Matchmaker Discussion Thread & MM Balance

[DFens_666]

47 minutes ago, Floofz said:

The problem itself is that the matchmaker for whatever reason seem to put most of the good players in the same team.

 

Doesnt feel like that to me actually? I can hardly blame the game for roflstomps, if i go in with a 3man div

[snddim01]

2 minutes ago, Floofz said:

 

The problem is with the matchmaker, on a player skill level. The problem itself is that the matchmaker for whatever reason seem to put most of the good players in the same team. That is what causes the roflstomps, nothing else.

You know this is very easy to prove. Just run a WR mod when you end up in a roflstomp, look at the difference in overall WR between both teams.

 

The problem with that reasoning is that a single game proves nothing. Or even a dozen games. 

 

I've been monitoring my matchmaking for around 2,000 games now since going on what felt like endless losing streaks. As a result I'm certain the matchmaker isn't  imbalanced.  There are streaks where I' m always on the lucky - or unlucky - team. These tend to be a maximum of 4 or 5 consecutive games.  I've gone on winning or losing streaks for much longer (usually losing) but they tend to be because the best player on the good team does something stupid and dies early. Or the potatoes on the bad team suddenly have the game of their lives and make a difference. Or my DDs run away from a flank and refuse to spot, or we have camping BBs on the 10 line, etc, etc. 

 

If you monitor your teammates over a thousand games you'll find that matchmaking tends to balance out. Unless you're a really good or bad player, in which case your own stats make a difference to team lineups. I'm usually average so have little impact either way. 

 

Which doesn't make it any less annoying when you get incessantly placed in abysmal teams though. I'm trying to use the current 100% daily exp bonus to get my stock Iowa upgraded. I only want to play and win one match a day. So in the last three days (if I were lucky with teams) I should only have played three matches.  Instead I've played 13. And have a 23.08% win rate with the ship. 

 

But the stats on my current grind - Seattle - more than make up for it. I seem to be excellent on that ship and win far more than I lose. And I'm usually always on the stronger team, simply because my presence makes it better. 

 

Whereas on Drake, which I sucked at, well let's not go there. My results were terrible and that was mirrored in the matchmaking. I dragged my teams down just by being a part of them. 

 

I'm certain that matchmaking is fair and balanced and that anyone can prove it if they review their own teams over a long enough period. 

[Captaindanz]

[deathsadow]

9 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Doesnt feel like that to me actually? I can hardly blame the game for roflstomps, if i go in with a 3man div

 

3 man div is the main source of steamrolls, but WoWs is far from popular enough to make solo queue and division queue for it ... so i guess solo players like me are doomed to get 1 sided games due to 3 man divs.

[ColonelPete]

4 minutes ago, deathsadow said:

 

3 man div is the main source of steamrolls, but WoWs is far from popular enough to make solo queue and division queue for it ... so i guess solo players like me are doomed to get 1 sided games due to 3 man divs.

You are in a clan. Your are not forced to play solo.

[DFens_666]

15 minutes ago, deathsadow said:

 

3 man div is the main source of steamrolls, but WoWs is far from popular enough to make solo queue and division queue for it ... so i guess solo players like me are doomed to get 1 sided games due to 3 man divs.

 

Id like to add, thats often the abysmal <40% WR players 3x divs which cause the roflstomps. 3 BBs running to the mapborder? 3 DDs suiciding in the first minutes? Its basicly a guaranteed loss.

[ForlornSailor]

30 minutes ago, deathsadow said:

3 man div is the main source of steamrolls, but WoWs is far from popular enough to make solo queue and division queue for it ... so i guess solo players like me are doomed to get 1 sided games due to 3 man divs.

 

Oh what a convenient excuse. Its the good old "im just one player, I dont have any impact on the game" just in a new suit.

Fun fact: I play almost excusivly 3-man-divisions. And very good divisions, if I may be so bold. According to you, I should only see roflstomps for my side. That aint the case. If however I see a roflstomp - for or against me - it starts by a high number of really bad players on one side. A Kurfürst dead in 4 mins, all 3 DDs dead in 4 mins or alike. So yea actually bad players are the source of roflstomps. If we wouldnt have so many absolutly useless players in this game, the ones, that have a survivability of less then 5% and avg damage of less then 10k, then we wouldnt have a roflstomp problem.

[Darkeid]

That is a good observation. Maybe the MM engine should distribute bad players equally

[HMS_Cooper]

There most be a way to make MM more faier, like it dont happend once that like the battle i just come from where 1 was over 50% WR rest below 50% and opposite have one ship lower then 50% (44%) rest between 54-65% WR where is the fun in battle where one team just roll over the other win or lose it just suck..

