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Matchmaker Discussion Thread & MM Balance

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I seriously dont get all the people who wants to mess with the MM. How fun is it to KNOW that you will win 50% of the battles now matter what you are doing? Theres absolutely no point in playing anymore then, when you can go AFK for a milion battles and still win 50%, becouse the MM will compensate your team somehow. Likewise, no matter how good you play, you only win 50%, sounds fun right?

As it is, its really simple: Play above average and you win above average. Likewise, play below average and you winn less than average

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T8 Matchmaking is piss poor. it's really frustrating.

 

  1. I'm very frequently in T10 matches with 3 or less T8 ships + CV
  2. 2 CVs at T8 (either 2 top tier CVs or one T8 and T6) is really stupid. It's hell for DDs of course but for any other ship without good AA too.
  3. Ships like the Kiev become kinda useless at T10. Outspotted by everything and can't be stealthy for too long. If you're going to be gun-boating then CV comes to you like a fly to a corpse.
    1. Kiev gets outspotted by almost everything but Khaba and Tashkent.
    2. you have to play super passive and hide behind other ships. moment you fire you get focused.
  4. It's so frustrating. It feels as if Wargaming doesn't respect my time tbh.
  5. Rewards for playing higher when uptiered need to be way higher. It's really not worthwhile otherwise, at the moment.

I have spent over a month compiling my MM experiences at T8, along with the damage I end up doing. Here are the images:

https://imgur.com/a/5kN18NS

 

So maybe i just play crap, eh? Well, what happens when there's no T10s?

https://imgur.com/a/5smj6gr
https://replayswows.com/replay/50421#stats (even though two CVs - if there was one/none i'd have probably got more kills and damage)

 

Finally, f*** CVs. They're toxic as hell. I seem to be a CV magnet, given the number of times they really want to kill me. not to mention, being a T8 ship in a T10 game almost guarentees the CV is going to come after you. Sure, it tends to lose them the game but i don't play this game to be a pinata for incompetent top tier CVs.

Examples:

https://replayswows.com/replay/52917#stats

https://replayswows.com/replay/54478#stats

 

of course even @MrConway knows what happens when CVs focus on you...

 

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10 hours ago, WarburtonLee said:

I seriously dont get all the people who wants to mess with the MM. How fun is it to KNOW that you will win 50% of the battles now matter what you are doing? Theres absolutely no point in playing anymore then, when you can go AFK for a milion battles and still win 50%, becouse the MM will compensate your team somehow. Likewise, no matter how good you play, you only win 50%, sounds fun right?

As it is, its really simple: Play above average and you win above average. Likewise, play below average and you winn less than average

For me, it is not all about winning or loosing the damn battle. It is about how much excitement and joy I have fighting against opposite team with simmilar skilled players. To often we have battles ending with one team devastated and there is no fun, there is no excitement and there is no goods for most of the players, no matter in which team they are. How often we have tight fights, where every shell counts? Maybe 1 out of 10.

Personally, I don't care much about my stats - win rate, average dmg, XP etc. But when it comes to tasks where winning is mandatory (naval battle, Ranked or simmilar), than win rate counts and it pisses me off.

The only thing I can't understand is why MM can't rely more on average player skills within the two opposite teams? There are numerous ways to do that. I'm sure it would give us much more interesting fights.

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MI for long the worst part of world of warships, an otherwise good and fun game, is its terrible matchmaker, I have debated many solutions and fixes 🤔😊

 

And I think the best solution I come up with so far,

Is for every win you get one point,

and lose one for a losing a battle

You can have no less the 0 points and max 20.

The matchmaker will try match you up against max +/- 3 points, players close to you skill level,

This per ship, and a new ship starts 0

 

There will 5 league's

0-4 Novice

5-9 Sailor + 10% credits earned

10-14 captain +10% credits earned, -10% rep

15-19 admiral, all previous and +50% free xp

20 grand admiral, all previous and +100% commander xp

 

The matchmaker will try to keep the +/-3 for the first 30 sek and add +1 for every 5 sek beyond that, to keep waits low

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Dear Sirs and Madames,

excuse them, but their game lacks balance.

