Matchmaker Discussion Thread & MM Balance

[DFens_666]

1 minute ago, Wolf_Harms said:

What I see is: the TEAMS I am in loose 7 from 10 fights.

 

https://wows-numbers.com/de/player/569972785,Wolf_Harms/

 

Well, thats not entirely accurate... you currently have 46% WR (almost 47%) and last week its 47,6%. So definetely not 3 wins out of 10, its closer to 5 out of 10. And with 47% you are basicly right around the median WR of wows players. A bit more than half of the players have a better WR than you. (~48% is the median).

 

3 minutes ago, Wolf_Harms said:

And you are SERIOUSLY trying to tell me, that this is only so, because I AM PLAYING BAD?
Me, personally, I am loosing all those battles for my whole team?

 

Not every game ofc, as i wrote earlier, you lose 3 out of 10 by default. Only a handful of people can get more than 70% Solo WR, and almost everyone of those is playing CVs, because CVs have a higher match influence.

Also you cant look at one evening seperately and say "oh well but i lost 9 in a row" or something like that, because that can happen. But over a larger sample size, only your skill matters.

 

12 minutes ago, Wolf_Harms said:

It should be OBVIOUS, that I can NOT win a round with 7 vs 7 players. I am not SUPERMAN.

 

Some people can win up to 80% in 7v7s, so its possible. Ofc not everyone can do this, as we are all different and not everyone can be a top notch player even if they would try.

 

13 minutes ago, Wolf_Harms said:

And here I can only assume: it is because you put the potatoes into one team, and the aces into the other.

 

No.

Should i show you what teammates i have? heck, i posted a screenshot above, check my teammates, one of them had 41% WR...

[COPlUM]

1 minute ago, Wolf_Harms said:

 

OK - then ONE LAST QUESTION: why the hell are the guys like you never in my TEAM ? .... 

But we are in your team, do what I said, install monitor. You will see we are in your team, write it down in a notepad if you want. The bigger your sample size gets, the closer you will get to 50%, for every 44% on your team, you'll get me, for every teammate with 39%, you'll get Dfens or Forlorn. If you add it all up -because this is how averages work- the average will be 50%, because of this, only your performance can make you go under 50% or over 50%. My account is literally a graph showing I was just as bad as you 9 months ago and now I'm crushing it, why on earth would you not believe me. God I wish someone tried this hard to help me when I had your stats, why am I even doing this.

[DFens_666]

5 minutes ago, Wolf_Harms said:

 

OK - then ONE LAST QUESTION: why the hell are the guys like you never in my TEAM ? .... 

 

Because 60% players are pretty rare, i think its less than 1% of the playerbase.

So statistically you might get one on your team every 8 games or so (maybe even less). (because half the time we can end up on the enemy team too, so 8 games are almost 200 players)

[Wolf_Harms]

I must go to bed now. Thx for your tips, Nikolai.
Plsw don't think they were wasted. I will check them tomorrow. I may even follow them. 

 

But even if I should become a real good player like you, I would still not be prepared to believe I was the SUPERMAN who made the whole team win.
My question would still remain: why wasn't there a top player like that in the other TEAM? I'm sure you have the data to balance that.

 

And even a top-notch player, I would not like to win, only because the other team was weaker than mine.

 

Don't get me wrong: WoWS is a wonderful creation.
What I like best is that you avoided the "rewards meta systems" so many other games suffer from.
In that aspect, WoWS is very fair. Even the SHOP ships have not only good qualities, but also lack something in comparison to the ingame counterparts.
That is a great achievement - the devs can really be proud of that. 

 

The TEAM BALANCE is the only major point that makes WoWS sour for me.

[Wolf_Harms]

Okay, thanks for your patience - I will keep this all in mind, will do some "homework", and see if I will get anywhere with it.
But now it is really sleeping time here in Berlin.
If you are in Russia, you must be on night shift??? Or do you sleep on weekends only??

