Update 0.8.0.3

[Timberjac]

Also known as we have no idea what to do and we go ahead giving blind sticks.

[Kuritaclan]

9 minutes ago, MrConway said:

Come join me on Twitch at 18:00 today and we can talk about it some more while playing surface ships ;)

Mehr kann man es nicht durch die Blume sagen. Schätze ich mal. (Eng: Well you can't say it in a more roundabout way could you.)

 

[Hexxas]

@MrConway we join wargamings live Stream last time nothig good came out of it , only more nerf for the CV
and your Staf member Sir_nelson was very unsure on what to say and tbh it was a very much wasted time for CV players 
to be there . So why not just tell us the truth and say your plan are to make CV dissapear for good, thease nerfs you implementing

is not doing anything good for the CV player base or the game .

 

[MrConway]

6 minutes ago, OnceBittenTwiceShy said:

Oh dear, you shouldn't have said that.

Twitch will make you pay dearly for bringing down their servers. 

 

The more the merrier! "Luckily" I have a throat infection, so the amount of talking I can do is limited - so @Crysantos will have to do it 

 

5 minutes ago, Kuritaclan said:

Mehr kann man es nicht durch die Blume sagen. Schätze ich mal. (Eng: Well you can't say it in a more roundabout way could you.)

 

 

[hgbn_dk]

Was the stealth AA cruisers result in this nerf intended?

[Kedo]

@MrConway

 

I visit WG forums very rarely (saves my nerves) and I post even less. I'd like to state I play every class in game.

 

Pre rework, DDs could quite easily be spoted all the time (4+ squadrons), oneshoted with both bombs and torps and overall put out of game way faster and easier then after rework, so by reworking CVs you already BUFFED DDs.

 

Now, I have no problem playing DD after rework, I just had to adjust my style to new CV mechanics. I also started to enjoy reworked CVs (I'm not saying it's better/worse than original, just different kind of fun). But with constant nerfing of CVs - planes rarely return now, sometimes they got shredded for no obvious reason, it's often incredibly hard to get trough AA to score one success without losing whole flight and now detection nerf that makes you lose all planes instantly because you are in ships AA before you see it and thus can't evade (humor me and try Shokaku against AA speced Akizuki or Yamato)... and now you can't hit DD with turned off AA, since you see it too late to initiate attack and if you initiate before you see it, you can't really hit because you have to maneuver... that's just nuts.

 

It's simply too much for me to swallow. In plenty of matches enemy team tactics and ship composition made spoting only valid thing to do until mid/late-game. Targeting DDs more was mostly valid because there often was no effective way to engage other ships unless they spread and had some AA mounts destroyed (and smart DDs just hid under team's AA umbrella at the beginning instead of suicide-rushing to avoid initial spoting). Now CVs are denied this...

From my point of view it's time to put my carriers to ice until you (WG) come to your senses.

 

PS: After 8.0.2 nerf there was (in my games at least) huge decline of CVs in matches and I expect another decline after this madness. I don't really see how you can mine relevant data if most people just park their CVs till they're playable again, leaving you with just real CV enthusiast whose stats will always be above average, maybe leading you (WG) to another insane nerf...

[RBay]

@MrConway Fair. I'd love to, however work calls at that time. 

[Kuritaclan]

@MrConway I should make you a suggestion. You should get some good CV Players together in a "conference setting" and have a talk together with a developer to have chat about the current situation of CV play. It has worked somewhat for MWO when they released the faction play update and the talks about the balance in it. The current direction of the game is for all players guesswork. It is looking like the vision has ended with introduction of the CV-Rework and the developers are now in a state of agony and overreaction to the community. You have to have a format to break that cycle, or else you will turn around in circle.

[NoSoRetroJakko]

ffs why you nerf my Big E, shes the only usefull prem CV i own seeing as how Kaga is a POS and Saipan looses all its planes in 2 runs.

[Mcnutty_2]

@MrConway,

 

personaly I believe most of the "frustration" if that is the right way of putting it for cv players lies not only with uptiering and AAA scaling. (which have both been mentioned in not only this thread.) But quite a bit with a change made in 0.8.0.1 the increase of the "Safe" altitude for planes when they return to the carrier. While this was intended to reduce people from hitting the F key inorder to save planes, it instead impacted planes that completed a strike the most. What I tend to see happen quite often is when I drop my payload the planes that then return back to the carrier almost never make it there. They simply fly up in a straight line and proceed to get hit by flak and die. This makes me feel kind of helpless since I have no way of preventing this from happening. 

 

Instead of the current "fix" to F key spam wouldn't it be better to have the return function of planes be a 5 second hold F to return to carrier. Now I understand that this could cause issues with taking manual control of the carrier. Leading perhaps to an even greater lack of control then we are faced with right now.

