Matchmaker Discussion Thread & MM Balance

[lossi_2018]

On 7/4/2020 at 1:08 AM, Floofz said:

I might be the only one to think this thou, and thats fine I guess.

You are not the only one :)

[Darkeid]

9 hours ago, Excavatus said:

First of all, how many times It's been sid, I've already forgot but gonna tell this again, Moderators are not WG employees. 

We are regular players like others, just have some volunteered moderating duties in the forum. 

 

Anyway, thanks for the answer, 

so basically you want good players to be punished by being responsible to carry EVERY match they play, 

and bad players to be rewarded by getting carried.. So there won't be any incentive for them to git gud! 

Imagine the worse you get, the better players you get on your team :) 

Amazing!! 

 

And the opposite is true... the better you get, game will give you worse and worse players as team mates.. 

 

@Excavatus Firstly, i'm sorry, i thought you were an official WG employee. Secondly, please try to see the point i am trying to outline here. 

Roflstomps are not the way to git gud , it is a pointless loss of time that only offers frustration and negative stats. As it is, (being generous) at least 3 out of 10 matches have predetermined outcomes. No matter if you are super unicum as a solo player or even duo division can not overcome the situation where one team in its ranks has 6 players with an account of around 500 total battles -15k-30k avg dmg and is getting matched against 6 players of around 3-7.5k battles account with 50k - 130k average dmg. 

Whilst i understand what you are trying to say, i do not have all the answers nor can a single person devise the perfect matchmaker by himself. What can be done is point out the areas in which the current system is failing. Fixing the matchmaker to create even stat-wise teams does not mean that good players are punished, almost all other online games i.e. LoL have some sort of tier system that separates below average players to higher Elo? players and believe me no one thinks they are punished. A variation of that could also be implemented here. 

[ForlornSailor]

1 minute ago, Darkeid said:

almost all other online games i.e. LoL have some sort of tier system that separates below average players to higher Elo? players and believe me no one thinks they are punished. A variation of that could also be implemented here. 

 

The problem with that is, that here you are depended on XP / credits, while in other games not (or not like this!). Meaning: the better you perform, the higher will be your XP reward. And granted, its easier (on average atleast), to gain more XP/Credits in the current environment then in any other suggested in this topic - for the good players. Now if you look at the not-so-good performing players: they´d profit, because they only face each other (talking about an ELO-like system, seperating groups complelty from each other). Now you can ofc say, that are petty thoughts, but why should a clearly worse player get all the time the same XP/WR/credits then a clearly better player due to seperated matchmaking? It would also make any sorts of stats unuseable, because with skill-divided matchmaking, everyone scores high damage.

 

There was a really nice suggestion in the other topic, where @loppantorkel and @Hanse77SWE came up with a "casual-competetive" mode as an permanent addition to the existing gamemodes. This has the potential to ease many problems we currently see in the randoms. And it would solve problems for both ends of the playerbase. Imo - we as a community should push for this solution, as it offers something for everyone without having any downsides (or I fail to see one).

[Seepheerd]

Still like the jokes wg makes for us with mm :D

[DFens_666]

40 minutes ago, Darkeid said:

As it is, (being generous) at least 3 out of 10 matches have predetermined outcomes.

 

More like 6 out of 10. 3 wins  / 3 losses pretty much guaranteed if you play solo.

[Besserwisser3000]

Vor 14 Stunden, Excavatus sagte:

rigged for what? 

to make specific players lose? 

Why those people though? 

why not others? 

 

 

Because those people have certain win rates.

Your system is built to push it down so the sub 50% win guys don`t feel too bad. This is done by progressively worse teammates.

I mean, you even have a patent on it, but surely enough ColonelShill will come out of the woodwork again soon enough to explain to me that this is a conspiracy theory.

 

Your MM is the _worst_ I have ever experienced. It feels like roulette and not like receiving the outcome of your effort and skill.

 

 

Look at my case: Why am I constantly losing in ships I cannot hard carry in? I can`t even [edited]reach 50% win in German Battleships. Do my stats indicate that I am a 45 or 40% win player?

No? So, let`s put aside all the dumb "it`s all short term luck" crap. At n=50-100 I expect a statistical analysis with detailed explanation as to how I can lose that much.

