Matchmaker Discussion Thread & MM Balance

[159Hunter]

2 hours ago, xe_N_on said:

In a competitive pvp team game

Agree 100%, just one small change in your text. WoWs isn't really competitive, it's more a causal pvp game. 

Doesn't change your post otherwise.

[COPlUM]

14 hours ago, 159Hunter said:

This is just...

Speechless....

Yeah not naming names because I'm not a complete jerk but twelve thousand games, 2K average damage in T10 and 0.01K/d = Die 100 times for every ship he kills. He's over in the German section of this forum giving advice and telling other people to git gud.

[RamboCras]

On 4/7/2021 at 10:06 AM, NikolayKuznetsov said:

I didn't know it was 80%, is it really? But I've seen this too, you see suprisingly few people with average stats. Random teams are mostly a sea of red, sometimes with one or two unicums. Whichever potato team has one or two unicums wins. Like I got this as my first enemy team today, they lost 12 ships vs our 0 losses before the first 5 minutes were up. I had to speedboost yolo into something to get some damage done before the game was over.

 

One of these guys was in a north carolina and didn't know how DCP works, he didn't use it, it's not that he blew it on one fire and then got fires stacked on his ship, he just never used it. I got 4 fires ticking on him and he never used it, he just kept sailing in a straight line with 4 fires on his ship and didn't put it out. Why are people with 60 games in T8, they installed the game yesterday.

I don't like winning this way. As you say, if you are unlucky you have to race to other caps to make some damage.

[Fatal_Ramses]

Friday night, prime time. 2x tier V games that were 10v10. Is this game running out of new players because of recent game changes?

I've had some fun years playing this game, but my premium time is running out in 40days and thats a first time since winter of 2018.

With the state of CVs and cmdr rework I have no intentions of getting  more premium time.

 

*Edit

sorry, winter of 2018 not 2019.

[Helgey]

Well WG's croonies might not like that we dont love their mm system, according to them the mm is to make it so that in 20% of the battles you are to bwe bottom tier,...   this is BS

Tested out today with T6 in 8 games the result as follows: T6-T6-T7-T8-T8-T7-T8-T8; This shows that it was bottom tier in 50% of the maches, so what you guys smoke in there im not shure of but it cant be tobacco.

[159Hunter]

1 minute ago, Helgey said:

Well WG's croonies might not like that we dont love their mm system, according to them the mm is to make it so that in 20% of the battles you are to bwe bottom tier,...   this is BS

Tested out today with T6 in 8 games the result as follows: T6-T6-T7-T8-T8-T7-T8-T8; This shows that it was bottom tier in 50% of the maches, so what you guys smoke in there im not shure of but it cant be tobacco.

You need a statistics 101 course it seems.

[DFens_666]

5 minutes ago, Helgey said:

according to them the mm is to make it so that in 20% of the battles you are to bwe bottom tier,

 

Never did they say 20%... the only thing i believe they said was, that T8 will face T10 like 60% of the time or something. Other tiers have different numbers, and those numbers are simple logic. The higher you go, the more people play each tier. so if you have 1000 people play T10, and 800 T8 and 600 T6, naturally, you will be lowtier more often. The only tier, which was played more than the next higher up was T6 vs T7 last time i checked. Again, this makes sense because T7 is such a poor tier to play these days, because you are constantly uptiered against T9, so people choose not to play T7.

Best tiers to play are T9, or T10 if all you care is not being lowtier.

[HP3070]

On 3/12/2021 at 6:40 AM, 159Hunter said:

Wrong. The goal is to create games with equal line ups between classes, divisions and tiers (thus not looking at individual players and ships) as fast as possible.

 

You do realize that this is exactly the same statement as before, yet you see the two as contradictions. Cause you know, always creating 50/50 win games will move people to a 50% WR.

The fact that you don't understand that those statements are NOT the same tells me everything I need to know about your understanding of statistics. Kinda pointless to discuss paintings with a blind man, don't you think?

 

Have you ever heard about σ² ?

[Sambor0]

To much to say and nothing to say! How keep calm with this MM. It was WG crap show.

[COPlUM]

I can't do it anymore, matchmaker has broken me, this has been going on for weeks now, it's relentless, it does not stop, it's never going to stop.

I know it's random but if I randomly end up on the bad team for a month at this point, it's time for me to realize the random matchmaker just doesn't like me anymore.

Putting all the good players on one team isn't enough, you have to give them 100% of the radar too in a 9v9 with 10 destroyers in the match.

Why can't you find 24 people to play the game at 20h45 in the evening anyway? Why am I seeing 9v9 games at 20h30? That stuff used to happen at 5 in the morning.

