CV players, it's not over for you yet

[Bear__Necessities]

CV players, like the title says, you have hope. From what I've seen from RN CV's... Edited*... They rinse everything they go up against. I'm genuinely impressed/concerned by what I have seen them do... 

 

Then again.... WG will probably nerf edited* them also after a patch or 2 

 

*Language please

 

(sorry bossman, won't happen again)

[Skurfa]

Maybe they just have to add 20 percent more HP to destroyer, and repair parties.

[Bear__Necessities]

Just now, Skurfa said:

Maybe they just have to add 20 percent more HP to destroyer, and repair parties.

The last thing this game needs is more Khabas sailing around. They just need to actually balance the systems rather than hotfix hotfix hotfix. For starters. Help out T8 CV's. I feel disgusting downing 50 plus planes in a Mino against a T8 CV. I find it hilarious. But I know it's not fair and punishes players for wanting to try play the ship class they like. Limit CV's to plus or minus 1 maybe??

 

 I'm not even going to go into the interaction between CV and DD... that's just a mud slinging match. (CV's started it )

[pra3y]

3 minutes ago, Bear_Necessities said:

I'm not even going to go into the interaction between CV and DD... that's just a mud slinging match. (CV's started it )

Actually WG's rework started it by introducing the multiple wave attack in a cv squad. This forces a cv player to stay in an area way longer than a rts cv squad would have, causing the DD to be spotted for a far longer time.

[ForlornSailor]

15 minutes ago, Bear_Necessities said:

Limit CV's to plus or minus 1 maybe??

 

That would help so much and it should have been done with RTS CVs. But WG made it pretty clear, last time in the recent Q&A, that this isnt going to happen :x

 

7 minutes ago, pra3y said:

Actually WG's rework started it by introducing the multiple wave attack in a cv squad. This forces a cv player to stay in an area way longer than a rts cv squad would have, causing the DD to be spotted for a far longer time.

 

I still cant understand, that there are people out there, genuinely saying, this isnt true.

[valrond]

11 minutes ago, pra3y said:

Actually WG's rework started it by introducing the multiple wave attack in a cv squad. This forces a cv player to stay in an area way longer than a rts cv squad would have, causing the DD to be spotted for a far longer time.

You really have no idea, do you?. RTS CVs had multiple squads, and, specially ijn could use one spare dive bombe to EXCLUSIVELY spot. Aside from that you had fighters that could spot low AA ships like Destroyers. So in RTS, if your DD had bad AA, you were screwed, cause a CV just could plant a squad there while attacking other things and destroying enemy planes with fighters.

[eliastion]

35 minutes ago, Bear_Necessities said:

CV players, like the title says, you have hope. From what I've seen from RN CV's... holy fukkbaws... They rinse everything they go up against. I'm genuinely impressed/concerned by what I have seen them do... 

 

Then again.... WG will probably nerf the living sheet out of them also after a patch or 2 

Well, from the initial impressions I got their tX was more broken than Haku at her worst (best?). The very idea that something like that could be allowed into the game was mind-boggling. Oh well, we'll see what state they are going to hit the live server in. Perhaps WG is going to, by mistake, nerf their power rather than handling, producing a CV line that would remain actually enjoyable even when their power gets cut to more reasonable levels? One can dream.

For USN (that wasn't all that great to begin with) and IJN (that got hit hard) it's most likely too late already - with the last somewhat comfortable squadron getting the handling nerf today (I mean, one could think "hey, this could be a small nerf that doesn't break it" but I've seen IJN torp handling nerf - from "a bit too comfortable, I can agree that it needs a nerf" straight to "I hate using this thing").

[Skurfa]

Just now, valrond said:

You really have no idea, do you?. RTS CVs had multiple squads, and, specially ijn could use one spare dive bombe to EXCLUSIVELY spot. Aside from that you had fighters that could spot low AA ships like Destroyers. So in RTS, if your DD had bad AA, you were screwed, cause a CV just could plant a squad there while attacking other things and destroying enemy planes with fighters.

 

Are we playing the same game here?

 

Cause it was what they could do.... but very rarely did, simply because it would be eaten by AA, and loosing your aircraft to AA, would put you in a disadvantage against the CV on the other team.

 

Just go through youtube channels and look at some of the better players, noone ever (okay, rarely) just dropped a squad to spot something, only when they were actively killing stuff.

 

So no matter how you twist and turn, the meta for the DD's HAVE changed, they're very often spotted for longer periods, and are, if the CV wants, targeted over, and over, and over, and over again.... (unless they hide behind the entire enemy team).

 

It's fun as a CV, just keep attacking someone throughout an entire match... it really is. But being on the recievers end, that's just a match you don't want to be in.... there's no fun in being constantly harassed.

[ForlornSailor]

2 minutes ago, eliastion said:

Well, from the initial impressions I got their tX was more broken than Haku at her worst (best?).

 

Id say Haku was broken (since there was something wrong with the mechanic, that could be abused - the damage itself, looking at 1 torp hit, wasnt that special) while the RN CVs seem OP. And yea, that could be solved be leaving the mechanics in place and simply adjust the alpha. My guess: RN CVs will get OP into the game, people get horny, spend again $$$ to get the T10 right away, then we see a quick "hotfix" to get them in balance. You know, if it worked once, it sure works again? Thats atleast what WG might be thinking. If it happens - you heard it here first!

[pra3y]

10 minutes ago, valrond said:

You really have no idea, do you?. RTS CVs had multiple squads, and, specially ijn could use one spare dive bombe to EXCLUSIVELY spot. Aside from that you had fighters that could spot low AA ships like Destroyers. So in RTS, if your DD had bad AA, you were screwed, cause a CV just could plant a squad there while attacking other things and destroying enemy planes with fighters.

Oh i do. 

On 2/9/2019 at 12:03 AM, pra3y said:

Look its very easy to explain why the current iteration of CVs (CI CVs)  spot more as compared to pre-rework CVs (PR CVs). 

 

With PR CVs, alot of the people playing them are either focused on dealing damage or just downright potato. They send out squads to attack a target or fly along the map border only. Once the attack is done they instantly send the squad back to the CV to rearm and continue farming or potatoing. Hence, they don't really spot anything and selfishly go about their own business. Only a very small group of PR CV players who are actually team players bother to scout/ spot for the team.

 

With CI CVs, WG has made it so that a single squadron has to execute multiple attack runs in order to be "spent". So even if a CI CV player is unwilling to do so, they will always be spotting for the team cause there will always be planes spotting the ships in the area of the ship the CI CV player is attacking. That is why there is a sharp increase in spotting. WG whether knowingly or inadvertently created this problem, they will have to either sort it out or players will just have to learn to adapt to it. That's literally it.

 

If you just think abit deeper there is a difference between a player choosing to keep their empty squad over a DD vs WG introducing a mechanic that forces player to keep their squad over a DD if they want to deal damage to it. I mean sure you can keep on loop around a DD in the current iteration without making an attack run but who the heck wants to do that lol.

[pra3y]

9 minutes ago, Skurfa said:

It's fun as a CV, just keep attacking someone throughout an entire match... it really is. But being on the recievers end, that's just a match you don't want to be in.... there's no fun in being constantly harassed.

Its not fun for the CV as well. Why would I want to keep on attacking the same target over and over to stack up the damage? You know how boring that is for the CV player. Death by a thousand paper cuts work both ways. I rather be able to do a fair amount of damage if I play well and land a hit on a target than keep on throwing planes at a target just to try to sink it.

[Bear__Necessities]

2 minutes ago, pra3y said:

I mean sure you can keep on loop around a DD in the current iteration without making an attack run but who the heck wants to do that lol.

The good CV players. I've seen a few top rate CV players who do exactly that as it means the rest of their team pummel the DD and when it's dead they can move their strike squadron to a new target. Unless that DD is particularly strong DD in AA defence such as Gearing.

[valrond]

8 minutes ago, Skurfa said:

 

Are we playing the same game here?

 

Cause it was what they could do.... but very rarely did, simply because it would be eaten by AA, and loosing your aircraft to AA, would put you in a disadvantage against the CV on the other team.

 

Just go through youtube channels and look at some of the better players, noone ever (okay, rarely) just dropped a squad to spot something, only when they were actively killing stuff.

 

So no matter how you twist and turn, the meta for the DD's HAVE changed, they're very often spotted for longer periods, and are, if the CV wants, targeted over, and over, and over, and over again.... (unless they hide behind the entire enemy team).

 

It's fun as a CV, just keep attacking someone throughout an entire match... it really is. But being on the recievers end, that's just a match you don't want to be in.... there's no fun in being constantly harassed.

 

No, you are playing the crying DD game here. I've been at both ends. Heck, today I played with DDs again, to see what the fuss what about. Got an Ognevoi on tier 10. I was the 2nd to last to die on my team. I spotted, capped and torped. I just don't go yolo, cause I can't.

 

Well, that just proves people have no freaking idead what they are talking about.

RTS CV; If you don't smoke up, have good AA or go close to an AA ship, you get PERMASPOTTED, the whole game, and the CV still have use fighters and attack enemy ships with torps and bombs. He can just leave one dive bombers (without bombs) close to you and that's it.

Current CV: You get spotted once by the CV. He turns to prepare the attack, attacks once. If you are alone or don't smoke up, the planes go away. CV maybe leaves a fighter plane to spot for another minute. Then he either goes for another target or pressed F to get another squadron and attack another target. If the CV wants to spot you, he can't attack anyone else. He is just cancelling himself.

[DFens_666]

11 minutes ago, valrond said:

RTS CV; If you don't smoke up, have good AA or go close to an AA ship, you get PERMASPOTTED, the whole game, and the CV still have use fighters and attack enemy ships with torps and bombs. He can just leave one dive bombers (without bombs) close to you and that's it. 

 

The problem here is, that it didnt matter really. Like every 10th game you had a CV in there, and then you had still many times CV players who were too stupid to spot the DD, because "MUH DAMAGE!!!!" while beind too stupid to kill that DD.

[Beastofwar]

It ain't over till it's over.....WG still need sell their early realease UK CV bundle's and other stuff.....who wants to pay for UK CV if they have been nerfed beyond all enjoyment ?

 

It is possible these new UK CV are not nerfed so they are more attractive then regular CV and more will be sold, but after the event will be nerfed.

 

 

[sgtmarple]

Vor 1 Minute, Beastofwar sagte:

It ain't over till it's over.....WG still need sell their early realease UK CV bundle's and other stuff.....who wants to pay for UK CV if they have been nerfed beyond all enjoyment ?

 

 

Lol, not me that is for sure. Any CV related stuff they can take it and shove it up where the sun don't shine. ^^

[pra3y]

1 hour ago, Bear_Necessities said:

The good CV players. I've seen a few top rate CV players who do exactly that as it means the rest of their team pummel the DD and when it's dead they can move their strike squadron to a new target. Unless that DD is particularly strong DD in AA defence such as Gearing.

 

TBH I try doing it but if your teammate does nothing then you're wasting time and your own damage potential. 

 

 

[pjotter_destroyer]

One (good) CV player can win a entire battle going for soft targets and easy kills.

Every battle is the same and a win or lose depends of the (skills)  from the CV player in your team and nothing more or less.

 

Our team shotdown 29 planes and our CV did 1 ship destroyed.

Enemy team shotdown 13 planes and their CV did destroyed 4 ships.

 

WG open your eyes and see the light because this influence of a single CV in a battle is totaly wrong.

 

[xXx_Blogis_xXx]

6 hours ago, Bear_Necessities said:

The last thing this game needs is more Khabas sailing around. They just need to actually balance the systems rather than hotfix hotfix hotfix. For starters. Help out T8 CV's. I feel disgusting downing 50 plus planes in a Mino against a T8 CV. I find it hilarious. But I know it's not fair and punishes players for wanting to try play the ship class they like. Limit CV's to plus or minus 1 maybe??

 

 I'm not even going to go into the interaction between CV and DD... that's just a mud slinging match. (CV's started it )

for  sure , like u told mid tier cvs to much overnerfed :P they should do bit more vs tx if bottom tiered

[RAYvenMP]

4 hours ago, pjotter_destroyer said:

One (good) CV player can win a entire battle going for soft targets and easy kills.

Every battle is the same and a win or lose depends of the (skills)  from the CV player in your team and nothing more or less.

 

Our team shotdown 29 planes and our CV did 1 ship destroyed.

Enemy team shotdown 13 planes and their CV did destroyed 4 ships.

 

there is a difference between destroying 4 ships and finishing off 4 ships.

