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Russian BB 3D Models released

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Thanks.

 

Does anyone know what a fully specced secondary range would be (I think Jingles said base range was 5km?). Lenin looks bristling with guns.

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11 minutes ago, Mr_Tayto said:

Thanks.

 

Does anyone know what a fully specced secondary range would be (I think Jingles said base range was 5km?). Lenin looks bristling with guns.

It will be meh, not worth a secondary build :(.

 

The only ship I am interested in from this collection is the Sovetsky Soyuz due to it actually being built but never finished. I am not interested in the others as they are paper ships and all have the same 406mm guns.

 

One thing that is annoying though is the decision to change the plate armour to 40mm from 32mm,  the Sovetsky Soyuz never had 40mm armour but 28mm all over.

 

Meh these reds somehow get the best upgrades for a ship class that never really existed except for 1 laid down hull.

 

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7 minutes ago, ___V_E_N_O_M___ said:

It will be meh, not worth a secondary build :(.

 

The only ship I am interested in from this collection is the Sovetsky Soyuz due to it actually being built but never finished. I am not interested in the others as they are paper ships and all have the same 406mm guns.

 

One thing that is annoying though is the decision to change the plate armour to 40mm from 32mm,  the Sovetsky Soyuz never had 40mm armour but 28mm all over.

 

Meh these reds somehow get the best upgrades for a ship class that never really existed except for 1 laid down hull.

 

T4 Gangut was real.

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56 minutes ago, Mr_Tayto said:

Thanks.

 

Does anyone know what a fully specced secondary range would be (I think Jingles said base range was 5km?). Lenin looks bristling with guns.

Less than 8km

Source:

Scharnhorst has 5.3km standard. Module (+20%) AFT (+20%) Flag (+5%) give 8 km.

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I thought, Tier 6 would not have a float plane? But the model clearly shows a catapult.

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3 hours ago, ___V_E_N_O_M___ said:

Meh these reds somehow get the best upgrades for a ship class that never really existed except for 1 laid down hull.

 

3 hours ago, Seiranko said:

T4 Gangut was real.

 

Izmail or also know as Borodino class was also laid down. Izmail was even more completed then Sovetsky Soyuz when all four ships of the class were scrapped.

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4 hours ago, ___V_E_N_O_M___ said:

except for 1 laid down hull.

Three. One was faulty and had to be scrapped (small shipyard without experience was building it), but two were built and launched.

Edited by drmajga
(edit: fixed typo)

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1 hour ago, fumtu said:

 

 

Izmail or also know as Borodino class was also laid down. Izmail was even more completed then Sovetsky Soyuz when all four ships of the class were scrapped.

At least the hull yeah. Then they kind of realized, they are missing the guns and turrets, and the hulks just remained unfinished until being scrapped in the late twenties.

Russian Ship building industry was a clusterfuck of designing stuff, they can not build, or not pay others to to it....

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32 minutes ago, josykay said:

At least the hull yeah. Then they kind of realized, they are missing the guns and turrets, and the hulks just remained unfinished until being scrapped in the late twenties.

Russian Ship building industry was a clusterfuck of designing stuff, they can not build, or not pay others to to it....

Lol, dude, don't  make stupid statements, what they lack on surface ship designs the compensate (a lot) on the underwater - they were, back on 50-60,  ahead of western designs by a decade or more !

Some marvels build on that time not even today have an counterpart on western designs !

Google project 203, for example - the fastest sub ever build, full titanium hull. US could only dream to have the capability to made titanium hulls ...

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21 minutes ago, SEN_SEN_Channel_Portugue said:

Lol, dude, don't  make stupid statements, what they lack on surface ship designs the compensate (a lot) on the underwater - they were, back on 50-60,  ahead of western designs by a decade or more !

Some marvels build on that time not even today have an counterpart on western designs !

Google project 203, for example - the fastest sub ever build, full titanium hull. US could only dream to have the capability to made titanium hulls ...

The situation prior and during WW1 was certainly different.