Why?

Too many Destroyer and cruisers in the game, which shoot away the opponents due to speed and the xtrem many torpedoes.

A battleship very often has no chance to score points and enters minus.

There are also too many islands that stand in the way of the game of battleships.

Personally, I will no longer buy or use ships above rank VI or higher.

If you can't only drive with Premium, then the game is not free !

I don't want to be indirectly forced to buy Premium!

That's what I do when I fun in the Game.

The costs in the game are just way too high !!! And look for the Balance.

Thank you.

 

Best Regards.

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9 minutes ago, Skrylly said:

Dear Sirs and Madames,

excuse them, but their game lacks balance.

Why?

Too many Destroyer and cruisers in the game, which shoot away the opponents due to speed and the xtrem many torpedoes.

A battleship very often has no chance to score points and enters minus.

There are also too many islands that stand in the way of the game of battleships.

Personally, I will no longer buy or use ships above rank VI or higher.

If you can't only drive with Premium, then the game is not free !

I don't want to be indirectly forced to buy Premium!

That's what I do when I fun in the Game.

The costs in the game are just way too high !!! And look for the Balance.

Thank you.

 

Best Regards.

 

You might want to stop playing coop... you wont earn too much credits there :cap_hmm:

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Please WoW... provide options for "Match Making" or do a better job of it.

 

How is it fair to put a single Tier 7 in with Tier 8's and 9's.... If i wanted to start a game and get destroyed within the first minute I would have gone to play a toxic game like 'CoD'.

 

Please give players the option to limit to same Tier only to prevent this kind of unfair and match making.

There are people who do not enjoy starting a game and being killed by people they cannot see or shot and not by a small margin.

 

And before anyone of you start piping up about well you just need to learn to play the game better, I have this to say....

 

When a Tier 9 has a higher HP pool Faster cruising speed, longer Firing range and can spot a ship further...

How are you in a lower Tier ship supposed to shot back or avoid them when you cant see them and can't out run them...

How is that fun for a new person to the Tier and what do they take away from it... Nothing apart from frustration at the fact they got wiped out in the starting few minutes.

 

Yes I am speaking from experience, but I have also seen a lot of other people have exactly the same thing happen in different Tiers.

 

I can already feel the burn from the "Experienced players" here for making these comments... but its true... a no amount of "Well just get better",  "Go watch some YouTube videos" comments makes it any easier to learn when this happens so frequently.

 

This feels like World Of Warships is using its in experienced players to give their experienced players a fun game... or should I say Turkey shoot as it is best described by those players in the game..

 

How do they think they will keep the game running if they don't do something..

 

Heck I would take (+-1) Tier matching over (+- 2) or just not getting a match at all for the Tier I want to play in than be 2 below the highest Tier... I also don't think it is fair when I'm a Tier 6 CV playing against Tier 4's and 5's, so how do you think they feel.  

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19 hours ago, Skrylly said:

Dear Sirs and Madames,

excuse them, but their game lacks balance.

Why?

Too many Destroyer and cruisers in the game, which shoot away the opponents due to speed and the xtrem many torpedoes.

A battleship very often has no chance to score points and enters minus.

There are also too many islands that stand in the way of the game of battleships.

Personally, I will no longer buy or use ships above rank VI or higher.

If you can't only drive with Premium, then the game is not free !

I don't want to be indirectly forced to buy Premium!

That's what I do when I fun in the Game.

The costs in the game are just way too high !!! And look for the Balance.

Thank you.

 

Best Regards.

 

I guess you do not play random, because there are not too many cruisers or DD's around...

 

shot-19_05.30_11_16.19-0060.thumb.jpg.2d09f1cf55db6dc601bf5bf1c2b6d8fb.jpg

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14 minutes ago, NadTasTic said:

Please WoW... provide options for "Match Making" or do a better job of it.

 

How is it fair to put a single Tier 7 in with Tier 8's and 9's.... If i wanted to start a game and get destroyed within the first minute I would have gone to play a toxic game like 'CoD'.

 

Please give players the option to limit to same Tier only to prevent this kind of unfair and match making.

