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Zuihou25

I love the cV rework, here is why.

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Hello everyone!

 

This is not sarcasm. I actually mean it and a Tldr for those who don't want to deal with this wall:

 

CVs feel mostly balanced except for t8 Shokaku and t10 Hakuryo. The meta shift has enforced more reliance on teamplay. Everyones AA contributes in one way or another. DDs are exciting to play now (for me)

 

So to my post!

 

The initial releaae was crazy! Trying to dodge the deadly flak, learning what planetypes to use! It took only a few matches to realise how OP CVs are! Getting 4 Kraken in a single day with Midway (I didn't abuse Hakuryo stealthdrops) was amazing BUT AA was the most useless thing. I dropped Worcester and Minos simply by avoiding flak and maybe loosing 2 planes every time! It felt wrong and i knew there was a nerf to come. And it did!Oh boy it crushedCV so hard i lost hope for a moment but continued and started playing more carefully. After 10minutes of the match i was usually deplaned anyways but i learned valueable lessons and with the last hotfix, they fixed endless death AA and made it in my opinion very balanced!

 

Let me start with what people feel is the biggest issue on CVs and why i don't agree.

Spotting:

You launch your plane, it doesn't reall matter if rocket, torped or divebombers and spot the enemy teams early game positioning! Huge deal but an amazing one! The enemy has the same spotting potential so nothing to complain about it here now hear me out!

This snapshot of early game spawns and positioning allows both ypur team and the enemies team early adjustments to counter each formation and allows precise decisionmaking of

◇which cap to support

◇which cap is least defended and thus easily obtainable

◇where to most effectively position the radar ships

◇To decide how to position your BB for the best crossfire potentials and pushing start capabilities

◇To know where a DD might lurk

 

Both teams get these benefits if the CVs on both to that initial spotting snapshot. With last position on the minimap enabled you can see the bearing of the snapshotted ships and therefore guess where they are going to be roaming! This shifts the meta into a more counterplay centered one instead of a, like it is in non CV games, more chaos orentied one where you only get information when the DDs are in spotting position already if not even in dangerous radar range!

 How do DDs adjust to this? Many DDs heavily dislike this change since it opens them up to be fired upon by the enemy team while being permaspotted but is this really the case if you play your DD correctly in this meta shift? Let's discuss:

 

i played around 50 or so DD games if not more since the CV rework and i haven't been killed by an enemy CV in the early game yet, only once i got killed by an enemy CV in late game and i VERY rarely got spotted but how is this possible? I must be lying right? No i am not. I learned why DDs get spotted by CVs since i play CVs. So i did what none of the DDs do that i killed with rockets and divebomber.

 

When the match begins the enemy planes aren't yet at your spawn, they need at least around a minute or so to arrive there and you are not spotted yet. The planes need to also arrive at your exact location too, which most times isn't the case either and this is where you make the right decision which is to relax, take it slow! You decide on the cap you want to go for first, you comunicate to your team what your intentions are and that you are going to play carefully and THEN you turn your ship 90 degrees to the left or right staying as close to the linr you spawned in if not even closer to the line where your cruisers spawned and dash away to the chosen flank or direction of cap. You avoid the middle cap since that will make you move foward opening you up for enemy CV spotting.

 

You turn off your AA, this will make you being plane spotted at 3,4 to 3,8 km which is amazing. Now if the enemy CV wants to find you he has to fly 3km deep into your healthy cruiser AA to find you whivh he is not going to want to do in the current AA state! What happens is he will spot the cruiser, get as close as he can but not touch the AA zone and search for you elsewhere!

I am talking about the average CV player here of course but even i myself won't extend into AA ange just to try my luck and uncover a potential DD hiding in cruiser AA! It's not worth the plane losses to spot and get maybe one rocket slvo for 2k damage on a DD off in their spawn just to get half my squad if not all killed!

The CV now will most likely leave the area he assumed you'd be in and search elsewhere which is exactly what YOU WANT because now he has no idea yet where you are and either wastes his time searching for you and loosing dmg potential and planes, or he pics other targets like low AA cruisers or BBs!

As you can see you have to change up your approach alot but it's working and creates interesting mindgames between DD and CV!

Now after the initial spot of the enemy CV is over is your time to get out there. You keep your AA off, hope the enemy DD makes a mistake and gets spotted and determine if you now want to go into the cap and announce yourself to the enemy CV OR go to flank and delay capping until your teams support is close enough!