[ForlornSailor]

29 minutes ago, Darkeid said:

That is a good observation. Maybe the MM engine should distribute bad players equally

 

Why tho? I asked this so often and I dont get a good answer?

So you want the matchmaker to take into concideration the winrate of people or stats in general. So a good player needs to be balanced by putting bad players on this team. constantly. I disagree. I dont want to carry a sack constantly just because reason. Good players are good for a reason. They deserve to win without having stones artifically thrown in their way. You know how to balance them? make the average pleb better. Learn to play. Thats the way to go. Not artifically make bad players feel good by having them carried constantly by better players. Thats what all that skill-based-balance-mm ultimatly is all about.

[Darkeid]

Well i think at least something has to be done with the MM, the unequal ? unfair matchups are happening a lot more recently 

[HMS_Cooper]

Just now, ForlornSailor said:

 

Why tho? I asked this so often and I dont get a good answer?

So you want the matchmaker to take into concideration the winrate of people or stats in general. So a good player needs to be balanced by putting bad players on this team. constantly. I disagree. I dont want to carry a sack constantly just because reason. Good players are good for a reason. They deserve to win without having stones artifically thrown in their way. You know how to balance them? make the average pleb better. Learn to play. Thats the way to go. Not artifically make bad players feel good by having them carried constantly by better players. Thats what all that skill-based-balance-mm ultimatly is all about.

i did not say i have the solution, just that howe it is now is not faier i have ides howe to improve MM but no point take it up when it never going to happend, with all the free ship in tier 8 WG have passed out and prem ship that can be bought even if you not played one single battle, so it proberley is something we have to live with or find another game to play.

[HMS_Cooper]

15 minutes ago, Darkeid said:

Well i think at least something has to be done with the MM, the unequal ? unfair matchups are happening a lot more recently 

personaly i think the MM could be much better if you make random battle kind of like the CB where you can lose your place in a league if you not are up to the standard and reach higher league if you deserve it. With let say 4-6 league, that way you should meet player in more faier MM and battle should be a lot more fun if it is up to your skill.

[DFens_666]

2 minutes ago, HMS_Cooper said:

personaly i think the MM could be much better if you make random battle kind of like the CB where you can lose your place in a league if you not are up to the standard and reach higher league if you deserve it. With let say 4-6 league, that way you should meet player in more faier MM and battle should be a lot more fun if it is up to your skill.

 

There are also too many issues with that, like divisions, and foremost, how do you distribute players among those leagues? (WR doesnt work, f.e. if everyone has 60% WR, noone can sustain it).

Then divisions: What happens if i would want to division with someone from a lower league? Doesnt work at all? Or do we get to play in the higher league, which makes little sense for the lower rank person. Playing in the lower league ofc makes even less sense, as you could then trick the MM into easier MM.

 

So... many people bring ideas which sound good in theory, but they have no practcal use in this game.

29 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

You know how to balance them? make the average pleb better

This is the best way to balance teams. As long as you have people do stuff, which can only be described as sabotaging their own team or outright not playing the game, most players will have a bad experience.

 

Why should people, who drive their BB into the last corner get to have better WR? They should have a LOWER WR than they have now so they would actually learn something. Maybe losing teams just need to get punished entirely: Not anything, no credits and no XP, so this dumb failing to TX stops. And then buff XP/Credits on the winning team for the top players. People dont need to be cuddled, that will get us nowhere.

[HMS_Cooper]

39 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

There are also too many issues with that, like divisions, and foremost, how do you distribute players among those leagues? (WR doesnt work, f.e. if everyone has 60% WR, noone can sustain it).

Then divisions: What happens if i would want to division with someone from a lower league? Doesnt work at all? Or do we get to play in the higher league, which makes little sense for the lower rank person. Playing in the lower league ofc makes even less sense, as you could then trick the MM into easier MM.

 

So... many people bring ideas which sound good in theory, but they have no practcal use in this game.

This is the best way to balance teams. As long as you have people do stuff, which can only be described as sabotaging their own team or outright not playing the game, most players will have a bad experience.

