Matchmaker Discussion Thread & MM Balance

[Bainsmit_steel]

That what ColonelPete says is truth also as you come unprepared for higher level games...so at least try to grind out one line to the end without speeding it up.

[GarrusBrutus]

1 minute ago, RazorBlade72 said:

Lets assume you are right, and I don't believe you are wrong. Is it then the fault of the user who obviously wants to play in the nicest ships or is it bad game design that places people who have little experience together with people who have much more experience? If somebody just starts to play football, then you would not expect an invitation to the Super Bowl after 3 weeks.

 

I have now this nice ship, which I paid good money for to get it so I will use it. I will not play bad on purpose but you can't expect me to buy credits for a good ship and not use it.

Both. Why would you spend money on a free to play game that you have little to no experience with in the first place? Why not play a few weeks and decide if it is worth to continue playing and/or spend money on it.

The way you make it sound now feels rather entitled and disrespectful towards other players. Your fun shouldnt diminish others' fun.

[RazorBlade72]

5 minutes ago, GarrusBrutus said:

The way you make it sound now feels rather entitled and disrespectful towards other players. Your fun shouldnt diminish others' fun.

Well, that is the way money spending works. If you spend money on something then you are entitled to use it. If the makers of this game don't want me to use it then they should not sell it.

[GarrusBrutus]

2 minutes ago, RazorBlade72 said:

Well, that is the way money spending works. If you spend money on something then you are entitled to use it. If the makers of this game don't want me to use it then they should not sell it.

Can you blame them for selling to oblivious players such as you? It always intrigued me how players are willing to spend incredible amounts of money on this game without as much as watching a single tutorial. But I'm not stopping you, nor will wargaming. It's just that both you and all players in your games could have more fun if their dd did a little more than tier 1 level damage per game.

 

Besides, 30% winrate indicates that you are actively griefing your own team. I've heard it all: 

- I play for fun

- I paid, so I can do what I want

- wargaming should have better tutorials

- Garrus, don't be so elitist. 

Etc. Etc. 

In the end its on you, the player, to either care to improve or not. There are plenty of ways to do so. The forum being one of them, filled with experienced players willing to help. But if you simply don't care, then you also don't care about all the other players you play with and against. And THAT, in my eyes, is peak toxicity. Atleast as far as playing online MULTI-PLAYER games is concerned. 

[RazorBlade72]

1 hour ago, GarrusBrutus said:

Can you blame them for selling to oblivious players such as you? It always intrigued me how players are willing to spend incredible amounts of money on this game without as much as watching a single tutorial. But I'm not stopping you, nor will wargaming. It's just that both you and all players in your games could have more fun if their dd did a little more than tier 1 level damage per game.

 

Besides, 30% winrate indicates that you are actively griefing your own team. I've heard it all: 

- I play for fun

- I paid, so I can do what I want

- wargaming should have better tutorials

- Garrus, don't be so elitist. 

Etc. Etc. 

In the end its on you, the player, to either care to improve or not. There are plenty of ways to do so. The forum being one of them, filled with experienced players willing to help. But if you simply don't care, then you also don't care about all the other players you play with and against. And THAT, in my eyes, is peak toxicity. Atleast as far as playing online MULTI-PLAYER games is concerned. 

Of course I care to improve. I already did watch several tutorials, watched several Twitch players play the game and asked them questions to understand the game better. I already learned all the radar ships out of the top my had with the detections ranges. So saying that I don't try to improve myself is a big exaggeration. It only takes more then a few weeks to do that. I would not be surprised that a year from now my stats will be much better then they are now. As with everything in life you learn something by doing it. So for me playing the game is the best way to get better.

 

The real problem is however the game design. The game should have mechanics that make it impossible to fight people with a much higher or lower skill level. And keep in mind that there will always be people that are better and worse then you. So, if I would from now on start playing tier I ships then there is always somebody else who ruins the game for others. 

 

Nearly every competition for nearly every game or sport is designed in such a way that the top players don't play against rookies. I am surprised that is not so in this game. What I did notice however is a certain hostility against new players and that can only be explained from the game mechanics. If rookies would not be mixed up with top players then there would not be a problem with rookies getting higher up. Then they can only get higher up when they are actually better. 

