Matchmaker Discussion Thread & MM Balance

[geschlittert]

2 minutes ago, Harvin87 said:

Well yea, but what if the MM would operate on let's call them "spectrums" .... a 65%WR will only play with players within certain spectrum, let's say 58% and up. That way the drag wouldn't by any means be too heavy. A 58%wr player is a very solid an experienced one and should be able to carry even when faced with 60-65wr% players any given day. Same goes for Unicum players.

The spectrum could be like this?

 

0 - 45 WR%  

46-50 WR% 

51-57 WR%

58 - ∞ 

  

Would it be too horrible?

 

 

 

If you phase equally skilled players all day your winrate will go towards 50%. Is this too hard to understand? The only real solution would be a proper ranked system (that isnt reset every month) where good players advance further and bad players stay in the lower ranks,

[Harvin87]

1 minuto antes, geschlittert dijo:

If you phase equally skilled players all day your winrate will go towards 50%. Is this too hard to understand? The only real solution would be a proper ranked system (that isnt reset every month) where good players advance further and bad players stay in the lower ranks,

I think that good players would still stand-out and go up regardless. And with a wide spectrum you still have a lot of room for players to evolve.

 

I agree on a proper ranked system tough...

[ColonelPete]

7 minutes ago, Harvin87 said:

Well yea, but what if the MM would operate on let's call them "spectrums" .... a 65%WR will only play with players within certain spectrum, let's say 58% and up. That way the drag wouldn't by any means be too heavy. A 58%wr player is a very solid an experienced one and should be able to carry even when faced with 60-65wr% players any given day. Same goes for Unicum players.

The spectrum could be like this?

 

0 - 45 WR% 

46-50 WR% 

51-57 WR%

58 - ∞

 

Would it be too horrible?

 

 

 

Yes.

1. The queue times for the upper and lower group would be extemly long and even the middle groups would probably wait threetimes as long as now
2. The winrating in all groups would change, putting bad players in a group higher or the worse good players in a group lower

[Harvin87]

Well, that does make sense now... I'll leave this conversation to the pros. 

I'm now illuminated and see the repercutions. 

[geschlittert]

9 minutes ago, Harvin87 said:

I think that good players would still stand-out and go up regardless. And with a wide spectrum you still have a lot of room for players to evolve.

  

I agree on a proper ranked system tough... 

Uhm. What? A good player vs a good player is a 50/50. One game this guy wins ,the other game the other guy wins. I can currently have such a high winrate because i am much better than the average player.

I don't know what's so hard to understand about this. If 58% players only play vs 58% players they will have a 50% winrate.

[GarrusBrutus]

8 minutes ago, Harvin87 said:

Well yea, but what if the MM would operate on let's call them "spectrums" .... a 65%WR will only play with players within certain spectrum, let's say 58% and up. That way the drag wouldn't by any means be too heavy. A 58%wr player is a very solid an experienced one and should be able to carry even when faced with 60-65wr% players any given day. Same goes for Unicum players.

The spectrum could be like this?

 

0 - 45 WR% 

46-50 WR% 

51-57 WR%

58 - ∞

 

Would it be too horrible?

For any singular match? no, it could be quite good actually. With an emphasis on "could". (remember: no respawn and mechanics such as detonations or rng devstrikes can still cause steamrolls, even with perfectly matched teams). For the grand scheme of matchmaking? Yes. 

Why? 

Because players like to have even odds. And by that I mean, everyone gets dealt the same cards. If you're a good player you win more, if you're a bad player you win less. With this system, whichever way you design it, you force the good players to make up for the lesser teammates in order to reach "balanced" games. If a good player just wants to meme about or is tired or uninterested, each team he is on loses by default. Because when creating the teams, the system depended on him to carry hard. 

 

Also, do you take ship winrate or account winrate? And when does winrate become a reliable metric? After 1 game? 10? 10.000? 

