Matchmaker Discussion Thread & MM Balance

[Sea_w0lf]

After that i will say that players mentality need improvement not the MM..

[ImTryingButYouDontHelp]

9 hours ago, ForlornSailor said:

Do you complain when they are on your side, carrying you to victory?

Yes, because roflstompings are frustrating, no matter the side you are.

And, as you ask, I'll explain you how some people get high WRs; making divisions. For example, some players have less than 10% of their battles alone, with winrates (for example) of 51%, which is quite bad. The rest, until 5K, are in division. Does it sounds you?

[ForlornSailor]

5 minutes ago, WG_Citadel_My_Ass said:

And, as you ask, I'll explain you how some people get high WRs; making divisions. For example, some players have less than 10% of their battles alone, with winrates (for example) of 51%, which is quite bad. The rest, until 5K, are in division. Does it sounds you?

 

Nope because you dont understand the concept of time. You forgot to answer some questions tho. Actually, most of them.

[zekai7498]

17.10.2020 saat 19:00'de, ForlornSailor dedi:

Nice little story for all the people whining about +/-2 mm and claiming, its this that makes them lose games because they are low tier:

 

Today, in a T7 to T9 game, the Zara right next to me starts instantly bitsin about the matchmaking. He goes into reverse and afk into the map border. Thats how the match played out:

- The enemy T7 cruiser (myoko) ruins my game, by slamming 10k into my DD during a radar

- Enemy DDs decide the game, because I dont get the fire support the enemy DD gets from his T7 teammate - guess what would have been the perfect tool against enemy DDs? Thats right, italian SAP from the Zara.

So in this tiny brains of that guy, he lost the game because he was thrown under the bus as low tier. Yet he completly doesnt get the fact, that his decision to go afk, had a huuuge impact on losing the game. Dont be the tiny brain guy.

We dont wanna play with them too,so wr based MM is the only way.

[SV_Kompresor]

Roflstomps aren't really caused by matchmaking (most of the time), but by the fact that WG caters to casual players which then allows those players to advance up the tiers far too quickly and basically ruin any game they enter. How is mm supposed to know that a 45% shima is going to suicide and cause a snowballing effect vs a 42% gearing that won't?

[Takethatyoubeast]

50 minutes ago, domen3 said:

Roflstomps aren't really caused by matchmaking (most of the time), but by the fact that WG caters to casual players which then allows those players to advance up the tiers far too quickly and basically ruin any game they enter. How is mm supposed to know that a 45% shima is going to suicide and cause a snowballing effect vs a 42% gearing that won't?

Only played 5 games today. Some high tier, some low tier. 
 

Lost all 5 with all the games being over within 10 minutes and lost within the first 5 with DD’s dead and other ships overextended

 

But...that cuts both ways and we can’t blame the MM for players who simply have no idea how to play 

 

I had a player in a Tier VII battle with 79 games - I was still on tier 2 / 3 at that stage

[Aethervoxx]

WG does not care about the MM at all. All they care about is how much money they are getting through their promotions. 

The ship 'SS Decent MM', 'SS Balanced Ships', 'SS Fair RNG', 'SS Good WoWS', call it what you will, that ship sailed long ago &, btw, it was lost at sea (who knows where?).

[surfer_gr]

so you are saying that my stats suck cause out of my 29k plus random battles the 26k are solo ? intersting !!!!! LOL

[ColonelPete]

4 hours ago, surfer_gr said:

so you are saying that my stats suck cause out of my 29k plus random battles the 26k are solo ? intersting !!!!! LOL

Maybe you should ask that the person who was saying that?

[Alseas]

Tier 7 Fiji in a division with a Tier 8 CV. 

Third match in a row of being dragged into Tier X matches and this one didnt even have a comparable Tier 7 on the enemy team. I understand this 'can' happen, but it just shouldn't. MM has to be smarter than this. What a boring and frustrating set of matches.

 

Thi

[ColonelPete]

2 minutes ago, Alseas said:

Tier 7 Fiji in a division with a Tier 8 CV. 

Third match in a row of being dragged into Tier X matches and this one didnt even have a comparable Tier 7 on the enemy team. I understand this 'can' happen, but it just shouldn't. MM has to be smarter than this. What a boring and frustrating set of matches.

 

Thi

Then do not play in a Tier VIII division. The MM will not give you easier teams, just because you create uneven divisions on purpose.

[Alseas]

2 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Then do not play in a Tier VIII division. The MM will not give you easier teams, just because you create uneven divisions on purpose.