If he would alone destroyed 4 ships he would not be 3rd on leader-board

 

by your logic, when you see DD being at the bottom of the table and enemy DD at the top, the win or loss depends purely on those 2 DDs?

[1MajorKoenig]

5 hours ago, pjotter_destroyer said:

One (good) CV player can win a entire battle going for soft targets and easy kills.

Every battle is the same and a win or lose depends of the (skills)  from the CV player in your team and nothing more or less.

 

Our team shotdown 29 planes and our CV did 1 ship destroyed.

Enemy team shotdown 13 planes and their CV did destroyed 4 ships.

 

WG open your eyes and see the light because this influence of a single CV in a battle is totaly wrong.

 

 

1.3k Base XP on the winning team? Wow that must be four kill steals. 

 

And no - a good CV player can’t win a battle alone. The influence of the class is mostly axed already and now the third (!) nerf hammer lands. 

 

Your claims are absolutely nonsense. 

 

The only influence currently with the overbuffed AA is spotting - and there you are relying on your team to deal damage. Which sometimes works and othertimes they are going to chase a small group somewhere irrelevant and you are lost with noting to do. Attacking only works against isolated targets which are rare and meaningless or toward the end of the game when it barely counts.

 

Currently CVs are a complete mess and not much fun anymore unfortunately. That’s sad because the rework started really fun.

 

The AA needs a HUGE nerf now very fast otherwise it’s absolutely pointless.

 

With regards to data: whatever WG is collecting now must be garbage. A lot of people stopped playing CVs again after the various nerfs so what’s left is probably only some super nerds. If you now balance around these guys the class may be almost unplayable for the bigger part of the player base.

 

@MrConway Are you happpy with the data? I can’t see how it can be meaningful which would to a degree explain the misguided nerfs here?

[Panocek]

21 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

.

 

With regards to data: whatever WG is collecting now must be garbage. A lot of people stopped playing CVs again after the various nerfs so what’s left is probably only some super nerds. If you now balance around these guys the class may be almost unplayable for the bigger part of the player base.

 

@MrConway Are you happpy with the data? I can’t see how it can be meaningful which would to a degree explain the misguided nerfs here?

Which is pretty much the story of RTS CV - with every nerf you drive "casuals" away while skilled ones still keep on pounding. And any new CV player trying out gets his arse handed to him on silver platter

[Torped1ne]

7 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Which is pretty much the story of RTS CV - with every nerf you drive "casuals" away while skilled ones still keep on pounding. And any new CV player trying out gets his arse handed to him on silver platter

With the differente that now good player are taken away too by boredom, i belive in a month or 2 The cv players Will be less than 1% of the total

[Panocek]

Just now, Torped1ne said:

With the differente that now good player are taken away too by boredom, i belive in a month or 2 The cv players Will be less than 1% of the total

Which will be success in balancing by utter waste of time and resources, as old RTS CV were already a rarity.

 

And as I browse though the game now, most cruisers have better air concealment than AA range. So DD vs Radartaur/Wooster story once again

[pjotter_destroyer]

34 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

 

1.3k Base XP on the winning team? Wow that must be four kill steals. 

 

And no - a good CV player can’t win a battle alone. The influence of the class is mostly axed already and now the third (!) nerf hammer lands. 

 

Your claims are absolutely nonsense. 

 

The only influence currently with the overbuffed AA is spotting - and there you are relying on your team to deal damage. Which sometimes works and othertimes they are going to chase a small group somewhere irrelevant and you are lost with noting to do. Attacking only works against isolated targets which are rare and meaningless or toward the end of the game when it barely counts.

 

Currently CVs are a complete mess and not much fun anymore unfortunately. That’s sad because the rework started really fun.

 

The AA needs a HUGE nerf now very fast otherwise it’s absolutely pointless.

 

With regards to data: whatever WG is collecting now must be garbage. A lot of people stopped playing CVs again after the various nerfs so what’s left is probably only some super nerds. If you now balance around these guys the class may be almost unplayable for the bigger part of the player base.

 

@MrConway Are you happpy with the data? I can’t see how it can be meaningful which would to a degree explain the misguided nerfs here?

 

Shure a CV can;t win a battle alone but when he have 1.3k Base XP with 4 kills and a Fubuki with a wurse AA shot down 5 planes than you can fill in whats happend inside those games.