 

 

[COPlUM]

7 minutes ago, Wolf_Harms said:

OK - then ONE LAST QUESTION: why the hell are the guys like you never in my TEAM ? .... 

We are and we complain about it all the time taking screenshots of you, not you personally but, you know what I mean. The way we play is we look at both teams using MMM and put matches in 4 categories :

A - Is our team better? Push hard to get some damage done, this game will be over in 7 minutes
B - Is our team equal? Just play.
C - Is our team bad? We "make plays" (=Do cool stuff you haven't even thought of doing - this is what I was telling you earlier)

D - Is our team horrible? We play like scumbags - we pad our damage numbers instead of trying to win

 

You win category A, you sometimes win category B, you never win category C and you explode with 4K damage in category D
We win category A, we almost always win category B, we sometimes win category C and we do 250K damage in category D

Learning game mechanics will let you win more in category B and C, your winrate will go up, do you get it now?

[Wolf_Harms]

Not sure - I'm rather dizzy. But that may be from the beer I just drank. I will think about it all, and re-read all you wrote here, when I have had some sleep. Okay?
See you - and thx for your patience!

[COPlUM]

6 minutes ago, Wolf_Harms said:

My question would still remain: why wasn't there a top player like that in the other TEAM?

Sometimes there is, if Forlorn and Dfens are both in opposite teams with a bunch of potatoes, it comes down to which one of them does a better job of carrying 11 other people across the finish line.

 

There is also math and scumbag tactics involved, for example I'm something inbetween you and Dfens/Forlorn, if I am the best player on your team and Dfens is the best player on the enemy team, I might "trade" with him, if I'm in the right ship to do it, kill him and kill myself in the process, because I know that if I don't, nobody else will and he's going to murder all of you.

 

This all depends on the ship, if he's in a shima and I'm in a Daring, I'll charge into him to kill him before he kills my potatoes. If I'm in a baltimore and he's in a lightning I'll zone him out so he can't devastate my potato battleship teammates.

 

There's many things going on behind the scenes you don't understand because you're a potato, I do not mean this as an insult in any way, I was a potato, everyone was a potato. The difference is I was a potato for 2.000 rounds, you're one after 3.000 rounds, it's not too late, some are a potato for 35.000 rounds and they're still blaming matchmaker instead of improving their play.

The only way to stop being a potato is acknowledge that the average winrate is 50% - Matchmaking is fair because on average your teammates and the enemies will be 50% - Because of this, the only way to win more than 50% of your games is develop the qualities of a 55% player, or a 60% player.

 

The saddest people in this game have 35.000 games and they still suck, not because they didn't spend the time (they obviously did) - But because they had the mindset you had until 15 minutes ago : Why bother improving, it's rigged, my team sucks yadda yadda yadda.

Install matchmaking monitor, find the best winrate player on your team and look at them after you die. You will see them do things and think "Woah, damn, that's brilliant, no wonder these guys win so much" - I have been a 60%WR player for 9 straight months now and I still do this I just had a minotaur on my team get a kraken in a 7v7 ranked game. I was watching that guy, my jaw dropped, he did everything right, zero mistakes. It's a beautiful thing to watch and you improve so fast doing this

[COPlUM]

14 minutes ago, Wolf_Harms said:

See you - and thx for your patience!

My pleasure, someone had patience with me 9 months ago and I listened

[COPlUM]

28 minutes ago, Wolf_Harms said:

Thx for your tips, Nikolai.

One more tip, when you say "I do things to help the team win" - I said no. That might seem confusing to you because in your mind, you are doing things to win, and technically you are, you're obviously not trying to lose. But you're not doing everything to win. When we say "do everything to win" - We literally mean that.

I'll give you an extreme example : A few days ago I was playing Hindenburg, my team was absolute trash, it was a category C game, but I was determined to win it. I noticed half the enemy fleet pushing through a cap that had an island in the middle. So I rammed my hindenburg into our side of that island and just sat there, it cost me 80% of my HP to get there alive, I sat there for 10 minutes. I did virtually no damage, some long range spam across the map. I didn't even get any capping xp, so why did I do this? Why the fvck would a good player make a concious decision to have a 750 xp game by smacking a long range HE spammer into a rock?

