Matchmaker Discussion Thread & MM Balance

[Birkebein]

On 9/22/2020 at 10:49 PM, DFens_666 said:

 

Who is stopping me from playing a ship without 19pt captain? If that ensures better teammates, id do it. Most signals are also not "needed", anti-fire/heal-flag are ofc very strong for BBs/BCs, and secondary BBs want the secondary flag. DDs want Deto-flag.

[...]

As for "winners dont want to change it", should that be a surprise? They all invested time and effort into becoming better players. So the better they become, the worse their teammates get... what kinda incentive is that to get better?

[...]

Two ways ahead here...

 

One is balancing the combat assets teams bring to the battle.  WG has begun the asset balancing by matching number, type and tiers of ships (ok, now we've got asymmetric battles to balance too) so there's recognition that combat assets need to be balanced... at some level. 

 

The next level of balancing could include captain skills, flags, camos, premium ships, maybe even the number of people in divisions.  The objection to this level of balancing is that it will be "gamed" - I'm sure it would, but it would also further balance the game.  New players complain that they don't have the "economy" to run with all relevant combat flags (I've even seen ships in ranked without camo ) - for sure they don't have the captain skills and this makes a difference and there's no viable option to make up for this disadvantage.  Personally, I'd like all combat assets to be balanced as a more level playing field would make battles more fun - for both winners and losers.

 

The second way to achieving balance is simply for the MM to create teams with equal WRs - maybe if a balanced outcome was the objective of WG/the MM then this would make sense, but I don't believe this will ever be WGs goal, and, as much as players would like to say that taking part is most important/fun, I'm sure the majority feel like winning is the very best and most important aspect of taking part!  For new players a MM based on matching WRs to achieve a balanced outcome isn't much fun either, first, you'd know you're being carried (not a good feeling), second, you'll realise that there's no reason to try to improve (pretty demoralising).

 

Anyhow, it'd be great if the MM provided teams with balanced combat assets, then the fight would be fairer and winning more satisfying.  Players who argue that it's all player skill that decides outcomes would be in a position to be proven right (I actually believe they are right, mostly), and new players would have something to strive for while playing in a balanced environment.

 

OK, who is going to argue that WG's balancing has already gone too far?  I mean, why shouldn't I be able to enter my Thunderer in a match where the enemy are all tier 1?  It's not my fault I've earned enough coal to get the special captain and trained him up, saved resources for all the combat flags etc.  Come on WG, this isn't kindergarten but a game for grown ups, what's fair is that all can play - how much they play and pay is up to them - that's the definition of fair!  My investment rightfully entitles me to win - don't balance the tiers, the ships, the captain skills or anything else, and don't punish me because I've made good friends who've all also "invested" - our clan should be honoured and our divs rightfully victorious!  FFS, people, "git gud" 

[ForlornSailor]

47 minutes ago, Birkebein said:

OK, who is going to argue that WG's balancing has already gone too far?  I mean, why shouldn't I be able to enter my Thunderer in a match where the enemy are all tier 1?  It's not my fault I've earned enough coal to get the special captain and trained him up, saved resources for all the combat flags etc.  Come on WG, this isn't kindergarten but a game for grown ups, what's fair is that all can play - how much they play and pay is up to them - that's the definition of fair!  My investment rightfully entitles me to win - don't balance the tiers, the ships, the captain skills or anything else, and don't punish me because I've made good friends who've all also "invested" - our clan should be honoured and our divs rightfully victorious!  FFS, people, "git gud" 

 

You seem to have missed the times, when this was possible.

 

 

[Bear__Necessities]

Wanna see how steam rolls happen??

 

https://replayswows.com/replay/108462#stats

 

Even I was shocked at how easy it was to out think 12 opponents....

[Darkeid]

Greetings to all (again), i genuinely would like to ask if it isn't supposed to be that players below 200 battles are only matched in their own "newbie" tier ?

Also, i`d like to point out that matching 6 below average players vs 3 caused an imbalance that should be improved. I.E. if there are 9 below average players would it not be fairer to distribute them 5-4 per team. Also , i wouldn't normally include this but the unofficial non WG forum fanatics of this thread find it more honest also seeing the battle results. A 5 vs 10 ships downed isnt a regular-normal roflstomp but can be called a one-sided battle.


Secondly in the 4 games played today:



Another example of unequal MM distribution happened here:

Lastly to avoid the unnecessary repetitions i kindly request that If however, you're not from WG or a mod and any of my opinion above, differs from your opinion of the game in it's current state, feel free to save us both time and don't bother replying for my sake. Thank you. 

