Matchmaker Discussion Thread & MM Balance

[zekai7498]

Half of the teams below 300 battles at T8,what is changed?

[ForlornSailor]

1 hour ago, Birkebein said:

This, I think is a matter of perspective, personally I'd prefer losing a hard fought battle rather than winning vs. potatoes and bots.

 

There are more levels to it. It really depends. Not every loss is frustrating, not every win is awesome. I had losses, where I felt, my team did the best they could and so did the enemys. Those are usualy close games over the full 20 minutes, very tense all the way and decided by small margins. Thats a good game. Winning in 6 minutes without any resitance is usually meh - unless you played a huge role in that yourself - I recall 1 of such games while writing, where I charged 3 DDs with my Kronshtadt and then caught an Ibuki full broadside and smashed him too. Game over in 6 mins due to points. That still was a good game, because it was a lot of action and high controbution from me. Similar games where you end with 25k damage because the enemys vaporize be the hands of your team ofc feel pretty boring. So I do agree with your statement, but whats ruining the games, for winner or loser team, is the abysmal skill or non-willingness to play the game from part of the playerbase. And when 5, 6 or even more of such players are thrown into one team... good night. Had one of those games today again. urgh. a tripple division that sill sits at the map border even while the enemys have 800 points and 3 caps + a DD that says "I go C" - while he spawnd at A. thats enough to ruin a game.

 

1 hour ago, Birkebein said:

Looks like divisions affect the balance in the battles so it might be relevant - just depends what we feel the MM should accomplish... hard fought and exciting battles would be my preference, so maybe matching the number of divisions in each team would be an idea - my bet is there are more 50% plus WR divisions than 20%'ers.

 

Should be possible to look up or calculate, if you throw the data into excel or access:

https://wows-numbers.com/ranking/type,div3/

thats the results of 3x divisions sorted by winrate.

And divisions are (roughly) matched, atleast in most cases. But you cant match their skill and imo the game shouldnt. Good players shouldnt be punished and neither should bad players be pampered. Imagine 3x Yamato division with 25% WR - they would only be matched with a similar useless division - why? They are super bad, super bad for the game and should actually feel constantly, that they do everything wrong. Not beeing artifically put into an easier environment, which makes it easier for them to achieve wins, XP and credits.

 

54 minutes ago, Birkebein said:

Not that many games played in total... anyhow, circa 25% higher WR is significant, if it was 5% then I'd agree (statistical deviation being what it is etc)

 

31 games is still very low and a little bit of luck in a few games can easily skew the winrate by double-digit margin. Feel free to use my stats from 2020 (proships is only russian tho), this is 3x division:

 

 

Thats 78% with a mix of ships, mostly higher tiers (avg 8,1), nothing really try hard, just division with skilled players. If you want to place Ranked of the same time against it, there im around 60...61% this year.

But yea, 3x division will usually yield you a higher Winrate, if everyone knows what they are doing. On the other hand: you will achieve lower damage, lower kills, simply because you compete with better players all the time.

[Birkebein]

11 hours ago, ForlornSailor said:

Should be possible to look up or calculate, if you throw the data into excel or access:

https://wows-numbers.com/ranking/type,div3/

thats the results of 3x divisions sorted by winrate.

Great data, but cumbersome to work with...

 

Sorting by WR gets us players with few battles, so not so good statistically.  Sorting by number of battles got us players who like seal clubbing in tier 1 (thousands of battles in tier 1 ships in division amazing!), and cv mains, and players who've stopped playing a long time ago.  

 

Looking at the rest of the data, seems like anecdotal observations, that playing in a 3 player division helps win battles is correct.  I looked at individual players and see that most WR's are substantially higher in division vs solo.  But, I have to admit, I wasn't up to the task of actually doing any statistical analysis as the data base is hard to work with - you've got to sort for number of battles, identify players with high number of battles both solo and in division (apply the "subjective" exclusions of the previous paragraph) and then that provides the data set... and for it to be analysis you can state that you have "confidence" in, you'd need to identify a large number of players, better yet, the whole defined population of players.  I just about fell off my perch just thinking about it as a challenge  

 

I returned to the first post about  this MM topic to see if there was some guidance as to what the MM ought to accomplish, there wasn't, but it was made clear that we were free to discuss the MM idenfinitely, in fact, that was the expectation - so I think we're doing well!

 

A bit disappointing perhaps that there's no stated goal by WG as to what they envision the MM achieving/providing - maybe that's another topic entirely.  We know it's not to provide balanced battles.

[Birkebein]

On 2/24/2019 at 9:37 AM, Excavatus said:

Hey there ladies and gentelmen,

Same as other similar titles, the matchmaking of this game will never give rest to people.

The discussion about that will never cease to exist.

 

+-2 tier differences,

Radar ship imbalances in MMs,

or anything regarding to the MM.. from now on, goes here.

 

 

So, please keep your Discussions about the subject on this pinned thread for now on.