 

Because I know the vast majority of people in random battles just want to do damage, they don't do everything it takes to win. I knew that if I smashed my ship into that rock, six ships on the other side would be afraid to move, a Hindenburg does half a milllion AP damage per minute, has unique armor that only works at close range and it can pump out sixteen torpedoes, it's the ultimate close range trading ship, it can trade with anything at close range. If one of them had what it takes to win, he could have pushed me, we would have traded, the 5 other guys could have steamrolled that flank. But six guys on the other side of that rock did not want to die without doing damage, so they let me basically "imprison" them behind a rock, because almost everyone -including you- is selfish, they did not want to be the one to die to make a win possible, almost nobody is.

 

So they just sat there, six guys, ten minutes, doing nothing, I gave my team a 10 minute long 11v6, we ran out the clock and we won. I came in last on my team but I did not care, we won, I know we won because of me. I also did not care I came in last on my team and was not rewarded because I know that a "category D" game would come soon enough, where I can pad my damage numbers back up again.

When we say you do everything to win, we mean that, it includes suicide-rushes, any and all forms of self sacrifice as described above. Even games that bore you to death because all you did was spot, if that's what it takes, you fcking do it and you do it right. If you want to "see" this - It's not difficult, install monitor and after you die you watch every 60% player you see, until the end of the game. Look at the fcked up stuff he does to win.

If you develop a win-at-all-cost mindset, I promise your winrate will go up.

[ForlornSailor]

1 hour ago, Wolf_Harms said:

It should be OBVIOUS, that I can NOT win a round with 7 vs 7 players. I am not SUPERMAN.

 

Yes other people are able to get a 65% WR out of 7x7 ranked. Some even manage close to 80% playing alone in 12x12 randoms. Now how do they do that? im sure you can explain?

 

1 hour ago, Wolf_Harms said:

Do you really want to force all players to learn everything about CHESS? Very many people don't give a damn about chess.

 

You either learn or you accept that you are inferior. Id play Carlsen in Chess (if he would waste his time on a newb like me) and after kicking my [edited], I would thank him for the honor of playing against him - and not knocking over the chessboard, rambling about how he only wins because he had the white side. I would look like a serious fool behaving like that, wouldnt you agree?

 

1 hour ago, Wolf_Harms said:

What I see is: the TEAMS I am in loose 7 from 10 fights.
And you are SERIOUSLY trying to tell me, that this is only so, because I AM PLAYING BAD?
Me, personally, I am loosing all those battles for my whole team?

 

The answer to that was given above, its more or less this:

 

1 hour ago, DFens_666 said:

3/10 games you lose no matter what

3/10 gams you win no matter what

4/10 games YOU decide if you win or lose.

You influence every game. positive or negative. And you have many ways to influence the game. I just played a few games, let me show you the minimap:

 

 

I was a Battleship. Alone against 2 DDs,they went into the base a moment later. What I did, was using the chat to talk to our CV. I asked him to help me with the DDs, all I need was spotting. He replied he will come. So i loaded HE, turned my BB towards the cap, when I saw his planes incoming. I kept pinging the map, where the DDs are. This is how it ended - we won. Even communicating with your team can make all the difference.

 

[DFens_666]

1 hour ago, Wolf_Harms said:

Me, personally, I am loosing all those battles for my whole team?

 

One very important thing is prioritizing the right targets aswell:

Here is one more DD ive hit, but didnt fit on the screen

 

Those are the ones you want to kill first. Because DDs win games. BBs give damage but they are rather unimportant targets, especially early on in the game. Hitting a BB for 5k or 10k wont hurt him - he will just heal half of that back and it wont effect him at all. If you can land a good hit - sure, you can try that if there is no other target available, but its better to hit a DD for a few k or get a cit on a Cruiser than shattering/bouncing on a BB.

