Matchmaker Discussion Thread & MM Balance

[Follow_The_Force]

I'mean where is the logic and how can it make sense for a player with 300 battles to enter and play ranked , i mean are you trying to give as nervous breakdown or we need to sue you for PTSD...i mean it honestly wt* ?

[Excavatus]

1 hour ago, Miro_unconquerable said:

I'mean where is the logic and how can it make sense for a player with 300 battles to enter and play ranked , i mean are you trying to give as nervous breakdown or we need to sue you for PTSD...i mean it honestly wt* ?

I've had a teammate in asashio with 100+ battles in ranked.. accusing other DDs of cheating because the torps sail past under them. 

That guy was above rank 5... 

[GarrusBrutus]

1 hour ago, Excavatus said:

I've had a teammate in asashio with 100+ battles in ranked.. accusing other DDs of cheating because the torps sail past under them. 

That guy was above rank 5... 

That does it.

[aler1x]

Vor 6 Stunden, ColonelPete sagte:

Look at the frustrated complaints about Ranked. That is +0 MM with smaller teams.

I can only speak for myself of course, but I think I get frustrated much easier in ranked because of the combination of higher stakes (I mean, you lose a STAR! A whole STAR! And I have an annoying tendency of being second-best in a losing team this season...) and the higher impact one or two complete idiots have on the game, since playing effectively 6v7 or 5v7 is much harder than 11v12 or 10v12. And maybe ist also disbelief about how little people who already know how to change battle mode and willingly change it to ranked know about the game...

[VonMacher]

12 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

Look at the frustrated complaints about Ranked. That is +0 MM with smaller teams.

Exactly. So +1 MM is not a solution? I agree. But you think neither skill based MM is a solution, as far as I understood. I believe it is. Not the skill within one team off course, but evenly distributed players skills to both teams. That would most probably bring some excitement  into battles. We all want to win the battle (off course), but I do claim it is not all about winning. It is about to have a decent, tight and exciting battle of two worthy opponents. Nine out of ten battles are not like that. 

[GarrusBrutus]

1 hour ago, VonMacher said:

Exactly. So +1 MM is not a solution? I agree. But you think neither skill based MM is a solution, as far as I understood. I believe it is. Not the skill within one team off course, but evenly distributed players skills to both teams. That would most probably bring some excitement  into battles. We all want to win the battle (off course), but I do claim it is not all about winning. It is about to have a decent, tight and exciting battle of two worthy opponents. Nine out of ten battles are not like that. 

As explained a million times already:

This would encourage players to play worse. Because then they'd get better teammates in return.

F. e. "Oh you have 65% wr? Here have some 45%ers on your team to balance you."

Result: Im gonna make sure im no longer 65% to get better teammates.

Result: Everyone will try to play worse to get better teammates.

Result: Everyone will have +-50%wr.

Result: Matchmaking is once again Random

 

Aye lmao voila! we've gone full circle.

[mdjmcnally]

One thing that definitely needs to be done is fix so that only 1 CV per game.

 

I have no problems with the concept of CV or that DD will spot from concealment but they do need to start limiting to 1 CV for ransoms.

 

there have been events where restrict types and level so no reason why cannot be done technically.

 

 

[Excavatus]

13 hours ago, VonMacher said:

Exactly. So +1 MM is not a solution? I agree. But you think neither skill based MM is a solution, as far as I understood. I believe it is. Not the skill within one team off course, but evenly distributed players skills to both teams. That would most probably bring some excitement  into battles. We all want to win the battle (off course), but I do claim it is not all about winning. It is about to have a decent, tight and exciting battle of two worthy opponents. Nine out of ten battles are not like that. 

everyone making the same mistake. 

Unfun battles, roflstomps, one sided battles.. the cause is not the game mechanics (mostly)

The cause is the people who are playing the game. 

 

You can only blame WG for not educating their community enough. 