I have another account with 10% higher WR in those ships.

 

None of the WG shills or employees has ever provided me with one. Your pathetic customer service refers me back to this forum.

So, where is it? Please, I am waiting.

 

 

 

[Excavatus]

10 minutes ago, Besserwisser3000 said:

 

Because those people have certain win rates.

Your system is built to push it down so the sub 50% win guys don`t feel too bad. This is done by progressively worse teammates.

I mean, you even have a patent on it, but surely enough ColonelShill will come out of the woodwork again soon enough to explain to me that this is a conspiracy theory.

 

Your MM is the _worst_ I have ever experienced. It feels like roulette and not like receiving the outcome of your effort and skill.

 

 

Look at my case: Why am I constantly losing in ships I cannot hard carry in? I can`t even [edited]reach 50% win in German Battleships. Do my stats indicate that I am a 45 or 40% win player?

No? So, let`s put aside all the dumb "it`s all short term luck" crap. At n=50-100 I expect a statistical analysis with detailed explanation as to how I can lose that much.

I have another account with 10% higher WR in those ships.

 

None of the WG shills or employees has ever provided me with one. Your pathetic customer service refers me back to this forum.

So, where is it? Please, I am waiting.

 

 

 

first of all, and again, it is not MY MM, no MY System, not MY company. 

I'm a player like you.. 

 

And I'm certainly not gonna try o convinvce you these are only shadows when you are sure they are monsters.. 

I've given the answers you're looking for may be 10 times just in this topic, so as the others. 

you don't want to accept or even consider them.. so, lets agree to disagree.. 

MM is rigged for you.. 

MM is not rigged for me.. 

Lets have it like this. 

[ColonelPete]

10 minutes ago, Besserwisser3000 said:

Because those people have certain win rates.

Your system is built to push it down so the sub 50% win guys don`t feel too bad. This is done by progressively worse teammates.

That is why you have over 60% WR...

11 minutes ago, Besserwisser3000 said:

Look at my case: Why am I constantly losing in ships I cannot hard carry in? I can`t even [edited]reach 50% win in German Battleships. Do my stats indicate that I am a 45 or 40% win player?

No? So, let`s put aside all the dumb "it`s all short term luck" crap. At n=50-100 I expect a statistical analysis with detailed explanation as to how I can lose that much.

I have another account with 10% higher WR in those ships.

Maybe their playstyle does not fit you from Tier VIII+?

And yes, with these battle numbers bad luck can play a role.

[Excavatus]

10 hours ago, Darkeid said:

almost all other online games

Show me any other online game with NO RESPAWN mechanic, and divided into 10 tiers and hundreds of different ships? 

That is the point you (not you in personal but people asking SBMM in general) refuse to see.. 

You cannot implement SBMM in this match system... 

Someone tried with another tank game, They've lost players faster than shooting stars.. They've tried to revert it into random.. but it was too late for them. 

They've come out the idea "WE HAVE THE SBMM YOU'VE BEEN ASKING FOR YEARS" people ran there.. 

then ran back.. 

 

Let me give you an example.. 

What are you gonna use as indicator.. like many people suggested.. WR? 

 

Here, my general WR: 

 

but here my WR for Helena : 

 

and my moskva : 

 

My Iowa : 

 

My Harugumo: 

 

M kremlin : 

 

My Musashi: 

 

And My bismarck : 

 

So where this MM supposed to put me in? 

 

you may suggest, the MM shoud look into not only global WR but also into Tier WR, Ship WR, Class WR.. 

Can't you see how long it would for MM to put together a match, especially at certain hours.. 

 

But regardless of these above.. 

I want to stress it out again.. 

you cannot put SBMM into a game without a respawn mechanic.. 

SBMM is founded on the idea of creating equal and fair teams.. 

The teams will be equal and fair, until you lose one ship... then equal and fair flies out the window.. 

poof.. gone.. SBMM will strengthen the snowball effect.. 

[159Hunter]

You can keep discussing all you want. The ONLY thing that can help stop these roflstomps is education.

WG ( or @Excavatus as some like to put it  ) needs to provide proper , ingame tutorials and training. Not some videos on YT, no proper ingame stuff.

