Comparing Midway to Hakuryu stats-wise

[anonym_RGvUdEcxWWvD]

Edit: Since many cry and question why I didnt include the EU server, I have now included that as well. I also want to note that these stats are focused before the 8.0.3 patch. Yes, the numbers will be even lower heading into next week.

 

 

I have this feeling that most of you are still stuck on wow-numbers which potrays false information. I will give you a weekly update, the one that doesnt include previous data.

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/index.html

 

Lets look at the following stats: Playrate, winrate, dmg, ships destroyed

 

Asia

 

- Hakuryu

Battles: 6995

Winrate: 46.26

Dmg: 74699

Ships destroyed: 0.84

 

- Miday

Battles: 15250

Winrate: 51.35

Dmg: 96993

Ships destroyed: 1.10

 

I'm suprised to see that Haku is far less popular in this region, other than that nothing suprised me really.

 

NA

 

- Hakuryu

Battles: 3728

Winrate: 47.54

Dmg: 62567

Ships destroyed: 0.71

 

- Midway

Battles: 13690

Winrate: 50.54

Dmg: 84275

Ships destroyed: 0.98

 

EU

 

-Hakuryu

Battles: 6976

Winrate: 48.59

Dmg: 70304

Ships destroyed: 0.80

 

-Midway

Battles: 17968

Winrate: 51.15

Dmg: 88107

Ships destroyed: 0.99

 

Compared to last week, the Hakuryu is sinking pretty fast in stats. How long before WG finaly pulls the trigger and does something about it? Just look at the playrate, its no wonder I only see Midways around.

I'm not saying here that Midway is OP, just that Haku is absolute trash at the moment.

 

 

 

 

 

[Flavio1997]

trust me, if we would take the stats only form 8.0.3, probably both cvs will struggle to get 60k avg damage 

[wilkatis_LV]

EU Forums, geographically Russia is the closest non-EU server to us

 

Posts Asia and NA statistics

 

What exactly is your point?

[anonym_RGvUdEcxWWvD]

1 hour ago, Flavio1997 said:

trust me, if we would take the stats only form 8.0.3, probably both cvs will struggle to get 60k avg damage 

Why is that? Dont tell me they nerfed Midway instead of just buffing Haku? I didnt know we had a 8.0.3 coming, but seeing your reaction its probably not worth my time. My stats that I show are actualy pretty screwed because of people who keep their profiles hidden. These people are most likely to have atrocious stats and theyr not taken into account which potrays the stats way higher than they actualy are.

1 hour ago, wilkatis_LV said:

EU Forums, geographically Russia is the closest non-EU server to us

 

Posts Asia and NA statistics

 

What exactly is your point?

Well my point is that Haku is trash like I mentioned in my OP. Unless Asia and NA play on a different patch you make a valid point here. I honestly dont really know.

[CptMinia]

CV rework still has some way to go, I'd argue the easy part is done and the new gameplay of the CVs is now pretty much done. The hard part is going to be tweaking all the numbers to try and balance every single class and ship to work well with the new gameplay mechanics. We knew that this process could not be refined in the public tests, that was a given and therefore the tweaking would have to occur on the live clients. WoWS is going through changes and a bit of a rough time however the more data WG have the more refined the balance can be. Give it enough time and we will have some nice gameplay, I was not a fan of the RTS style CVs.

 

[AirSupremacy]

I only play the Haku 1% of my game time, 99% the Midway.

IMHO Torps are no more fun with the Haku, AP bombs are good, rockets are ok.

The Haku has no fun factor with me, sadly :(

[Panocek]

1 minute ago, CptMinia said:

CV rework still has some way to go, I'd argue the easy part is done and the new gameplay of the CVs is now pretty much done. The hard part is going to be tweaking all the numbers to try and balance every single class and ship to work well with the new gameplay mechanics. We knew that this process could not be refined in the public tests, that was a given and therefore the tweaking would have to occur on the live clients. WoWS is going through changes and a bit of a rough time however the more data WG have the more refined the balance can be. Give it enough time and we will have some nice gameplay, I was not a fan of the RTS style CVs.