And which Tier 7 carrier would you like my friend to use? 

 

Not trying to stack the odds, but a Tier 7-9 match would be much fairer than a Tier 10

[gabberworld]

mm seems very balanced today, 11 wins and 1 loss nothing to complain, keep it up WG

[ColonelPete]

3 minutes ago, Alseas said:

And which Tier 7 carrier would you like my friend to use? 

 

Not trying to stack the odds, but a Tier 7-9 match would be much fairer than a Tier 10

Either your friend chooses a different ship or you are.

And giving a Tier VIII CV only +1/-2 MM, would be a bit unfair compared to other CV.

If divisions worked like that, everyone would put a low Tier ship in their division.

[ForlornSailor]

17 minutes ago, Alseas said:

Third match in a row of being dragged into Tier X matches and this one didnt even have a comparable Tier 7 on the enemy team. I understand this 'can' happen, but it just shouldn't. MM has to be smarter than this. What a boring and frustrating set of matches. 

 

No, it absolute should happen! Because else you could secure prefered matchmaking for the high tier ships in your division.

11 minutes ago, Alseas said:

And which Tier 7 carrier would you like my friend to use? 

 

How about you pick a T8 ship...

[DFens_666]

11 minutes ago, Alseas said:

Not trying to stack the odds, but a Tier 7-9 match would be much fairer than a Tier 10

 

So a T8 CV seeing maximum T9 MM is fair how?

If your buddy wants to play T8 CV, pick a T8 ship. If you want to play Fiji, let him play a T7 non-CV. Just alternate between T7 and T8 then, cant be that hard, right?

[binky121]

I seriously thing the MM should be based on player win rate, 5 good players and 5 average players against a team of potatoes and its over in 5 mins, no matter if there are 1 or 2 decent players on that team, the game has allowed far too easy access to tier 10 ships far too soon so 90% of players on the server have 0 clue how to use them and then on top of that there are those people using bot programs to gain credit and experience, the amount of decent games I have seen get trashed because of bot users is beyond real, give it a few years this will be exactly the same, only bots playing it which would be a shame, 1st get rid of the people using bots, 2nd match make via WR to create fair matches 3rd possibly make it so players have to play at least 100 battles before they can move up a tier in ships.

[ColonelPete]

6 hours ago, binky121 said:

I seriously thing the MM should be based on player win rate, 

And it was explained multiple times on this thread, why this does not work.

6 hours ago, binky121 said:

 possibly make it so players have to play at least 100 battles before they can move up a tier in ships.

Making people play 100 Tier I battles before they can advance to Tier II is a REALLY bad idea. WG will not kill their own game.

[Camperdown]

2 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

And it was explained multiple times on this thread, why this does not work.

And it has been explained multiple times on this thread that if you do this with an ELO rating system it will work.

[ColonelPete]

1 minute ago, Camperdown said:

And it has been explained multiple times on this thread that if you do this with an ELO rating system it will work.

But he was not talking about that.

And the challenges for an ELO system were also pointed out.

[Skyee_8492]

9 hours ago, binky121 said:

I seriously thing the MM should be based on player win rate, 5 good players and 5 average players against a team of potatoes and its over in 5 mins, no matter if there are 1 or 2 decent players on that team, the game has allowed far too easy access to tier 10 ships far too soon so 90% of players on the server have 0 clue how to use them and then on top of that there are those people using bot programs to gain credit and experience, the amount of decent games I have seen get trashed because of bot users is beyond real, give it a few years this will be exactly the same, only bots playing it which would be a shame, 1st get rid of the people using bots, 2nd match make via WR to create fair matches 3rd possibly make it so players have to play at least 100 battles before they can move up a tier in ships.

Because its a FTP game, unfortunately you kiss these dreams goodnight  but i 100% agree with you.

Having some kind of skill based MM would be great (I to have mentioned this) but again unfortunately its a FTP and profit is the aim. Those who take the game a little more serious than just the casual weekend warrior obviously get the short end of the stick.

The amount of times i've complained and in the end it just doesn't do you any good. Personally & my advice is just to avoid high tier games,  i avoid Tiers 9 & 10 like the plague because its such a farce its not even remotely enjoyable and to me a sure fire way to completely ruin you WR ratio. I've been playing since 2017 and i only have unlocked 2 tier 10 ship i avoid it that hard and even them are for the purpose of ranked battles. 

 

With access to coal ships to any old tom, [edited] & harry. It doesn't make for a great gaming experience and it shows not to mention the sheer negativity.