No tips of mine will help you from this point on since the rest is up to you to handle but i will give myself as an example again!

I played 8km torps shima and decided to flank together with a BB, staying a bit ahead of it. My BB teammate appreciated this alot because i kept him safe from potential torps (me spotting them for him) and at the same time spotting for him while the BB provided me with an AA umbrella if i needed one (Montana in this example).

With my AA turned off the planes of the enemy CV scouting towards my general direction never came close enough to see me so i was pretty much free to do what i wanted. Staying on the flank well out of enemy Radar range i sneaked past after checking that all enemy DDs were spotted on different locations and proceded to kill 2 full health enemy BBs with my torps, my team won over the flank and my CV kept the misplaying enemy DDs occupied. I approached the enemy CVs now since we started to control 2 out of 3 caps and there was no way for me to get through to the last uncontrolled cap.

When i started spotting the enemx Cvs they were both in panic mode. They searched for me with rockets for a LONG time until they happen to cross my 3,4km air detection! The one who spotted me paniced so hard he started to go for the attack as soon as he saw me and 3,4km is not far enough for rockets to aim properly so he missed entirely!

The second attack run he flew out pf my detection so he needed to aquire me again and i SLOWED DOWN which made him overshoot AGAIN! So they tried to rocket me without success both together taking maybe 5k of my FULL LIFE shima before the game ended in a victory for us!

I had many games like these and the only time i was killed by a CV was by divebombers at the end of the match that we were winning and i killed 4 ships in before he spotted me while i was using 8km torps.

 

You need to adjust your DD playstyle instead of moaning about jot being able to do what you usually do and it will be alright. Play smart, see the planes coming, do evasive maneuvers. Your AA detection is your hitbox now!

But enough of that! next point!

 

Rockets:

The rockets are seen as overpowered all powerful spotting machines for no reason. If they hit you in a dd you take at most 4k salvos if you even attempt to dodge. I SAID at most.

I got 7k salvos on DDs before who decided to continue sailing in a straight line. I got detonations in them too but detons are random so who cares about those. Rockets all in all are not powerful themselves and only the midway ones to meaningful damage to cruisers or BBs if lined up well. They are great firestarters or Divebomber/torpedo followups or harrassment units.

I mostly use rockets when i took to many losses with dive or torpedobombers as a filler to stress out the enemy push.

They work to harrass DDs for a short time and to make them waste their smoke so i can later kill them with divebombers more easily.

Amazing utility units to use when having downtime on other planetypes or as early game sacrifices to disrupt early game positioning!

 

Torpedo Bombers:

Torpedo Bombers are a very interesting unit! Opening early game with them is amazing because it completely destroyes one flank of the enemy. Them being spotted close to enemy ships alone makes them turn ruining that flanks early positioning but their overall dmg is pretty low without sacrificing the whole squad in an all out attack for 20k damage at most on a BB early.

Late game they are the kings. While you use up more relyable divebombers and lose those, the torpedos are waiting there to be read to strike the AA weakend ships for potential flood buildup or to strike late game isolated targets! Good to finish cruisers or BBs off or wound them enough for your team to have an advantage over them or even make a comeback WHILE buying plane recovery time! Also amazing to trigger DCP of enemy ships to later follow up with rockets or divebombers for permanent fires! Overall amazing late game utility and early game disruption which can lead to an easier achieveable win for your team!

 

Divebombers:

The ultimate killer. Midway divebombers are the go to tool to dealing dmg and killing DDs.

You drop DDs like gearing for 10k+ consistently (my max was 18k!), you deal 10k + drops to ALL cruisers and up to 20k dmg to BBs + fires! These are your mean dmg dealers and your most impactful tool. Early game they are amazing to wound misplaying enemy DDs if not outright kill them! But they are terrible in attacking ship formations so shouldn't be used to early to not lose your teeth for 10 whole minutes! You want them healthy and availible to deal devastating dmg where it's needed WHEN it's needed! Your team is in trouble on a certain flank?A specific ship is dominating them? Take your Divebombers and teach him a lesson!It's worth loosing half your squad to win over a flank and later maybe even the whole game! A DD sneaked past your early spotting?You now know he is closer then comfort allows? SHOW HIM THOSE BOMBS and make him regret coming at you! These divebombers shine mid - endgame and will get you great dmg numbers and good performance!