Many of the protected/ Light cruisers employed during WW1 were foreign designs, like for example the Bogatyr class (German), Varyag (USA),  Askold (German), Novik (German), Boyarin (Danish), SMS Pillau and Elbing (German, seized on the  german shipyards and put into german service).

 

In terms of battleships, guns larger than 12" guns were foreign built. The turrets of dreadnoughts were based on austrian designs, and there was also some cooperation prior to WW1 with german shipyards on designing warships. The upcoming Tier 5 BB is based on a german battlecruiser esign for example. With the Izmail class, it became increasingly difficult for russia, producing guns, and turrets themselves, causing ultimatly the construction to be halted in 1917, and after WW1 it was not considered viable to continue construction since the issues of guns and turrets has not been solved yet.

The Sinop class is one of the notorious Blackseas Projects, of which not much is known, aside, that british companies got the contracts of designing the 16" guns. However, considering russians financial and economic situation, make it fairly unlikely that those ships would have ever been constructed. Those things are another 10.000 tons heavier than an Izmail battlecruiser. You would have to install completely new infrastructure for those vessels. Aside from, well the fact, that those ships were pretty much of dubios strategic value. What are you supposed to do with those? Cruising in the Black Sea, which you can not leave, because it's entrace is hold by a foreign power? Or to fight the Ottomans? Who at best have 1 14" gun dreadnought, 1 12" gun dreadnought, and 1 11" battlecruiser?

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6 hours ago, Mr_Tayto said:

Thanks.

 

Does anyone know what a fully specced secondary range would be (I think Jingles said base range was 5km?). Lenin looks bristling with guns.

ranges are 5km on tier 7-9 afaik and kreml has 6km base range

 

So fully specced youre looking at 7.6km range and just under 9.1 for kreml.

 

All of them save for Sovetsky Soyouz seems to have secondaries that could be worth something if only they had better base range. Actually Moskva and Stalingrad both have better base range with 6.5km. I would love to have a secondary specced Kreml, 6x2 on a broadside and 3-4x2 when bow in is pretty good. As for those with 152mm secondaries, could be fun to spec IFHE and get those to pen 32mm and those 100mm secondaries to pen 19mm. Ive been running IFHE secondaries on some of my french BBs lately, but its only possible since I can skip AFT because of the already decent base range. 

 

Really hoping that gets buffed tbh as it would open a lot of interesting build paths.

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1 hour ago, josykay said:

The situation prior and during WW1 was certainly different.

Many of the protected/ Light cruisers employed during WW1 were foreign designs, like for example the Bogatyr class (German), Varyag (USA),  Askold (German), Novik (German), Boyarin (Danish), SMS Pillau and Elbing (German, seized on the  german shipyards and put into german service).

 

In terms of battleships, guns larger than 12" guns were foreign built. The turrets of dreadnoughts were based on austrian designs, and there was also some cooperation prior to WW1 with german shipyards on designing warships. The upcoming Tier 5 BB is based on a german battlecruiser esign for example. With the Izmail class, it became increasingly difficult for russia, producing guns, and turrets themselves, causing ultimatly the construction to be halted in 1917, and after WW1 it was not considered viable to continue construction since the issues of guns and turrets has not been solved yet.

The Sinop class is one of the notorious Blackseas Projects, of which not much is known, aside, that british companies got the contracts of designing the 16" guns. However, considering russians financial and economic situation, make it fairly unlikely that those ships would have ever been constructed. Those things are another 10.000 tons heavier than an Izmail battlecruiser. You would have to install completely new infrastructure for those vessels. Aside from, well the fact, that those ships were pretty much of dubios strategic value. What are you supposed to do with those? Cruising in the Black Sea, which you can not leave, because it's entrace is hold by a foreign power? Or to fight the Ottomans? Who at best have 1 14" gun dreadnought, 1 12" gun dreadnought, and 1 11" battlecruiser?

prior ww1, even after, indeed, that's true, but lets remember before 1917 Russia was almost a century behind Western world - they still live in a kind of feudalism, on that time; But the situation changed dramatically after 1920-1930, the forced & accelerated industrialization together with - in some cases - UNLIMITED budged for R&D (research and development) help Russia to not just recover the huge disadvantage, but, in some cases, even to surpass the western science in some fields. Some say the period 1920-1938 was the golden age for russian science.