 

Edit: In the beginning I played against bots. Later people told me I should play in random battle because I could get more XP. Is it perhaps a good idea to play against bots for now to familiarize myself with the game? Is that a solution so I can still play my nice Shimakaze while not frustrating the serious gamers who will most likely play in random battles. 

[Pukovnik7]

20 minutes ago, RazorBlade72 said:

Of course I care to improve. I already did watch several tutorials, watched several Twitch players play the game and asked them questions to understand the game better. I already learned all the radar ships out of the top my had with the detections ranges. So saying that I don't try to improve myself is a big exaggeration. It only takes more then a few weeks to do that. I would not be surprised that a year from now my stats will be much better then they are now. As with everything in life you learn something by doing it. So for me playing the game is the best way to get better.

 

The real problem is however the game design. The game should have mechanics that make it impossible to fight people with a much higher or lower skill level. And keep in mind that there will always be people that are better and worse then you. So, if I would from now on start playing tier I ships then there is always somebody else who ruins the game for others. 

 

Nearly every competition for nearly every game or sport is designed in such a way that the top players don't play against rookies. I am surprised that is not so in this game. What I did notice however is a certain hostility against new players and that can only be explained from the game mechanics. If rookies would not be mixed up with top players then there would not be a problem with rookies getting higher up. Then they can only get higher up when they are actually better. 

3 hours ago, RazorBlade72 said:

Lets assume you are right, and I don't believe you are wrong. Is it then the fault of the user who obviously wants to play in the nicest ships or is it bad game design that places people who have little experience together with people who have much more experience? If somebody just starts to play football, then you would not expect an invitation to the Super Bowl after 3 weeks.

 

I have now this nice ship, which I paid good money for to get it so I will use it. I will not play bad on purpose but you can't expect me to buy credits for a good ship and not use it.

 

OK, few things...

 

First, this game is designed in a way that should discourage top players from playing against rookies. After all, higher tier games are more complex and more rewarding. But tiers are not locked, and I have been seeing players with 10 000+ games playing Tier I. So the only thing to do is to get better.

 

Second, if you really want to use that nice ship, there is always a COOP. I made a mistake of buying Vanguard back when I was at Tier V, if memory serves me well. I was so outclassed that I could not enjoy the game and barely climbed to 44% win rate in the thing. Now I have bought Tirpitz... and I actually am enjoying her. I don't feel outclassed, and it is a German battleship so it is a barrel of fun. And I would have actually been able to research Bismarck by now if I hadn't been spending experience points to promote captains. As a matter of fact, I researched Bismarch just as I was writing this, only two days after buying Tirpitz. So now I have both sisters (as I did previously with Scharnhorst and Gneisenau) and... I actually still feel as if I am climbing up too quickly, but at least I do not feel outclassed.

[GarrusBrutus]

37 minutes ago, RazorBlade72 said:

The real problem is however the game design. The game should have mechanics that make it impossible to fight people with a much higher or lower skill level.

Why? In lots of games, such as CoD, Battlefield, Fifa, Overwatch and many more, you fight against random players from all skill levels.

Besides this game has such a low player count that it would be impossible for players on either end of the skill spectrum to have decent queue times if skill based mm was implemented.

Furthermore, the game design is such that you get introduced in the game at a steady pace (albeit way quicker than lets say a few years ago), progressing through tiers as you unlock new ships.

42 minutes ago, RazorBlade72 said:

What I did notice however is a certain hostility against new players and that can only be explained from the game mechanics.

Nobody hates new players. But people dont like new players who buy their way to tier ten without understanding even the most basic concepts of the game.

43 minutes ago, RazorBlade72 said:

If rookies would not be mixed up with top players then there would not be a problem with rookies getting higher up. Then they can only get higher up when they are actually better. 

Except how do you learn the game when you only play against same skilled players in perpetuum? Do you know the expression "In the land of the blind, the one eyed is king."

45 minutes ago, RazorBlade72 said:

In the beginning I played against bots. Later people told me I should play in random battle because I could get more XP. Is it perhaps a good idea to play against bots for now to familiarize myself with the game? Is that a solution so I can still play my nice Shimakaze while not frustrating the serious gamers who will most likely play in random battles. 

Nobody can tell you what you need to do. You are free to play any tier and any gamemode for as much as you want. But my advice to you would be: Keep learning at a lower tier until you feel you've mastered atleast the basics and then progress up in tiers. Sure i get it, you want to play the shima because it is "end game content". I get it. But let me show you my progression in the early days.

