The KV-2 of WoWs

[DrMechano]

Out of curiosity, which ship would you say was the KV-2 of WoWs. Now for those that don't play our sister game the KV-2 is a 152mm howitzer (aka a 'Derp gun') equipped tank at tier 6. Now whilst its armour is pretty crap (big old box turret) its mobility is...meh...the one thing the KV-2 doesn't care about, is being uptiered. Since it normally fires High Explosive AND hits fairly hard anyway it really doesn't care too much about armour. Sure you might only do 300 damage when the shot could do 700 if it fully penetrated BUT that's 300 damage against an opponent most tier 6 tanks would be lucky to even damage in the first place. Not only that HE, much like in this game, knocks out crew, modules, guns, all that good stuff.

 

So which ship would you say is a midtier (5 or 6) ship that simply doesn't care if it's bottom tier and can school even higher tiered opponents?

[El2aZeR]

Giulio Cesare. 

[wilkatis_LV]

3 minutes ago, DrMechano said:

the one thing the KV-2 doesn't care about, is being uptiered.

Whole bunch of mostly tier 5 premiums that are removed from sale

 

3 minutes ago, DrMechano said:

Since it normally fires High Explosive

HE works quite differently between WoT and WoWS afaik

 

Especially the doing damage part of it

[DrMechano]

No...bad...ok...Tech tree only ship then! *smacks El2aZeR with a rolled up newspaper*

1 minute ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Whole bunch of mostly tier 5 premiums that are removed from sale

 

HE works quite differently between WoT and WoWS afaik

 

Especially the doing damage part of it

Yes I know that HE works differently between the two but the idea still stands. The KV-2 is a tier 6 Tech Tree Tank that can actually put up a decent fight against tier 8s and I'm curious what people would think would be the equivalent in WoWs.

 

My personal suggestion would be the Arizona or the Queen Liz. both are slow, their armour doesn't hold up too great at top tier and while it can't just smack around the tier 8s the Arizona is pretty damn accurate for a Shotgun BB allowing it to surprise blap cruisers and while the Queen Liz turret traverse is just awful, the accuracy on the 380mm means it can deal with tier 7s pretty nicely.

[Tyrendian89]

9 minutes ago, DrMechano said:

So which ship would you say is a midtier (5 or 6) ship that simply doesn't care if it's bottom tier and can school even higher tiered opponents?

Kamikaze sisters. Because those things are balans'd.

Require someone with a brain at the helm to not get eaten by gunboats (or Belfasts), but that's about it for threats unless you reeeeeally mess up. And you already suck in a gunfight against same tier gunboats, so going against T7 gunboats doesnt really make that much of a difference (T7s tend to be less stealthy, actually, so you even have more room to avoid them)...

 

Alternatively, as an outside pick, maybe Warspite? The armour sucks pretty much no matter what you're getting shot by, and your accurate 15" battery nukes cruisers no matter what tier they are if you know how to aim.

 

€dit:

1 minute ago, DrMechano said:

No...bad...ok...Tech tree only ship then! *smacks El2aZeR with a rolled up newspaper*

hey, not fair! The KV-2 I've got is actually a premium, the Warhammer 40k skin

[wilkatis_LV]

Just now, DrMechano said:

Tech tree only ship then!

Tech tree ships that don't care for MM?

Cruisers as they can get equally wrecked while being top, mid or bottom tier

 

I wouldn't say that there are any specific outliers. There are ships that are pretty good at their role, but pretty miserable if you try something else with them... Not exactly a case of "div this into t10 bcuz lol"

[HaachamaShipping]

Gneisenau. The armour holds up against T9s still, torps hurt ships whatever they hit.

[hgbn_dk]

Pensacola for the AP blap effect

[wilkatis_LV]

5 minutes ago, hgbn_dk said:

Pensacola for the AP blap effect

I think Pepsi herself getting blapped by any AP fired at her doesn't count

[Bear__Necessities]

26 minutes ago, DrMechano said:

Out of curiosity, which ship would you say was the KV-2 of WoWs. Now for those that don't play our sister game the KV-2 is a 152mm howitzer (aka a 'Derp gun') equipped tank at tier 6. Now whilst its armour is pretty crap (big old box turret) its mobility is...meh...the one thing the KV-2 doesn't care about, is being uptiered. Since it normally fires High Explosive AND hits fairly hard anyway it really doesn't care too much about armour. Sure you might only do 300 damage when the shot could do 700 if it fully penetrated BUT that's 300 damage against an opponent most tier 6 tanks would be lucky to even damage in the first place. Not only that HE, much like in this game, knocks out crew, modules, guns, all that good stuff.