[COPlUM]

47 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

Even communicating with your team can make all the difference.

Very important, half of my winning streak to gold today was communication, I was telling people what to do, they didn't listen, so I murder something and they go "Wait, maybe this guy knows what he's talking about" then they listen and we win. That's another very powerful use for matchmaking monitor, it lets you know who you should listen to and who you should not listen to.

When we tell you "Disengage, go dark, stop shooting, get in the smoke, run, hide, cap B etc" We are not doing this because we care about you, we don't, we just want to win. Sharing information is another one, if you have RPF, ping the map, let other people know where the enemy DD is, it saves your carrier precious time if he wants to go for it, it allows your battleships to angle against potential incoming torps, etc. All these individual little things improve the chances of your team winning by say 1% each, that's your winrate going up by 1%.

My big thing is not being selfish, battleships and cruisers love me when I play destroyers, they want to kiss and hug me, but I don't want a kiss or a hug, I want you to shoot the things I'm spotting, you don't even need to get in a good position, I'll anticipate when you're going to be in a good position and position myself accordingly to spot for you. Lets say I'm in a kitakaze, dps-beast, I should totally use IFHE and smoke up and farm people yes? Wrong. I run RPF and use my DPS to rush down the enemy destroyer, killing it increases my winrate before the 3rd minute of the match is over. Then I will search for the nearest competent cruisers who set up behind an island, or smoke them up if they are not behind an island, and I will LARP as a shimakaze to let them kill things. I will farm when I have nothing better to do or when I can secure a kill, if you were to play kitakaze, all you would do is farm, because it's good at it, you would not recognize when it's time to do other things.

Why is Nikolay doing this? HE CRAZY! HE COULD BE DOING DAMAGU! MOAR DAMAGUU! Wrong! I would be pumping out 200K DPS and some poor Des Moines on my team would be sitting somewhere taking damage to provide me with vision. If I smoke that guy up, spot and let him farm, we, as a team, would be pumping out 50% more damage and nobody on my team would be taking any damage to apply this damage.

But to do these things you need matchmaking monitor to know, is that Des Moines competent? If he is not competent, you should not make this play, because the other person is incapable of seeing your intent and taking the opportunity.

You ever wonder why some battleships get help against a DD and some do not? If you're a good BB and/or saving you against an enemy DD increases my winrate, I will save you. If you're a bad BB or saving you decreases my winrate, sorry bud, you're going to eat torpedoes for awhile. Is this cruel? Nope. Because me abandoning you was probably the right choice at the time and your winrate will go up because I did not save you.

That's another thing, once your numbers start improving, people using MMM -there's a lot of us- will behave differently around you, because we can see you are competent. If I'm in a Baltimore and there is a competent Lightning in front of me, I will gladly take a beating to keep that guy alive, not because I care about him, I do not, I need him to win. If you're a 43% 10K average damage lightning though? Sorry buddy, I'm already kiting away or switching flanks, I know you're just going to explode, you're not taking me with you, and don't be mad, be grateful, me letting you die improves your winrate too.

There's just so many things you'll understand if you try to understand them, we miss torpedoes on purpose, why, why would anyone miss torpedoes on purpose, that's stupid. Is it? Is it stupid if you're forcing a smolensk out of his smoke with a friendly Montana around the corner? Is it stupid if your team wins in 45 seconds unless the enemy gets into the cap and your torps make them slow down?

Right now, all you're doing is trying to do more damage than you receive, you know it's true, there's far more to winning than that and until you admit this and learn more, you have no right being unicum, good or even average.

Now I'm out, we've given you far too much for some bizarre reason. You got everything you need to not be a potato 6-12 months from now, if you want. It won't be easy at first, your stats are too messed up, people using MMM won't trust you, we won't make plays with you unless we don't have any choice, we won't risk 5K cruiser HP to save your entire DD. But if you normalize your stats, become at least average, people using MMM will start to trust you, we'll make plays with you and your stats are going to pick up faster.

