Matchmaker Discussion Thread & MM Balance

[zekai7498]

25.09.2020 saat 17:57'de, ColonelPete dedi:

No. The Tier you play is decided by you.

The players you play with is decided by your battle number.

But if you knew about the MM rules, you would know that restrictions apply to that.

 

When you play with an experienced player in division or play Tier V or higher, you always play with the general playerbase.

Well,what about players who has total battle experience is below 300 playing high tiers?Today,a massa complained about he spamming ships because he died in first 5min while rushing:) A kaga cancered whole team.They were all below 300 battles,at least keep them off from real players,this may solve most of the problems.I think this is the biggest problem.

Think about a cv match with wallet warrior Kaga vs unicum Shokaku,what a disaster...

[ColonelPete]

2 minutes ago, zekai7498 said:

Well,what about players who has total battle experience is below 300 playing high tiers?

Play with the general playerbase. It is their choice. When they want to play with the big boys, they should not complain about bruises.

[zekai7498]

15 dakika önce, ColonelPete dedi:

Play with the general playerbase. It is their choice. When they want to play with the big boys, they should not complain about bruises.

But they are causing loss to their teammates,screwing up game fun,no one wants to lose becouse of derpitz players.(you know what i mean)

[ColonelPete]

24 minutes ago, zekai7498 said:

But they are causing loss to their teammates,screwing up game fun,no one wants to lose becouse of derpitz players.(you know what i mean)

We have that for over 5 years. The first three years it was not really a problem. Buying into high Tier is not the cause of this.

[zekai7498]

2 saat önce, ColonelPete dedi:

We have that for over 5 years. The first three years it was not really a problem. Buying into high Tier is not the cause of this.

Of course it is,players with no high tier experience jumping to T8-T9 and they screwing up,it become a problem because there are so many of them now.

In high tiers,its hard to compensate other one's ineffectiveness,like cv or dd etc...This makes it a real problem.

[ColonelPete]

2 minutes ago, zekai7498 said:

Of course it is,players with no high tier experience jumping to T8-T9 and they screwing up,it become a problem because there are so many of them now.

In high tiers,its hard to compensate other one's ineffectiveness,like cv or dd etc...This makes it a real problem.

Then why did we not have the problem 5 years ago? Tier VIII premiums were available from the start.

[SkollUlfr]

6 minutes ago, zekai7498 said:

Of course it is,players with no high tier experience jumping to T8-T9 and they screwing up,it become a problem because there are so many of them now.

In high tiers,its hard to compensate other one's ineffectiveness,like cv or dd etc...This makes it a real problem.

if you gave your ego a rest, you would realise that the distribution of effective and ineffective players SHOULD be balanced on both teams, meaning the entire idea of one player having to compensate for weaker players, against the opposition team, would not be there.

 

as it is the MM spits out one sided washouts drastically more often than fun competitive battles.

though this isnt helped by obviously broken balance and mechanics.

[zekai7498]

2 saat önce, ColonelPete dedi:

Then why did we not have the problem 5 years ago? Tier VIII premiums were available from the start.

We did,but not often like now.Thats why oldschool premium tirpitz nicknamed ''derpitz''.Old players are veterans now,they know how to win or lose,they recognize derpitzs.They are aware of derpitzs being seen more often.

Now we have more premiumsXmore players=More potential derpitz,thats why it became noticeable.

 

 

 

 

[ColonelPete]

4 hours ago, zekai7498 said:

We did,but not often like now.Thats why oldschool premium tirpitz nicknamed ''derpitz''.Old players are veterans now,they know how to win or lose,they recognize derpitzs.They are aware of derpitzs being seen more often.

Now we have more premiumsXmore players=More potential derpitz,thats why it became noticeable

So it is a change in the playerbase.

Funny thing is that the problem are rarely premiumships. Maybe tell the two Montanas that threw a match yesterday that they are supposed to be premiums?

[159Hunter]

32 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

So it is a change in the playerbase.

Funny thing is that the problem are rarely premiumships. Maybe tell the two Montanas that threw a match yesterday that they are supposed to be premiums?

The problem with the Montanas was: they weren't Ohios 

[Aethervoxx]

MM balance? No such thing. Never was.

Does WF care? Not a chance.

'MV Balance' sailed years ago & was lost at Sea who knows where.

[ColonelPete]

5 minutes ago, Aethervoxx said:

MM balance? No such thing. Never was.

Does WF care? Not a chance.

'MV Balance' sailed years ago & was lost at Sea who knows where.

The MM worked never better.