 

So which ship would you say is a midtier (5 or 6) ship that simply doesn't care if it's bottom tier and can school even higher tiered opponents?

FIJI 

FIJI

FIJI

Fiji doesn’t care if it’s bottom tier. Fiji fears nothing.

[MRGTB]

I was going to say the Fiji also. I have the ship and bought the perma-camo for it, the ship is a keeper with perma camo. Very good cruiser for its tier 7 level and can handle being up-tiered pretty well.

 

I was also going to say the Nelson. While it doesn't have great armour. It does have good guns and super heal, so can play T9 level, seeing as most ships are T8 in it anyway. And Nelson is probably the best BB at T7 anyhow.

[El2aZeR]

1 hour ago, DrMechano said:

*smacks El2aZeR with a rolled up newspaper*

 

 

Clemson then. 

 

On a more serious note, Kongo ain't all that bad.

[rnat]

For tech tree ships (only T5+6) I'd say Budyonny, with CE and IFHE.

There are some other ships for which not much changed, but since you want schooling potential,take the Budyonny.

It just burns everything when played to it's strenghts.

[ColonelPete]

Premium: West Virginia, these guns blap anything in that MM

Silver: Queen E, Nagato

[GulvkluderGuld]

DDs: Fushun

CL:  Fiji

BBs: Fuso? KGV? All of the silver ones hate being bottom tier.

[Culiacan_Mexico]

3 hours ago, DrMechano said:

the KV-2 doesn't care about, is being uptiered.

 

The closes ship I can think of is the tier V British cruiser Emerald, as it sucks regardless of tier match up.

 

Win rate - 46.40

Damage - 16406

Kills - 0.52

 

 

 

[eliastion]

4 hours ago, DrMechano said:

Out of curiosity, which ship would you say was the KV-2 of WoWs. Now for those that don't play our sister game the KV-2 is a 152mm howitzer (aka a 'Derp gun') equipped tank at tier 6. Now whilst its armour is pretty crap (big old box turret) its mobility is...meh...the one thing the KV-2 doesn't care about, is being uptiered. Since it normally fires High Explosive AND hits fairly hard anyway it really doesn't care too much about armour. Sure you might only do 300 damage when the shot could do 700 if it fully penetrated BUT that's 300 damage against an opponent most tier 6 tanks would be lucky to even damage in the first place. Not only that HE, much like in this game, knocks out crew, modules, guns, all that good stuff.

 

So which ship would you say is a midtier (5 or 6) ship that simply doesn't care if it's bottom tier and can school even higher tiered opponents?

This might sound strange but, based on your criteria, I'd be looking at DDs. And if I were looking at DDs, I'd pick t5 Kamikaze R (or the less common equivalent - in any case it's a premium). We're talking a ship that

 - has fast torps on short reload that go boom. Torps hit hard no matter how big a guy you are.

 - relies on stealth for survival, so falling behind in hp when compared to higher tier ship matters little.

 - is pretty crap at knife fights even against most same tier opponents.

If t7 players weren't (slightly) less likely to sail in straight lines for prolonged periods of time than t5 players, Kamikaze wouldn't really see very much difference between facing them and a t5 team.

 

That being said, WoWs is a very different game compared to WoT. The problem of "he's two tiers above me, I can't really hurt him" doesn't exist here with the possible exception of CVs meeting higher tier ships with good AA. All the "normal" ships are perfectly capable of inflicting a lot of damage on higher tier enemies - they might handle worse, have less hp, have lower firepower etc. but all that merely means that they deal less damage and can take less damage than higher tier equivalents. But they still do that damage. And, in fact, they usually don't even deal less damage to higher tier enemies: it's less % damage because they have more hp but the improvements in armor are quite subtle and usually don't mitigate the damage from -2t enemies all that much. Looking at things this way... you could say that basically every single ship in WoWs is just as resistant to uptiering as KV2 -if not more.