The Hakuryo doesn't have this luxury. A pity.

 

So now that i talked about the planes let me adress the Midway and Hakuryo too.

 

Midway:

The midway is currently and will be, in my opinion even after UK CV release King of t10 Cv. Midway has all the tools for a successful CV game. Hard hitting rockets towards Cruisers and BBs (up to 10k dmg if lined up well), amazing torpedos, 6 of them and easy to drop and aim! Greatest divebombers, all around anti ship tools with very impressive dmg and fire stacking! Amazing plane health overall and great AA for self defense. The perfect CV.

It shines early to endgame if played properly.

 

Hakuryo:

Possibly the worst t10 CV if nothing changes with it's current balancing.

Rockets are weaker and not as relyable as Midways. Torpedos are hard to use, they hit harder but to hit them is an entirely different story. Way to hard to use up to borderline unuseable. You will hit ships who don't know how to turn correctly but at least you will make them turn which is a + i guess.

Divebombers are very unrelyable. Depend on perfect lineup. Rng is not good at all. They are cruiser killers, dealing up to 24k damage if aimed properly but VERY inconsistently. DO NOTHING to DDs and only seldom relyable unrepairable dmg to BBs due to citadels but even then it's simply to hard to get the aiming right if a BB is actively turning. If the bomb doesn't hit the middle of the ship or hits a turret you won't get that citadel and mostly overpens or bounces.

This ship can not defend itself against DDs, is way to team dependent and can only aquire meaningful dmg via torp drops which are hard to hit. If your topedo planes are shot down only rocket planes are left as a real option and Divebombers are downtime fodder.

 

 

Autopilot (Consumeable automatation):

They did great stuff here. The autopilot, once you figure it out is easy to use and fast in responding.

You can reverse at the start of the match.

Set multiple waypoints

Quickly let it turn to avoid torps without loosing control over your squadron

You can tell it to turn instead of reverse with setting waypoints correctly and be very flexible.

In one of my Kraken hakuryo games i managed a DOUBLE STRIKE by killing enemy Khaba with rockets while RAMMING THE ENEMY MIDWAY WINNING THE GAME.

To all who dismiss the autopilot, give it another try, learn how it works and stop complaining just because it didn't behave correctly the first time. learn to use it.

 

The automatic consumeable usage lets me concentrate FULLY on squadron control. NEVER have i felt the need or want to control them myself. Thex let me play my game to the fullest and i felt never handycapped because of them activating possibly early.

CV snipes are mostly stupid in the current state of CV and if you are setting afire by SHIPS you did something wrong and will most likely die in the next 30seconds anyway. No manuel usage can safe you here. position correctly and the fires set by suicidal enemy rocket planes get taken care of while you farm those enemy BBs for juicy dmg! Amazing!

 

 

Since the rework random games shift into a new meta which is now way more team game dependent and therefore in my opinion far more awesome! The choices you make feel jore impactful in CV games. You feel your good plays way more and also feel your misplays! Now is the time to use your head when making decisions planning beforehand as a CV, DD or other surface ship player. Each of us has a much more pronounced role assigned to each other. Less chaotic and more organised. Communication is key! It feels amazing.

 

 

Thank you for your effort Wargaming and i hope you will balance and tweak as necessarry until everyone is somewhat satisfied!

 

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5 minutes ago, Zuihou25 said:

This is not sarcasm

Honestly? Even with the disclaimer ... 

 

Glad you enjoy it as much as you put it out here. I do like the new CVs, but there's still a bit more balancing to do.

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Vor 7 Minuten, Azalgor sagte:

How much did they pay you?

I wish they payed me. I just want my Zuiho back

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16 minutes ago, Zuihou25 said:

Hello everyone!

 

This is not sarcasm. I actually mean it and a Tldr for those who don't want to deal with this wall:

 

CVs feel mostly balanced except for t8 Shokaku and t10 Hakuryo. The meta shift has enforced more reliance on teamplay. Everyones AA contributes in one way or another. DDs are exciting to play now (for me)

 

So to my post!

 

The initial releaae was crazy! Trying to dodge the deadly flak, learning what planetypes to use! It took only a few matches to realise how OP CVs are! Getting 4 Kraken in a single day with Midway (I didn't abuse Hakuryo stealthdrops) was amazing BUT AA was the most useless thing. I dropped Worcester and Minos simply by avoiding flak and maybe loosing 2 planes every time! It felt wrong and i knew there was a nerf to come. And it did!Oh boy it crushedCV so hard i lost hope for a moment but continued and started playing more carefully. After 10minutes of the match i was usually deplaned anyways but i learned valueable lessons and with the last hotfix, they fixed endless death AA and made it in my opinion very balanced!