[Echo_519]

Skillbased matchmaking when WG? please finally give me skillbased matchmaking. I don't want to lose 4 battles in less then  minutes because all battle my teammates go full lemmingtrain. Can't carry 11 noobs lemming to one side and me aving to solo-carry the other flank.... It does not matter being the best player of the team nonstop, becasueit's not the good players that win battles, it's the complete trash bad players then lose battle for good players. so Finnaly give us skillbased matchmaking so i do not lose 4 battles in 7 minutes anymore due to complete trash noobs only being out in my teams nonstop

 

[zekai7498]

13 saat önce, ColonelPete dedi:

So it is a change in the playerbase.

Funny thing is that the problem are rarely premiumships. Maybe tell the two Montanas that threw a match yesterday that they are supposed to be premiums?

I understand a skill based MM is a long shot,putting brain to potatos also impossible but what i mensioned is an obvious problem that requires a management.

For WG,making money of course one of the top priority but  its begun poisonous for the game.

 

[159Hunter]

3 hours ago, Echo_519 said:

Skillbased matchmaking when WG? please finally give me skillbased matchmaking. I don't want to lose 4 battles in less then  minutes because all battle my teammates go full lemmingtrain. Can't carry 11 noobs lemming to one side and me aving to solo-carry the other flank.... It does not matter being the best player of the team nonstop, becasueit's not the good players that win battles, it's the complete trash bad players then lose battle for good players. so Finnaly give us skillbased matchmaking so i do not lose 4 battles in 7 minutes anymore due to complete trash noobs only being out in my teams nonstop

 

You know what the overall result of skillbased mm would be for you?

Winning less games than you do now.

 

As for 4 battles: look at the bigger picture. For those 4 you also won 4. Maybe sometimes even 4 in a row. Don't hear you complain about those

[SkollUlfr]

any match that ends 8:0 should be automatically recorded as a failure in the MM system. 

 

they are too common ex expect the playerbase to report them. but would be very easy to simply flag on ratio.

 

especially of the match ends over 8:0 in less than 10 minutes. this nonsense is boring af.

[anonym_cwVecOS6ecVy]

On 9/30/2020 at 10:19 PM, SkollUlfr said:

...the distribution of effective and ineffective players SHOULD be balanced on both teams, meaning the entire idea of one player having to compensate for weaker players, against the opposition team, would not be there.

 

as it is the MM spits out one sided washouts drastically more often than fun competitive battles.

though this isnt helped by obviously broken balance and mechanics.

Amen, my brother. The amount of steamroll matches is too damn high and either winning or losing in them is no fun. Check this out, like wtf? This should not even be possible:

 

 

To the „I want skill-based MM“ fraction: I bet most of you would lose drastically more games. It is the mix of matches that brings the fun. You do not want every single match to be the ultra sweaty competitive skill fest where you fight for blank survival every second of the game. That being said, what the match maker currently creates, are no good mixes of teams. It basically creates matches like the ones above that are utterly bs from the start and make people believe the MM is rigged. That is how f***** up the situation is.

 

The series or ultra wins or losses are driving me insane. One game you simply sail through the entire team and break damage records or win with ultra low damage because the game ended after a few minutes, in another game half of your team is dead when you arrive at one flank and you wonder what that match maker the f put together.

 

It is not a skill based MM question and not a qustion of +1 or same tier MM. The answer is the MM algorythm is f****** off. Maybe the population is too low? Maybe WG underlines their statement from WoT in WoWS that you only know what fun is when you know what suffering is?
 

It is frustrating to the point where I want to rip my hair out, light it on fire and hotbox my closet with burning hair stench.

[ForlornSailor]

26 minutes ago, Von_Pruss said:

It is not a skill based MM question and not a qustion of +1 or same tier MM. The answer is the MM algorythm is f****** off. Maybe the population is too low? Maybe WG underlines their statement from WoT in WoWS that you only know what fun is when you know what suffering is?
 

It is frustrating to the point where I want to rip my hair out, light it on fire and hotbox my closet with burning hair stench.

 

In my first game today, my side lost 3 of the 4 BBs within 5 mins. First blood was a Tirpitz roughly 3 mins in the game. I dont even know how that is possible. THAT is the real frustrating thing, the cluelessness of people. And that also leads to the roflstomps and/or super heavy uphill stuggles. When your team has 1 BB left and the game is in the early to mid stage, while the enemys has all 4 BBs on 90+% health then making a comeback from that is almost impossible. The chances of your cruisers beeing blabbed or going down to the fire of the 4 BBs compared to what your 1 BB, even if a super unicum, can do to prevent the loss, is yea, well, we all know how it goes else we wouldnt be here.

 

The root of the problem is the skill of the players and/or the will to actually play the game. I repeat myself but if WG would attack this, all problems would vanish or become very tiny compared to right now. Dont sell T9+ ships, dont make the economy as easy as it is right now. But at the same time that im asking this, I know it wont happen, since those clueless players throw a lot of money at WG. We are doomed, thats just the way it is.

[zekai7498]

01.10.2020 saat 22:48'de, 159Hunter dedi:

You know what the overall result of skillbased mm would be for you?