[ColonelPete]

6 minutes ago, Darkeid said:

Greetings to all (again), i genuinely would like to ask if it isn't supposed to be that players below 200 battles are only matched in their own "newbie" tier ?

No. The Tier you play is decided by you.

The players you play with is decided by your battle number.

But if you knew about the MM rules, you would know that restrictions apply to that.

 

When you play with an experienced player in division or play Tier V or higher, you always play with the general playerbase.

[Aethervoxx]

MM balance? No such thing. Never was.

Does WF care? Not a chance.

'MV Balance' sailed years ago & was lost at Sea who knows where.

 

 

[Aethervoxx]

This game deserves to go bankrupt.

[ColonelPete]

1 hour ago, Aethervoxx said:

This game deserves to go bankrupt.

Says the one playing 74 battles this month...

[DFens_666]

4 hours ago, Darkeid said:

Also, i`d like to point out that matching 6 below average players vs 3 caused an imbalance that should be improved. I.E. if there are 9 below average players would it not be fairer to distribute them 5-4 per team.

 

Since he doesnt read this anyway, but to show everyone else, why this doesnt make sense:

 

Look at this. This must be a very good player, right? Nope

80% of his games in T1 ship.

 

Incidently, he does decide to pop into TX once in a while

 

So from that, we can already conclude, overall stats are extremely useless to balance players. My example might be an extreme case, but there are others nonetheless.

Sure, if you go by a specific ship, the MM could decide based on him playing T1 or TX. If he plays T1, he is good, if he plays TX, he is bad.

But individual ships need a certain amount of games to be conclusive in the first place. For average players, this is even more true, as they need more games to learn a ship. They eventually will get it, and become better at it.

Small sample size can result in this

So where does it put me when i play Fuso? In the easy team because my WR is bad? Or not because my avg damage and kills are high?

 

questions over questions...

 

[159Hunter]

6 hours ago, Darkeid said:

Lastly to avoid the unnecessary repetitions i kindly request that If however, you're not from WG or a mod and any of my opinion above, differs from your opinion of the game in it's current state, feel free to save us both time and don't bother replying for my sake. Thank you. 

Seems like you understand a public forum as much as WG MM.

Yet we are the ones with issues?

[Fatal_Ramses]

I am so god  done playing this game on weekends, ranked or random.

I rather try to do an SL1 no hit run Dark Souls than play this on weekends.

[smacker1000]

this games match making is so broken I've literally lost about 5% winrate in randoms due to the whole team going to 1 cap and sitting and letting the enemy flank and boom lost romp stop match  

[GarrusBrutus]

1 minute ago, smacker1000 said:

this games match making is so broken I've literally lost about 5% winrate in randoms due to the whole team going to 1 cap and sitting and letting the enemy flank and boom lost romp stop match  

no, I am sorry to burst your bubble but you're just bad. 37k avg dmg in T9 is really bad. Accept that you're not ready for higher tiers. Learn more about the game in lower tiers before moving up.

[smacker1000]

3 minutes ago, GarrusBrutus said:

no, I am sorry to burst your bubble but you're just bad. 37k avg dmg in T9 is really bad. Accept that you're not ready for higher tiers. Learn more about the game in lower tiers before moving up.

ive been paying now for a few years and yes i only have 1 tier 9 and 10 but when u get mostly overpens and ricochets thats what u get with really bad dispersion and yes i have them built for accuracy but stilll get really bad rng

[ColonelPete]

17 minutes ago, smacker1000 said:

this games match making is so broken I've literally lost about 5% winrate in randoms due to the whole team going to 1 cap and sitting and letting the enemy flank and boom lost romp stop match  

Nope. You were never that good.

[DFens_666]

13 minutes ago, smacker1000 said:

ive been paying now for a few years and yes i only have 1 tier 9 and 10 but when u get mostly overpens and ricochets thats what u get with really bad dispersion and yes i have them built for accuracy but stilll get really bad rng

 

Everyone has RNG and dispersion?

Getting ricochets is shooting wrong places and not RNG.

Overpens can be aiming too high and/or bad RNG.

[ForlornSailor]

37 minutes ago, smacker1000 said:

ive been paying now for a few years and yes i only have 1 tier 9 and 10 but when u get mostly overpens and ricochets thats what u get with really bad dispersion and yes i have them built for accuracy but stilll get really bad rng

 

Are you aware of you own stats and do you know how to interpret them? Serious question as many dont know about pages like wows-numbers.

Its pretty obvious, that you are not ready to play T10. A ship like Yamato needs an experianced captain, that knows where to position, what to shoot and how to shoot at those targets. You are not there yet, no offense.