 

[ColonelPete]

12 minutes ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

I can't do it anymore, matchmaker has broken me, this has been going on for weeks now, it's relentless, it does not stop, it's never going to stop.

I know it's random but if I randomly end up on the bad team for a month at this point,

...

Then I wonder why you have won more than usual in your past three weeks...

 

[COPlUM]

3 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Then I wonder why you have won more than usual in your past three weeks...

Where are you seeing that and what do you mean by usual, I don't care how I'm doing compared to when I was a 43% potato my first 2500 games.



I went from six months with 55-58% WR (november-march) down to 50% in recent weeks, with all my other stats going up as usual.
And these websites don't see what I'm seeing on wows monitor, teams I'm getting is terrible.
I'm often here saying calm down, on average it's fair, I still think it is but at times matchmaker just punches you in the gut for days or weeks.

[ColonelPete]

1 minute ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

Where are you seeing that and what do you mean by usual, I don't care how I'm doing compared to when I was a 43% potato my first 2500 games.



I went from six months with 55-58% WR (november-march) down to 50% in recent weeks, with all my other stats going up as usual.
And these websites don't see what I'm seeing on wows monitor, teams I'm getting is terrible.
I'm often here saying calm down, on average it's fair, I still think it is but at times matchmaker just punches you in the gut for days or weeks.

Usual, as in overall WR.

Your WR in the last three weeks was better than that.

Your WR in 2021 is also significantly better than in 2020.

 

It becomes problematic when you compare short time trends with other short time trends. When you compare your best with your worst performance, then yes, you will see a significant difference. But with teams this big, short time trends do not mean much.

[COPlUM]

47 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Usual, as in overall WR.

Your WR in the last three weeks was better than that.

Your WR in 2021 is also significantly better than in 2020.

It becomes problematic when you compare short time trends with other short time trends. When you compare your best with your worst performance, then yes, you will see a significant difference. But with teams this big, short time trends do not mean much.

Yeah 2021 was better than 2020, but I don't feel like I should be looking at my overall WR for this purpose, I was a 43% potato until last summer. I started improving dramatically since I came back to the game late summer-autumn 2020, six months with 55%-58% WR . Dragged myself up from 43 overall to 51-52 overall, improving like that just stopped recently, and I don't feel like it's my personal performance, I'm also not playing tilted or playing ships I don't like, numbers indicate I'm not doing anything different. The only thing that stopped going up and even started dropping a bit for the first time in six months is winrate. This month I'm down about 8 percentage points compared to the last 6 months, I know 50% and change is what I have overall but I haven't been playing like a 50% player in a long time so I don't feel it's relevant, my worst month was december with 55. I could go beat people up in T5-T6 to get back on track but I never do that, shouldn't have to do it now.

*edit : Is there any way to see what ships i've been playing lately? To check if maybe that has something to do with it, I remember struggling really bad in Kagero but I can't remember what other ships i've been playing last couple weeks.

[ColonelPete]

49 minutes ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

Yeah 2021 was better than 2020, but I don't feel like I should be looking at my overall WR for this purpose, I was a 43% potato until last summer. I started improving dramatically since I came back to the game late summer-autumn 2020, six months with 55%-58% WR . 

And that is a short time trend. It is possible you were a bit lucky.

50 minutes ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

This month I'm down about 8 percentage points compared to the last 6 months, 

And another short term trend. It is possible you were a bit unlucky.

 

The site you were using lists the ships you were playing during a specific time frame. Click on 2021 and you see only the battles from that year.

When you edit the adress page, you can even select specific time frames.

[HardCandy89]

8 hours ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

Yeah 2021 was better than 2020, but I don't feel like I should be looking at my overall WR for this purpose, I was a 43% potato until last summer. I started improving dramatically since I came back to the game late summer-autumn 2020, six months with 55%-58% WR . Dragged myself up from 43 overall to 51-52 overall, improving like that just stopped recently, and I don't feel like it's my personal performance, I'm also not playing tilted or playing ships I don't like, numbers indicate I'm not doing anything different. The only thing that stopped going up and even started dropping a bit for the first time in six months is winrate. This month I'm down about 8 percentage points compared to the last 6 months, I know 50% and change is what I have overall but I haven't been playing like a 50% player in a long time so I don't feel it's relevant, my worst month was december with 55. I could go beat people up in T5-T6 to get back on track but I never do that, shouldn't have to do it now.

*edit : Is there any way to see what ships i've been playing lately? To check if maybe that has something to do with it, I remember struggling really bad in Kagero but I can't remember what other ships i've been playing last couple weeks.

Wows Numbers website shows your matches from the last 21 days, it's the maximum time distance in which you can check the performance in every ship you used, as far as I know. Just go there, find your profile and in the main table where you see your stats from "recently", 7 and 21 days, choose the option "details" (at the bottom of this main table) - a pop up window with all ships used in that time will open. 

I don't know how one can check the performance of every ship in a longer time frame than 21 days. But this is still a good way to see some trends for each ship you used. 

[ColonelPete]

3 minutes ago, HardCandy89 said:

Wows Numbers website shows your matches from the last 21 days, it's the maximum time distance in which you can check the performance in every ship you used, as far as I know. Just go there, find your profile and in the main table where you see your stats from "recently", 7 and 21 days, choose the option "details" (at the bottom of this main table) - a pop up window with all ships used in that time will open. 

I don't know how one can check the performance of every ship in a longer time frame than 21 days. But this is still a good way to see some trends for each ship you used. 

Your games in Dez 2019:

https://proships.ru/stat/eu/p/514361045-HardCandy89/all/h/2019-12-01~2019-12-30/

[HardCandy89]

27 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Your games in Dez 2019:

https://proships.ru/stat/eu/p/514361045-HardCandy89/all/h/2019-12-01~2019-12-30/

How can I find it by myself for a given amount of time? :)

[ColonelPete]

35 minutes ago, HardCandy89 said:

How can I find it by myself for a given amount of time? :)

Edit the dates in the adress line.

 

That is for 4 months:

https://proships.ru/stat/eu/p/514361045-HardCandy89/all/h/2019-12-01~2020-03-30/

 

You can select any day from summer 2019 onwards.

[HardCandy89]

28 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Edit the dates in the adress line.

 

That is for 4 months:

https://proships.ru/stat/eu/p/514361045-HardCandy89/all/h/2019-12-01~2020-03-30/

 

You can select any day from summer 2019 onwards.

Aaaah I see! In the beginning I thought that you mean still the Wows Numbers page, but then I saw that this is a different address. But this is a good way to see how the performance improves or varies through longer periods. It's very interesting, thanks a lot. 

[arttuperkunas]

Tier 10 matchmaking - I took a long hiatus from T10, and now that I've recently played some games in T10, I found the MM to be surprisingly crap, worse than mid or low tiers. I started wondering why.

 

My feeling is that the skill gap is enormous at T10, bigger than at lower tiers. In other words, you have the same hopeless potatoes that you get at T5-8, but you also have very experienced players, who really stand out particularly when playing in divisions. It almost feels like the middle is missing, i.e. you have 45% win rate and 55%+ win rate players, and the latter almost invariably decide the game. The skill gap is exacerbated by the nature of T10 ships, as there is very little room for error particularly when playing cruisers or DDs. It's very easy to overextend and die quickly, and the errors you might get away with in low- or mid-tier will be mercilessly punished.

[GarrusBrutus]

2 hours ago, arttuperkunas said:

Tier 10 matchmaking - I took a long hiatus from T10, and now that I've recently played some games in T10, I found the MM to be surprisingly crap, worse than mid or low tiers. I started wondering why.

 

My feeling is that the skill gap is enormous at T10, bigger than at lower tiers. In other words, you have the same hopeless potatoes that you get at T5-8, but you also have very experienced players, who really stand out particularly when playing in divisions. It almost feels like the middle is missing, i.e. you have 45% win rate and 55%+ win rate players, and the latter almost invariably decide the game. The skill gap is exacerbated by the nature of T10 ships, as there is very little room for error particularly when playing cruisers or DDs. It's very easy to overextend and die quickly, and the errors you might get away with in low- or mid-tier will be mercilessly punished.

Correct. That is why you increasing numbers of players with less than 20k average damage on Tier 10. Quite baffling if you ask me. But its a direct consequence of the direction WG is taking with the game: Push players to high tiers as soon as possible by making them spend as much as possible.

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

Perfect 

 

[Besserwisser3000]

Vor 6 Stunden, arttuperkunas sagte:

It almost feels like the middle is missing, i.e. you have 45% win rate and 55%+ win rate players, and the latter almost invariably decide the game.

 

On the contrary, the potatoes are deciding the outcome of the match. The team with more usually loses.

 

[bloodynicknames]

16 hours ago, Besserwisser3000 said:

 

On the contrary, the potatoes are deciding the outcome of the match. The team with more usually loses.

 

this. I keep hearing people say "Oh, whoever has the better players wins" but in my experience it's the opposite, whoever has the biggest potatoes looses. 
I've seen this time and time again. A decent player or two can hold a flank by themselves but if the rest of the teams just collapses or goes to a camping party at J1 while Red team holds 2/3 caps, theres nothing you can do about that. 

I give you this epic screenshot of a an epicenter game, just look at where the team is at.