There are people who do not enjoy starting a game and being killed by people they cannot see or shot and not by a small margin.

 

And before anyone of you start piping up about well you just need to learn to play the game better, I have this to say....

 

When a Tier 9 has a higher HP pool Faster cruising speed, longer Firing range and can spot a ship further...

How are you in a lower Tier ship supposed to shot back or avoid them when you cant see them and can't out run them...

How is that fun for a new person to the Tier and what do they take away from it... Nothing apart from frustration at the fact they got wiped out in the starting few minutes.

 

Yes I am speaking from experience, but I have also seen a lot of other people have exactly the same thing happen in different Tiers.

 

I can already feel the burn from the "Experienced players" here for making these comments... but its true... a no amount of "Well just get better",  "Go watch some YouTube videos" comments makes it any easier to learn when this happens so frequently.

 

This feels like World Of Warships is using its in experienced players to give their experienced players a fun game... or should I say Turkey shoot as it is best described by those players in the game..

 

How do they think they will keep the game running if they don't do something..

 

Heck I would take (+-1) Tier matching over (+- 2) or just not getting a match at all for the Tier I want to play in than be 2 below the highest Tier... I also don't think it is fair when I'm a Tier 6 CV playing against Tier 4's and 5's, so how do you think they feel.  

 

Not a pro player here, but this is how I see it:

 

If I'm a T7 in a T9 game... there is also a T7 in the enemy team. And I do not need to do better then all those T9's.

I just need to do better then the T7 in the enemy team.

So, don't set the bar too high. Your team will also not expect you to kill half the enemy team while you are bottom tier (ofcourse, if you do sink half the enemy team... :Smile_glasses:)

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2 minutes ago, Zigiran said:

 

Not a pro player here, but this is how I see it:

 

If I'm a T7 in a T9 game... there is also a T7 in the enemy team. And I do not need to do better then all those T9's.

I just need to do better then the T7 in the enemy team.

So, don't set the bar too high. Your team will also not expect you to kill half the enemy team while you are bottom tier (ofcourse, if you do sink half the enemy team... :Smile_glasses:)

But that is not my issue...

My issue is being spotted by every other ship first and being wiped out before you even get chance to find the other lower tier on opposing team, happen to me literally every game like this.

And it is not my tactics that are the issue as i have tried everything under the sun.... even being AFK just to see what happens, but got the same effect.

 

Yes I agree that you need to be realistic and you should play against other tiers.... but +-2 Tiers is just stupid.... +-1 Tier would be better and closer battles for all IMHO..

 

Otherwise, how does that make for a fun game.... It doesn't period.

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18 minutes ago, NadTasTic said:

My issue is being spotted by every other ship first and being wiped out before you even get chance to find the other lower tier on opposing team

No, that is not what I ment.

 

I'm not saying you should only shoot the other T7 in a T9 game.

I'm saying you should be more effective then the other T7 in that T9 game.

 

As a battleship: deal more damage then your red T7... on whatever ship needs shooting: T9, T8 or T7.

As a DD: spot more, cap more, etc.

 

Edit: also, you are most effective being alive.

So as a bottom tier: play a bit more carefull then normal.

I find it amazing when I see a bottom tier cruiser charging ahead of the team. They do not live long.

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47 minutes ago, NadTasTic said:

When a Tier 9 has a higher HP pool Faster cruising speed, longer Firing range and can spot a ship further...

And it is not my tactics that are the issue as i have tried everything under the sun.... even being AFK just to see what happens, but got the same effect.

 

Being outspotted mostly matters if you are playing a DD. From your stats i see, you are playing a BB on T7. BBs dont spot for themselves, they let DDs (or even Cruisers) and CVs spot for them. If you are AFK, that makes matters worse.

 

Even if you dont like it: You are waaay to inexperienced to make the right calls on what is the issue when facing 2 tier higher ships.

- play more lowertiers, try to get atleast a 10 point captain for your T7+ ships so you have concealment expert. If you dont have that, your concealment is really bad, especially against T8 ships which have a module to get their concealment lowered even more.

- KGV and DoY are very thinly armored. Especially against T8+ BBs, they have a hard time as every one of them can overmatch your armor. Stay at range, use HE (DoY has good AP tho), try to dodge enemy fire rather than to absorb it.