But what can you do when an asashio captain accuses the other DD for cheating because he sailed over torpedoes? 

What education can give someone who are incapable of reading 3 lines of text when making a purchase. 

These are not kids (mostly) these are educated adults who mostly has a permanent job. 

most of them believes they are ok. 

 

It is like ZOUP said in his last video, %90 of the player base.. DOES NOT CARE! 

[trlazg]

I just wanna say that if they don't reduce that +/- 2T to 1, I won't be playing anymore... And I'm sure that many others share the very same opinion

[VonMacher]

On 8/6/2020 at 7:43 PM, GarrusBrutus said:

As explained a million times already:

This would encourage players to play worse. Because then they'd get better teammates in return.

F. e. "Oh you have 65% wr? Here have some 45%ers on your team to balance you."

Result: Im gonna make sure im no longer 65% to get better teammates.

Result: Everyone will try to play worse to get better teammates.

Result: Everyone will have +-50%wr.

Result: Matchmaking is once again Random

 

Aye lmao voila! we've gone full circle.

Well, I disagree on that one. Since we are all humans (not bots), we want to do things better all the time. At least most of us. It is our nature.

So we all want to play better, to be a part in our team victory as much as possible. Off course, we are not all unicum players so "the best I can do" sometimes mismatch with other opinions. Long story short, no one will play worse to deliberately degrade his stats. More equalized teams (skills related) would bring more excitement and more personal engagement, because then and only then every shell matters even from 40% WR player.

Present MM leads us to battles where outcome is mostly predictable within 2 minutes after start.

We don't have to be Einsteins to conclude that. Just look at the Match making monitor or Potato alert. Team devastation can be predicted with 100% precision, with just few data available. If those data have similar values, than we can expect decent battle (not every time, but most often it is).

Random matchmaking yes, by all means. It should be random, but not chaotic. WG already established some limits (boundaries) to put some sense on that "randomness". So there is no reason not to fine tune it.

[ColonelPete]

26 minutes ago, VonMacher said:

Team devastation can be predicted with 100% precision, with just few data available.

That was disproven countless times. Even teams with weaker stats win.

[VonMacher]

On 8/7/2020 at 8:13 AM, Excavatus said:

everyone making the same mistake. 

Unfun battles, roflstomps, one sided battles.. the cause is not the game mechanics (mostly)

The cause is the people who are playing the game. 

 

You can only blame WG for not educating their community enough. 

But what can you do when an asashio captain accuses the other DD for cheating because he sailed over torpedoes? 

What education can give someone who are incapable of reading 3 lines of text when making a purchase. 

These are not kids (mostly) these are educated adults who mostly has a permanent job. 

most of them believes they are ok. 

 

It is like ZOUP said in his last video, %90 of the player base.. DOES NOT CARE! 

You are completely right about that. It's mostly all about people. And we are all very different - otherwise life would be boring :) .

It is very much recognizable (stats related), how to assemble teams to have decent battle.

 

Well, 90% player base are not unicum or super unicum players, so it might look like they (we) don't care. But most of us do care, at least to have a good, exciting battle where we introduce all we have (skills related), to help our team to achieve victory.

You can't blame that guy not knowing about deep torps, just let MM to put him where he belongs, still to have equalized teams. I other team should be other guy not knowing his torps are just 6 km range. :)

I stop care when half of my (or opposed) team is devastated within few minutes after battle start. Since most of us are not Flamu or Flambass, we can not carry our devastated teams to victory or even close to it. Than I care only for my own dmg and XP gain.

[Ruth_clifton]

ALL  TIERS  SHOULD  BE    THE   SAME     LIKE    TIER  1   AND  TIER  10

[SV_Kompresor]

They might as well make a ranked system without actual mm but just based purely on how high on the scoreboard you end up. The higher up you end , the more points you get. The higher on the losing team you end up, the less you lose. Now you just need to earn a certain amount of points to reach a certain rank and that's it. Heavily limit the BB cap to prevent them from having too much of an impact on point "saving" and you're done.