 

Let me start with what people feel is the biggest issue on CVs and why i don't agree.

Spotting:

You launch your plane, it doesn't reall matter if rocket, torped or divebombers and spot the enemy teams early game positioning! Huge deal but an amazing one! The enemy has the same spotting potential so nothing to complain about it here now hear me out!

This snapshot of early game spawns and positioning allows both ypur team and the enemies team early adjustments to counter each formation and allows precise decisionmaking of

◇which cap to support

◇which cap is least defended and thus easily obtainable

◇where to most effectively position the radar ships

◇To decide how to position your BB for the best crossfire potentials and pushing start capabilities

◇To know where a DD might lurk

 

Both teams get these benefits if the CVs on both to that initial spotting snapshot. With last position on the minimap enabled you can see the bearing of the snapshotted ships and therefore guess where they are going to be roaming! This shifts the meta into a more counterplay centered one instead of a, like it is in non CV games, more chaos orentied one where you only get information when the DDs are in spotting position already if not even in dangerous radar range!

 How do DDs adjust to this? Many DDs heavily dislike this change since it opens them up to be fired upon by the enemy team while being permaspotted but is this really the case if you play your DD correctly in this meta shift? Let's discuss:

 

i played around 50 or so DD games if not more since the CV rework and i haven't been killed by an enemy CV in the early game yet, only once i got killed by an enemy CV in late game and i VERY rarely got spotted but how is this possible? I must be lying right? No i am not. I learned why DDs get spotted by CVs since i play CVs. So i did what none of the DDs do that i killed with rockets and divebomber.

 

When the match begins the enemy planes aren't yet at your spawn, they need at least around a minute or so to arrive there and you are not spotted yet. The planes need to also arrive at your exact location too, which most times isn't the case either and this is where you make the right decision which is to relax, take it slow! You decide on the cap you want to go for first, you comunicate to your team what your intentions are and that you are going to play carefully and THEN you turn your ship 90 degrees to the left or right staying as close to the linr you spawned in if not even closer to the line where your cruisers spawned and dash away to the chosen flank or direction of cap. You avoid the middle cap since that will make you move foward opening you up for enemy CV spotting.

 

You turn off your AA, this will make you being plane spotted at 3,4 to 3,8 km which is amazing. Now if the enemy CV wants to find you he has to fly 3km deep into your healthy cruiser AA to find you whivh he is not going to want to do in the current AA state! What happens is he will spot the cruiser, get as close as he can but not touch the AA zone and search for you elsewhere!

I am talking about the average CV player here of course but even i myself won't extend into AA ange just to try my luck and uncover a potential DD hiding in cruiser AA! It's not worth the plane losses to spot and get maybe one rocket slvo for 2k damage on a DD off in their spawn just to get half my squad if not all killed!

The CV now will most likely leave the area he assumed you'd be in and search elsewhere which is exactly what YOU WANT because now he has no idea yet where you are and either wastes his time searching for you and loosing dmg potential and planes, or he pics other targets like low AA cruisers or BBs!

As you can see you have to change up your approach alot but it's working and creates interesting mindgames between DD and CV!

Now after the initial spot of the enemy CV is over is your time to get out there. You keep your AA off, hope the enemy DD makes a mistake and gets spotted and determine if you now want to go into the cap and announce yourself to the enemy CV OR go to flank and delay capping until your teams support is close enough!

No tips of mine will help you from this point on since the rest is up to you to handle but i will give myself as an example again!

I played 8km torps shima and decided to flank together with a BB, staying a bit ahead of it. My BB teammate appreciated this alot because i kept him safe from potential torps (me spotting them for him) and at the same time spotting for him while the BB provided me with an AA umbrella if i needed one (Montana in this example).

With my AA turned off the planes of the enemy CV scouting towards my general direction never came close enough to see me so i was pretty much free to do what i wanted. Staying on the flank well out of enemy Radar range i sneaked past after checking that all enemy DDs were spotted on different locations and proceded to kill 2 full health enemy BBs with my torps, my team won over the flank and my CV kept the misplaying enemy DDs occupied. I approached the enemy CVs now since we started to control 2 out of 3 caps and there was no way for me to get through to the last uncontrolled cap.

