Matchmaker Discussion Thread & MM Balance

[Timber_MG]

15 minutes ago, Birkebein said:

 without camo, without modules, without combat flags, and without a skilled captain in absurd non-meta ships for "reasons"

One presumes these things are secondary to the actual reasons.

 

The playerbase is evidently on a trajectory. This along with game changes just means that for me I have taken to other things and moved on. RIP WOWS, it was fun.

 

 

[KapteinSabeltann]

Thread is two years old. MM is as bad as it ever was. Maybe close it and just ban MM posts altogether?

[LemonidasM]

You guys with your graphs and charts are absolutely out of reality . Look at the real live numbers. And you try to tell us about matchmaking and selecting players from your range.
See the below and tell me about mm range and slaughter which happens in every damned game. 

 

As far as i understand you intentionaly keep players for canon fodder and other specific players you give RNG with the tons. I used to actively support wargaming in several communities but no more.
Your charts say nothing to me since one day of the week its godly RNG and the rest of the days RNG makes you miss targets at 6 km.
 

[ColonelPete]

15 minutes ago, lemonidasm said:

As far as i understand you intentionaly keep players for canon fodder and other specific players you give RNG with the tons. I used to actively support wargaming in several communities but no more.
Your charts say nothing to me since one day of the week its godly RNG and the rest of the days RNG makes you miss targets at 6 km.

But you do not understand, that is your problem.

[LemonidasM]

47 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

But you do not understand, that is your problem.

Ohhh wow its you again , well explain since you know everything then , or are you here only for ironic comments ? 

[ForlornSailor]

1 hour ago, lemonidasm said:

As far as i understand you intentionaly keep players for canon fodder and other specific players you give RNG with the tons. I used to actively support wargaming in several communities but no more.
Your charts say nothing to me since one day of the week its godly RNG and the rest of the days RNG makes you miss targets at 6 km.

 

Lets assume you are right - shouldnt you guys, who get Shaft´ed by WG for... whatever reason, beat us, the ones who enjoy the glorified mm for... whatever reason us in clanwars, KotS and everywhere? Yet, forr some reason, we see the same guys come on top of those competitions aswell.

 

And another thing strikes me in that logic. So good players with pink WR arent good. They are just enjoying awesome mm, right? awesome mm means what, they get better players on their team, right? How do you idetifiy them? because they have pink stats aswell. But you just claimed, they arent good players, they are just getting lucky with mm. So they are ALL just lucky with mm while beeing worse players than you are - so you claim. Then why dont you beat them in randoms aswell?? Afterall, they suck! you are better!

 

What is this logic?

[LemonidasM]

1 minute ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

Lets assume you are right - shouldnt you guys, who get Shaft´ed by WG for... whatever reason, beat us, the ones who enjoy the glorified mm for... whatever reason beat us in clanwars, KotS and everywhere? Yet, forr some reason, we see the same guys come on top of those competitions aswell.

 

And another thing strikes me in that logic. So goot players with pink WR arent good. They are just enjoying awesome mm, right? awesome mm means what, they get better players on their team, right? How do you idetifiy them? because they have pink stats aswell. But you just claimed, they arent good players, they are just getting lucky with mm. So they are ALL just lucky with mm while beeing worse players than you are - so you claim. Then why dont you beat them in randoms aswell?? Afterall, they suck! you are better!

 

What is this logic?

I do not claim look at the screenshot 

[ForlornSailor]

Just now, lemonidasm said:

I do not claim look at the screenshot  

 

Yes I did. But you say, correct me if I got it wrong: you only lost because the guys with the good stats on the enemy team enjoy better mm and WG gives you bad mm. So their Winrate means nothing and they actually arent good players. So the enemy team is actually not good,, according to you. Then why dont you beat them? Whats actually stopping you?

[LemonidasM]

19 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

Yes I did. But you say, correct me if I got it wrong: you only lost because the guys with the good stats on the enemy team enjoy better mm and WG gives you bad mm. So their Winrate means nothing and they actually arent good players. So the enemy team is actually not good,, according to you. Then why dont you beat them? Whats actually stopping you?

errmm the rest of the team friend. Its not a single player game and i think their numbers say everything. 