- The best bet for you is, play more lowertiers, all classes different nations, if you want help for a specific ship, make a seperate thread asking for help, post a replay or 2 and people will tell you how to get better.

 

50 minutes ago, NadTasTic said:

I also don't think it is fair when I'm a Tier 6 CV playing against Tier 4's and 5's, so how do you think they feel.  

 

Yeah, thats why T6 ships dont face T4 ships. :fish_book: T1-4 has +/-1 MM to make it easier for newer players. Once you start playing hightiers, you have harsher MM, but you should also have more experience. Sadly, the way WG is pushing the ability to grind through the tiers is mostly hurting new players, as they advance much too fast.

 

56 minutes ago, NadTasTic said:

There are people who do not enjoy starting a game and being killed by people they cannot see or shot and not by a small margin. 

Well then i guess, the most logical step would be to quit this game. It might not be for you. They will not change +/-2 MM, they have said so often. Also, if you dont like MM when playing T7, dont even go to T8. Its MUCH worse there, because T7 MM is considered to be one of the best out of all tiers.

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32 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Being outspotted mostly matters if you are playing a DD. From your stats i see, you are playing a BB on T7. BBs dont spot for themselves, they let DDs (or even Cruisers) and CVs spot for them. If you are AFK, that makes matters worse.

 

Even if you dont like it: You are waaay to inexperienced to make the right calls on what is the issue when facing 2 tier higher ships.

- play more lowertiers, try to get atleast a 10 point captain for your T7+ ships so you have concealment expert. If you dont have that, your concealment is really bad, especially against T8 ships which have a module to get their concealment lowered even more.

- KGV and DoY are very thinly armored. Especially against T8+ BBs, they have a hard time as every one of them can overmatch your armor. Stay at range, use HE (DoY has good AP tho), try to dodge enemy fire rather than to absorb it.

- The best bet for you is, play more lowertiers, all classes different nations, if you want help for a specific ship, make a seperate thread asking for help, post a replay or 2 and people will tell you how to get better.

 

 

Yeah, thats why T6 ships dont face T4 ships. :fish_book: T1-4 has +/-1 MM to make it easier for newer players. Once you start playing hightiers, you have harsher MM, but you should also have more experience. Sadly, the way WG is pushing the ability to grind through the tiers is mostly hurting new players, as they advance much too fast.

 

Well then i guess, the most logical step would be to quit this game. It might not be for you. They will not change +/-2 MM, they have said so often. Also, if you dont like MM when playing T7, dont even go to T8. Its MUCH worse there, because T7 MM is considered to be one of the best out of all tiers.

Okay so this is going to sound like this is directed at you, but it is not. It is my frustration with the general reaction every time this subject is brought up by someone.

 

I am sorry but I really hate that phrase "Inexperienced Player", that is just a statement from a player that has played more games than I have. So, I have played more games than a new player, so who is the more experienced/inexperienced! It is just a subjective statement.

 

I would go as far as to say I am an experienced player.... Experienced in the poor matching against other ships, within a game that has little to no tutorials that is of any help on the basics of the game.

The game does not teach you the differences between Spotting range, Concealment, Camo and all the other elements required to get a good understanding of the game mechanics.

Sadly this is an oversight by WG and no-one else's fault, no other game say's hey we are not going show our community of players how to play the game, we will leave it up to the community to teach each other using social media and networking sites to do so. Again who wants to spend hours trawling through YouTube trying to find a good tutorial on how to play WoW or what each of the stats means, when it should be in the game you playing.

 

As for my stats in Tier 7... well not to be too blunt but, what the hell am I to do... I get a tier 7 ship, but don't use it until I get a commander up to 10 skill points... WTF... seriously what are you smoking!! 

How many players are going to get a ship from a Tier and sit and wait until they have a commander with 10 skill points before playing a game with the ship...

 

And this is another reason it is so frustrating... You ("The Experienced players" not you personally) make these comments "You are waaay to inexperienced to make the right calls on what is the issue when facing 2 tier higher ships".