 

This is one of the reasons why I personally consider WoWs a superior game. The option of +2 MM in Tanks is just a bad thing, especially for tanks focused on armor, because a +2t tank with good armor is almost invulnerable to lower tier enemies. A bottom tier tank with good armor is f*cked because guns of the tanks two tiers above him punch right through that "good armor" anyway. Oh, and then there's the golden ammo By comparison, in WoWs we don't have gold ammo but we don't need it. When bottom tier, you're at a disadvantage against higher tier enemies, but you are still a threat to them. And the class differences are often more important than tier differences. A t6 BB can "easily" delete a t8 cruiser if the latter shows broadside. A t6 DD can torp the sh*t out of a t8 BB. And no sane t8 DD player will try a gun duel with a t6 cruiser. Unless the DD in question is Akizuki, but that one pays for it by having bad handling, bad speed and torpedo armament that can be called "supplementary" to her guns - if you want to be really kind. Anyway, the point is, the strong points of a ship usually remain reasonably strong even when bottom tier and weaknesses don't get nullified even when facing only lower tier enemies.

[MoveZig]

It's Nelson.

 

- Mediocre mobility even by BB standards

- Huge profile

- Very poor armor scheme for its type

- Can easily just stick to HE and do a lot of damage to everything, including their modules

 

Though with that turret arrangement, I compare it more to a huge, sluggish TD with flat armor that isn't nearly as tough as it looks. Pretty sure I remember a couple like that from WoT, Brits especially.

[BlackYeti]

KGV as silver ships go. When uptiered you can just stick to HE and set the world on fire. Just avoid IFHE cruisers 😉

[Flavio1997]

I would say fiji, as it doesn't care about being uptier. 

Also the lyon ( tier 7 french bbs) with ap. Usually you do unremarkable damage against higher tiers, until they get too close and show too much broadside, at that point they get deleted.

 

 

[250swb]

I don't buy the idea that 'heavy tank' equals 'battleship'  because while the OP sings the praises of the KV-2 he fails to stress enough its downsides, three big ones in fact, the left, right, and rear of the turret, and up-tiered the entire hull is a downside. True it can splat other tanks, but it's only truly strong in it's own tier, good match, and played carefully, it's not a typical heavy tank that can absorb many shots and most die early in WoT Random battle.

 

So good guns, tactical, fragile if flanked, a constant eye on survival, always an eye on opportunity, I'd say the Budyonny or Emile Bertin. Both can grief higher tiered opponents with HE, either can put either a smile on your face, or a frown, just like a KV-2.

[NothingButTheRain]

I'd say Asashio would come close, as its torps hurt no matter what tier BB it hits.

Ships in which I don't really care about tier also include ships like Charles Martel (the tier 9 one was not as good I think) and benson. I haven't played CM in a while tho.

I'd say ships with better conceilment will generally speaking mind being uptiered less.

[NothingButTheRain]

4 minutes ago, 250swb said:

I don't buy the idea that 'heavy tank' equals 'battleship'  because while the OP sings the praises of the KV-2 he fails to stress enough its downsides, three big ones in fact, the left, right, and rear of the turret, and up-tiered the entire hull is a downside. True it can splat other tanks, but it's only truly strong in it's own tier, good match, and played carefully, it's not a typical heavy tank that can absorb many shots and most die early in WoT Random battle.

 

So good guns, tactical, fragile if flanked, a constant eye on survival, always an eye on opportunity, I'd say the Budyonny or Emile Bertin. Both can grief higher tiered opponents with HE, either can put either a smile on your face, or a frown, just like a KV-2.

KV-2 never has really good armor no matter what tier it ends up in. BBs are generally speaking different in this regard.

 

The thing is that there is not really sucha  thing as a derp in wows, except maybe for torps.

[Exocet6951]

Mid tier, slow, fires slowly, can potentially obliterate other ships in a single shot, looks like a refrigerator slapped on top of a box ?
Sounds like a Fuso to me.

Bonus points for being like the KV-2 in the sense that it's at the same time the least accurate and the most accurate ship in the world.

[Uglesett]

Musashi 

 

Jokes aside, if we're talking stupidly powerful guns for its tier, then I'd go with one of the 15 or 16" armed BBs at T6, like the QE, Warspite or WV. I guess Mutsu might qualify as well.

 

As for sheer derp, in terms of lots of damage potential but also lots of randomness, I'd like to present the Lyon as a contender.