[COPlUM]

27 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

One very important thing is prioritizing the right targets aswell:

 

 

Spoiler

Get help, you need help

 

[COPlUM]

@Wolf_Harms, I only played one random battle game this evening after ranking out because I spent way too much time trying to help you figure out the truth about winrates, saved my replay, my final gift to you, to get you going with watching replays (very good habit!) - the enemy team had 4% higher average winrate than my team by the way, pretty massive difference, also I was bottom tier (in a very good ship, I admit) I didn't bang my desk and say RIGGED - The game was winnable so I tried.

Here you go

https://we.tl/t-vF65I5UW1s

 

Everything I did had a purpose, watch the replay, I'll talk you through it :

 

I spawned, looked at the team line-ups (you even do that?) there was no radar or carrier, only one enemy DD could outspot me by about 0,5km, he's 2 tiers higher than me but kagero doesn't have the best dpm, so getting middle cap was a fairly safe bet, very few DDs have the guts to take middle cap anyway, having it for my team lets points tick in our favour. To my surprise, there was an enemy DD there, I use RPF so my guns were pointed in the right direction, contrary to popular belief, this amounts to more DPS than taking a DPS skill because you don't waste time turning your guns around.

 

I wait until he spots me before I smoke up, why? Well, mostly I want him to panic because I'm a jerk, but more importantly, I'm giving him a bunch of terrible options. He can either rush my smoke, in which case great, he's dead because I have hydro, he can run, great, I get to shoot him a bit and the cap is mine or he can smoke up, even better, that means I can shoot him while he is barely moving, without ever getting myself spotted - and I get to "borrow" his wonderful American smoke after he's dead, just incase. I knew the moment he smoked up there was a very big chance he would just be in his smoke, Americans tend to do this, they feel like they wasted their 200 second smoke if they just use it to run, so I pushed him and dumpstered him.

See that Fiji 11,9km from me? Why did it not spot me? Because I studied game mechanics, the range of my guns is 11,7km, only things 11,7km from me spot me if I shoot these. I can beat that farragut up without anyone on the enemy team ever spotting me, that's why you see me looking at the Fiji more than I'm looking at the Farragut I'm fighting. Alright, cap secured, enemy DD dead, I lost basically 0HP in that trade, good trade, I now look at the map to know how my team is doing, to know where I am needed to increase my odds of winning. I am not looking at where I can go to start doing damage again sooner, that would be south.

South side my team is strong, my team outnumbers the enemy. North side, not so great, half a dozen enemy ships steamrolling through the cap, my battleships are running and getting farmed to death, BBs don't typically behave like that unless they're overwhelmed or there's a DD chasing them, I have to "figure this out" because like you, probably, nobody in that bunch of ships bothered to COMMUNICATE.

So I go north, why? Why do I go north? Because destroyers can stop a push, simply the threat of "being there" is enough to stop a push. I'm giving the enemy push two options by sailing alongside them : Continue to push and eat torpedoes, or stop pushing, ideally I wanted them to stop pushing, isolate them from the rest of their team, give my guys who were kiting time. They were not stopping, so I got myself spotted, to make it painfully obvious to them that I am there and I'm not messing around. Nikolay getting yourself spotted in a DD are you insane? I am not insane. It's perfectly safe, I'm 0,2km away from being able to disengage and I am making it very clear to them that if they keep pushing, they will eat torpedoes and I want them to ping their Kagero for help, I want their Kagero to look for me.