[Hexxas]

@SeaSickOllie @Crysantos @MrConway

Wargaming , You need to Listen to players that play CV now , you ruining the CV Class all becouse DD players complain about being spotted and attacked , but read @Kedo wrote , all thease nerf are not good for the game , and you swinging the nerf hammer to hard.
Instead of nerf hammring on the cv , why not letting people settling down with the change Kedo pretty much say it his stament that he just adjusted to the cw rework , mabee other dd players should try that before Yelling for the nerf hammer to hit CV players.

[MrConway]

5 minutes ago, Mcnutty_2 said:

@MrConway,

 

personaly I believe most of the "frustration" if that is the right way of putting it for cv players lies not only with uptiering and AAA scaling. (which have both been mentioned in not only this thread.) But quite a bit with a change made in 0.8.0.1 the increase of the "Safe" altitude for planes when they return to the carrier. While this was intended to reduce people from hitting the F key inorder to save planes, it instead impacted planes that completed a strike the most. What I tend to see happen quite often is when I drop my payload the planes that then return back to the carrier almost never make it there. They simply fly up in a straight line and proceed to get hit by flak and die. This makes me feel kind of helpless since I have no way of preventing this from happening. 

 

Instead of the current "fix" to F key spam wouldn't it be better to have the return function of planes be a 5 second hold F to return to carrier. Now I understand that this could cause issues with taking manual control of the carrier. Leading perhaps to an even greater lack of control then we are faced with right now.

 

We are already working on a change that should stop planes always dying after executing their attack, you can read up on it here:

 

[Toxoplasmosi]

8 minuti fa, Hexxas ha scritto:

@SeaSickOllie @Crysantos @MrConway

Wargaming , You need to Listen to players that play CV now , you runing the CV Class all becouse DD players complain about being spotted and attacked , bu read @Kedo wrote , all thease nerf are not good for the game , and you swinging the nerf hammer to hard.
Instead of nerf hammring on the cv , why not letting people settling down with the change Kedo pretty much say it his stament that he just adjusted to the cw rework , mabee other dd players should try that before Yelling for the nerf hammer to hit CV players

Hexxas, what DD players most complaint is not CV, is the RADAR - SONAR mechanics, and spam HE over mountains (USA GB Cruisers)

[Kuritaclan]

2 minutes ago, Hexxas said:

@SeaSickOllie @Crysantos @SeaSickOllie

Wargaming , You need to Listen to players that play CV now , you runing the CV Class all becouse DD players complain about being spotted and attacked , bu read @Kedo wrote , all thease nerf are not good for the game , and you swinging the nerf hammer to hard.
Instead of nerf hammring on the cv , why not letting people settling down with the change Kedo pretty much say it his stament that he just adjusted to the cw rework , mabee other dd players should try that before Yelling for the nerf hammer to hit CV players

To be fair, I as a CV player and some others also noted that DDs got a hit by the CV-Rework in general (Some even said so even before it was passed). But the issues is another. The game play has changed. Before there were enemy carrier fighters to guard DDs from eventually getting spotted now it is free for all as longs you don't run into an AA Monster or cluster [edited]of ships near by. Sure this kind of change needed to be addressed. But when you wanna address it. BEFORE you patch it with 4 different solutions all in one update, give your ideas to the community and let them play around with it to argue which makes the most sense. Then implement the most favored and see how it turns out. That is the mindful approach to the problem. Not what we have now. Community rages. Developers make alot of changes that "overfix" a problem but create others in the process, that might have been forceable. Seriously Patchnotes got released Yesterday for 0.8.0.3 and one day later you implement them. There is no time for feedback. And in that circumstances the community rages even more. 

[Hexxas]

6 minutes ago, Toxoplasmosi said:

Hexxas, what DD players most complaint is not CV, is the RADAR mechanics.

you Wrong there mate ,  Cv get hammered becouse alot of people complain about being spotted by planes when they play DD i know i play my Cvs daily and even my clan mates complain about it so yes CV spotting and Attacking DD was the reason for Wargaming swing nerf hammer on cvs again you can go read the patch notes and see what happent to the cv and Attack aircraft , then you see why CV players are angry !

i dont mind a Nerfing if it makes sens but thease latest Patches , just destroyed game play for CV , sad burt true

 

[Toxoplasmosi]

They put islands and obstacles in maps, what for? If there are such of spotting mechanisms (CV RADAR SONAR ...)? At this point it is worth doing only maps like Ocean and problems ends.