"What are you supposed to do with those? Cruising in the Black Sea..which you can not leave, because it's entrace is hold by a foreign power? Or to fight the Ottomans? ." - lol, read something about russian history man, almost all major battles between ottomans and russians end on the same way - the turks lost. Or, in other words, always russians smashed the ottomans. But the need for a strong fleet was not against ottomans but against Japan, especially after the crushing defeat of russian fleet on the Battle of Tsushima against much better & modern fleet of Japan. Russia lost 11 battleships then, some 4 cruisers, and 9 destroyers - an humiliating defeat, I think we all agree ; That show how imperative was for russians to start an radical process of modernization of all navy forces, and since the reds were in power after 1917, obvious there were no more any possibility to order ships or even parts to Britain or Germany,  or France, countries open hostile who even get involved in the civil war against the bolsheviks.

What solution remain - only one, to build from scratch all, with all the costs associated. Nothing impossible there, but the start of the ww2 put all on hold and the resources, sure, were all diverted to land defense once they were almost defeated on the first 2 years, after nazi invasion...

After ww2, when US naval doctrine prove loud and clear the battleship class become useless with the arrival of carriers,  was no more any reason to continue the program. They switched instead to submarines and cruisers.  

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39 minutes ago, SEN_SEN_Channel_Portugue said:

prior ww1, even after, indeed, that's true, but lets remember before 1917 Russia was almost a century behind Western world - they still live in a kind of feudalism, on that time; But the situation changed dramatically after 1920-1930, the forced & accelerated industrialization together with - in some cases - UNLIMITED budged for R&D (research and development) help Russia to not just recover the huge disadvantage, but, in some cases, even to surpass the western science in some fields. Some say the period 1920-1938 was the golden age for russian science.

"What are you supposed to do with those? Cruising in the Black Sea..which you can not leave, because it's entrace is hold by a foreign power? Or to fight the Ottomans? ." - lol, read something about russian history man, almost all major battles between ottomans and russians end on the same way - the turks lost. Or, in other words, always russians smashed the ottomans. But the need for a strong fleet was not against ottomans but against Japan, especially after the crushing defeat of russian fleet on the Battle of Tsushima against much better & modern fleet of Japan. Russia lost 11 battleships then, some 4 cruisers, and 9 destroyers - an humiliating defeat, I think we all agree ; That show how imperative was for russians to start an radical process of modernization of all navy forces, and since the reds were in power after 1917, obvious there were no more any possibility to order ships or even parts to Britain or Germany,  or France, countries open hostile who even get involved in the civil war against the bolsheviks.

What solution remain - only one, to build from scratch all, with all the costs associated. Nothing impossible there, but the start of the ww2 put all on hold and the resources, sure, were all diverted to land defense once they were almost defeated on the first 2 years, after nazi invasion...

After ww2, when US naval doctrine prove loud and clear the battleship class become useless with the arrival of carriers,  was no more any reason to continue the program. They switched instead to submarines and cruisers.  

It was more meant as being completely unnecessary. The Imperatritsa Mariya ships were more than enough to defeat that stuff, the Ottoman's could muster. Even if the UK hadn't seized Erin and Agincourt. To built such ships was increasingly expensive, and they were not required to get dominion over the Black Sea, or even the Bosporus Strait. That would have been a massive overkill, being simply to expensive for what you get after all. Aside of course, that being dependeble of foreign nations, to forge your weapons is  always problematic, and already mentioned infrastructure issues. Also, you would need a shipyard of that size, whereever you want to operate it, which was always a limiting factor. (Which caused for example Tirpitz being bottled up in Norway, since without a dock in France she could not operate in the Atlantic).

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You ignore a simple fact: Russia stand with one foot in Europe, and another in Asia. Ottomans were never a big concern for russians (history prove that several times) and more, ottomans cold get smashed simply by land, russians do not need a fleet for that ! Ottomans were not the Britain island, right ?

On other hand, to dominate and defend the Far East seas,  russia needed an strong, modern fleet - and this statement " Imperatritsa Mariya ships were more than enough .." proven to an deadly mistake for the russian leadership. They realize the imperative need for modern warships, with much better guns, after the defeat at the hands of the IJN. Remember, the battle of Tsushima was considered, that time, the biggest naval battle since Trafalgar, and the humiliating defeat of the russian fleet shocked the world. You make the mistake to think only of European Russia, ignoring they always have a lot of dominion on the Far East,  with a lot of coastal line - reason for a modern and strong navy. Even now, on modern day, the Black Sea fleet its just a fraction from Baltic fleet. Black Sea its more like an giant lake,  with a coast line easy to defend with land based artillery.

Russians never plan to engage the Ottomans by sea - no need for that - since they simply can invade from land, and, historical speaking, naval warfare was never the main strength of the russians, but yes, land  warfare, where they excel , like we see during the history.  

Speaking about shipyards, russians have more then enough of them, look / search for Admiralty Shipyard - opened by Peter the Great from 1704 - so they do have traditions, but never focused to much on building surface ships. This shipyard could accommodate warships up to 70 000 tons, 250m length and 35 m width,  and they build there over those  300+ years more then 1000 ships !

But again, the shipyard its best know not for surface ships, but yes, for submarines .

So, they do have capabilities and resources back in time,  no doubt about that. But Nicolai II decided was cheaper to just order the ships from external sources,  and also its true Russia lack of know-how until 1920-1930, because, like I wrote on the post above, until the bolshevik revolution, they were probably 100 years behind industrialized West.

Things changed very fast, tough, after 1920-1930, when Russia evolved in each year more then other european country in a decade, managing to "catch up" with the modern world in just 2-3 decades.

 

 

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4 hours ago, SEN_SEN_Channel_Portugue said:

Lol, dude, don't  make stupid statements, what they lack on surface ship designs the compensate (a lot) on the underwater - they were, back on 50-60,  ahead of western designs by a decade or more !

Some marvels build on that time not even today have an counterpart on western designs !

Google project 203, for example - the fastest sub ever build, full titanium hull. US could only dream to have the capability to made titanium hulls ...

What is this project 203 you speak of? Do you mean the Alpha, project 705? Very fast, but extremely noisy. Deep diving depth allow one to evade detection at that depth, but there is not much you can do whilst down there. Continual excursions between high pressure depths and sub surface depths causes stress fractures in ALL metals, leading eventually to failure. There is a good reason why NATO submarines do not use titanium hulls, the cost benefits are not there. Money best spent on being quiet. When you are playing blind mans buff, silence wins every time. If you can move fast and deep, but fart all the time, you'll be found. Even today's boats will run at 2 knots or so, so as not to produce any turbulence from the hull or cavitation from the propeller or pump jet, whilst stalking.

Being fast is not such a great an asset, compared to stealth. So really your statement about people making stupid statements, like the Soviet Navy being 10 years ahead is laughable.

Submarines are a life long passion of mine, hence the name Akula971, Project 971 NATO code name Akula. A very nice looking sub, with good hydrodynamics. Still noisy though in comparison to UK/US nuclear boats, which are noisy in comparison to recent diesel electric and AEP boats.

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15 hours ago, josykay said:

At least the hull yeah. Then they kind of realized, they are missing the guns and turrets, and the hulks just remained unfinished until being scrapped in the late twenties.

Russian Ship building industry was a clusterfuck of designing stuff, they can not build, or not pay others to to it....

Afaik the turret made for the borodino sits on the vladivostok fortress

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11 hours ago, Akula971 said:

What is this project 203 you speak of? Do you mean the Alpha, project 705? Very fast, but extremely noisy. Deep diving depth allow one to evade detection at that depth, but there is not much you can do whilst down there. Continual excursions between high pressure depths and sub surface depths causes stress fractures in ALL metals, leading eventually to failure. There is a good reason why NATO submarines do not use titanium hulls, the cost benefits are not there. Money best spent on being quiet. When you are playing blind mans buff, silence wins every time. If you can move fast and deep, but fart all the time, you'll be found. Even today's boats will run at 2 knots or so, so as not to produce any turbulence from the hull or cavitation from the propeller or pump jet, whilst stalking.