When i started spotting the enemx Cvs they were both in panic mode. They searched for me with rockets for a LONG time until they happen to cross my 3,4km air detection! The one who spotted me paniced so hard he started to go for the attack as soon as he saw me and 3,4km is not far enough for rockets to aim properly so he missed entirely!

The second attack run he flew out pf my detection so he needed to aquire me again and i SLOWED DOWN which made him overshoot AGAIN! So they tried to rocket me without success both together taking maybe 5k of my FULL LIFE shima before the game ended in a victory for us!

I had many games like these and the only time i was killed by a CV was by divebombers at the end of the match that we were winning and i killed 4 ships in before he spotted me while i was using 8km torps.

 

You need to adjust your DD playstyle instead of moaning about jot being able to do what you usually do and it will be alright. Play smart, see the planes coming, do evasive maneuvers. Your AA detection is your hitbox now!

But enough of that! next point!

 

Rockets:

The rockets are seen as overpowered all powerful spotting machines for no reason. If they hit you in a dd you take at most 4k salvos if you even attempt to dodge. I SAID at most.

I got 7k salvos on DDs before who decided to continue sailing in a straight line. I got detonations in them too but detons are random so who cares about those. Rockets all in all are not powerful themselves and only the midway ones to meaningful damage to cruisers or BBs if lined up well. They are great firestarters or Divebomber/torpedo followups or harrassment units.

I mostly use rockets when i took to many losses with dive or torpedobombers as a filler to stress out the enemy push.

They work to harrass DDs for a short time and to make them waste their smoke so i can later kill them with divebombers more easily.

Amazing utility units to use when having downtime on other planetypes or as early game sacrifices to disrupt early game positioning!

 

Torpedo Bombers:

Torpedo Bombers are a very interesting unit! Opening early game with them is amazing because it completely destroyes one flank of the enemy. Them being spotted close to enemy ships alone makes them turn ruining that flanks early positioning but their overall dmg is pretty low without sacrificing the whole squad in an all out attack for 20k damage at most on a BB early.

Late game they are the kings. While you use up more relyable divebombers and lose those, the torpedos are waiting there to be read to strike the AA weakend ships for potential flood buildup or to strike late game isolated targets! Good to finish cruisers or BBs off or wound them enough for your team to have an advantage over them or even make a comeback WHILE buying plane recovery time! Also amazing to trigger DCP of enemy ships to later follow up with rockets or divebombers for permanent fires! Overall amazing late game utility and early game disruption which can lead to an easier achieveable win for your team!

 

Divebombers:

The ultimate killer. Midway divebombers are the go to tool to dealing dmg and killing DDs.

You drop DDs like gearing for 10k+ consistently (my max was 18k!), you deal 10k + drops to ALL cruisers and up to 20k dmg to BBs + fires! These are your mean dmg dealers and your most impactful tool. Early game they are amazing to wound misplaying enemy DDs if not outright kill them! But they are terrible in attacking ship formations so shouldn't be used to early to not lose your teeth for 10 whole minutes! You want them healthy and availible to deal devastating dmg where it's needed WHEN it's needed! Your team is in trouble on a certain flank?A specific ship is dominating them? Take your Divebombers and teach him a lesson!It's worth loosing half your squad to win over a flank and later maybe even the whole game! A DD sneaked past your early spotting?You now know he is closer then comfort allows? SHOW HIM THOSE BOMBS and make him regret coming at you! These divebombers shine mid - endgame and will get you great dmg numbers and good performance!

The Hakuryo doesn't have this luxury. A pity.

 

So now that i talked about the planes let me adress the Midway and Hakuryo too.

 

Midway:

The midway is currently and will be, in my opinion even after UK CV release King of t10 Cv. Midway has all the tools for a successful CV game. Hard hitting rockets towards Cruisers and BBs (up to 10k dmg if lined up well), amazing torpedos, 6 of them and easy to drop and aim! Greatest divebombers, all around anti ship tools with very impressive dmg and fire stacking! Amazing plane health overall and great AA for self defense. The perfect CV.

It shines early to endgame if played properly.

 

Hakuryo:

Possibly the worst t10 CV if nothing changes with it's current balancing.

