 1. Oh sure, that was random.

 

We ALL get wins and losses like that. Which makes it.... Wait for it.... RANDOM. 

[tsounts]

What's with all the players with over 15k battles and sub 45% winrate this morning? Is this a joke? 

[Camperdown]

19 minutes ago, tsounts said:

What's with all the players with over 15k battles and sub 45% winrate this morning? Is this a joke? 

Meet WGs favourite customers 

[Molly_Delaney]

31 minutes ago, tsounts said:

What's with all the players with over 15k battles and sub 45% winrate this morning? Is this a joke? 

I had a demonstration of how this happens last night....

My cousin: I don't want to read the controls, just fly....

(he'd just installed world of warplanes)

Me: do you know what fires the guns?

Him: no....

 

 

 

[Sadism]

This thread started in 2019. When you going to actually do something about it ? Last game 5 DD's and a Sub on each side. Do you remember a game called World of Warships. Pity they closed it down.

[ColonelPete]

37 minutes ago, Sadism said:

This thread started in 2019. When you going to actually do something about it ? Last game 5 DD's and a Sub on each side. Do you remember a game called World of Warships. Pity they closed it down.

WG cannot help you with your inability to recognize warships...