Well I am sorry for getting frustrated that I get blown up literally every game I play in a Tier 7 with Tier 8's and 9's within the first few minutes, but how the hell else am I supposed to get any experience in the game unless I play it..

I have no issues when I a T7 BB am in games that are Tier 6, 7 and 8.... or Tier 6 and 7, or Tier 7 and 8.... My issue is the Tier 7, 8 and 9 battles it keeps throwing me into. Comments like yours make me just feel like "Quitting" the game when I see it start with Tier 9's or going "AFK" for 20 mins at the start because what is the point in even trying..

 

As for advising on why each of the other higher tier ships will spot you first... Shot you first and kill you first... they are all valid, YES.... But in the very same instance your are also proving my point as to why it is so frustrating for the "inexperienced players", and is just proving my point that MM is poor and needs to be pulled down to +-1 or have options you can select and they need actual playable Tutorials. Not the video crap they added recently as an after thought.

 

I have tried the hard charge forward's and learnt the hard way.... I have tried hanging back... and had no joy because I get spotted by CV and picked on for being the lowest tier..

Tried staying with the team, and as soon as I get spotted I get taken out..... the only way I survive games with 2 tiers higher present, is to go and hide without being spotted or just be very very lucky (which just does not happen).

 

The grind for a player to reach the higher tiers is not advancing to fast, its changing the the way the matching is done once you reach Tier V that is what is screwing people over and the lack of a proper tutorial system within the actual game...

 

What would make more sense is to have a difficulty rating that you could set that would allow you to determine the max +- Tier you play against.

 

Nothing could be simpler to resolve theses issues "Inexperienced" players are having and bring joy back to there gaming experience.

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8 minutes ago, NadTasTic said:

*snip*

 

Ofc you gain more experience the more you play, but with "only" 660 battles played, i can safely say you have very little experience. Id say you need 1000-1500 battles to have the knowledge to actually become a better player, before that there is just too much stuff going on to just learn while playing.

I agree, having no tutorials is bad. On the other hand, values like concealment differ so much no tutorial could easily teach them to you. But you dont need to know exact values to have a decent game. But it will help if you play a DD. But when you play BB, it doesnt matter too much what concealment other ships have. You need to work with your own concealment to not get trapped in a situation when you are always detected.

 

As for the 10 pt captain:

You can use the captain from the previous ship, so you level it as you advance through the tiers. 10 pts is not even much, but it sure helps, especially if you are lowtier.

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10 minutes ago, NadTasTic said:

As for my stats in Tier 7... well not to be too blunt but, what the hell am I to do... I get a tier 7 ship, but don't use it until I get a commander up to 10 skill points... WTF... seriously what are you smoking!! 

How many players are going to get a ship from a Tier and sit and wait until they have a commander with 10 skill points before playing a game with the ship...

People progressing through a shipline get a captain at the start (T1/2/3 depending on cr/dd/bb) and transfer that captain to the next ship when they go up a tier.

If you do this you should get your captain to 10 points around tier 5 or 6.

 

Note: this is just general info, I have no idea what lvl captain you have for your T7 battleships.

 

Also, in case you don't know, you can put a captain on a premium ship without the need to retrain him.

Since you have both the KBV and the DoY, you can take 1 captain and use him for both ships.

This allows you to get extra captain exp because you can get the daily win bonus (+50%) on both ships with the same captain.

You can also use the DoY to retrain your captain if you put him on a new ship, since on a premium ship all the captain skills work fully, even while retraining.

 

Disclaimer: I'm not familiar with (british) battleships, so I'm not sure if the captain build for the KGV and the DoY are the same, I'm assuming they are.

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On 6/22/2019 at 8:11 PM, Skrylly said:

Dear Sirs and Madames,

excuse them, but their game lacks balance.

Why?

Too many Destroyer and cruisers in the game, which shoot away the opponents due to speed and the xtrem many torpedoes.

A battleship very often has no chance to score points and enters minus.

There are also too many islands that stand in the way of the game of battleships.

Personally, I will no longer buy or use ships above rank VI or higher.

If you can't only drive with Premium, then the game is not free !

I don't want to be indirectly forced to buy Premium!