[Toxoplasmosi]

6 minuti fa, Hexxas ha scritto:

you Wrong there mate ,  Cv get hammered becouse alot of people complain about being spotted by planes when they play DD i know i play my Cvs daily and even my clan mates complain about it so yes CV spotting and Attacking DD was the reason for Wargaming swing nerf hammer on cvs again you can go read the patch notes and see what happent to the cv and Attack aircraft , then you see why CV players are angry !

Allright, it is. When I see planes come I run near a CA/CL. But if they make RADAR work as real RADAR... will be more easy to solve the problem. I said they most complain... not that CV spot is not a problem, but not the first.

[SirAmra]

3 minutes ago, Hexxas said:

you Wrong there mate ,  Cv get hammered becouse alot of people complain about being spotted by planes when they play DD i know i play my Cvs daily and even my clan mates complain about it so yes CV spotting and Attacking DD was the reason for Wargaming swing nerf hammer on cvs again you can go read the patch notes and see what happent to the cv and Attack aircraft , then you see why CV players are angry !

CVs get hammered against DDs cause DDs lost their CV cover with the removal of fighterplanes to cover them. A lone DD is helpless against a focused CV attack. Ofc players will complain about that, because WG put into the game a completely unfinished product. U as a CV will hate these changes, but me as a DD player will welcome them. Latest gaming experience puts the Mino as the best cap contester ingame....so something is wrong.....and it isn't the DDs.

[Hexxas]

5 minutes ago, Kuritaclan said:

To be fair, I as a CV player and some others also noted that DDs got a hit by the CV-Rework in general (Some even said so even before it was passed). But the issues is another. The game play has changed. Before there were enemy carrier fighters to guard DDs from eventually getting spotted now it is free for all as longs you don't run into an AA Monster or cluster [edited]of ships near by. Sure this kind of change needed to be addressed. But when you wanna address it. BEFORE you patch it with 4 different solutions all in one update, give your ideas to the community and let them play around with it to argue which makes the most sense. Then implement the most favored and see how it turns out. That is the mindful approach to the problem. Not what we have now. Community rages. Developers make alot of changes that "overfix" a problem but create others in the process, that might have been forceable. Seriously Patchnotes got released Yesterday for 0.8.0.3 and one day later you implement them. There is no time for feedback. And in that circumstances the community rages even more. 

ANd DD gets stealth and no spoting when firing Torpedos , how does that make the game balanced at least with cv spotting you can sse the dd hitting your was and start counter it by moving , but that optonity is all so take away from the CV , making us even easy prey for the dd .

[rising_uk]

Oh wow! oh wow!

 

Just went out in my ranger, seriously WG 'balancers' play the low tier CV's for once.

 

Did the usual, launched a rocket squadron, waited, hit F, and then relaunched, as what point flying with a whole squad when you're just going to lose half of them and be deplaned at end of game(seriously WG just give us smaller flights and a bit more damage) headed for cap to spot for team with aim to scout rest of fleet(well what is the point of not doing that even tho' it ruins the gameplay as no anticipation anymore), detected, oh dd around lets look, wait, wait, (wtf!?) wait oh there it is! Put white sight on it, click attack, wait, wait, one plane down, wait, GREEN, oh! On the dd itself so no point in shooting as will overshoot, fly over it doing bugger all, turn to make another attempt, fly behind a mountain, another plane down to magic shoot through mountain shells, line up where I think it was, wait, wait, spotted, don't bother with white sight click attack, wait, wait, GREEN, Oh he's manoeuvring, adjust, sight increases, fire, one hit, dd laughing at me. Wtf WG really wtf!! Later in game could barely get rocket sight on a Hood without overshooting, are you guys really seriously thinking you are promoting the new CV's to newbies? If so you are going to be very disappointed when you discover you've ruined the game for nothing as they are not going to grind the lines. But then maybe its just all a ploy to get them to buy the premiums but how pissed are they going to be when they discover your habit of nerfing them later and the inevitable power-creep that makes them obsolete.

 

I think I'm just about done with this nonsense as whilst I understand why WG is trying to do what it is doing and get that the console and phone players may well be their future I just can't get excited by this arcade playstyle anymore. Shame really as I was a massive player of this game and put a fair bit of money WG's way but it is just too painful playing something when you know what it was like once. P 

[Hexxas]

5 minutes ago, SirAmra said:

CVs get hammered against DDs cause DDs lost their CV cover with the removal of fighterplanes to cover them. A lone DD is helpless against a focused CV attack. Ofc players will complain about that, because WG put into the game a completely unfinished product. U as a CV will hate these changes, but me as a DD player will welcome them. Latest gaming experience puts the Mino as the best cap contester ingame....so something is wrong.....and it isn't the DDs.