Rockets are weaker and not as relyable as Midways. Torpedos are hard to use, they hit harder but to hit them is an entirely different story. Way to hard to use up to borderline unuseable. You will hit ships who don't know how to turn correctly but at least you will make them turn which is a + i guess.

Divebombers are very unrelyable. Depend on perfect lineup. Rng is not good at all. They are cruiser killers, dealing up to 24k damage if aimed properly but VERY inconsistently. DO NOTHING to DDs and only seldom relyable unrepairable dmg to BBs due to citadels but even then it's simply to hard to get the aiming right if a BB is actively turning. If the bomb doesn't hit the middle of the ship or hits a turret you won't get that citadel and mostly overpens or bounces.

This ship can not defend itself against DDs, is way to team dependent and can only aquire meaningful dmg via torp drops which are hard to hit. If your topedo planes are shot down only rocket planes are left as a real option and Divebombers are downtime fodder.

 

 

Autopilot (Consumeable automatation):

They did great stuff here. The autopilot, once you figure it out is easy to use and fast in responding.

You can reverse at the start of the match.

Set multiple waypoints

Quickly let it turn to avoid torps without loosing control over your squadron

You can tell it to turn instead of reverse with setting waypoints correctly and be very flexible.

In one of my Kraken hakuryo games i managed a DOUBLE STRIKE by killing enemy Khaba with rockets while RAMMING THE ENEMY MIDWAY WINNING THE GAME.

To all who dismiss the autopilot, give it another try, learn how it works and stop complaining just because it didn't behave correctly the first time. learn to use it.

 

The automatic consumeable usage lets me concentrate FULLY on squadron control. NEVER have i felt the need or want to control them myself. Thex let me play my game to the fullest and i felt never handycapped because of them activating possibly early.

CV snipes are mostly stupid in the current state of CV and if you are setting afire by SHIPS you did something wrong and will most likely die in the next 30seconds anyway. No manuel usage can safe you here. position correctly and the fires set by suicidal enemy rocket planes get taken care of while you farm those enemy BBs for juicy dmg! Amazing!

 

 

Since the rework random games shift into a new meta which is now way more team game dependent and therefore in my opinion far more awesome! The choices you make feel jore impactful in CV games. You feel your good plays way more and also feel your misplays! Now is the time to use your head when making decisions planning beforehand as a CV, DD or other surface ship player. Each of us has a much more pronounced role assigned to each other. Less chaotic and more organised. Communication is key! It feels amazing.

 

 

Thank you for your effort Wargaming and i hope you will balance and tweak as necessarry until everyone is somewhat satisfied!

 

Do you write novels by chance?

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For all your DD bluff OP, you have played about 250 battles since patch give or take and less than 20 in a DD?  DD's are some of your most played ships so you are obviously playing DDs less?  Yep, the patch hasn't affected you :Smile_trollface:

 

edit - oops, didn't count your shimi dd....apologies :Smile_hiding: But still playing less DD.

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31 minutes ago, Zuihou25 said:

How do DDs adjust to this? Many DDs heavily dislike this change since it opens them up to be fired upon by the enemy team while being permaspotted but is this really the case if you play your DD correctly in this meta shift?

How do DDs adjust? Well, in most cases, they play something else!

 

Basically, with a few (now well-known) exceptions, DDs no longer play as DDs when there is a half-competent CV present; 'playing your DD correctly' means playing like a sub-par light cruiser now. What's the point of that?

 

If you want to play an exciting DD now, you have to pick one of the few with credible AA, in case you get a CV in the game. If there is no CV, you play much as you would have before; if there is a CV, you spend the early part of the game trying to ambush his planes, whilst not getting sunk by the enemy team now that you're spotted the whole time.

 

My feeling is that gameplay for a select few DDs has actually improved since the rework (no, really - the AA DDs now have a much more varied time of it); for the rest, it's relegated them to being cr4p light cruisers if a CV is present. If I only had IJN torp boats, I'd be colossally pi$$ed off with the game at the moment; as it is, my Gearing, Kidd, Sims, and Groz are getting quite a lot of work, with almost everything else staying in port.

 

It's not that it's impossible for the non-AA DDs to adapt to the new meta, it's that doing so is really rather tedious for the significant majority of them - why bother wasting your time; why not do something else less boring instead?