Winning less games than you do now.

 

As for 4 battles: look at the bigger picture. For those 4 you also won 4. Maybe sometimes even 4 in a row. Don't hear you complain about those

+Less cancer at least...

[Matthew_Hancock]

Sorry if this has already been suggested but this topic is already massive.... Would a pay to play and only let players buy premium ships when they have got to that tier in the tech tree help solve some of the problems of lower quality players playing above there level? From personal experience I really shouldn't have been playing at higher tiers, which is why I went back to t5 to learn things properly. 

Pay to play may keep the players who don't want to to improve out, nobody would pay just to get demolished every battle. It would mean a smaller player base but that player base might be more invested in the game. 

[SkollUlfr]

On 10/2/2020 at 9:18 PM, ForlornSailor said:

In my first game today, my side lost 3 of the 4 BBs within 5 mins. First blood was a Tirpitz roughly 3 mins in the game. I dont even know how that is possible. THAT is the real frustrating thing, the cluelessness of people. And that also leads to the roflstomps and/or super heavy uphill stuggles. When your team has 1 BB left and the game is in the early to mid stage, while the enemys has all 4 BBs on 90+% health then making a comeback from that is almost impossible.

the point being, why is the mm not distributing players so their ability is even on both sides.

 

5 hours ago, Matthew_Hancock said:

Would a pay to play and only let players buy premium ships when they have got to that tier in the tech tree help solve some of the problems of lower quality players playing above there level? From personal experience I really shouldn't have been playing at higher tiers, which is why I went back to t5 to learn things properly. 

the problem here is weegee base their entire game around driving players to t10 instead of making the entire game fun in different ways, using the tiers to do it. so the player base gets stuck with negligence toward lower tiers that could be more fun, due to calculated choices to build malice into lower tiers that makes players feel pressured to play high tiers.

 

the more players at t10, the more the mm drains t9 for the tier spread, the more t9 gets drained the more the mm pulls ships from t8 and so on. meaning by the time you get to t4/5/6 there are not enough players to fill out the mm, meaning t4/5/6/7 are more likely to be lower tier, due to there being more t7/8/9/10 players.

 

but that malicious negligence has also broken the game, and caused a loss of t9 player population.

 

there is a lot of destructive positive feedback systems built into the game that weegee dont want to address due to the goals of the game design.

 

what made you think buying a high tier premium ship was a good way to have more fun?

[zekai7498]

KEEP THIESE PEOPLE OFF FROM US!

[159Hunter]

1 hour ago, zekai7498 said:

KEEP THIESE PEOPLE OFF FROM US!

Is that the worst you've got

[zekai7498]

1 saat önce, 159Hunter dedi:

Is that the worst you've got

he was occupying a top tier slot,sniped entire game with BİSMARCK,he managed to lost the won game...I dont wanna see him again.

[TunaRoll]

Am 2.10.2020 um 21:46, Von_Pruss sagte:

Amen, my brother. The amount of steamroll matches is too damn high and either winning or losing in them is no fun. Check this out, like wtf? This should not even be possible:

 

 

To the „I want skill-based MM“ fraction: I bet most of you would lose drastically more games. It is the mix of matches that brings the fun. You do not want every single match to be the ultra sweaty competitive skill fest where you fight for blank survival every second of the game. That being said, what the match maker currently creates, are no good mixes of teams. It basically creates matches like the ones above that are utterly bs from the start and make people believe the MM is rigged. That is how f***** up the situation is.

 

The series or ultra wins or losses are driving me insane. One game you simply sail through the entire team and break damage records or win with ultra low damage because the game ended after a few minutes, in another game half of your team is dead when you arrive at one flank and you wonder what that match maker the f put together.

 

It is not a skill based MM question and not a qustion of +1 or same tier MM. The answer is the MM algorythm is f****** off. Maybe the population is too low? Maybe WG underlines their statement from WoT in WoWS that you only know what fun is when you know what suffering is?
 

It is frustrating to the point where I want to rip my hair out, light it on fire and hotbox my closet with burning hair stench.

+1. Absolutely true!

 

The MM needs at least SOME sort of management, its current state is just horrible. Currently im observing my team builds too via MM-Monitor and 9 out of 10 games are totally one-sided...either you win by a mile or you get crushed, depends on which side is equipped with more experienced players or with fewer beginners. Most matches are already decided the second the teams are formed. Actually, both sides should have both beginners and veterans in equal numbers, so that a certain balance arises. But for some (monetary??) reason WG refuses to do so..they just dont want to have any kind of balance.

 

 

The core problem is that WG centered the game on their "greed" instead of fun, long-term motivation and balance / fairness across all tiers.

This strategy is already known from WoT, which hit the wall extremely. WoWs is unfortunately following in the same footsteps. WG is kinda known for producing fun game designs and destroying them over the years with their very own greedy "monetization".