Secondly the PLAYERS need to be willing to learn from these. If all a player wants to do is sail around like a ********** ****** then he has no place in randoms and should stick to coop. Anyone willing to learn the basics will be a much better player than your avg 47% WR guy. He might still not get to 52%, but at least he knows what he's doing and can help his TEAM rather than dragging it down by his or her mere presence.

[Excavatus]

1 hour ago, 159Hunter said:

If all a player wants to do is sail around like a ********** ****** then he has no place in randoms and should stick to coop

This is an idea many can agree but in reality, everybody have the same right to play regardless of how they play... 

Sad story though... 

[DFens_666]

6 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

This is an idea many can agree but in reality, everybody have the same right to play regardless of how they play... 

Sad story though... 

 

Quote

or with passive participation of the player within the battle (excessive and repetitive passive play).

 

Nah, its in the rules. But i guess noone knows how they enforce that rule...

[AkulaTSR]

3 battles tonight (As much BS as i could handle) , 3 ROFLSTOMPS , 2 for the enemy , one for my team.

 

Turned it off disgusted , put Netflix on. 

 

Problem solved

 

 

 

 

[Tegli4]

Tonight I really got my blood pressure high enough to post here. Played nine games, lost seven. Five of the games were stomps, the last one was so bad that i find myself here.

 

My teams average win rate in the last game was staggering 46.57 while the enemy had 51.21 (average of the players page). Both teams had a player with 36 and 37 win rate (frankly, you must actively work against your team to be that "bad" after two thousand games). Here is a table from the end ranking. I was top of my team with the very impressive 26k damage done. I can't imagine how bad were the results of the rest of my team. I know it is a single game, but after I had games like this whole evening.. it is just too much. I do not play this game to torment myself! What is the purpose of games like this that end in less than 10 minutes? Burn flags and camos faster? Are the money I spend on that game "not enough"?

 

 

I saw some ppl talking that more skilled players will help solve the issue. You are assuming that people WANT to learn. Different people play for different reasons. I like to learn, but the majority of people in the world DO NOT. Most people are happy to stagnate at some level of existence where they are comfortable. This translates in games even more because it is a hobby.

 

To propose something so i do not sound like someone that just rants. The solution is some form of ladder/personal rating system where we are matched with similar skilled players. And it should not be Random Game. Call it something else and make it a separate game mode (that way you keep the current one as well for the moments when you feel sadistic/masochistic). Frankly, the games i enjoyed the most were the Ranked sprint. Simply because the players take it a bit more serious, but NOT too serious.

[gabberworld]

On 7/6/2020 at 3:07 PM, ColonelPete said:

• other games do not have teams of 12 players

 

lol. to you even know why there is 24 players max in one match? what invented at before 2002  year, before this game actually exist.

it's because off internet connection speed, server data flow will be so huge between users and servers when there is more than 24 players. servers just may not handle that.

 

 

[tsounts]

Met 3ple Georgia div yesterday, the 2 of the players had around 30 matches each in randoms... You know the outcome, however, WG seems happy since new players spend ridiculous amounts of money for overpriced ships/bundles while existing playerbase has to suffer from them.  There should at least be a restriction for inexperienced players of either not buying premium ships until a certain level has been reached/tier or not allow them in randoms.

[gabberworld]

32 minutes ago, tsounts said:

Met 3ple Georgia div yesterday, the 2 of the players had around 30 matches each in randoms... You know the outcome, however, WG seems happy since new players spend ridiculous amounts of money for overpriced ships/bundles while existing playerbase has to suffer from them.  There should at least be a restriction for inexperienced players of either not buying premium ships until a certain level has been reached/tier or not allow them in randoms.

WG not care, if they cared, they would have already made changes. with 30 matches you lucky if beginner understand where is shooting button, but for tactical play, player needs play allot more battles.

[tsounts]

1 hour ago, gabberworld said:

WG not care, if they cared, they would have already made changes. with 30 matches you lucky if beginner understand where is shooting button, but for tactical play, player needs play allot more battles.

Yep, that's why I'm saying WG should at least implement some filters and not allow such players in randoms.  For the last couple of days MM feels rather rigged throwing sub 45% winrate and afk players on my side no matter what...