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Vor 1 Minute, bushwacker001 sagte:

For all your DD bluff, you have played about 250 battles since patch give or take and less than 20 in a DD?  DD's are some of your most played ships so you are obviously playing DDs less?  Yep, the patch hasn't affected you :Smile_trollface:

i played DDs as many times as i stated, many games have been done in training rooms too to test out Cv capabilities whilr i control my DD to see how planespotting works, to figure out when to enable, disable AA and how to correctly dodge incoming attack runs. I am focusing on playing CV brcause i don't feel the need to improve on DD at the moment and would rather learn more tricks and get better with CV play. I challenge you to try and kill my DD in 10 minutes with so called op rocket planes if you like. Maybe i can prove to you that way that i know what i'm talking about ;)

 

@Verblonde

 

if you feel it's boring to adjust as a DD with the current state of CVs then that's on you. I find it quite exciting since it creates new worries and challenges while giving me the benefit of better spotting information for myself to plan my route as a DD more. Will the enemy CV spot me or not?Can i make the enemy CV waste his time on me? Am i in range of enemy cruisers while potentially being CV spotted, do i have a way out?It makes me think more which s more fun to me.

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1 minute ago, Zuihou25 said:

 I challenge you to try and kill my DD in 10 minutes with so called op rocket planes if you like. Maybe i can prove to you that way that i know what i'm talking about ;)

 

I already edited my post rather than delete to show I am a knob now and again :Smile_Default: Sorry can't help you in the challenge as CV play bores me sh1tless.

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Vor 1 Minute, bushwacker001 sagte:

I already edited my post rather than delete to show I am a knob now and again :Smile_Default: Sorry can't help you in the challenge as CV play bores me sh1tless.

Hey, no need to delete it, i didn't feel offended or anything and you should be able to state your opinion as you like! This is an open discussion after all so sorry if i made you feel that way and thanks for your contribution to the discussion!

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59 minutes ago, Zuihou25 said:

The meta shift has enforced more reliance on teamplay. Everyones AA contributes in one way or another. DDs are exciting to play now (for me)

 

Teamplay is good and DD's are fun to play....

 

 

chris rock wtf.jpg

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4 minutes ago, Zuihou25 said:

Hey, no need to delete it, i didn't feel offended or anything and you should be able to state your opinion as you like! This is an open discussion after all so sorry if i made you feel that way and thanks for your contribution to the discussion!

No you didn't mate....I miscounted but as a few had already read my original post I thought it wouldn't look good to delete it so added the edit. :Smile_Default: But I get your drift on DD's to be honest although not played them much since patch except in ranked.... the few games in random were pretty Ok with in one battle with 2 CV's a side (Kami) I never got spotted once, mostly down to rubbish CVs though.

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Vor 1 Minute, bushwacker001 sagte:

No you didn't mate....I miscounted but as a few had already read my original post I thought it wouldn't look good to delete it so added the edit. :Smile_Default: But I get your drift on DD's to be honest although not played them much since patch except in ranked the few games in random were pretty Ok with in one battle with 2 CV's a side (Kami) I never got spotted once, mostly down to rubbish CVs though.

Yes! The skill of the enemy CV plays a huge role in the spotting of DDs! I would certainly start searching for you if i haven't gotten any update on your location in the last 3 minutes!

I am sure it will over time get harder for DDs when average CV players get more map awareness but i'm also sure that DD players if commited will find ways around it!

With the upcoming spotting nerfs that WG hinted at it will probably be more fair for the average DD player to who just doesn't have the time or capability to adjust!

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3 minutes ago, Zuihou25 said:

if you feel it's boring to adjust as a DD with the current state of CVs then that's on you. I find it quite exciting since it creates new worries and challenges while giving me the benefit of better spotting information for myself to plan my route as a DD more. Will the enemy CV spot me or not?Can i make the enemy CV waste his time on me? Am i in range of enemy cruisers while potentially being CV spotted, do i have a way out?It makes me think more which s more fun to me.

You're over-simplifying what I said: it's desperately boring as *some DDs* to adjust, and anecdotal evidence suggests this is not a minority opinion. Assuming the CV is competent, and the enemy ships can shoot straight, IJN torp boats are largely worthless against a CV, all the 'think more' in the world can't fix that, unless you hide under your friendly cruisers' AA umbrella and spam torps at range - that is flat-out dull.

