Jump to content
You need to play a total of 50 battles to post in this section.
Ronin_Cahill

Why the Hell is Tier 8 being put with Tier 10, insanly UNFAIR

74 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

[_CHN_]
[_CHN_]
Players
14 posts

I have only being playing for 2 weeks now, but have noticed some extremely unfair practices by this company. I was told by support that the tiers match up and down a few steps to make matches faster, however there needs to be a choice for those of us WHO ABSOLUTLY do not want to head into T 10 or T 9 because of the instant kill effect they have on a T 8 ship. I went into training with a friend and tested a T 10 battle ship vs my T 8 Alabama. similar guns etc. we stood side by side and fire single rounds to test the porportions of damage / armor etc. I hit him 28 times for every 1 he hit me to obtain he same damage result. we were 4km away and static. we use AP and HE rounds to compare both. the end result was his battle ship came out 24x more powerful than mine. He said T 8 should never be in a t 10 fight as they simply cannot compete and it annoys T 10 people. Which makes sense as I have had several T 10 players insult and chastise me for playing the game cause I ruined their matchs with my T8. they even go as far as message after the match and tell me to uninstall the game and get a refund with a lot of bad words. SO Development team MAKE A CHOICE FOR TIER 8 SHIPS TO STAY IN THAT TIER, and I don't mind waiting a couple more min for a fair fight, cause at least im happy with the balance and if I lose I know its my fault not the fault of the game's match making system and pits me in a tricycle against a Porsche.

 

ADD ANOTHER CHOICE TO THE LAUNCH SYSTEM (SAME TIER ONLY) (OR +/- 1 TIER ONLY)

 

And to all the people who message me death threats, massive insults, and derogatory remarks, its not my fault I end up in your match.

Ronin

  • Cool 1
  • Funny 10
  • Boring 1
  • Bad 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[OM]
Players
992 posts
9,643 battles

Haha lul...cause standing still 4km away from each other is a perfect testing environment...it happens so often in a battle...if u took a t8dd, the bb would be instaplebbed by torps from that distance btw. Just for your "testing"

 

T8 can fight in t10 environment, you just have to change ur playstyle. And which ships are "instakilled by a tx bb" (and even tx ships are instakilled by them btw), t8 bbs can devstrike tx cruiser aswell. Most of the problems on a t8vs tx can be solved just by changing what is sitting in front of the screen. Adjusting the playstyle, playing smart and there is actually a lot t8ships are capable of doing in a tx match. T6vs t8 is facing bigger problems btw. ..overmatch for example, concealment module etc...

 

U got a lot of premium t8ships after 600 games...u dont even know how the game is being played,u grinded one ahip past t8...srsly? No idea of top tier gameplay, buying t8 prems and crying cause u get matched with tx...thats a nice move

  • Cool 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
2,035 posts
2,760 battles

Don't know which is more funny/sad. Op's "suggestion" or the fact that a 617 battles played player actually expects to be usefull in a tier 8.

  • Cool 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[PMI]
Players
2,564 posts
6,009 battles

By looking at your stats, a +-1 tier difference would not help you, go back to tier 4, you have a lot to learn still...

  • Cool 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[TTT]
Players
4,113 posts
7,848 battles
26 minutes ago, Ronin_Cahill said:

I went into training with a friend and tested a T 10 battle ship vs my T 8 Alabama. similar guns etc. we stood side by side and fire single rounds to test the porportions of damage / armor etc. I hit him 28 times for every 1 he hit me to obtain he same damage result. we were 4km away and static. we use AP and HE rounds to compare both. the end result was his battle ship came out 24x more powerful than mine.

I am genuinely impressed. That has got to be in contention for dumbest thing written on the forums this month, which with all the rework shenanigans is reeeeally saying something...

  • Cool 3
  • Funny 7
  • Bad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
2,035 posts
2,760 battles
1 minute ago, Tyrendian89 said:

I am genuinely impressed. That has got to be in contention for dumbest thing written on the forums this month, which with all the rework shenanigans is reeeeally saying something...

Does make for a entertaining change from them though.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[BFS]
Beta Tester
1,050 posts
5,835 battles

While a T8 ship when matched a T10 ship will usually lose out it's still able to cause damage to the higher tier ship.   You're not expected to be able to win such a battle but it is possible with good angling and RNG.

 

In battle the T8s aren't expected to take on the T10s on their own - they should be supporting the T10s - although there can be problems with that at extreme ranges that some BBs have.

 

Edited: I've been in battles in a T8 and the only other T8 was a cruiser and the rest (BBs, CAs and DDs) were all T10s.   It wasn't fun but at least I wasn't in the cruiser (there have also been games where the CVs are also T10s).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[NWP]
Players
4,372 posts
6,242 battles

Believe me - same tier MM will be equally bad (if not worse) for you...

If you would play T10, your performance would be even worse, atleast your WR. You are lucky you dont have to contribute as much in a T8 ship. But if you would be T10, you would do MUCH more. This is equal for same tier MM btw.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[1DSF]
Beta Tester
1,469 posts
4,545 battles
2 hours ago, Ronin_Cahill said:

I have only being playing for 2 weeks now, but have noticed some extremely unfair practices by this company. I was told by support that the tiers match up and down a few steps to make matches faster, however there needs to be a choice for those of us WHO ABSOLUTLY do not want to head into T 10 or T 9 because of the instant kill effect they have on a T 8 ship. I went into training with a friend and tested a T 10 battle ship vs my T 8 Alabama. similar guns etc. we stood side by side and fire single rounds to test the porportions of damage / armor etc. I hit him 28 times for every 1 he hit me to obtain he same damage result. we were 4km away and static. we use AP and HE rounds to compare both. the end result was his battle ship came out 24x more powerful than mine. He said T 8 should never be in a t 10 fight as they simply cannot compete and it annoys T 10 people. Which makes sense as I have had several T 10 players insult and chastise me for playing the game cause I ruined their matchs with my T8. they even go as far as message after the match and tell me to uninstall the game and get a refund with a lot of bad words. SO Development team MAKE A CHOICE FOR TIER 8 SHIPS TO STAY IN THAT TIER, and I don't mind waiting a couple more min for a fair fight, cause at least im happy with the balance and if I lose I know its my fault not the fault of the game's match making system and pits me in a tricycle against a Porsche.

 

ADD ANOTHER CHOICE TO THE LAUNCH SYSTEM (SAME TIER ONLY) (OR +/- 1 TIER ONLY)

 

And to all the people who message me death threats, massive insults, and derogatory remarks, its not my fault I end up in your match.

Ronin

You only played about 2 weeks and have how many T8, 6 or 7, or even more ( buyed )?

You are the problem, you don't know even the basics and more a burden then a help for your team.

MM is at it is and will not be changeged because a nwebe who don't get to learn the game will changed it!

Go play some more hundred games in lower tier ships, learn some basics about spotting and gunnery and play your buyed T8 when you get there with silver ships!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SM0KE]
Players
2,629 posts
6,474 battles
14 hours ago, Ronin_Cahill said:

I have only being playing for 2 weeks now... <snip>

Whilst I must admit to being tempted to join the pile-on (because I'm a bad person), I'll try and resist and offer some constructive input:

  • Everyone is right, I'm afraid, the problem is not really with the T8 ships, but rather with an inexperienced user facing nasty opponents - sorry.
  • You only have a few hundred battles (617 at time of writing), and it looks like you made the classic mis-step (that most of us made, if we're honest) of buying high tier premiums too soon.
  • You may find this site of use: https://wows-numbers.com/player/560487836,Ronin_Cahill/
  • Whilst not the be-all and end-all, stats sites can help you identify problem areas and track your progress; for example, your WR (win rate) is perfectly decent in the first three tiers, before it falls off a cliff. This is perfectly normal - unless you are some kind of prodigy, it usually takes at least a thousand battles to get the hang of the game, and its mechanics (especially so at the moment, as the game is very much in flux, due to recent significant changes with CVs).
  • So, action point one: in random battles, go back to T4, and practice there until you've acquired some more skills, as well as some better captains; crucially, this is the last tier that does get +1 MM - the worst you'll face is T5. T5 and above get +2, which (as you've discovered) is a lot harder.
  • Action point two: have a read of the wiki: http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/World_of_Warships
  • The wiki contains a lot of invaluable info on game mechanics, as well as lots of helpful advice on how to optimally equip your ships, and skill your captains, amongst other things. Learning how all the mechanics work (especially visibility, as well as the differences between the various weapons and ammo types) should help you a lot.
  • Action point three: Investigate the matter of skilled captains: if you haven't twigged yet, a lot of the opponents you face at higher tiers often have better captains than it's likely you've got yet; although opinion will vary, I would suggest trying to avoid venturing above maybe T5 without at least a 10-pointer (and your first four point skill should usually be CE), as that's what you'll be facing and that puts you at an instant disadvantage. BTW if you've already made a pigs' ear of your captain skill choices so far, there will be a free reset in a month or so (if you want to avoid spending doubloons).
  • Action point four: having gone and spent all that money on those unsuitable premiums, it would be a shame to waste them - rather than getting flamed in randoms (where people do really get upset with egregious lack of competence), I would suggest playing them in coop mode - you'll still get rewards, get the hang of how the ships behave, shoot etc. Just understand that randoms and coop are wildly different, so still play randoms with lower tier ships.
  • Action point five: you're already playing the three main classes reasonably equally - keep it up; if you play all the classes, your understanding of the game will end up a lot better (just beware: some of the DDs are having a bit of a torrid time against CVs, although the latest patch may help).

 

So, there's a few pointers. I would also suggest keeping asking questions on here: so long as you avoid ill-informed rants to the effect of "the game is broken because I got exploded - WG need to fix it", you'll usually get mostly helpful responses.

 

WOWS has a steep and long(ish) learning curve - it's not like a typical shooter - one has to take one's time, and put the hours in learning the game. Advance slowly up the tiers as you improve, and you should find you get your posterior handed to you rather less frequently. Also, keep playing with experienced players if you can, and ask them to critique what you're doing - it should speed up the rate of learning.

 

Edit: as to when to start playing your premiums in randoms, there is a lot to be said for the idea that you shouldn't play them until you've played a silver ship of that tier first; I would mostly agree with that, although you could probably get away with it once you have a hundred or so games under your belt a tier lower...

  • Cool 17

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[TOXIC]
[TOXIC]
Players
4,360 posts
11,268 battles
3 hours ago, Ronin_Cahill said:

He said T 8 should never be in a t 10 fight as they simply cannot compete and it annoys T 10 people. Which makes sense as I have had several T 10 players insult and chastise me for playing the game cause I ruined their matchs with my T8.

I'm sorry to say, but you are wrong. Setting aside exaggerated difference between tiers (the only area where the difference between tiers is this big is CVs due to how AA and plane quality scale works), there is a more fundamental issue. You see, the MM works in such a way that if you are a t8 BB then the enemy team also has a t8 BB "in the same slot". This can be different in some very specific circumstances - basically, some rules get dropped from MM when the queue is too empty and people wait too long. It's then possible to see Random matches with slightly mis-matched team compositions and matches with teams smaller than 12 players per side. But that's not your case, I presume. And in that case...

Being a t8 is not a burden on the team because the enemy team gets the same number of t8 ships - so things are even.

People consider you a burden not because you play a t8 ship, I'm afraid. They consider you a burden because of the level of skill you play that ship with.

 

To put it simply: you bought your way to high tiers but have no skills to make use of the ships you bought. Your attitude is pretty much the WoWs equivalent of someone who buys a professional tennis racket and tries competing against professional tennis players - and when he gets his butt whipped, he realizes that some of them actually have even more expensive gear than him, so the competition is clearly unfair based on the fact that his racket can't compete with theirs. If you had their gear, you could've definitely played against them on even terms, right? But sorry, you couldn't. And, what's more, in WoWs the game isn't even a 1v1 like tennis - it's a team game and for each member of the team, the other team gets someone with roughly equivalent gear.

 

I'll give you a little piece of advice to help you gain some perspective. Next time you play a t8 ship in a t10 match, look at your stats (XP, kills, whatever - these aren't very good metrics of usefulness but in your case they should suffice) and see how well you did... compared to other t8 ships on both teams. Are you consistently, match after match, one of the best t8 ships? Or at least somewhere in the middle among them? They also play t8 in the same matches. They face the same problems of being heavily uptiered. Are their results also the same as yours?

 

Once you investigate this and realize that the problematic t8 MM is the least of your problems, you can come back here and look up the advice in @Verblonde's post above. Personally I would advise less Wiki and more videos by community contributors on Youtube (Mighty Jingles is hilarious but often inaccurate in many things, Flamu and other unicums have more skill and are better versed in mechanics but are less entertaining; I'm sure some people can give you some additional recommendations). Oh, and there are some How It Works videos by Wargaming - they might be handy too (and easier to digest than Wikipedia articles while still explaining some mechanics that get you killed but could help you kill enemies instead). But, where you start learning is less important. The main point is: you are just very, very far from ready for t8.

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[GOTHY]
Players
23 posts
5,403 battles

This is a summary of your ships Ronin: 

BB's: Every single one is a premium, all of the premium ones besides the ones that were removed. 

CA's: You have the Buffalo and a few others but the majority are premiums. 

CV's: Hosho and Langley.

DD's: A few, but the most played are all premium. 

You are the problem. 

41% winrate, absolutely terrible. 

 

STOP PLAYING YOUR PREMIUMS, and earn your way to all of the tiers you have bought, then come back to this forum when you have an idea of how to play and not waste your teams time. 

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
4,085 posts
6,257 battles

we can all hold our breath. Engaging in discussions is not his "thing".

Too bad tho. Or maybe better for me aswell. Dont really need PMs from mods.

Just one thing: check his stats. Check WR for: solo - division of 2 - division of 3. Yeap. Says a lot about impact of divisions.

 

 

  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[TOXIC]
[TOXIC]
Players
4,360 posts
11,268 battles
2 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

we can all hold our breath. Engaging in discussions is not his "thing".

Too bad tho. Or maybe better for me aswell. Dont really need PMs from mods.

Just one thing: check his stats. Check WR for: solo - division of 2 - division of 3. Yeap. Says a lot about impact of divisions.

 

 

Ouch.

So this is a truly hopeless case, it seems... the patient is already dead (or, well, his ability to acknowledge his own mistakes and learn from them is).

Press F to pay respects (or get your planes killed if you happen to be playing a CV).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SM0KE]
Players
2,629 posts
6,474 battles
24 minutes ago, eliastion said:

less Wiki and more videos

I'm just an old git who likes reading!

iChase is very good for the basics; for example:

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[TOXIC]
[TOXIC]
Players
4,360 posts
11,268 battles
30 minutes ago, Verblonde said:

I'm just an old git who likes reading!

Reading (the wiki) has the problem of explaining a lot of things in varying level of detail while a newbie needs someone to point out the most important things and explain them briefly on the basic level. Basically, a newbie needs a guide (handbook) not a wiki (encyclopedia) because the latter format is great when you know what you are looking for - but isn't ideal for learning.

Then again, this particular newbie seems to be a lost case considering that this is not his first thread like this and most of the advice here had already been given to him (and ignored). We're looking at someone who has decided to forever stay at around 40% WR.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[CATS]
Players
15,947 posts
11,189 battles
5 hours ago, Ronin_Cahill said:

I have only being playing for 2 weeks now, but have noticed some extremely unfair practices by this company. I was told by support that the tiers match up and down a few steps to make matches faster, however there needs to be a choice for those of us WHO ABSOLUTLY do not want to head into T 10 or T 9 because of the instant kill effect they have on a T 8 ship. I went into training with a friend and tested a T 10 battle ship vs my T 8 Alabama. similar guns etc. we stood side by side and fire single rounds to test the porportions of damage / armor etc. I hit him 28 times for every 1 he hit me to obtain he same damage result. we were 4km away and static. we use AP and HE rounds to compare both. the end result was his battle ship came out 24x more powerful than mine. He said T 8 should never be in a t 10 fight as they simply cannot compete and it annoys T 10 people....

Really?

38993_619_1546723797.jpg

 

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[BONUS]
Beta Tester
2,723 posts
7,569 battles
6 hours ago, Ronin_Cahill said:

pare both. the end result was his battle ship came out 24x more powerful than mine. He said T 8 should never be in a t 10 fight as they simply cannot compete and it annoys T 10 people. Which makes sense as I have had several T 10 players insult and chastise me for playing the game cause I ruined their matchs with my T8. they even go as far as message after the match and tell me to uninstall the game and get a refund with a lot of bad words. SO Development team MAKE A CHOICE FOR TIER 8 SHIPS TO STAY IN THAT TIER, and I don't mind waiting a couple more min for a fair fight, cause at least im happy with the balance and if I lose I know its my fault not the fault of the game's match making system and pits me in a tricycle against a Porsche.

 

Show us the replays where you were chastised for being a Tier VIII in a higher Tier match.

 

Just one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SHAD]
Players
506 posts

Ronin, You are far too inexperienced to have a T8. If you really want to play T8 (possibly the hardest tier to play) you should not expect to win often.

I truely recommend spending some time at T4.

 

I'd love to say this is a troll post but I have played with you before.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
849 posts
8,520 battles
4 hours ago, ForlornSailor said:

Just one thing: check his stats. Check WR for: solo - division of 2 - division of 3. Yeap. Says a lot about impact of divisions.

 oh. my. gawd.

Spoiler

unknown.png

  • Funny 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
466 posts
1,702 battles
8 hours ago, Ronin_Cahill said:

I have only being playing for 2 weeks now, but have noticed some extremely unfair practices by this company. I was told by support that the tiers match up and down a few steps to make matches faster, however there needs to be a choice for those of us WHO ABSOLUTLY do not want to head into T 10 or T 9 because of the instant kill effect they have on a T 8 ship. I went into training with a friend and tested a T 10 battle ship vs my T 8 Alabama. similar guns etc. we stood side by side and fire single rounds to test the porportions of damage / armor etc. I hit him 28 times for every 1 he hit me to obtain he same damage result. we were 4km away and static. we use AP and HE rounds to compare both. the end result was his battle ship came out 24x more powerful than mine. He said T 8 should never be in a t 10 fight as they simply cannot compete and it annoys T 10 people. Which makes sense as I have had several T 10 players insult and chastise me for playing the game cause I ruined their matchs with my T8. they even go as far as message after the match and tell me to uninstall the game and get a refund with a lot of bad words. SO Development team MAKE A CHOICE FOR TIER 8 SHIPS TO STAY IN THAT TIER, and I don't mind waiting a couple more min for a fair fight, cause at least im happy with the balance and if I lose I know its my fault not the fault of the game's match making system and pits me in a tricycle against a Porsche.

 

ADD ANOTHER CHOICE TO THE LAUNCH SYSTEM (SAME TIER ONLY) (OR +/- 1 TIER ONLY)

 

And to all the people who message me death threats, massive insults, and derogatory remarks, its not my fault I end up in your match.

Ronin

I refer you to my comments on your previous thread on this topic:

Please understand that I'm not suggesting going and playing more at lower tiers (in random battles, anyway; co-op is a different story) with the intention to insult you. I simply say so because there is a lot to learn in this game, and everyone except some very rare natural talents will get far better results from taking it one step at a time and learning gradually, rather than throwing themselves into the highly unforgiving environment of T8+ matches with limited experience. Insults and, especially, threats are obviously unacceptable, but people aren't having a go at you just for playing a T8 ship, but for playing a T8 ship without the requisite skills and understanding to be effective in one.

 

(Having a bottom-tier ship in one's team does not compromise the chance of victory, as the other team has a bottom-tier ship of the same class in return. What does compromise one's chances of winning is having a newbie in a match otherwise populates by experienced players).

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[-TXG-]
Players
2,431 posts
9 hours ago, Ronin_Cahill said:

 I went into training with a friend and tested a T 10 battle ship vs my T 8 Alabama. similar guns etc. we stood side by side and fire single rounds to test the porportions of damage / armor etc. I hit him 28 times for every 1 he hit me to obtain he same damage result. we were 4km away and static. we use AP and HE rounds to compare both.

:Smile_teethhappy:  Someone needs to learn where to shoot a broadside ship.......still laughing at this.:Smile_veryhappy:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[POI--]
Players
4,314 posts
5,395 battles
9 hours ago, Ronin_Cahill said:

a T 10 battle ship vs my T 8 Alabama.

I'm really impressed that 9/10 times the person that posts these types of threads complains about their BB getting uptiered, when T8 BB vsT10 is the kindest +2 uptiering there is in this game. I never ever saw a threat about how terrible this kinda MM is for the Hippers1, Mogamins and Charles' Martels out there. I guess they just already resigned to their fate after having experienced getting mercilessly hammered by BBs at previous tiers. But really, you can't tell me that Alabama vs Montana is anywhere as utterly unfair as Hipper vs Hindenburg, Baltimore vs Des Moines or Charles Martel vs Henri IV.

 

Spoiler

1Except the one time I raised the issue of Hipper being one of the worst T8 cruisers when uptiered, due to the diminishing benefits of 27 mm plating vs T9 and T10 BBs as part of my overall topic on why I think Hipper is the worst T8 cruiser this game has. But I have never seen a dedicated topic on T8 vs T10 being called out as an issue for cruisers as part of the opening post, not ensuing debate.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SHAD]
Players
506 posts
2 minutes ago, Seiranko said:

I'm really impressed that 9/10 times the person that posts these types of threads complains about their BB getting uptiered, when T8 BB vsT10 is the kindest +2 uptiering there is in this game. I never ever saw a threat about how terrible this kinda MM is for the Hippers1, Mogamins and Charles' Martels out there. I guess they just already resigned to their fate after having experienced getting mercilessly hammered by BBs at previous tiers. But really, you can't tell me that Alabama vs Montana is anywhere as utterly unfair as Hipper vs Hindenburg, Baltimore vs Des Moines or Charles Martel vs Henri IV.

 

  Hide contents

1Except the one time I raised the issue of Hipper being one of the worst T8 cruisers when uptiered, due to the diminishing benefits of 27 mm plating vs T9 and T10 BBs as part of my overall topic on why I think Hipper is the worst T8 cruiser this game has. But I have never seen a dedicated topic on T8 vs T10 being called out as an issue for cruisers as part of the opening post, not ensuing debate.

 

T8 is the kindest +2 matchmaking due partly to armour values it is also the most frequent tier to be bottom tier.

 

T5 is the worst  tier for  +2 but when you face T4s it feels very naughty!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[DSPA]
Players
389 posts
2,654 battles

The great thing about being a lonely tier-8 in a tier-10 game is the fact if your team lost the game it can't be your fault.  You was the one in a tier-8 and you're the reason that there was a tier-8 ship in the enemy team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×