Being fast is not such a great an asset, compared to stealth. So really your statement about people making stupid statements, like the Soviet Navy being 10 years ahead is laughable.

Submarines are a life long passion of mine, hence the name Akula971, Project 971 NATO code name Akula. A very nice looking sub, with good hydrodynamics. Still noisy though in comparison to UK/US nuclear boats, which are noisy in comparison to recent diesel electric and AEP boats.

Man, you ignore that sub not only could dive much more then any western counterpart, but also could out-run ANY western torpedo !

"There is a good reason why NATO submarines do not use titanium hulls.."  false,  dude, and hypocrite !

The REAL reason its they simply cannot afford !  Hell, US couldn't even made the SR-71 spy plane without smuggling titanium from old URSS ! And we talk about a plane, a much smaller thing compared to a submarine ! Russia was responsible for HALF the world titanium production , and US was unable to gater enough not even to build a plane !

"Continual excursions between high pressure depths and sub surface depths causes stress fractures in ALL metals, leading eventually to failure. " - and you point is ?.... fire is hot, ice is cold...

Metal fatigue  its a common and well know/studied problem,  occur on ANY ship, or airplane,  over the years, that's why components are check on regular basis !

Thing is, titanium life expectancy its much higher then steel, IF one have enough titanium AND the know-how to model that ( molding titanium require high-tech, skills, and only few countries posses the required hardware to do that on large scale) ; More then that,  you ignore the most important fact, an titanium hull not only allow not just an much deeper dive, but also reduce the overall weight  and, important, its non-magnetic, something really important when it come to stealthiness. Oh, and yes, an Alpha at 2 kn or steady its as quiet as the most quiet western submarine.

 

And l2r dude, (learn to read !) obvious you have problems reading !

My statement was this: " on the underwater - they were, back on 50-60,  ahead of western designs by a decade or more ! " and not "Soviet Navy being 10 years ahead" like you stupidly try to change here !

You claim to be passionate about subs - I can tell you then we have an common passion, but please do not come here with CNN & Hollywood retard arguments. 

Better have an objective look at things like this, hidden by Western agencies from common view decades and decades, and spreading BS dumb propaganda on mid time, all to elevate the Westen supremacy on arms race.

"... U.S. observers at the time thought the Soviets lacked the tech for effective sonar, at least in comparison to the capabilities of the U.S. and its NATO allies. Now, a newly declassified CIA report shows how hunter submarines like the K-147 went on secret missions to track American subs without using sonar at all. ... A lengthy portion about Soviet technology under development gives details never previously revealed about devices with no Western equivalents. While NATO were concentrating almost all their efforts on sonar, the Russians created something else entirely. .."

 

source: https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/navy-ships/a28724/submarine-sonar-soks/

 

Nobody lead on everything - this its an very solid statement. You can lead in some fields but NOT on all fields.

And yes, they do indeed reached levels of designs never reached by western even on modern days : Shkval torpedo, K-222, Akula (like on your nick, so you must know that) - are master-pieces without equal not even today.

So, do not come here with the crap talk about the fact russian couldn't be ahead a decade on some fields just because you do not like that...

If on surface ships the West lead, by knowledge and tradition (no argument here), also for sure on underwater ships russians do not fall behind western counterparts, on contrary.

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We dont have subs in the game yet, so lets leave that chat for another time eyy. Hopefully never as I think they dont belong in game. So yeh Russian BBs, what do you think of them?

 

 

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13 minutes ago, SEN_SEN_Channel_Portugue said:

Man, you ignore that sub not only could dive much more then any western counterpart, but also could out-run ANY western torpedo !

"There is a good reason why NATO submarines do not use titanium hulls.."  false dude, the REAL reason its they simply cannot afford !  Hell, US couldn't even made the SR-71 spy plane without smuggling titanium from old URSS ! And we talk about a plane, a much smaller thing compared to a submarine !