It took me 70!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! weeks to unlock my first tier X ship. Did it bother me? No. Because i was enjoying playing and learning in lower tiers as well, since everything was new to me.

 

TLDR: The game becomes more fun, the more you start to understand its intricacies along the way at a steady pace instead of jumping to end game content.

 

[159Hunter]

@RazorBlade72 if you are serious on improving. Just open a topic, post some replays and ask for advice.

Also, better return to tier V ish and play different classes. 

Ask for people to div up with you 

[Bear__Necessities]

@RazorBlade72 I've not read through all the posts. But, if you are serious about wanting to learn how to play well enough to start getting the best out of Shima and enjoy the game with more depth and understanding. I would be happy to answer questions. Give you replays of my own or go through and review your replays. 

 

It took me 1000's of games and I mean 1000's. Learning the hard way as there was not much creator content and the game was new. But I've got to a point where I can confidently say I'm one of the best DD players currently active. And even I'm still learning. But also willing to teach. Just, ask and be open to positive critique. 

[Camperdown]

On 6/17/2021 at 5:05 PM, RazorBlade72 said:

Of course I care to improve. I already did watch several tutorials, watched several Twitch players play the game and asked them questions to understand the game better. I already learned all the radar ships out of the top my had with the detections ranges. So saying that I don't try to improve myself is a big exaggeration. It only takes more then a few weeks to do that. I would not be surprised that a year from now my stats will be much better then they are now. As with everything in life you learn something by doing it. So for me playing the game is the best way to get better.

 

The real problem is however the game design. The game should have mechanics that make it impossible to fight people with a much higher or lower skill level. And keep in mind that there will always be people that are better and worse then you. So, if I would from now on start playing tier I ships then there is always somebody else who ruins the game for others. 

 

Nearly every competition for nearly every game or sport is designed in such a way that the top players don't play against rookies. I am surprised that is not so in this game. What I did notice however is a certain hostility against new players and that can only be explained from the game mechanics. If rookies would not be mixed up with top players then there would not be a problem with rookies getting higher up. Then they can only get higher up when they are actually better. 

 

Edit: In the beginning I played against bots. Later people told me I should play in random battle because I could get more XP. Is it perhaps a good idea to play against bots for now to familiarize myself with the game? Is that a solution so I can still play my nice Shimakaze while not frustrating the serious gamers who will most likely play in random battles. 

Hi,

I applaud that you are willing to learn. It is a complex game. As others have pointed out, it can take thousands of games to git gud.

A few suggestions:

- it is much more useful to play randoms than coop. Bots actually teach you stuff that is harmful in PvP 

- drop down a couple of tiers. Imo T5-7 are best to learn the game.

- become comfortable in a couple of ships or types. When you reach +50% WR in a couple of ships you can start to progress 

- read the wiki to learn about game mechanics and ship characteristics

- post questions on this forum, if they are genuine, even the know-it-alls on this forum will try to help you out

 

 

[Darkeid]

And remember , how you play or regardless of how good you are , when the MM works like this:

 

It is better to save yourself the time and frustration and not play at all

[Darkeid]

And also remember , it is possible that the next match in a row might be like this:

 

So dont pay attention to the non-official WG employess trying to prove you crazy. MM is working in a way that uneven matches happen.

[GarrusBrutus]

@Darkeid try to play without MMM for a change....

[159Hunter]

4 minutes ago, GarrusBrutus said:

@Darkeid try to play without MMM for a change....

Or @Darkeid post the screenshots of all your games (and the result)

[Mcfly666]

After playing for a while in ranked today I've got to say Wargaming are bloody useless. I'm not the best player by any means but I'm CONSTANTLY being put in teams where players have really low stats. Players with sub 40%WR and a few hundred battles under their belt, where the other team has players where they each have 5k+ battles and 50/60% WR's.

Is that this the limit of Russian/Belarusian programming? Surely the Dev's can do better than this? 

If Wargaming want players to spend their hard earned on this game they should do a better job, MM is an absolute JOKE.

After my premium time/Gold is used up I'm going to put this game to the bottom of a pile, I'd rather play with traffic or learn how to fly off a bridge.

[Dusan_The_Mighty]

WG.. seems every Ranked I play(at least 75%), I receive a team of [edited].. I think maybe you are calling me a 'tard on a low down? Which is fine, I accept that.. but how about you then let me fight OTHER [edited]!? Not genius, prodigy kids? 
2 Yorck's on my team VS 2 Atlanta on theirs. Its an easy fix, WG, easy fix.. DON'T LET SAME SHIPS BE ON SAME TEAM!! I don't care how fkin long I gotta wait for the match!!!! 


Edit: you ****'s 

[ColonelPete]

2 hours ago, Darkeid said:

And remember , how you play or regardless of how good you are , when the MM works like this:

 

It is better to save yourself the time and frustration and not play at all

Feel free to be AFK all the time, according to you your winrate will not change.

[_kaiten_]

I want to share this capture from last night. Last 2 hours to end ranked battle sprint. I had 3 stars and i need 2 to pass to silver, and this was that happened. MM said that im not going to pass.

[Sea_w0lf]

1 hour ago, _kaiten_ said:

I want to share this capture from last night. Last 2 hours to end ranked battle sprint. I had 3 stars and i need 2 to pass to silver, and this was that happened. MM said that im not going to pass.

 

 

It happens to everyone.. from the moment that you lose 3 times in a row just close it and go relax..  

[JeTBarionIV]

WOW!!!

218 pages on the topic MM.

Needless to say, I don't have the time nor the inclination to read all of them.

At the same time I'm sure somebody already posted what I'm about to expose as my take on the subject.

 

As said at the beginning this is something that will never fully find a definitive solution, but there is room to work on it:

- The +/- 2 system is acceptable, if not a necessity to avoid making the Queue's waiting time endless.

- The change in 0.8.7 was also ok, but has its limitations for the same reason.

Ofc, my suggestion is to avoid especially Tier 8 when the server population falls below a certain threshold, usually around 10PM as it's almost guarantee one is gonna to end up in a Tier 10 match.

 

What really WG needs to fix ASAP is the balancing of the 2 facing team, no matter the Tier.

That is, to consider both:

- the Average Account performance

- the Average Ship performance (aka how well does one performs on the specific ship he's about to play)

 

Too many time a simple glance to "WOWS Monitor" and/or "Potato Alert" at the start of the match will tell me how is going to end up simply because the MM failed to address these issues correctly.

Naturally there are exceptions, by mere luck or because, out of boldness, the stronger team gets overconfident and pushes too hard.

But these, as I said, are exceptions.

 

So, WG... what is going to be?

Cuz I tell you, there are times I'm tempted to exit the battle right away...

 

[TunaRoll]

Am 23.6.2021 um 16:04, Darkeid sagte:

And also remember , it is possible that the next match in a row might be like this:

 

So dont pay attention to the non-official WG employess trying to prove you crazy. MM is working in a way that uneven matches happen.

100% true.

[TunaRoll]

Am 23.6.2021 um 17:17, Mcfly666 sagte:

After playing for a while in ranked today I've got to say Wargaming are bloody useless. I'm not the best player by any means but I'm CONSTANTLY being put in teams where players have really low stats. Players with sub 40%WR and a few hundred battles under their belt, where the other team has players where they each have 5k+ battles and 50/60% WR's.

Is that this the limit of Russian/Belarusian programming? Surely the Dev's can do better than this? 

If Wargaming want players to spend their hard earned on this game they should do a better job, MM is an absolute JOKE.

After my premium time/Gold is used up I'm going to put this game to the bottom of a pile, I'd rather play with traffic or learn how to fly off a bridge.

They dont want to change the game for the better, it is clealry against their strategic view of how the the should be. The best thing one can do is stop spending money and to move on. There are awesome, fair and cheaper games out there. We dont have to sit with WoWs and wait until its completely broken by WG.

[MannequinSkywalker]

Apparently, WG removed the hard cap of 5 DDs per side.

Next level; 7 DDs 4 CVs and 1 BB/side...Hi5 WG!

 

[KillSwitch]

I have a question. Does reporting players change MM? I was chatbanned 2 days ago and since then I have terrible MM where I loose 80%+ of battles and even if I had a kraken every single battle it wouldnt help. Months before without ban I had 60+ WR. Now in last 30-40 battles I had decent team maybe 5 times.

[ColonelPete]

10 minutes ago, KillSwitch said:

I have a question. Does reporting players change MM?

No.