 

As in about three months it would be 8th anniversary of mine "interaction" with Wargaming in general, I can't help but admire your optimism about CVs getting balanced. Balanced in actually fun to play manner instead numbers matching in excel

[ForlornSailor]

2 hours ago, Zlaraki said:

Lets look at the following stats:

 

Asia & NA

 

[CptMinia]

11 minutes ago, Panocek said:

As in about three months it would be 8th anniversary of mine "interaction" with Wargaming in general, I can't help but admire your optimism about CVs getting balanced. Balanced in actually fun to play manner instead numbers matching in excel

CVs weren't fun before, so I will embrace any change that is better and so far I feel the change is better. I'm not saying it's perfect, it definitely is not. But before throwing it in the trash we have to see its potential and were it could be and I think for now it still holds promise.

[El2aZeR]

Clearly nobody could've predicted Haku stats tanking after her only truly viable weapon gets nerfed into the abyss.

Better nerf Midway to compensate. 

 

Glorious supreme balans is fueled by 100% pure vodka logic comrade!

[eliastion]

2 hours ago, Zlaraki said:

I have this feeling that most of you are still stuck on wow-numbers which potrays false information. I will give you a weekly update, the one that doesnt include previous data.

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/index.html

Pretty much nobody is looking at WoWs numbers after the hotfix 0.8.0.1 when it comes to comparing the CVs.

 

As for MS, when you're saying "weekly update, the one that doesn't include previous data", it would be a good idea to explicitly mention the day of MS dump you're getting the data from (since it's not updated daily but in week-long chunks, if I'm not mistaken - so regardless of the date of your post, it would be a good idea to get the MS timestamp). Other than that, good job, MS isn't exactly user friendly so going there for data is a pain in the butt...

 

2 hours ago, Zlaraki said:

Asia

 

- Hakuryu

Battles: 6995

Winrate: 46.26

Dmg: 74699

Ships destroyed: 0.84

 

- Miday

Battles: 15250

Winrate: 51.35

Dmg: 96993

Ships destroyed: 1.10

 

I'm suprised to see that Haku is far less popular in this region, other than that nothing suprised me really.

The winrate might tell you the reason. Haku was severely nerfed, the 4-torp set-up became unplayable, 2-torp setup was harder to use than Midway's torps (and Midway's torps handle like carp - they're slippery and don't go where you want them), Haku's rockets were always inferior (although slightly easier to use, but both were comfortable enough until 0.8.0.3) and Haku's dive bombers might have slightly higher alpha potential but are harder to use and completely useless against DDs (that might not be super easy to hit for Midway but when you do land a bomb, damage is substantial) + they don't break AA so they don't make subsequent attacks on your chosen target less punishing.

Put simply: Midway was (post 8.0.1) a superior CV, so it's no wonder that it was played much more on all the servers, including Asia.

 

3 hours ago, Flavio1997 said:

trust me, if we would take the stats only form 8.0.3, probably both cvs will struggle to get 60k avg damage 

I think you're exaggerating heavily. CVs' average damage numbers are probably lower but not that much. I'd guess that what REALLY took a hit since 8.0.3 would be the number of CV battles played. Today I went and played quite a lot of Akizuki. Frankly... pre-rework I'd be thinking "oh, there's quite a lot CVs today" but not to the point of astonishment. I mean, ok, I would be astonished seeing a single match of t6+t8 CVs since pre-rework t8 CVs were on a strict 1/match MM but you get the idea. I'm not sure if the numbers have fallen this low or perhaps I was just this (un)lucky. Although frankly, the matter of "luck" is not very relevant considering that I don't care much if there are CVs in the match when playing Akizuki anymore. It used to be a big thing pre-rework, but now? T6 planes I shred, t8 planes I can defend against, t10 planes... Actually, I don't think I've seen a t10 CV today, so perhaps that would be a bigger threat, dunno - Akizuki is pretty clumsy so she would be relatively easy to hit with HE bombs and - even nerfed - rockets).

[Bear__Necessities]

3 hours ago, Zlaraki said:

I have this feeling that most of you are still stuck on wow-numbers which potrays false information. I will give you a weekly update, the one that doesnt include previous data.

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/index.html

 

Lets look at the following stats: Playrate, winrate, dmg, ships destroyed

 

Asia

 

- Hakuryu

Battles: 6995

Winrate: 46.26

Dmg: 74699

Ships destroyed: 0.84

 

- Miday

Battles: 15250

Winrate: 51.35

Dmg: 96993

Ships destroyed: 1.10

 

I'm suprised to see that Haku is far less popular in this region, other than that nothing suprised me really.

 

NA

 

- Hakuryu

Battles: 3728

Winrate: 47.54

Dmg: 62567

Ships destroyed: 0.71

 

- Midway

Battles: 13690

Winrate: 50.54

Dmg: 84275

Ships destroyed: 0.98

 

Compared to last week, the Hakuryu is sinking pretty fast in stats. How long before WG finaly pulls the trigger and does something about it? Just look at the playrate, its no wonder I only see Midways around.

I'm not saying here that Midway is OP, just that Haku is absolute trash at the moment.

 

 

 

 

 

Right....

 

but it on the EU sever *cough* this one *cough* it’s still a close run thing with the Haku having the better damage numbers and WR...

 

[Flavio1997]

1 hour ago, Zlaraki said:

Why is that? Dont tell me they nerfed Midway instead of just buffing Haku? I didnt know we had a 8.0.3 coming, but seeing your reaction its probably not worth my time. My stats that I show are actualy pretty screwed because of people who keep their profiles hidden. These people are most likely to have atrocious stats and theyr not taken into account which potrays the stats way higher than they actualy are.

Well my point is that Haku is trash like I mentioned in my OP. Unless Asia and NA play on a different patch you make a valid point here. I honestly dont really know.

yeap, nerfed their tbs even more, now they are useless

considering that when people do 100k damage, they consider them great game, worthwile to be loaded on youtube, i would say that the situation is pretty tragic  as of right now

[eliastion]

1 hour ago, Zlaraki said:

Why is that? Dont tell me they nerfed Midway instead of just buffing Haku? I didnt know we had a 8.0.3 coming, but seeing your reaction its probably not worth my time.

All ships got -20% air spotting buff (lots of cruisers have better long AA range than air spotting range so you first see the bullets and only then the ship unless the AA is turned off).

All rocket planes got nerfs to handling and at least Haku's are now basically unable to maneuver once the aiming reticle turns green (not as in "the aiming reticle grows" but rather "the planes go in a straight line and are almost completely incapable of changing direction of their movement"). It sounds worse than it is, but certainly makes using these planes more annoying. I can't say much about Midway rocket plane handling as I don't have the ship.

Midway's torpedo bombers got lower tier torps that have 20% less damage and lower flooding chance.

 

Also, there were changes to fighters - now they are very vulnerable to AA (even though there's more of them to shoot down per consumable charge), have wider patrol range, react faster and ARE faster so that the viable way to run away from them basically means getting over some friendly AA that will shred them for you (I think it's technically possible to outrun them depending on plane type, upgrades and whether you have a full boost + cooling consumable ready). Basically, now ship-borne fighters are actually a threat and dropping plane fighters to protect allied ships actually makes a lot of sense while using them for spotting doesn't work that well (they are easier to destroy, plus there's that concealment buff on everything). Overall these changes might be an improvement considering how warped the role of fighters was previously... but it's most definitely not a change that would make it easier/more comfortable to play CVs and attack surface ships.

[ForlornSailor]

16 minutes ago, Bear_Necessities said:

but it on the EU sever *cough* this one *cough* it’s still a close run thing with the Haku having the better damage numbers and WR...

 

Psst. Dont destroy his nice fairy tale. He needs to push his narrative.

 

Quote

information that is not objective and is used primarily to influence an audience and further an agenda, often by presenting facts selectively to encourage a particular synthesis or perception

 

Now whats the describtion thats missing here? Anyone can guess?

[Flavio1997]

27 minutes ago, eliastion said:

I think you're exaggerating heavily. CVs' average damage numbers are probably lower but not that much. I'd guess that what REALLY took a hit since 8.0.3 would be the number of CV battles played. Today I went and played quite a lot of Akizuki. Frankly... pre-rework I'd be thinking "oh, there's quite a lot CVs today" but not to the point of astonishment. I mean, ok, I would be astonished seeing a single match of t6+t8 CVs since pre-rework t8 CVs were on a strict 1/match MM but you get the idea. I'm not sure if the numbers have fallen this low or perhaps I was just this (un)lucky. Although frankly, the matter of "luck" is not very relevant considering that I don't care much if there are CVs in the match when playing Akizuki anymore. It used to be a big thing pre-rework, but now? T6 planes I shred, t8 planes I can defend against, t10 planes... Actually, I don't think I've seen a t10 CV today, so perhaps that would be a bigger threat, dunno - Akizuki is pretty clumsy so she would be relatively easy to hit with HE bombs and - even nerfed - rockets).

i think i'm not, i'm one of those cvs superunicum ( 2700 pr before the rework, now the stats are tanking) that this rework wanted to tone down. before the 1st hotfix i had 85k avg damage in the reworked ryjuo, higher than my old stats ( 74k), with haku, after the 1st few matches in witch i got the hang out of it, i was around the 180k mark. Then the hotfix started hitting, since the 8.01 i haven't touched the haku, used the ryjuo in 4 random matches and about 10 operations. My stats before the rework were 120k avg damage ( this was realtively low) but very high avg kill and winrate relative to the damage, cause i was one of those cvs bastards who had fun termonuking dds with torps and cruiser with the completely balans ap bombs ( idiotic mechanic). Right now? my  midway seat on 60k avg damage, it feels frustrating, unrewarding and unfun to play it, everyone shreds your planes the second you spot them ( thanks to 8.03 blanked buff to aa detectability). And more importantly, why should i play tier 10 cvs, when in the last days i'm averaging 140-150k damage with tier 10 bbs, 120k with tier 10 cruisers, and with yugumo and hisiejang, considered the shittiest dds of the tier, i'm sitting at 70k+ average damage? and consider that i'm playing both of them with 8 kms torps, cause i consider them more engaging to play that way ( yugumo even without smoke, like real men do).

 

in the end, why should i play a class and be a guinea pig for wg and get frustrated, feeeling useless in battle, when i can have fun?

and you know what really dread me? thinking about all those poor souls who bought their first tier 4 cvs, i think it heaps of fun with slow as f. planes, that deals no damage, get nuked out of the sky and you don't even have reserve to take a bit of beating

[ForlornSailor]

6 minutes ago, Flavio1997 said:

My stats before the rework were 120k avg damage ( this was realtively low) but very high avg kill and winrate relative to the damage, cause i was one of those cvs bastards who had fun termonuking dds with torps and cruiser with the completely balans ap bombs ( idiotic mechanic). Right now? my  midway seat on 60k avg damage

 

You simply cant compare old CVs and new CVs. They are different classes. Besides the name, they have nothing in common anymore. You arent comparing your stats from DDs to BBs and focus on looking at the damage, right? Also, skills from old CV to new CV did not transfer. You might have been awesome with the old CVs and only mediocre with the new CVs. That doesnt say anything about the two classes. Some people are awesome with DDs and suck in BBs. Doesnt tell anything about those two classes either. So we have 5 classes. DD/cruisers/BB/old CV/new CV.

[anonym_RGvUdEcxWWvD]

15 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

Psst. Dont destroy his nice fairy tale. He needs to push his narrative.

 

 

Now whats the describtion thats missing here? Anyone can guess?

Whats with all the fixation we have here for EU server? Trust me, on EU server it doesnt look good either. How many times do I have to prove you wrong? You always meddle with my threads trying to put me down. Anyway, I will include the EU server stats as well.

37 minutes ago, eliastion said:

Pretty much nobody is looking at WoWs numbers after the hotfix 0.8.0.1 when it comes to comparing the CVs.

 

As for MS, when you're saying "weekly update, the one that doesn't include previous data", it would be a good idea to explicitly mention the day of MS dump you're getting the data from (since it's not updated daily but in week-long chunks, if I'm not mistaken - so regardless of the date of your post, it would be a good idea to get the MS timestamp). Other than that, good job, MS isn't exactly user friendly so going there for data is a pain in the butt...

 

The winrate might tell you the reason. Haku was severely nerfed, the 4-torp set-up became unplayable, 2-torp setup was harder to use than Midway's torps (and Midway's torps handle like carp - they're slippery and don't go where you want them), Haku's rockets were always inferior (although slightly easier to use, but both were comfortable enough until 0.8.0.3) and Haku's dive bombers might have slightly higher alpha potential but are harder to use and completely useless against DDs (that might not be super easy to hit for Midway but when you do land a bomb, damage is substantial) + they don't break AA so they don't make subsequent attacks on your chosen target less punishing.

Put simply: Midway was (post 8.0.1) a superior CV, so it's no wonder that it was played much more on all the servers, including Asia.

 

I think you're exaggerating heavily. CVs' average damage numbers are probably lower but not that much. I'd guess that what REALLY took a hit since 8.0.3 would be the number of CV battles played. Today I went and played quite a lot of Akizuki. Frankly... pre-rework I'd be thinking "oh, there's quite a lot CVs today" but not to the point of astonishment. I mean, ok, I would be astonished seeing a single match of t6+t8 CVs since pre-rework t8 CVs were on a strict 1/match MM but you get the idea. I'm not sure if the numbers have fallen this low or perhaps I was just this (un)lucky. Although frankly, the matter of "luck" is not very relevant considering that I don't care much if there are CVs in the match when playing Akizuki anymore. It used to be a big thing pre-rework, but now? T6 planes I shred, t8 planes I can defend against, t10 planes... Actually, I don't think I've seen a t10 CV today, so perhaps that would be a bigger threat, dunno - Akizuki is pretty clumsy so she would be relatively easy to hit with HE bombs and - even nerfed - rockets).

Good mention. Like I said in the previous post, I will clarify some dates to prevent confusion. 

2019/02/23

This is what it looks like on EU server:

 

-Hakuryu

Battles: 6976

Winrate: 48.59

Dmg: 70304

Ships destroyed: 0.80

 

-Midway

Battles: 17968

Winrate: 51.15

Dmg: 88107

Ships destroyed: 0.99

 

 

 

 

[ForlornSailor]

1 minute ago, Zlaraki said:

How many times do I have to prove you wrong?

 

You? prove me wrong? lol. When did that happen - in another forum maybe? Just face it: NA und Asia stats are irrelevant here. You know nothing about the meta there and the stats from there dont change a bit here. If you want to discuss asia meta - open a forum account there. They have their own forums. I wont be "meddling" with your threads there. Just dont post EU stats there to try make a point.

[wilkatis_LV]

1 hour ago, Zlaraki said:

Well my point is that Haku is trash like I mentioned in my OP. Unless Asia and NA play on a different patch you make a valid point here. I honestly dont really know.

Singe ship server statistics can and do vary quite a lot, even on the same patch. Not everyone has identical metas and "favorite" picks

 

If you are on EU either use EU stats, EU vs another or simply all 4. Not "NA and Asia", which is completely irrelevant here

 

EU:

Spoiler

- Hakuryu

Battles: 6967

Winrate: 48.59

Dmg: 70 304

Ships destroyed (this is kills per battle not kills per death btw): 0.8

 

- Midway

Battles: 17 968

Winrate: 51.15

Dmg: 88 107

Ships destroyed: 0.99

 

RU:

Spoiler

- Hakuryu

Battles: 5483

Winrate: 49.42

Dmg: 72 878

Ships destroyed: 0.85

 

- Midway

Battles: 16 034

Winrate: 50.15

Dmg: 85 187

Ships destroyed: 1.03

 

 

33 minutes ago, eliastion said:

As for MS, when you're saying "weekly update, the one that doesn't include previous data", it would be a good idea to explicitly mention the day of MS dump you're getting the data from (since it's not updated daily but in week-long chunks, if I'm not mistaken - so regardless of the date of your post, it would be a good idea to get the MS timestamp).

Luckily he did use the freshest - posted on 23rd Feb - data.

 

I just wonder at what point is it cut off seeing how it's still 23rd. Maybe it's actually 16th to 22nd? That's a thing I hadn't paid attention to previously

 

2 minutes ago, Zlaraki said:

Whats with all the fixation we have here for EU server?

Maybe because that's the one we play on?

[anonym_RGvUdEcxWWvD]

4 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

You? prove me wrong? lol. When did that happen - in another forum maybe? Just face it: NA und Asia stats are irrelevant here. You know nothing about the meta there and the stats from there dont change a bit here. If you want to discuss asia meta - open a forum account there. They have their own forums. I wont be "meddling" with your threads there. Just dont post EU stats there to try make a point.

Excuse me sir, I just have one question. Do the regions I have mentioned earlier all play the same patch? Do they all showcase the superiority of Midway in comparison with Haku? Its no coincidence, so once again, unless those other regions play on a different patch I dont want to hear any of it.

[ForlornSailor]

17 minutes ago, Zlaraki said:

Excute me sir, I just have one question. Do the regions I have mentioned earlier all play the same patch? Do they all showcase the superiority of Midway in comparison with Haku? Its no coincidence, so once again, unless those other regions play on a different patch I dont want to hear any of it.

 

Taking about coincidence: Isnt it funny, you picked the 2 out of 4, which show the highest difference between Midway and Hakuryu? We all know what happened: You wanted to push a narrative and looked for the numbers, that suit your case. So you checked all 4 servers and picked the two, that fit your story the most. Do you really think everyone here is stupid?

 

But not only that. There is more wrong with your story. Ill quote:

4 hours ago, Zlaraki said:

Compared to last week, the Hakuryu is sinking pretty fast in stats.

23/02/2019 :

- Hakuryu

Winrate: 48.59

Dmg: 70 304

 

16/02/19

- Hakuryu

Winrate: 47.56

Dmg: 65 212

 

Hakuryu is actually up in WR and damage. Unless that means "sinking pretty fast" in your words.

 

 

[anonym_RGvUdEcxWWvD]

4 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

Taking about coincidence: Isnt it funny, you picked the 2 out of 4, which show the highest difference between Midway and Hakuryu? We all know what happened: You wanted to push a narrative and looked for the numbers, that suit your case. So you checked all 4 servers and picked the two, that fit your story the most. Do you really think everyone here is stupid?

 

But not only that. There is more wrong with your story. Ill quote:

23/02/2018 :

- Hakuryu

Winrate: 48.59

Dmg: 70 304

 

26/02/18

- Hakuryu

Winrate: 47.56

Dmg: 65 212

 

Hakuryu is actually up in WR and damage. Unless that means "sinking pretty fast" in your words.

 

 

You are wrong again. You are always wrong my dear ForlornSailor. These couple of weeks I have continiously questioned the play rate of these 2 CV's. What other better way to demonstrate the onesided affair than to showcase the stats where those ships originaly came from? That is the exact reason why I chose those 2 regions. The fact is, no matter what region or meta you pick, Midway always comes on top and its very notable.

[eliastion]

5 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

Taking about coincidence: Isnt it funny, you picked the 2 out of 4, which show the highest difference between Midway and Hakuryu? We all know what happened: You wanted to push a narrative and looked for the numbers, that suit your case. So you checked all 4 servers and picked the two, that fit your story the most. Do you really think everyone here is stupid?

 

But not only that. There is more wrong with your story. Ill quote:

23/02/2018 :

- Hakuryu

Winrate: 48.59

Dmg: 70 304

 

26/02/18

- Hakuryu

Winrate: 47.56

Dmg: 65 212

 

Hakuryu is actually up in WR and damage. Unless that means "sinking pretty fast" in your words.

 

 

Errm.

You show stats that don't support your conclusion since both WR and DMG are lower in the later stats. Not to mention that they seem to be either from last year if you got the year right OR one of them is from the future if they were supposed to be 2019?

 

...my guess would be that you messed up both the day AND both years, but that makes me wonder about whether the other numbers are correct as well?

[eliastion]

4 minutes ago, Zlaraki said:

(...) What other better way to demonstrate the onesided affair than to showcase the stats where those ships originaly came from?(...)

Then you should bring up Russian server stats, considering that both ships come straight from WG development team that's in Russia