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

On 8/7/2020 at 8:13 AM, Excavatus said:

everyone making the same mistake. 

Unfun battles, roflstomps, one sided battles.. the cause is not the game mechanics (mostly)

The cause is the people who are playing the game. 

 

You can only blame WG for not educating their community enough. 

But what can you do when an asashio captain accuses the other DD for cheating because he sailed over torpedoes? 

What education can give someone who are incapable of reading 3 lines of text when making a purchase. 

These are not kids (mostly) these are educated adults who mostly has a permanent job. 

most of them believes they are ok. 

 

It is like ZOUP said in his last video, %90 of the player base.. DOES NOT CARE! 

We can blame WG for much more. The level of gameplay has gotten worse, and that has everything to do with WGs choices in lowering gameplay standards. Carriers are the prime example of this. Their gameplay went from specialized skill class to overly simplistic, so they reap what they sow, and are probably happy with it too.

'Players don't care' or stop caring, when games are overly simplistic, and are more about hoarding and farming then coherent competitive gameplay, because players don't even expect to have to put much effort in the gameplay aspect to farm their . They are not invested in the game skill and effort wise, and no matter how bad a player is, with money and time everyone reaches the higher tiers because that part of the game does not require any learning and skill at all. There is no need to learn and practice and git gud to farm and collect stuff.

 

WG has been focused on that incentive and on that alone. WG has taken it's lessons from the mobile game market, and it results in an uneducated and money-at-problems throwing player base. Which is their target, so don't expect anything from this developer but more of the same. Extensive gameplay requirements does not fit an agenda that is built around gambling, lootboxes and selling as many assets as they can before players notice money doesn't fix the unskilled effort.

[zekai7498]

Hi,weekends become really dreadful recently;

The mm sometimes creating whole teams with low win rated,incapable players.One of my LOST game i got 1500  base xp,my teammates had below 600,all of them...This kind of situations  has begun to happen more often than ever.The mm should consider player stats(WR) beside tier based matching.Otherwise,its frustrating...Or i demand endless daily report right:)

 

[Besserwisser3000]

Am 7.8.2020 um 14:13, Excavatus sagte:

everyone making the same mistake. 

Unfun battles, roflstomps, one sided battles.. the cause is not the game mechanics (mostly)

The cause is the people who are playing the game. 

 

You can only blame WG for not educating their community enough. 

But what can you do when an asashio captain accuses the other DD for cheating because he sailed over torpedoes? 

What education can give someone who are incapable of reading 3 lines of text when making a purchase. 

These are not kids (mostly) these are educated adults who mostly has a permanent job. 

most of them believes they are ok. 

 

It is like ZOUP said in his last video, %90 of the player base.. DOES NOT CARE! 

 

Lost 4 out of 5 matches today. Every single game first place. Average damage around 100k, 2 kills.

Super Unicum rating with 20% win.

 

But WG surely is not to blame for it. Why would the gaming company be to blame for a lack of decent MM.

lol.

 

Is this a comedy thread?

 

In any other game I would have left my gaming session with a good feeling of having done well. Here? I feel like I have been fucked over and that my skill had zero impact on the outcome of my matches.

 

The only people who really 100% do not care are the WoWs devs.

 

 

[PredatorBunny]

I just played a ranked game where the MM had gone bananas.

 

On each team.

1 CV

1 Baltimore

rest dds

 

On my team

1 Assashio with deepwater torps

2 kagero 

1 kidd

1 öland

 

On other team

2 akizuki

1 kidd

1 loyang

1 kagero

 

It was not an even match......

[The_Almighty_Spreadsheet]

Today, i lost a battle where i died first as an Amagi. standard T8 v.s T9-10 MM, anyways, i only got three salvos off before i got killed. The end scoreboard showed that i was third on my team. This is not uncommon either.