[Harvin87]

1 minuto antes, geschlittert dijo:

Uhm. What? A good player vs a good player is a 50/50. One game this guy wins ,the other game the other guy wins. I can currently have such a high winrate because i am much better than the average player.

I don't know what's so hard to understand about this. If 58% players only play vs 58% players they will have a 50% winrate.

 

 

1 minuto antes, GarrusBrutus dijo:

For any singular match? no, it could be quite good actually. With an emphasis on "could". (remember: no respawn and mechanics such as detonations or rng devstrikes can still cause steamrolls, even with perfectly matched teams). For the grand scheme of matchmaking? Yes. 

Why? 

Because players like to have even odds. And by that I mean, everyone gets dealt the same cards. If you're a good player you win more, if you're a bad player you win less. With this system, whichever way you design it, you force the good players to make up for the lesser teammates in order to reach "balanced" games. If a good player just wants to meme about or is tired or uninterested, each team he is on loses by default. Because when creating the teams, the system depended on him to carry hard. 

 

Also, do you take ship winrate or account winrate? And when does winrate become a reliable metric? After 1 game? 10? 10.000? 

 

To answer both of you:

I know that, that's what I suggested the WR spectrum in order to give more room for variety  but as it has been pointed out to me, that system would bring maybe even more trouble as it is flawed as well. Hey, as you can see, if you explain to me something with logic I might say "hey, you are right" , just as I did now :).

 

[geschlittert]

3 minutes ago, Harvin87 said:

 

 

 

To answer both of you:

I know that, that's what I suggested the WR spectrum in order to give more room for variety  but as it has been pointed out to me, that system would bring maybe even more trouble as it is flawed as well. Hey, as you can see, if you explain to me something with logic I might say "hey, you are right" , just as I did now :).

  

I personally like the randomness of random but it would be so nice to have a ranked system where you could see how good you really are (similar to league of legends)

[Harvin87]

1 minuto antes, geschlittert dijo:

I personally like the randomness of random but it would be so nice to have a ranked system where you could see how good you really are (similar to league of legends)

Yes, that would be great. A permament ranked system would be very nice. How would you regulate it? or how do you envision it? 

[geschlittert]

2 minutes ago, Harvin87 said:

Yes, that would be great. A permament ranked system would be very nice. How would you regulate it? or how do you envision it? 

As said, similar to league of legends. You gain points for winning and lose them for losing and there should be promotion and demotion games between leagues. Oh, and a leaderboard is very important to give players motivation!

Obviously it should be T10, no CVs and a certain amount of each ship type per time (maybe 7v7 like current ranked as well with 2 BB, 3 cruisers 3 DDs?)

[Harvin87]

10 minutos antes, geschlittert dijo:

As said, similar to league of legends. You gain points for winning and lose them for losing and there should be promotion and demotion games between leagues. Oh, and a leaderboard is very important to give players motivation!

Obviously it should be T10, no CVs and a certain amount of each ship type per time (maybe 7v7 like current ranked as well with 2 BB, 3 cruisers 3 DDs?)

Sounds nice but I wouldn't leave out the lower tiers... why should it only be T10? 

[geschlittert]

1 minute ago, Harvin87 said:

Sounds nice but I wouldn't leave out the lower tiers... why should it only be T10? 

simple, a lot of the lower tiers are dominated by premium ships. 

Although, if i decided about it, only tech tree ships would be allowed in this mode, nothing else.

[Darkeid]

The last match we just played. @geschlittert do you want me to send you the replay to see what the opposing Minotaur was saying at the start of the match? I can assure you it was nothing of the sort "Oh lets look at how good TheSailingRobin or RNGsama is" poor guy was cursing this broken MM engine.

@assassincr33d care to add your input here?

[geschlittert]

13 minutes ago, Darkeid said:

The last match we just played. @geschlittert do you want me to send you the replay to see what the opposing Minotaur was saying at the start of the match? I can assure you it was nothing of the sort "Oh lets look at how good TheSailingRobin or RNGsama is" poor guy was cursing this broken MM engine.