 

My sincere advice: Instead of complaining in the forum, use it to your advantage. You can open a new topic and ask people for help, upload some replays and you will get valuable input. Usualy this gives you an instant boost on damage and WR, if you are able to convert the information provided.

[buttonF1]

WG no more really no more Money for you i spend 4digit amount of money in WoT and WoWs and still stuck with your joke RNG and MM is that hard to have 50% 

[ColonelPete]

1 hour ago, buttonF1 said:

WG no more really no more Money for you i spend 4digit amount of money in WoT and WoWs and still stuck with your joke RNG and MM is that hard to have 50% 

It is pretty easy to be slightly above average. Even you managed that.

[smacker1000]

On 9/27/2020 at 9:03 AM, ForlornSailor said:

 

Are you aware of you own stats and do you know how to interpret them? Serious question as many dont know about pages like wows-numbers.

Its pretty obvious, that you are not ready to play T10. A ship like Yamato needs an experianced captain, that knows where to position, what to shoot and how to shoot at those targets. You are not there yet, no offense.

 

My sincere advice: Instead of complaining in the forum, use it to your advantage. You can open a new topic and ask people for help, upload some replays and you will get valuable input. Usualy this gives you an instant boost on damage and WR, if you are able to convert the information provided.

i no im not very good with my yami yet but when u get top 3 in matches with my skill which is still not very good plus flamuu literally just made a video featuring him in an al yukikaze were he held a whole flank by him self and still lost and thats what my orginal post was about as thats how almost all my games go. and yes i no im nowhere near his skill 

[159Hunter]

57 minutes ago, smacker1000 said:

i no im not very good with my yami yet but when u get top 3 in matches with my skill which is still not very good plus flamuu literally just made a video featuring him in an al yukikaze were he held a whole flank by him self and still lost and thats what my orginal post was about as thats how almost all my games go. and yes i no im nowhere near his skill 

/confused

So what exactly is your point?

And what's the link to your previous post about overpens and ricochets?

 

 

[ForlornSailor]

3 hours ago, smacker1000 said:

plus flamuu literally just made a video featuring him in an al yukikaze were he held a whole flank by him self and still lost and thats what my orginal post was about as thats how almost all my games go

 

It happens to all of us and no matter how you would tweak the matchnmaking it would happen regardless. Its in the nature of such environments - rather large sized, random teams with a somewhat stone-paper-scissor-concept and no respawn.

Small mistakes or small really good moves already have a huge impact on the game. You could see it in KotS, where one tiny misjudgement already steers the game heavily in favour of one team. And mind you, those are coordinated teams with some of the best players around that hardly make any mistake in the first place.

 

And to look at it from another perspective: what would tempering with the matchmaker achieve? you would hardly win any more games as you do right now. You would go to 5 out of 10, if this "balancing" is done "perfect". And the better you personally play, the more throws you will witness. Because to balance you getting better - the matchmaker will put worse people on your team. Thats seriously the bottomline of where all this balancing by skill leads to. So how would you be more happy then?

 

Honestly, work on your own skill. The only satisfying thing in this game is those moments, when you carry a game from a clear defeat and turn it into a victory and you know: "I made the difference". Set this as your goal. Ofc its not gonna be every game, thats again impossible.

[TunaRoll]

The game is in a very bad state imo....at this point you cannot really enjoy either random or ranked mode. Something has happened to the player base and/or the matchmakin in the last ~30 days . Most rounds are decided in the very first minutes, most likely because one side is steamrolling the other side.

 

People are leaving the game because of that, despite WGs effort thru collaborations and stuff like that. In september WoWs had its biggest drop in "average players" (-1000) and "gain/growth" (-11%) since it has launched.

 

https://steamcharts.com/app/552990

[ColonelPete]

Nothing happened in the last 30 days with the playerbase. You can read the same complaints for 5 years...

And the wows server stats do not support your claim. We have now more players than during the beginning of the month.

[ObiWankov]

7 hours ago, TunaRoll said:

The game is in a very bad state imo....at this point you cannot really enjoy either random or ranked mode. Something has happened to the player base and/or the matchmakin in the last ~30 days . Most rounds are decided in the very first minutes, most likely because one side is steamrolling the other side.

 

People are leaving the game because of that, despite WGs effort thru collaborations and stuff like that. In september WoWs had its biggest drop in "average players" (-1000) and "gain/growth" (-11%) since it has launched.

 

https://steamcharts.com/app/552990

 

Lately it has been really bad, agreed.

 

Maybe i’m getting majorly screwed by MM but at least half the players on each side are deep red. Got nothing to prove it with, but it feels way worse than in August.