[hardkur911]

problem with matchmaking is that its not random , i dont believe game put me in loosing matches over and over again and its the way it supouse to be . i think wargaming is nice to the whales and put them in stronger teams , rest of us is just cannon fodder . u can look at a team at game start and already knew its lost due to combination of ships or lack of skilled players . If i can do it without resources , there is no excuse wargaming with they acces to all information ingame is incapable of making better matchmaking . 6 smolensk vs 6 stalingrad is not funny . and all they need to do is put 3 of them on other side . its called balance no ?

[DFens_666]

20 minutes ago, hardkur911 said:

i think wargaming is nice to the whales and put them in stronger teams ,

 

I cant quite understand how that would make any sense, except that there would be no playerskill, and everything is just predetermined by some teams being "strong" and others "weak".

Or lets put it like this:

- Will bad players, who spent a lot of money be paired with good players who dont spent money? Are there good players who dont spent money?

Wouldnt that mean, good players would be punished by carrying bad players?

[hardkur911]

4 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

I cant quite understand how that would make any sense, except that there would be no playerskill, and everything is just predetermined by some teams being "strong" and others "weak".

Or lets put it like this:

- Will bad players, who spent a lot of money be paired with good players who dont spent money? Are there good players who dont spent money?

Wouldnt that mean, good players would be punished by carrying bad players?

i knew im getting close to thin foil hat crazy here , and wargaming will never admit it so its kinda pintless to even argue about it . but if u ever played at weekend evening im sure u knew what im talking about .

it also work other way sometimes u have win streak for 10 games without doing anything (and these is also not interesting to play ) , what is even more funny sometimes to stop loosing all i need to do is to reset game twice and puff magic i start wining again , like game put me on some other server or something cant rly explain it .

[DFens_666]

8 minutes ago, hardkur911 said:

i knew im getting close to thin foil hat crazy here , and wargaming will never admit it so its kinda pintless to even argue about it . but if u ever played at weekend evening im sure u knew what im talking about .

it also work other way sometimes u have win streak for 10 games without doing anything (and these is also not interesting to play ) , what is even more funny sometimes to stop loosing all i need to do is to reset game twice and puff magic i start wining again , like game put me on some other server or something cant rly explain it .

 

Well i do have my own believes about how WG might influence the game, but in regards to spending money (or not), i havent seen any indications that there might be anything to that. Seen too many whale accounts with dozens of premiums but 40% WR.

[ColonelPete]

9 minutes ago, hardkur911 said:

i knew im getting close to thin foil hat crazy here , and wargaming will never admit it so its kinda pintless to even argue about it . but if u ever played at weekend evening im sure u knew what im talking about .

it also work other way sometimes u have win streak for 10 games without doing anything (and these is also not interesting to play ) , what is even more funny sometimes to stop loosing all i need to do is to reset game twice and puff magic i start wining again , like game put me on some other server or something cant rly explain it .

You are contradicting your own theory. 

Why does "resetting" help when it is supposed to be all about the money?

 

Why are there so many whales with 4x% winrating?

Why do we have F2P unicums?

[hardkur911]

5 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

You are contradicting your own theory. 

Why does "resetting" help when it is supposed to be all about the money?

 

Why are there so many whales with 4x% winrating?

Why do we have F2P unicums?

u right , its just a stupid theory i throw it here mby someone else will refine it ;-) all im trying to say is that these loosing - roll over streeks, game after game team whipped out these stopped looking random for me some time ago and im trying to figure out whats up . im not best player but im around 50% winrate so i dont think its my fault im most case scenarios . i understeand everybody can have bad day or try to play drunk etc .

 

and 40% winrate people with 20k games played , is a damn mystery for me , some of them are veterans with disabilities or people with brain damage that like shoot ships cuz its slower than Counter-strike or stuff like that ( im not making poor joke i meet them its for realz )