 

If you are a CV, it is spectacularly easy to close down, and kill even something Olympic-standard sneaky like a Kagero: fly in the vague direction you think he'll be (if he's hiding in a 'blob' who cares anyway - he's effectively a mission kill already); wait until he spots you, and your 'spotted' warning goes off - you now know he's in your proximity; circle until he's actually acquired; fire rockets or whatever, if you fancy a laugh, but this isn't about killing him directly - your team can now blow him out of the water, as he's defenceless against your spotting (you can even drop a fighter on him if you want to go off and do something else). Job done. The Kagero (or whatever) isn't wasting anyone's time, he's just cannon-fodder.

 

Why you're over-simplifying what I said is that I've been having a great time adjusting to the new play; the problem (for most players who don't have the ridiculous ship collection that I do) is that the number of DDs that are suitable for the new meta - as it stands - is small, they benefit disproportionately from having good captains, many are higher tier, and at least two are premiums (three, if you count Black, but mine isn't configured for AA at the moment).

 

My feeling is that it sucks if the only DD players who can now really enjoy themselves are only those with very specific ships (some paid for) - just because I happen to have those ships, and have been enjoying myself immensely in them, doesn't mean I should take the view of "I'm all right, Jack - tough tits for everyone else"...

 

 

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@Verblonde

I am not oversimplifying at all, just stating how it feels for me and as proof that you are wrong in what you are saying about IJN torp boats i can upload my shimakaze replays for you where i use 8km torps and dominate cv games with my shima, leading the exp board, killing BBs, spotting for my team and winning. One of them in a 2 CV game.

 

But what you are doing is making up scenarios that in the way you state them can't even happen. The detected on your plane happens because the cruiser i'm hiding under is spotting you not hinting at all that i am there because you see only the cruiser that is spotting your plane. You flying into said cruiser AA to get ONE rocket strike on a potential DD that COULD be hiding there off is beyond stupid since i might not even be there. You flying in the general direction where you would assume me to be as a DD still doesn't guarantee that your assumption is right and next to all of what you are saying, most CVs are not unicums and only select few even bring the map awareness to the table to be able to come to the conclusion to spend your precious time searching for a hard to find DD while yo could be doing dmg in he meantime.

It's the DDs fault if he gets planespotted in a situation where he can get focused by "The whole enemy team" and if you can't acept that fact then you are simply neither interested or willing to adapt at all.

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1 hour ago, Zuihou25 said:

The meta shift has enforced more reliance on teamplay. Everyones AA contributes in one way or another.

You mean blobbing.

 

And I've seen a lot of games, where one team just stays in their blob all game somewhere in the middle of nowhere, and the other one has all three caps. Fun and engaging gameplay.

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Vor 4 Minuten, Saiyko sagte:

You mean blobbing.

 

And I've seen a lot of games, where one team just stays in their blob all game somewhere in the middle of nowhere, and the other one has all three caps. Fun and engaging gameplay.

 

That is because some players are more helpless then others. People still need to get used to it. CV rework dropped recently, you can't expect all players to immediatly be on the same page and some never will be ever. It's not the CV reworks fault but the individual players who feels hopeless and doesn't know how to find a solution for himself. I'm talking about below average players. You will not see unicums or above average players blob up!

And blobbing isn't even happening that often anymore proving that people started adapting!

I had some amazing games with amazing teamplay happening. Sorry if you experienced only bad games

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1 hour ago, Zuihou25 said:

The rockets are seen as overpowered all powerful spotting machines for no reason. If they hit you in a dd you take at most 4k salvos if you even attempt to dodge. I SAID at most.

Didn't read it all, you haven't a clue, it is clear here. I took 9k in a DD inside of a minute, unlucky roll most likely but 9k, unable to do anything about it at the start of the game, great fun, great rework.

 

Go play a DD against a CV player that has a clue, not in training rooms. 

 

While I am at it, 19k from rockets near the end of a match sailing a Zao, that was after just fighting of dive bomber attack that did 8.5k while the defensive fire was running less than a minute earlier. Nothing I can really do when my AA has been stripped all game from AA mounts being destroyed while the CV sits at the back playing safe not really losing planes if he has a clue. 

 

Suppose this rework should be called, bend over and grab your ankles for a lot of ships in the game. 

 

The person who decided to allow double CV's at high tier need to be removed from making any further decision in this game. With planes able to spot and attack every minute over and over again what little strategy that could be had in the game goes out the window. BB's are forever trying to dodge attacks, cruisers can't get into positions and DD are just useless because they are spotted and have to dodge incoming plane attacks, over and over again.   

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2 minutes ago, