Matchmaker Discussion Thread & MM Balance

[mariouus]

So.

 

There is no reason for any company do give you Random streaks. Or make you loose by design

 

So anybody trying do claim that they have bad consistent WR becuse WG screwing-them over - could be easily disregarded.

 

Why, because there is nothing do gain - business wise. Why should the bother? 

 

Slightly changing some stats - do temp or frustrating you into buying something. Would hardly be gamebraking. Even having worse Dispersion or fire chance or what ever, than you used do, could frustrate you - but it will not change the performance enought do make you consistently loose. Changes big enought to do so, would be easily noticed.

 

Do I think WG is "tampering" with certain aspects of the game. Sure - if there is possibility of making some money - why should they not? More or less everybody is doing it. 

 

However they would not bother with something that does not have monetary potential.

 

So before making a post like "I loose (or what ever) because WG screws me over". You should really ask from you self - is there any monetary reason for that. If there isnt, then they probably arent.

 

 

 

[GarrusBrutus]

30 minutes ago, mariouus said:

So before making a post like "I loose (or what ever) because WG screws me over". You should really ask from you self - is there any monetary reason for that. If there isnt, then they probably arent.

But then they have to face the fact that they're not very good at the game rather than blaming cheaters and/or the matchmaking for their failures. Ain't gonna happen. 

[CptMinia]

Hello,

          Topic cleaned up, I'll ask folks to remain respectful and civilised to eachother. 

 

Regards,

               Minia

[ColonelPete]

Spoiler

 

Team WR difference around 0.7% and still a wipe in 8:12 minutes. And so much for the good players are only on one side....

[KHETTIFER]

6 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Team WR difference around 0.7% and still a wipe in 8:12 minutes. And so much for the good players are only on one side....

ahem, sample size is to small, irrelevant example.

An attempt to wave your peanut about no doubt, no-one is remotely impressed.

[ColonelPete]

11 minutes ago, KHETTIFER said:

ahem, sample size is to small, irrelevant example.

An attempt to wave your peanut about no doubt, no-one is remotely impressed.

And the other selected screenshots are relevant?

[Steph_37210]

This is an ever lasting topic but I am still struggling when I see a battle finished in less than 10 mins where there is a disproportiionate difference in the experience obtained from each team (basically the best of the loosing team is at the level of the last of the winning team).  Wargaming you still have some work to do to improve your matchmaking and please stop making excuses as you do with the answers you give to players complaining about battle matching.  Find a way to trully improve your game.  The example below is a fiasco to say the least.

[anonym_cwVecOS6ecVy]

2 minutes ago, Steph_37210 said:

This is an ever lasting topic but I am still struggling when I see a battle finished in less than 10 mins where there is a disproportiionate difference in the experience obtained from each team (basically the best of the loosing team is at the level of the last of the winning team).

If the team with more unicums has a handful of suicide bots, they will get stomped most of the times anyways, since the full enemy team has less targets to shoot at. Power concentration. Landslide. Steamroll. Sub 10 minutes games.

[Steph_37210]

Wargaming next battle, 6 mins and these is the matchmaking:

 

So the result, I am stopping tonigh.  Enough is enough and very disppointed by what I see.  You do not put the level of players in your algorithm as you say all the time.  Sorry but this is the sign of amateurism.

Continue like that and you will continue to loose experience players.....
 

[Pukovnik7]

12 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

  Hide contents

 

Team WR difference around 0.7% and still a wipe in 8:12 minutes. And so much for the good players are only on one side....

Right-hand team however had four red WR ships. If these died quickly, then a team where WR was averaged across more ships will win due to the Lancaster square law: 12 vs 12 becomes 12 vs 8, which means that each ship on a smaller team is receiving up to 150% of damage per ship and dealing 67% of damage per ship, which means that larger team actually has 124% advantage in damage exchange rate (that is, 224% vs 100%). Of course, this is an extremely simplified calculation (for one, it assumes all ships are dealing and can receive same damage), but it does show a major problem with one side's ships dying quickly. Those four unicums simply cannot carry the team in such conditions.

 

That being said, I do not think the issue is solely WR. Above calculation, to hold true, requires at least two major factors: first, the ability of all ships on each team to concentrate fire against much of the enemy team. Second, lack of ability to counter that. This essentially means that it only holds true on open maps. Which means that fixing the game is simple: no need to change the matchmaking, necessarily, just introduce more brawling maps and maps with tall islands for cover.

[ColonelPete]

1 hour ago, Pukovnik7 said:

Right-hand team however had four red WR ships. If these died quickly, then a team where WR was averaged across more ships will win due to the Lancaster square law: 12 vs 12 becomes 12 vs 8, which means that each ship on a smaller team is receiving up to 150% of damage per ship and dealing 67% of damage per ship, which means that larger team actually has 124% advantage in damage exchange rate (that is, 224% vs 100%). Of course, this is an extremely simplified calculation (for one, it assumes all ships are dealing and can receive same damage), but it does show a major problem with one side's ships dying quickly. Those four unicums simply cannot carry the team in such conditions.

 

That being said, I do not think the issue is solely WR. Above calculation, to hold true, requires at least two major factors: first, the ability of all ships on each team to concentrate fire against much of the enemy team. Second, lack of ability to counter that. This essentially means that it only holds true on open maps. Which means that fixing the game is simple: no need to change the matchmaking, necessarily, just introduce more brawling maps and maps with tall islands for cover.

And that is why Skill Based MM will not prevent stomps. I am explaining Lanchester Square Law to people for years, but they do not listen...

 

[neorvo]

4 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

And that is why Skill Based MM will not prevent stomps. I am explaining Lanchester Square Law to people for years, but they do not listen

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanchester's_laws...

 

 

I began to read your link Peter, and well this is the first pearl

 

".... not attack another group unless the numerical advantage is at least a factor of 1.5.^[3]  ...."

 

that seems to be consistent with the cross-fire concept too !!!

 

Thanks @ColonelPete

[Pukovnik7]

On 10/2/2021 at 8:40 AM, ColonelPete said:

And that is why Skill Based MM will not prevent stomps. I am explaining Lanchester Square Law to people for years, but they do not listen...

 

Agreed. Skill-based MM may help, but what needs to be done are the changes to mechanics and, more importantly, maps.

 

Brawling maps make for fun games, and not just because brawling as such is fun.

[Leo_Apollo11]

Hi all,

 

What do you think how this "Ranked Silver" ended?

 

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

[Captain_Hook_]

Did the red team won?

[Aethervoxx]

4 hours ago, Captain_Hook_ said:

Did the red team won?

Yes, the Red team mostly wins. 

[ColonelPete]

4 minutes ago, Aethervoxx said:

Yes, the Red team mostly wins. 

Speak only for yourself.

[Leo_Apollo11]

Hi all,

 

14 hours ago, Captain_Hook_ said:

Did the red team won?

 

No...

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

[Captain_Hook_]

completely unfun :D

[RenfieldSyndrome]

It was very surprising to win this one.

[Captain_Hook_]

3 hours ago, hocamdomdom said:

It was very surprising to win this one.

 

The enemy FdG didnt perform as usual.

[Darkeid]

Pre-determined outcome regardless of player input... again.

[Darkeid]

On 10/3/2021 at 11:37 AM, Pukovnik7 said:

Agreed. Skill-based MM may help, but what needs to be done are the changes to mechanics and, more importantly, maps.

 

Brawling maps make for fun games, and not just because brawling as such is fun.

Matching a CV that has 192 battles and below 300PR with a CV that has 5k battles and 1000* (or 2000* + in case of unicum) has nothing to do with mechanics or maps.

Matching the same CV with 3 bad rating DDs only produces a hugely imbalanced team and again it has nothing to do with mechanics or maps.

The MM needs to be improved and players should be distributed equally / fairly . Rewards need to be modified according to player account stats. Unicums should gain more when fighting against unicums. Scrubs should have to work harder to gain the same rewards.

[Pukovnik7]

57 minutes ago, Darkeid said:

Matching a CV that has 192 battles and below 300PR with a CV that has 5k battles and 1000* (or 2000* + in case of unicum) has nothing to do with mechanics or maps.

Matching the same CV with 3 bad rating DDs only produces a hugely imbalanced team and again it has nothing to do with mechanics or maps.

The MM needs to be improved and players should be distributed equally / fairly . Rewards need to be modified according to player account stats. Unicums should gain more when fighting against unicums. Scrubs should have to work harder to gain the same rewards.

It has everything to do with mechanics - main reason CV matchmaking in particular is a problem is because CVs themselves have far too much game influence, by design.

 

Sure, matchmaking might be improved - I sometimes get the impression that matchmaking is imbalanced by design, rather than by random chance - but I don't have statistics to either prove or disprove that. But as I have pointed out, matchmaking alone will not solve problems. An open map may result in a stomp even if teams are well balanced. So while matchmaking is a major problem, the real issue is in how it interacts with other elements of the game design.

 

It is not just MM that is broken, it is game as a whole.

[ImTryingButYouDontHelp]

Can anybody explain me why TF this is allowed in brawls?  There are enough ships in the queue to NOT MATCH DIVISIONS WITH SINGLE PLAYERS, useless devs  So, at randoms (12 players), you match against enemy divisions.....and in brawls (3 players), YOU DON'T? WTF is this?