The endless complaining in the chat box about what somebody else is doing, not getting supported blah blah blah this, that & the third mainly by mediocre players with mediocre skill levels. 

 

You try your best for yourself & the "team" but because you didn't do whats best for them. 

people complain you ain't a "team player" meanwhile they got steamrolled in the first 3 minutes of battle

You come top, you get reported out of spite

so no matter what you just can't win! 

 

you think well its top tier, elite players but actually i think its worse than tier 4 & 5 because everybody is in such a rush to get there. Learning the game goes completely out the window.

 

Want a better time, leave the top tiers because its a hornets nest of mostly lame players who think because they've reach top tier they're top notch players but have  10000+ battles to their name but a WR of something like 42% but still eating full broadsides from a Yamato 19km way whilst in a kremlin 

If you have to play top tiers, be in a division with people you can rely on to support you and you might find your odds of winning increasing. 

[Excavatus]

1 hour ago, Camperdown said:

And it has been explained multiple times on this thread that if you do this with an ELO rating system it will work.

Nope.. 

in a game with no respawn and high RNG.. 

SBMM will never work in any form.. 

[Camperdown]

5 hours ago, Excavatus said:

Nope.. 

in a game with no respawn and high RNG.. 

SBMM will never work in any form.. 

We shall have to agree to disagree 

[159Hunter]

56 minutes ago, Camperdown said:

We shall have to agree to disagree 

then by all means, try to convince us why it would work.

Countless people have argued why it wouldn't work, but those in favour can't explain why it would work (countering arguments of those that say it won't work).

[Camperdown]

42 minutes ago, 159Hunter said:

then by all means, try to convince us why it would work.

Countless people have argued why it wouldn't work, but those in favour can't explain why it would work (countering arguments of those that say it won't work).

 

No, I will not try to convince you why it would work. I don't like repetetive discussions.

 

But I will try to explain once more why I think it would work and why the arguments it won't are invalid. Do with it what you like.

So here goes nothing.

 

My proposal is:

All players shall fall into 5 classes: 

1. Noobs and glue sniffers

2. Meh

3. Average

4. Gud

5. Expert

 

When introduced, players are distributed on current winrate, each class 20% of players. New players start in 1. Noob. If you win, your rating within your class rises, until you are top of your class, and you promote to the bottom of the next class. Same, if you lose, you rating drops untill you hit the bottom of your class and get demoted to a lower class. Each class keeps 20% of the players. This is a sort of ELO rating system.

 

Matchmaking takes place preferentially with players of comparable rating. So within your class if there are enough players online. If there are fewer players online, you may be matched with adjacent classes as well. So, if you are 3. Average, you may be matched with 2. Meh or 4. Gud as well. So you will be matched with 40% of the player base. If there are not even enough players for that and waiting times become to high, you may be matched with any player, basically the current frustrating mess. But that will only happen at slow hours. The rest of the time, you will be playing against opponents of much more comparable skill level. 

 

Now the arguments against.

- No no no no, if you match on WR, everyone will converge on a 50% WR. No, in this system the old WR is no longer relevant, it is replaced by class and rating within class.

- This no possible, waiting times will skyrocket cause you can only match with part of the player base. No, if there are too few players available, the MM system will dynamically broaden the players you can be matched with, so that queue times stay acceptable. Waiting times will go up a bit because you are matched to a smaller section of the player base, but worst case you have the current yuck and you play against all comers.

- But but but, I have a 30% WR in ship X and 60% in ship Y. So I will be cr@p in ship X. Yes you will be, and your rating will sink when you play, just as your average WR will in the current system.

- But but but, my cherished, polished WR will evaporate. Yes it will, but you will be 5. Expert and may rank top of the tops instead. 

 

Let me know if I missed any relevant objections.

 

The great advantage of this system is that most of the time, you will be matched with teams of more or less comparable skills. The current rofl stomp frustration of noobs playing with unicums causing games that are brutish, nasty and short* will be gone most of the times. Game experience will get a lot more satisfying for all. You want to goof around and have phun^TM? Go ahead, knock yourself out in the 1. Glue sniffer class. You want to play seriously and have serious games? Go ahead and conquer my lad. You are an average guy? Noone is yelling at you any more (at least if you play on busy hours).

 

Now for some reason WG and a lot of players and a certain moderator that shall not be mentioned dont like this. Why, beats me. I would love to be rid of the current mad house MM.  

 

* yes, educated readers, that was a reference to Hobbes