And as always, keep calm, stay civil and be nice to each other.

 

Have a good day.

Just thought we'd all find this opening post prophetic.

[ForlornSailor]

1 hour ago, Birkebein said:

A bit disappointing perhaps that there's no stated goal by WG as to what they envision the MM achieving/providing - maybe that's another topic entirely.  We know it's not to provide balanced battles.

 

I think WG is pretty happy with the matchmaking. Especially when it comes to individual factors of how teams are composed. In that sense, they stated several times over and over, that random games are random, which includes the matchmaking. Same for +/-2 mm, whoch most likely will never change either.

 

The only change they applied, was the introduction of more T10 only battles and an internal counter, which prevents you beeing low tier in a certain ship above a certain ratio. So at some point you are guarenteed to be top tier. However, it still leaves some open questions for me, like how do divisions impact this and do only random battles count?

 

And about the T10-only battles - im not even sure if Im happy with the way it is now. Yes, T8 used to have it harder, with constantly fighting T10s. But T8 ships actually do way better in a T10 environment then T7s in T9 games. Which is now happening at a much too high frequency. Id love WG to somehow look into this, and if its by creating more T9 only battles or such. #MakeT7GreatAgain

[Takethatyoubeast]

Biggest challenge today was being in a team that didn’t lose 2 - 4 ships before the enemy even lost 1 

 

With a WR of 26% today it was a challenge to far

 

Standard battle mode where a BB who YOLO’d was in chat saying “Why are you (me) still in our base”. Answer because their were 4 enemy ships trying to cap it. We lost anyway but it’s a worrying lack of map awareness 😢

[Takethatyoubeast]

20 hours ago, zekai7498 said:

Half of the teams below 300 battles at T8,what is changed?

I had a T8 with 198 games today. Not surprisingly they died first 

[_LiAnO_]

That they stop putting bots in the random battles gang of scoundrels that is what cooperative battles are for but as every day fewer people enter they do not stop putting bots that are the smart ostia

 

[zekai7498]

Who said ''MM working fine''? Look at the picture carefully,and tell me where is the MM?

[ColonelPete]

2 minutes ago, zekai7498 said:

Who said ''MM working fine''? Look at the picture carefully,and tell me where is the MM?

Without MM you would still wait for a battle...

[gabberworld]

27 minutes ago, zekai7498 said:

Who said ''MM working fine''? Look at the picture carefully,and tell me where is the MM?

mm is in opposite team , like always. dependents how to look

[Birkebein]

12 minutes ago, gabberworld said:

mm is in opposite team , like always. dependents how to look

Guessing the other team didnt enjoy the battle much either.

[zekai7498]

32 dakika önce, ColonelPete dedi:

Without MM you would still wait for a battle...

As you can see,whole team was ''peacekeeper'',what kind of mm is this? Where is the ''balance'' between teams?

[ColonelPete]

3 minutes ago, zekai7498 said:

... Where is the ''balance'' between teams?

Tier and Class

[gabberworld]

15 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Tier and Class

no. even that is unbalanced . but that is very rare to see in pubic server

[ColonelPete]

1 minute ago, gabberworld said:

no. even that is unbalanced . but that is very rare to see in pubic server

When it is very rarely unbalanced, it does not really matter.

[gabberworld]

6 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

When it is very rarely unbalanced, it does not really matter.

 

fact is its unbalanced if rare or not

[ColonelPete]

1 minute ago, gabberworld said:

fact is its unbalanced if rare or not

No, that is not how it works.

[Aethervoxx]

16 hours ago, zekai7498 said:

Who said ''MM working fine''?

WG contends it is ("working as intended") in opposition to all the evidence to the contrary.

 

15 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

it is very rarely unbalanced,

ROFL

[ColonelPete]

3 minutes ago, Aethervoxx said:

WG contends it is ("working as intended") in opposition to all the evidence to the contrary.

Probably because you still do not understand what they intended.

[Aethervoxx]

7 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Probably because you still do not understand what they intended.

Typical 'I know better than you' response when your opinion is no better than anyone else's.

[ColonelPete]

13 minutes ago, Aethervoxx said:

Typical 'I know better than you' response when your opinion is no better than anyone else's.

Has nothing to do with opinion, just facts.

[Aethervoxx]

1 minute ago, ColonelPete said:

Has nothing to do with opinion, just facts.

26,446 posts & counting ...... have you won yet?

[ColonelPete]

2 minutes ago, Aethervoxx said:

26,446 posts & counting ...... have you won yet?

Couple hundred downvotes .... have you won yet?

[Fatal_Ramses]

21 hours ago, zekai7498 said:

Who said ''MM working fine''? Look at the picture carefully,and tell me where is the MM?

30k damage, did all of our sides spotting in 2 bros. Literally all the "friendly" BBs came to our side abandoning C. If im rocking at 30k at the top of the list WTF are the rest of these potatoes doing?