[The_Lone_Neutron]

After a long period and a lot of games I decided to give up. I will play barely  this game, even so. I am not in war games "for fun". I feel no fun losing so many games because  my team's mate DD players are or complete useels or suicidal from first 2 minutes or BB players cannot hit a target. MM is a s...t and to make all worst, the statistics are about how the game is sh...ng on us. I lost the lust to play. Its make me to nervous. Too many times have no matter if you play or not, the team is useless and this is too much. Probably the game is on the way to grave, the  extension on rewards for new players is showing me this. And I think I not the only which leave the game because it is too stressful to play it, to lose so often because of too unbalanced MM.  I cannot accept MM to make me rank 1 for two sprints in row and keep me at 8-9 after rank 5 max. on the third. As I said... I lost the interest, I cannot come to play 20 minutes to be just the target of others because the MM is what it is...

 

PS: I do not care what Wargames are doing with MM, anyway this one is a joke. I do not count anymore on the "big players" with over 60% win rate because it is a lie... I saw them in rank...

 

PSS: And i condemn the political correctness which made me banned on chat so many times because I call the idiots as "idiots"... According to the new PC dictionary and vocabulary, they are the leaders and future of the IDIOCRACY...

[159Hunter]

22 hours ago, lemonidasm said:

 

You can moan all you want about charts but they are far more valid than one screenshot. Every time someone comes to complain they post one screenshot and in 90% of the cases it's about a game they themselves lost.

Why don't gather screenshots from all your games for an extended period of time and post them all. That would show something. A single one does not

[DFens_666]

17 minutes ago, 159Hunter said:

You can moan all you want about charts but they are far more valid than one screenshot. Every time someone comes to complain they post one screenshot and in 90% of the cases it's about a game they themselves lost.

Why don't gather screenshots from all your games for an extended period of time and post them all. That would show something. A single one does not

 

As if that ever happens... we all know those certain people, who come in here once a month or even less often, then they provide a few screenshots how MM is rigged because they were unlucky (but in reality its rigged, but only when the sun is shining at full moon at exactly 2:45 AM while sitting on the ocean floor watching WoWs vids on YT). Then they get past the unlucky streak and play again for weeks/months without getting "rigged" MM, only to come back in here when they were in the worse team 2 times in a row.

[floribe2000]

Removed some insulting, provoking and unconstructive posts.

[ghostbuster_]

On 4/25/2021 at 9:38 PM, lemonidasm said:

You guys with your graphs and charts are absolutely out of reality . Look at the real live numbers. And you try to tell us about matchmaking and selecting players from your range.
See the below and tell me about mm range and slaughter which happens in every damned game. 

 

As far as i understand you intentionaly keep players for canon fodder and other specific players you give RNG with the tons. I used to actively support wargaming in several communities but no more.
Your charts say nothing to me since one day of the week its godly RNG and the rest of the days RNG makes you miss targets at 6 km.
 

just a question, how long did it take you to create this post? how long did you think? 

 

next time, dont push your limits that much. you might burn your hardware. 

[Pukovnik7]

On 4/26/2021 at 8:10 PM, DFens_666 said:

 

As if that ever happens... we all know those certain people, who come in here once a month or even less often, then they provide a few screenshots how MM is rigged because they were unlucky (but in reality its rigged, but only when the sun is shining at full moon at exactly 2:45 AM while sitting on the ocean floor watching WoWs vids on YT). Then they get past the unlucky streak and play again for weeks/months without getting "rigged" MM, only to come back in here when they were in the worse team 2 times in a row.

Except it is rigged. Vast majority of the games I have played felt predetermined. Yes, one player can have an impact... but never without support. And majority of the games I have played recently... felt as if I had no impact. Whether I put in zero performance or unicum performance, not only did it not impact the ultimate outcome of the match but it would fail to impact even the flow of the match at all, simply because team imbalance is so massive. Just in my last match, I held a flank against a superior enemy force, in a ship that is very much not designed for such a job... three kills, two Close Quarters Experts, a Dreadnought, and a fourth enemy ship effectively neutralized (a cruiser which I forced to hide behind an island)... but our center and flank completely collapsed and the enemy got the cap. Literally only kill our Fuso got was an enemy destroyer who made a mistake of trying to sniff out the corner where said Fuso as well as Warspite and Ryujo huddled in fear...