But why Nikolay WHY, you're doing all this strange things, stop! You're letting yourself get spotted because you want the enemy Kagero to come looking for you? Yes. How else am I going to find it fast? Quickest way is make him come to you, guns pointed in the right direction. Also my teammates that just spent 5 minutes running away from Kagero torps are really really upset with that enemy Kagero, even the potato BB players -who usually never shoot destroyers even though they really should- are going to shoot that Kagero the moment it's spotted. So I'll have fire support, plenty of it. I stop, why do I stop, WTF NIKOLAY DONT STOP. Ah, I stop because if I was sailing forward, Kagero and I would be going roughtly the same speed, it would be able to keep me spotted without me spotting him, because it would be chasing me and our concealment ranges would not overlap. If I stop and Kagero is going full speed, it's going to outspot me for a second and then we'll spot eachother, I make him bump into me. So Kagero is a good boy and does what I want, pushes into me, gets annihilated (by torps, that wasn't even necessary, he was basically already dead, but I'll take it)

Farragut dead, cap secure, push stopped, Kagero dead, my kiting force up north is safe, the rest of my team down south is cleaning up, I knew that side would probably be OK without me, our south side was the strong side. I have done everything required to make sure my team wins and only now do I even consider farming damage so I shamelessly yolo into some remaining top tier enemy battleships to finish the match.

You see chat at the end of the game? My battleships are saying how wonderful this game is with a competent DD on the team, got +2 karma too, how generous

Now tell me, in all honesty, how many "Jesus christ that's brilliant I never thought of THAT" moments did you experience watching me? And I'm barely 60% player, there's some 70%-80% players up here too. Dfens and Forlorn would watch my replay and point out my mistakes, I'm sure I made some, Imagine what they'll do to you. Still believe you are powerless? Still think learning game mechanics is a waste of time and the matchmaker is like some mystical being that decides the outcome? Still believe you're already doing everything to win? I played one game this evening and probably did ten things you never thought of.

9 months ago my stats were worse than yours, lookt it up, it's no secret, I'm proud I was a potato 9 months ago. Today I played one game, bottom tier, and I probably beat your XP and DMG record over your last 4500 games. Surely learning game mechanics is worth it, yes?

This topic is 204 pages of cope, sad and pathetic cope, people finding excuses for why they suck, instead of doing what needs to be done to improve, we browse this topic to find screenshots to laugh at on discord. Matchmaker does not decide who wins - you do.

[Besserwisser3000]

Vor 10 Stunden, 159Hunter sagte:

If this were your company you as a boss would have failed. And you can probably get away with firing an entire team once, do it a second time and you'll have issues filling a third team.

By that I meant the company I work at. And yes, if the boss waits for too long, it`s his fault.

At least the head dev should have been scrutinized way sooner.

But then again, the the management at WG probably is in cahoots with the devs, so they failed as well.

 

Vor 10 Stunden, 159Hunter sagte:

It's not an excuse, it's how MM works. WG is not in the business of making perfect line ups, they want games to start quickly.

We are all aware of that. But doesn`t that just show my point? What they think is good actually fucked it up on the long run.

They don`t see how I just log off if I feel that my T7 premium (20-30 EUR) will be bottom tier in the next match anyway. And by that I don`t mean p2w MM should be introduced. Paying and then getting f**** over like that just alienates people even more. To this day they have failed to come up with a solution to this problem.  Instead, they made it worse by introducing T10 premiums and T10 premium camos. Who would have thought that this will lead to the MM will being skewed towards T10?

 

I have an excel sheet with almost 1k games. And the rate of being bottom tier is about 60% for T7 and 8. Why should I take WGs words over my own observations and records?

ColonelPete may think that is fine, but many paying players will just leave, because they feel cheated.

 

This ist just one example, though. Some of the questionable changes over the past 2-3 years were:

- CV rework

- OP premiums like Thunderer, Smolensk, etc

- Skill rework

- introduction of a gacha style container system to milk people with a gambling addiction

- T10 premiums and premium camos

 

And the list goes on, these are just  the worst.

 

Why I still play the game? Because it`s a good game at its core. And I haven`t let go just yet.

But as someone who has been playing it on and off for the past 5 years, I can clearly see the deterioration over the past 2-3 years.

And the amount of bots you meet at T4-5 matches ist testament to this.