[Besserwisser3000]

On 7/7/2020 at 7:27 AM, Excavatus said:

Show me any other online game with NO RESPAWN mechanic, and divided into 10 tiers and hundreds of different ships? 

That is the point you (not you in personal but people asking SBMM in general) refuse to see.. 

You cannot implement SBMM in this match system... 

Someone tried with another tank game, They've lost players faster than shooting stars.. They've tried to revert it into random.. but it was too late for them. 

They've come out the idea "WE HAVE THE SBMM YOU'VE BEEN ASKING FOR YEARS" people ran there.. 

then ran back.. 

 

Let me give you an example.. 

What are you gonna use as indicator.. like many people suggested.. WR? 

 

Here, my general WR: 

 

but here my WR for Helena : 

 

and my moskva : 

 

My Iowa : 

 

My Harugumo: 

 

M kremlin : 

 

My Musashi: 

 

And My bismarck : 

 

So where this MM supposed to put me in? 

 

you may suggest, the MM shoud look into not only global WR but also into Tier WR, Ship WR, Class WR.. 

Can't you see how long it would for MM to put together a match, especially at certain hours.. 

 

But regardless of these above.. 

I want to stress it out again.. 

you cannot put SBMM into a game without a respawn mechanic.. 

SBMM is founded on the idea of creating equal and fair teams.. 

The teams will be equal and fair, until you lose one ship... then equal and fair flies out the window.. 

poof.. gone.. SBMM will strengthen the snowball effect.. 

Are you for real? Show me another online game? How about YOUR devs figure that out? What are they paid for? [edited]?

 

I had three games today: All complete roflstomps, all losses. Oh, how fun it is to have 3 [edited] as DDs while being bottom tier as an Odin. How fun is it to have a 800 PR [edited] Monarch spam you with HE and burn down your pathetic 52k hp so fast you can`t even use your heals? Thank you very much, I can see that you value my investment of 8k doubloons and that you value me as a customer.

On the other hand, no. I will never spend on this [edited] game ever again. And I am currently in contact with my bank to discuss chargeback due to fraud and false advertisement. Your company deserves this for Odin alone.

 

And yes, you are representative of WG. I don`t care what your official job title is. Customer service - upon my complaint - redirected me to this forum. And you are a mod on this forum. Do the math. For me, as a customer, it doesn`t matter if WG pays you or not.

You even banned my second account (after temp banning this acc). How are you not with them?

 

 

You guys at WG are [edited] and deserve to go bankrupt.

 

 

[ColonelPete]

7 hours ago, gabberworld said:

 

lol. to you even know why there is 24 players max in one match? what invented at before 2002  year, before this game actually exist.

it's because off internet connection speed, server data flow will be so huge between users and servers when there is more than 24 players. servers just may not handle that.

What has this to do with the topic? Other games have harsher limitations? And yes, there are games with MUCH more players per match....

3 hours ago, Besserwisser3000 said:

You guys at WG are [edited] and deserve to go bankrupt.

And they make money every year...

[Besserwisser3000]

Vor 16 Minuten, ColonelPete sagte:

And they make money every year...

What you get is not always what you deserve.

[gabberworld]

14 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

What has this to do with the topic? Other games have harsher limitations? And yes, there are games with MUCH more players per match....

 

other games do not have teams of 12 players , America's Army is one off those 12 vs 12 team games and i'm  guessing there even more ,  Wows is not really only game who have that. soo stop salute WG like they some-sort gods

[ColonelPete]

7 minutes ago, Besserwisser3000 said:

What you get is not always what you deserve.

That is subjective. Earning money is a fact.

5 minutes ago, gabberworld said:

other games do not have teams of 12 players , America's Army is one off those 12 vs 12 team games and i'm  guessing there even more ,  Wows is not really only game who have that. soo stop salute WG like they some-sort gods

But they lack 10 Tiers...

It is your problem when you do not want to understand how stuff works and that you do not even understand what explaining is.

[Allied_Winter]

One post had to be edited. When you're disagreeing with either WG or one another, do so without using insults.

[Sir_Grzegorz]

Can someone explain to me one thing.

 

Why you play this game if you believe it is rigged AGAINST you?