That's what I do when I fun in the Game.

The costs in the game are just way too high !!! And look for the Balance.

Thank you.

 

Best Regards.

The biggest mistake you can do, and many people actually do in this game, is buying a premium ship, Tier 8 probably, and join a battle without even knowing the basics. Believe me when I say this, but there are MANY premium ships that are actually worst than their non premium equivalent. Premium ships are only good to make some money. Nothing else. There are of course a few unbalanced ones, but WG doesn't care about that. A battleship can effect a lot the outcome of a game, by "deleting" cruisers from the battle, but to be able to do that, you be in a position, and learn to read the map. You must also know the ships you are facing. Whats their pros and cons, and what to take advantage. That requires a lot of experience and it takes time. As I can see in your stats, you don't have that much of experience, but in time, you ll be able to use islands, on your advantage,(ie. protect from torps.

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On 6/23/2019 at 3:31 PM, NadTasTic said:

Yes I am speaking from experience

image.png.6c794d148b8541dccc4f92c21802dc85.png

 

I'm sorry mate, but those to above contradict each other.

Yes being a bottom tier is a challenge.. but thats it.. only a challenge, not an unfair situation.

all the things you've listed about, are actually caused by a lack of experience.

 

Try to stay lower tiers for a litte more.

 

I'm not trying to offend you or belittle you.

If you feel like that because of this post, I sincerely apologize.

But 600+ battles can sometimes not be enough for people to learn the game..

 

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14 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

But 600+ battles can sometimes not be enough for people to learn the game..

 

Id say, 600 can never be enough. I dont even remember my first 1k games really, was just playing a lot back then:cap_haloween: Im still wondering when i played >500 battles with Takao back then :Smile_teethhappy:

 

PS.: i like the warn button right below the user avatar LOL

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14 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

I dont even remember my first 1k games really,

I don't want to remember my first 1K... really don't..

I actually stopped playing this game around that time, because it felt boring.

I was dying in the first 5 mins.. with a WR of %30+ and average damage of something like 2Kish :)

 

I'm still trying to recover from that LOL !

15 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

i like the warn button right below the user avatar LOL

You will be visited by some gentelmen with black ski masks on tonight.

Tell them you didn't see anything!
I hope you know how to say that in russian!

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Hmm.... IMO the whole issue with the MM, is that it's frustrating and not much fun, scuking some the fun out of othervise fun game!

but there are challenges to fixing the MM, we currently don't have enough players to do,

a full skill one tier spread MM, witch would be the optimal!

 

So we have to kinda a hot fix of sort, piggybacking of the exiting Tier system,

Where you win and loses adjust the ship tier slightly, +/-0,05 per win/lose,

up to one full Tier, and keep the current +/-2 spread MM just adjusted for the new ship rating

 

think that would work really well as a soft skill MM system

:cat_cool:

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I have for long been looking into how to improve the MM,

there is a lot of stubble bloks, like of player numbers to make full skille league system work!

 

So came up with this solution, hijacking the exiting tier system,

We will keep the current +/-2 system, but modify the ships rating,

the current match ships with in 3 tier window!

by adjusting ships tier rating slightly, based of win/loss,

each win will add +0,05, and a lose -0.05 to ship tier, and a ship kan go up/down 1 tier this way!

eks. you are in a tier 8 ship, do well for the first 4 matches, you ship rating will now be 8.2, and now meet ship up to rating 10.2 and down to tier 6.2, yes this means you will not meet avg tier 6 players!

This system can be done with current player base 🤔

And massive improve player experience, and balance in teams, where the strongest ships have the less skilled players and the weaker ships have the higher skill, creating a ballance!

It will also automatic balance OP ships!

 

Some options

1 you can have MM try for 1 tier spread and increase spread by 0,1 per second til in get match or hit 3 tier spread

2 you can use that top 8 players in match, gains a "rank" and the bottom 8 lose one, the middle 8 stays

3 you can also the max +/- you can gain to 2 tier from 1, will give even more prestige to gain max "rank"

4 new ship should start with minus 0,5 to tier, as players have to learn to play them, and they are weaker that a full upgraded ship

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