 

And this was in Dunkerque. A bloody massive cruiser with a shotgun strapped to the front, wet cardboard for armour, and a paint made from gasoline. The only good thing about the match was that the enemy carrier was about as useful as our own... which is to say, I forgot that it was there about five minutes in, and never really got a proper reminder.

 

Not that matches where I am in a winning team are much better. A lot of time, unless I am in a destroyer (and sometimes even then) it feels as if I am basically in a movie theater, watching the events unfold without ever having any impact on them.

 

As I said before: I like winning and I don't mind losing, but only if I have to work for it. If I feel like I can twiddle my thumbs for most of the match because the outcome is predetermined anyway, then it is not the game I want to play.

[DFens_666]

41 minutes ago, Pukovnik7 said:

Except it is rigged. Vast majority of the games I have played felt predetermined. Yes, one player can have an impact... but never without support. And majority of the games I have played recently... felt as if I had no impact. Whether I put in zero performance or unicum performance, not only did it not impact the ultimate outcome of the match but it would fail to impact even the flow of the match at all, simply because team imbalance is so massive. Just in my last match, I held a flank against a superior enemy force, in a ship that is very much not designed for such a job... three kills, two Close Quarters Experts, a Dreadnought, and a fourth enemy ship effectively neutralized (a cruiser which I forced to hide behind an island)... but our center and flank completely collapsed and the enemy got the cap. Literally only kill our Fuso got was an enemy destroyer who made a mistake of trying to sniff out the corner where said Fuso as well as Warspite and Ryujo huddled in fear...

 

And this was in Dunkerque. A bloody massive cruiser with a shotgun strapped to the front, wet cardboard for armour, and a paint made from gasoline. The only good thing about the match was that the enemy carrier was about as useful as our own... which is to say, I forgot that it was there about five minutes in, and never really got a proper reminder.

 

Not that matches where I am in a winning team are much better. A lot of time, unless I am in a destroyer (and sometimes even then) it feels as if I am basically in a movie theater, watching the events unfold without ever having any impact on them.

 

As I said before: I like winning and I don't mind losing, but only if I have to work for it. If I feel like I can twiddle my thumbs for most of the match because the outcome is predetermined anyway, then it is not the game I want to play.

 

Well the problem is, the majority of matches are out of your hand. 3/10 you win - 3/10 you lose no matter what you do. So thats already 6 out of 10 games which basicly just go by. And then you also need a bigger sample size than a handful of games, because looking at like 10 games individually might not necessarily mean, that any of those could have had a different outcome if you would have done something differently. And if you look at carrying 4 out of 10 games - which would put you at 70% WR - you would need to be one of the best players in the game. Essentially there are different levels of "carrying"

40%: Dont be AFK

50%: carry your own weight. So basicly just play a long and get an average performance.

60%: Need to perform consistently all the time without making too many mistakes. You need to have good map awareness, target selection and understand pros and cons of your/the enemies ships.

70%: Basicly no mistakes ever. Most likely playing meta/strong ships aswell.

80%: Well yes, thats achievable by playing the most OP ships in the game, like Enterprise, and be in the top 0,1% of the playerbase. But getting 80% solo WR is basicly impossible.

[Pukovnik7]

18 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Well the problem is, the majority of matches are out of your hand. 3/10 you win - 3/10 you lose no matter what you do. So thats already 6 out of 10 games which basicly just go by. And then you also need a bigger sample size than a handful of games, because looking at like 10 games individually might not necessarily mean, that any of those could have had a different outcome if you would have done something differently. And if you look at carrying 4 out of 10 games - which would put you at 70% WR - you would need to be one of the best players in the game. Essentially there are different levels of "carrying"

40%: Dont be AFK

50%: carry your own weight. So basicly just play a long and get an average performance.

60%: Need to perform consistently all the time without making too many mistakes. You need to have good map awareness, target selection and understand pros and cons of your/the enemies ships.

70%: Basicly no mistakes ever. Most likely playing meta/strong ships aswell.

80%: Well yes, thats achievable by playing the most OP ships in the game, like Enterprise, and be in the top 0,1% of the playerbase. But getting 80% solo WR is basicly impossible.