@assassincr33d care to add your input here? 

Then he has no mental fortitude. I have won matches with worse odds.

[Darkeid]

19 minutes ago, geschlittert said:

Then he has no mental fortitude. I have won matches with worse odds.

 

Oh mighty @geschlittert undo-er of imbalance , have you ever won matches like that as well ?

 

EDIT: Would like to add that the two matches presented are in a row

[geschlittert]

5 minutes ago, Darkeid said:

 

Oh mighty @geschlittert undo-er of imbalance , have you ever won matches like that as well ?

 

EDIT: Would like to add that the two matches presented are in a row

Normally my teams winrate is a bit higher due to me being present but yes, i have overcome differences of 5 percentage points. Rare, but it happens.

 

What's your problem? Didn't i clearly say that there are games that you will lose?

 

You won't improve your winrate by crying around, just saying.

[Darkeid]

22 hours ago, geschlittert said:

Normally my teams winrate is a bit higher due to me being present but yes, i have overcome differences of 5 percentage points. Rare, but it happens.

 

What's your problem? Didn't i clearly say that there are games that you will lose?

I apologize if i misunderstood, the obvious problem in your last post before this, claimed that you have the "mental fortitude" to win such badly drawn matchmaking battles (10 players below average or worse vs 2 below average , 5 good rating , 1 unicum) hence the almighty title.

Back to the point , the matchmaker obviously creates hugely one-sided battles which in some way the player is predetermined to lose just from the picks regardless of how good he is. 

EDIT: This is the "Matchmaker Discussion Thread & MM Balance" thread please boast about yourself and flame others elsewhere, it is not needed, it is not constructive and it does not light yourself in a good way.  

[ColonelPete]

1 hour ago, Darkeid said:

Back to the point , the matchmaker obviously creates hugely onesided battles which in some way the player is predetermined to lose just from the picks regardless of how good he is. 

Your chance to win is never 0%.

[surfer_gr]

not only the MM sucks every day we have to put up with the detonation crap as well even with the 70% module on really WG you are borring me 3 allready wtf is this crap

 

[LemonadeWarriorITA]

Worst losing streak in my Montana. Struggling to win these BB heavy matches. It is taking me too long to win on my flank.

[PaxtonQuigly]

16 hours ago, surfer_gr said:

not only the MM sucks every day we have to put up with the detonation crap as well even with the 70% module on really WG you are borring me 3 allready wtf is this crap

-snip-

Dude, with 44k matches im sure you can afford detonation flags......

[surfer_gr]

8 minutes ago, PaxtonQuigly said:

Dude, with 44k matches im sure you can afford detonation flags......

i usually play 30 dd battles a day you have any idea 40 deto flags cost per day i guess not

[Captain_Breeze]

Just now, surfer_gr said:

i usually play 30 dd battles a day you have any idea 40 deto flags cost per day i guess not

I don't bother with deto flags in randoms. I just don't get detonated enough to warrant using them.

 

In CB's or Ranked then yes, but not in randoms. I just accept a detonation when it happens.

[surfer_gr]

will only say this 15k dd battles deto flags not an option after achievement flags removed would be broke in no time LOLs i just say say that 3 detonations in 5 games is a bit weird like the MM:P

 

 

 

32 million potential out of 39 playing dds yesterday for dockyard

[PaxtonQuigly]

13 minutes ago, surfer_gr said:

i usually play 30 dd battles a day you have any idea 40 deto flags cost per day i guess not

? its like right there in the armory?

3 minutes ago, surfer_gr said:

will only say this 15k dd battles deto flags not an option after achievement flags removed would be broke in no time LOLs i just say say that 3 detonations in 5 games is a bit weird like the MM:P

Assume you run premium when you play that much per day. Then it is literally impossible to not make a profit.