[ColonelPete]

27 minutes ago, Besserwisser3000 said:

This ist just one example, though. Some of the questionable changes over the past 2-3 years were:

1. - CV rework
2. - OP premiums like Thunderer, Smolensk, etc
3. - Skill rework
4. - introduction of a gacha style container system to milk people with a gambling addiction
5. - T10 premiums and premium camos

1. which was bad, but has nothing to do with MM
2. which are not OP and influence MM in the long run
3. which was bad, but has nothing to do with MM
4. which is bad, but does not have anything to with the gameplay at all
5. which influences MM in the long run, but we have the camos since the beginning...

Btw. the amount of Bots in Tier IV is partly the result of increased player protection. When you divide the playerbase into groups, you lack the numbers for complete teams.

[semiGM]

Vor 3 Stunden, NikolayKuznetsov sagte:

I'm barely 60% player, 

Vor 6 Stunden, NikolayKuznetsov sagte:

me letting you die improves your winrate too.

 

 

Vor 6 Stunden, NikolayKuznetsov sagte:

Because me abandoning you was probably the right choice at the time and your winrate will go up because I did not save you.

Classic armchair admiral that one thinks has „barely 60% Winrate“ but in reality... Letting  teammates die won’t increase anyones Winrate on your team.  „Me letting you die improves your winrate too“ just wow. You can’t save anybody in WoWs from sinking, you cannot create shields or heal them, the enemy can kill them literally directly next to you if you not spend your time donating smokes. Hearing your words one gets the impression that you in fact can safe them, but  you decide against it for statshaming reasons, they are to bad or not worth your time... 

 

 

[GarrusBrutus]

7 minutes ago, semiGM said:

Letting  teammates die won’t increase anyones Winrate on your team.

"Letting teammates die", indeed sounds bad. "Not trying to save obvious potatoes from certain death", sounds a whole lot better and is in fact very beneficial to your own survival and in return will increase your winrate.

You will never see super unicum players try to smoke up a random friendly in randoms who is running into his immenent death, simply because they're unreliable. 

12 minutes ago, semiGM said:

Hearing your words one gets the impression that you in fact can safe them, but they are to bad or not worth your time... 

That is exactly the reason. Most players are too unksilled to be worthy of saving. Why should i risk my own ship to try to save xXx_BismarckSniper1940_xXx who makes a stupid push while he should have kited?

[semiGM]

Vor 32 Minuten, GarrusBrutus sagte:

Most players are too unksilled to be worthy of saving

How can you save allies? By quickly killing enemy ships. And with that you rather have to help unskilled players, if GarrusBrutus has to 1 vs 1 an enemy, I am sure he will win, if Tirpitz_Defender with 40% has to 1 vs 1 an enemy, he rather needs support. Same with flanks, the winning flank with skilled players usually  doesn’t need further support by a BB changing sides („my flank has 45% Winrate, lets leave“) while on the weak flank the red yolo low tier Tirpitz gets to torp 2 of your teammates. A good player can make a much bigger difference there. I will try to always focus the most threatening enemy ship, I don’t care if the guys in my team he threatens have good or bad stats. And in most cases the Green team has deep red stats. Everybody can work with good players, what one has to master is to work around bad players. Excelling at working with good players might be even better, but that’s of very questionable use in randoms.

[GarrusBrutus]

6 minutes ago, semiGM said:

How can you save allies? By quickly killing enemy ships. And with that you rather have to help unskilled players, if GarrusBrutus has to 1 vs 1 an enemy, I am sure he will win, if Tirpitz_Defender with 40% has to 1 vs 1 an enemy, he rather needs support. Same with flanks, the winning flank with skilled players usually  doesn’t need further support by a BB changing sides („my flank has 45% Winrate, lets leave“) while on the weak flank the red yolo low tier Tirpitz gets to torp 2 of your teammates. A good player can make a much bigger difference there.

100% agreed. Helping your teammates win fights is always a good thing. But i was under the impression that "saving teammates" meant serving as a smoke slave or meat shield.  So in that regard i agree with @NikolayKuznetsov.