Yes, I know. And I have no problem with that: this is a team game, after all, and the team as a whole must perform. But that is precisely why the matchmaking is so important: you want to have balanced teams. A close match is fun, even if you lose in the end. A landslide is not fun regardless of the outcome. As I wrote:

1 hour ago, Pukovnik7 said:

I like winning and I don't mind losing, but only if I have to work for it.

 

[KHETTIFER]

MM is totally working , match didn't even last 2 minutes, fact is in random battles the MM consistently stacks one team, it's boring, not even remotely competitive.

Matches like this is just wasting everyones time, time that could be spent playing an actual PvP game.

[ForlornSailor]

1 hour ago, KHETTIFER said:

MM is totally working , match didn't even last 2 minutes, fact is in random battles the MM consistently stacks one team, it's boring, not even remotely competitive. 

Matches like this is just wasting everyones time, time that could be spent playing an actual PvP game.

 

well you had an afk Mogami and a 3x divi of really good players against you - what you want mm to do about it? how should the mm forsee, that one on your team is going to afk, for whatever reason? I know, if wouldnt have changed the outcome of the match, but still?

[Pukovnik7]

1 hour ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

well you had an afk Mogami and a 3x divi of really good players against you - what you want mm to do about it? how should the mm forsee, that one on your team is going to afk, for whatever reason? I know, if wouldnt have changed the outcome of the match, but still?

It can be balanced by PR, WR etc.

[KHETTIFER]

2 hours ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

well you had an afk Mogami and a 3x divi of really good players against you - what you want mm to do about it? how should the mm forsee, that one on your team is going to afk, for whatever reason? I know, if wouldnt have changed the outcome of the match, but still?

there's more than a 20% w/r difference between teams, and i've had this all day in just about every match, so yeah, that's called match fixing.

Can't balance divisions then remove them from random battles, they are one of the primary sources of balance issues in matches, groups in a balanced game are a force multipler, and considering WoWs has no balance at all it's an even larger force multipler.

Pre-decided outcomes is not PvP

[surfer_gr]

On 4/25/2021 at 12:11 PM, ColonelPete said:

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/dense_winrate_20210220_e.png

you know something looking at that table i noticed a few things first thtas a sample of 1 milion accounts that logged in in a particualr day and plaied in total 5.7 milion battles therefore on avaerage almost 6 battles a day- and of those accounts the ones in the range of 100to <500 are more than the 60% orf the player base that particular day? now you wonder why the MM is the way it is? LOLs .... as well somone with a few 100s batles can easily insrease or decrease the wr only by loosing or winning a fdew someone with 30k battles to increase 1% his wr has to do over 310 straight wins ..... this table says nothing me to me except that the vast majority of the accounts that play this game are new accounts generally if this table is the usual daily patern so this says a tonne why things are the way it is  oks is simple enough i think 70% of the player base that plays daily has a total numbaer of battles of less than 1K thats why MM by wr etc etc pr etc etc makes no sence i think :P if what i understand by reading that data is what it is LOLs  new players new ships grinding no skilled captains i suppose .....would be interesting to know the tiers they play also and the classes lols

p.s i always assume  that that data is a representative sample of what accounts are active daily

 

if that is correct the whole meaning of this MM wr etc etc topic is pointless LOL

[ColonelPete]

4 hours ago, surfer_gr said:

if that is correct the whole meaning of this MM wr etc etc topic is pointless LOL

No, that is wrong. That table obviously does not show daily battles as nobody plays 20k battles per day.

The table shows the accounts of players with more than 100 battles on the EU server.

[159Hunter]

7 hours ago, Pukovnik7 said:

It can be balanced by PR, WR etc.

In this topic it has been explained over and over why WR based mm won't work.

PR alone is a useless metric.

 

@KHETTIFER please post the screens of all other matches please. You say you had 20% wr diffetence in all of them, statistically possible but very improbable.

 

I still don't understand why everyone keeps insisting that one screenshot of a lost game shows rigged mm.

[Pukovnik7]

2 hours ago, 159Hunter said:

In this topic it has been explained over and over why WR based mm won't work.

PR alone is a useless metric.

 

@KHETTIFER please post the screens of all other matches please. You say you had 20% wr diffetence in all of them, statistically possible but very improbable.

 

I still don't understand why everyone keeps insisting that one screenshot of a lost game shows rigged mm.

Combination of PR and WR should work. At the very least, it will ensure that lemmings / AFK players do not get all thrown into one team.