 

Why should people, who drive their BB into the last corner get to have better WR? They should have a LOWER WR than they have now so they would actually learn something. Maybe losing teams just need to get punished entirely: Not anything, no credits and no XP, so this dumb failing to TX stops. And then buff XP/Credits on the winning team for the top players. People dont need to be cuddled, that will get us nowhere.

you have seperate battle for sub, so keep the MM as it is now for divisions, but make a league system for solo play and those who would like a more faier MM and a bit more competition oriented, based on what you perform in battle, if you have player/ship that just roll on other they will soon sort them self out and lose there place any way and drop down 

[159Hunter]

1 hour ago, Darkeid said:

Well i think at least something has to be done with the MM, the unequal ? unfair matchups are happening a lot more recently 

It's not mm. It's just playerbase's skill that's in freefall. Even 3 man divs can fail to carry some teams. Just because players are terrible and continu to get worse.

[AkulaTSR]

27 minutes ago, 159Hunter said:

It's not mm. It's just playerbase's skill that's in freefall. Even 3 man divs can fail to carry some teams. Just because players are terrible and continu to get worse.

 

Just because there is 3 players in a division , does not mean they are good.

 

Had a three man div friday night , one was a CV and helped his clan div , and ignored the rest of us needing help to spot etc. Needless to say we lost the battle.

 

 

[AkulaTSR]

2 hours ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

Why tho? I asked this so often and I dont get a good answer?

So you want the matchmaker to take into concideration the winrate of people or stats in general. So a good player needs to be balanced by putting bad players on this team. constantly. I disagree. I dont want to carry a sack constantly just because reason. Good players are good for a reason. They deserve to win without having stones artifically thrown in their way. You know how to balance them? make the average pleb better. Learn to play. Thats the way to go. Not artifically make bad players feel good by having them carried constantly by better players. Thats what all that skill-based-balance-mm ultimatly is all about.

 

This is utter nonsense . If you have 20 good players and 4 bad players , logic deems the battle should be 10 good and 2 bad each team , but by your rationale , the only way `the plebs` (as you call them) will get better is by playing against better players and learning to play.

 

So if you had your way it would be 12 good players versus 12 bad player , because in your words , the good players deserve to win , just because they are good. That my friend is absolute shite of the highest order.

[ForlornSailor]

47 minutes ago, AkulaTSR said:

So if you had your way it would be 12 good players versus 12 bad player , because in your words , the good players deserve to win , just because they are good. That my friend is absolute shite of the highest order. 

 

Reading --> Comprehending

 

Thats the way how to process information in a forum. Somewhere along the path you dropped off, when processing my post. Tell us exactly where my friend and maybe we can help you out.

 

 

[ForlornSailor]

ah ok I guess you deliberatly put words in my mouth to start some kind of smear-campaign. Thats why you do this instead of reply to my request.

 

[DFens_666]

57 minutes ago, AkulaTSR said:

So if you had your way it would be 12 good players versus 12 bad player , because in your words , the good players deserve to win , just because they are good. That my friend is absolute shite of the highest order.

 

Noone said, good player should win every game. There is a difference. Not to mention, good players win like 6-7 out of 10, while people who are basicly AFK still win 4~ out of 10... that already doesnt sound fair to me, because i have to invest so much more to win 3~ games more than someone who basicly doesnt do anything.

[Besserwisser3000]

What do I need to do to win, WG? Can you tell me? Because your MM is such a goddamn garbage that your devs should be ashamed.

 

If I play my GK: Every game I get useless clown tier DDs that are too dumb to tie their own shoes.

 

Then I log onto my Ägir. What happens? Clown BB everywhere. Every single game uptiered. Georgias everywhere while my BBs sail at the map border. Blowout after blowout.

 

Log onto my DD: Oh right, enemy team has more radar AND radar DDs. Also, thanks for your [OP premium ships like Georgia, Benham, Smolensk.

 

Do you want me to chargeback? I`m close to it, you clowns.

 

Screen: my average game today. It ended with 2 dead enemies.

[ColonelPete]

7 minutes ago, Besserwisser3000 said:

What do I need to do to win, WG?

But you won more than once today...

[DFens_666]

35 minutes ago, Besserwisser3000 said:

What do I need to do to win, WG?

 

If you arent happy with 60% Solo WR, i guess you need to play in 3x divisions...

[HMS_Cooper]

Why not just tgive us a battle type "solo random" no problem make that to league based, pretty sure many would like that play agains other in same skill level and possible improve own game play and gain a higher leauge or drop down a league if you are not up for the standard in that league..as it is now in high tier battle and just see how player yolo to death battle after battle, so many battle where just after 5-6 min one team is down to 2-4 ship, just get you closer and closer to just turn the back to the game and leave it for ever..