THey should swing the nerf hammer on dd stealth firing torpedos then , if you welcome the nerfing of cv, you would mind getting detected when firing your torpedos will you ? basicaly same thing we loose our abilities to harm dd then DDs need to get deteced when firing torps or its unfair and giving dd way too much power vs other ships

if you do mind that then you are one of thouse players that talked about earlyr in the post that yelling for nerfing becouse they are not the top dogs anymore !

 

 

[Toxoplasmosi]

11 minuti fa, SirAmra ha scritto:

CVs get hammered against DDs cause DDs lost their CV cover with the removal of fighterplanes to cover them. A lone DD is helpless against a focused CV attack. Ofc players will complain about that, because WG put into the game a completely unfinished product. U as a CV will hate these changes, but me as a DD player will welcome them. Latest gaming experience puts the Mino as the best cap contester ingame....so something is wrong.....and it isn't the DDs. 

as well as alone CA/CL or BB. never alone if you do not want to risk. RADAR over obstacles is the problem. CV is near to be good as it is.

[Kuritaclan]

2 minutes ago, Hexxas said:

ANd DD gets stealth and no spoting when firing Torpedos , how does that make the game balanced at least with cv spotting you can sse the dd hitting your was and start counter it by moving , but that optonity is all so take away from the CV , making us even easy prey for the dd .

I don't say that what we have now, is any good! Calm down. Also yes CVs are the prey for DDs too. But as once the fighters were in the way to approach the DD from a CV the "team" still should be in the way of the DD to approach the CV. However with the changed game play people are glued together to have their AA combined against the ever nerved CV Alpha-Damage/Flood- and FireChance so there are new paths opening for DDs to sneak up. That's how the meta and game play adepts. I don't say it is going in the right direction. But i say let us have a chat to sort those things out, like i suggested some posts before to MrConway.

[tw53]

WT..f  is WG doing , What is the point. Nerf the new CVs to hell, I WAS looking forward to them  but not anymore. Bloody crybaby DDs

[ArkRoyal_R09]

I don’t often post on the forums, but I really feel like I need to at this point. (Prepare for a long one, sorry)

 

I am so disappointed and fed up with this rework. I played the old RTS style and while I’ll admit It wasn’t really balanced and I probably wasn’t any good with it but, I had a reasonable amount of fun while playing them. Some games I’d get stomped and couldn’t get a decent strike off and others I’d get a decent score. But I had FUN!!!!!  

 

I understood that you (WG) wanted to rework the design of the carriers due to lack of players and difficultly in learning the class due to the uniqueness of the playstyle. I also get that since it was RTS gameplay a lot of people just weren’t interested, that’s OK people can like and dislike what they want.

 

However, you did NOTHING to help players understand the gameplay of carriers since their introduction for the very beginning of world of warships. AA mechanics were poorly explained and heavily based on RNG, so it was really an all or nothing affair when it came to shoot down planes. A lot of these factors lead to the CV population to decline until only those who were exceptionally good stayed and new people sometime tried them out only to be quickly stomped over by the experienced ones. It also led to the general player base no considering carriers a part of the game due to not seeing them for some time 30 games. Leading to few AA spec’d builds which then caused carriers to walk all over ships.

 

Upon hearing about the upcoming CV rework that had been teased for such a long time, I was admittedly sad to see the old style to go but understood the need to rework them and was hopeful of what it could turn out to be. I was Lucky to get into the very first round of the closed Beta test for the rework. I played a few games and had quite a positive experience I wrote in my feedback that somethings could better (i.e. manual control of the CV, use of carrier-based consumables, the ability to swap from Planes to Carrier and then back to the same squadron) now I’ll be fair some of them can sound extremely strong and if left exactly how they used to function then yes they are but, ideas were floated around by some CC’s about how this could be added without making it too much of a problem for the general players.

 

When the carriers were released in 0.8.0 ALL players were asked to accept they may not be well balanced but to bear with it and changes would be as quick as possible. True to your word hotfixes were reasonable fast but to the complete and utter detriment the the carrier game play. Now you tell us CV players that we need to wait for up to 4 full patches for some sort of "balancing" the repair costs have not bee looked at. I can lose a stack of credits because the AA is so strong that I can loose the full 9 squadron and you tell me I need to wait while DDs and CA/CL have been allowed to have some very strong and impactful buffs I'm sometimes lucky to break the 30K damage and stealth AA cruisers have screwed it even more. 

 

I'm done with the rework I feel like my good will has been shoved into the dirt and trod all over. I've not even been allowed to learn the class with it be slamwd down into being next to useless 9/10 time. 

 

Thanks for reading