[arttuperkunas]

6 hours ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

walls of text

This was not intended for me, but thanks for the narration! I actually learned something today while procrastinating from actual work duties.

 

Despite the exchange in the Harugumo thread, I am in fact trying to learn to play DDs, so I found these posts very useful.

[DFens_666]

9 hours ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

 

 

  Hide contents

Get help, you need help

 

 

*clubbing intensifies*

Spoiler

 

Thats less filthy than Forlorns GC if i may say so.

 

At that whole saving potato stuff above:

If you try to save a potato, you may succeed in that. And the result is, he will just stumble into the next situation which gets him killed. I stopped that long ago. You cant even get in there and make it a 2vs1, because they will screw you over and run off when the enemy sees you and then you are alone. And is your health thats going down, not his.

So potatoes are essentially doing what they should NOT do: use others as meatshields.

Thats the problem when people like Flamu say "using their teammates as meatshields" which makes ofc sense, because you dont want to lose the best player on your team. However, DK being very strong with our playerbase, they all think they are the best players themselves.

 

7 hours ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

I knew that side would probably be OK without me, our south side was the strong side.

 

I havent watched the video, but one remark for this:

If the stronger side screws up on its own, then helping them would most likely not matter either. If they are more, and they still fail, then it means they were useless to begin with, and most likely a default loss from the get go.

[arttuperkunas]

The issue is that while a good player constantly:

 

(1.) Tries to understand the state of play (and has enough experience to actually understand it)

(2.) Constantly thinks about how to influence the state of play so that their team wins

 

An "average" (for WOWS) or poor player does not even begin to understand (1.) and might not even be trying. Even if they think they're making game-changing plays, if they don't understand the first thing about what's going on in the match, their ship's strengths and weaknesses, or other ships' strengths and weaknesses, they couldn't have a positive impact on the match except by being in the right place at the right time by pure accident. And odds are that that's not going to happen. Furthermore, a lot of people especially at lower or mid tiers just want to shoot guns for big damage numbers and sail around, which means they will never even start to reach (1) or (2) above.

 

Now personally I still have a long way to go, but I am getting more wins now that I spend more time trying to understand what's happening in the match and what I should be doing next before doing it.

 

 

[Wolf_Harms]

8 hours ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

@Wolf_Harms, I only played one random battle game this evening after ranking out because I spent way too much time trying to help you figure out the truth about winrates, saved my replay, my final gift to you, to get you going with watching replays (very good habit!)

 

Damn, now I feel guilty! Thank you for all your effort and explanatory details, Nikolai!
I see you LOVE the game, and so do I - your time will not be wasted (but also not get payed - Mmuahahahahaaa!!!).

 

Yes, I sometimes recorded a match, but with my GEFORCE video part - how did you record your REVIEW? It was even interactive still - I could change the MAP size for example, or check the TEAM.
I didn't even know such a REVIEW could be done in WoWS? Never saw it!

 

Thanks to also DFENS and all others for the input.
Some of you may know me from ingame - I must be one of the most ranting guys in WoWS; I insulted many bad teams and players and got banned from CHAT several times
for using "inappropriate language". But heck, it is a war going on, and I find it so hard to watch, how some people do EVERYthing to collect even the last torpedo.
 

But I do not only curse. I often try to give some hints or advice for noobs - with the result that I get cursed. "STFU! Who are YOU?? Do you think you're the Admiral? You are only 47% player, so shut up!"
And I was only trying to still be helpful for my TEAM, after getting sunk. With the hands and concentration free, I thought I could assist the TEAM via MAP. But I guess I should drop that. Not wanted.

 

I am not the negative person many in WoWS may think, but yes, I am a kind of Captain Haddock (if anyone knows that comic figure by HERGÉ).

 

It will take me a while to check through all tips and hints here, and I will surely watch that REPLAY again several times. 
To change my ways of seeing things, may take a while - but I'll try it.

 

Thanks all - see you in battle!