"Continual excursions between high pressure depths and sub surface depths causes stress fractures in ALL metals, leading eventually to failure. " - and you point is ?.... metal failure occur on ANY submarine or airplane  over the years, that's why components are check on regular basis ! Thing is, titanium life expectancy its much higher then steel, IF one have enough titanium AND the know-how to model that ( molding titanium require high-tech, skills, and only few countries posses the required hardware to do that on large scale) ; More then that,  you ignore the most important fact, an titanium hull not only allow not just an much deeper dive, but also reduce the overall weight  and, important, its non-magnetic, something really important when it come to stealthiness. Oh, and yes, an Alpha at 2 kn or steady its as quiet as the most quiet western submarine.

And l2r dude, (learn to read !) obvious you have problems reading !

My statement was this: " on the underwater - they were, back on 50-60,  ahead of western designs by a decade or more ! " and not "Soviet Navy being 10 years ahead" like you stupidly try to change here !

And yes, they do indeed reached levels of designs never reached by western even on modern days : Shkval torpedo, K-222, Akula (like on your nick, so you must know that) - are master-pieces without equal not even today.

So, do not come here with the crap talk about the fact russian couldn't be ahead a decade on some fields just because you do not like that...

Nobody lead on everything - this its an very solid statement. You can lead in some fields and lack behind on others. But for sure on underwater ships russians do not fall behind western counterparts, on contrary.

Yes I have a problem reading "your" English. Your English is better than my Portuguese, but its still terrible.

So you are saying that the USA, the wealthiest nation on the planet, defence outspending every other nation does not use titanium because they cannot afford to?  No, the cost benefits are not there.

 

 

Still waiting for Project 203?

 

The rest of your post is a mixture of drivel and insults. No reply required.

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21 hours ago, ___V_E_N_O_M___ said:

It will be meh, not worth a secondary build :(.

 

The only ship I am interested in from this collection is the Sovetsky Soyuz due to it actually being built but never finished. I am not interested in the others as they are paper ships and all have the same 406mm guns.

 

One thing that is annoying though is the decision to change the plate armour to 40mm from 32mm,  the Sovetsky Soyuz never had 40mm armour but 28mm all over.

 

Meh these reds somehow get the best upgrades for a ship class that never really existed except for 1 laid down hull.

 

I'm also looking forward to the Sovietsky Soyuz because of the reasons you specified :Smile_Default:

 

Though I don't even mind ships being paper that much.

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1 minute ago, Akula971 said:

Yes I have a problem reading "your" English. Your English is better than my Portuguese, but its still terrible.

So you are saying that the USA, the wealthiest nation on the planet, defence outspending every other nation does not use titanium because they cannot afford to?  No, the cost benefits are not there.

 

The rest of your post is a mixture of drivel and insults. No reply required.

China are now the richest country on the planet!

 

They have the same economy as america but not the military spending :P

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5 minutes ago, Akula971 said:

Yes I have a problem reading "your" English. Your English is better than my Portuguese, but its still terrible.

So you are saying that the USA, the wealthiest nation on the planet, defence outspending every other nation does not use titanium because they cannot afford to?  No, the cost benefits are not there.

 

 

Still waiting for Project 203?

 

The rest of your post is a mixture of drivel and insults. No reply required.

Obvious you need to educate yourself on US reserves of titanium.

" USA, the wealthiest nation on the planet, defence outspending every other nation.." sure, you are talking about a nation who can afford to pay 500 bucks for a hammer, indeed. Or 2500 US $ for an toilet seat.

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12 minutes ago, ___V_E_N_O_M___ said:

We dont have subs in the game yet, so lets leave that chat for another time eyy. Hopefully never as I think they dont belong in game. So yeh Russian BBs, what do you think of them?

 

 

I confess I wait them with curiosity, interest, and for sure will be an improvement considering the actual state of the game, with all this cv confusion ruling now...

 

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13 minutes ago, ___V_E_N_O_M___ said:

China are now the richest country on the planet!

 

They have the same economy as america but not the military spending :P

maybe because they do not have 77 layers of "contractors" who can pull the costs 1000x even for a screw ?...

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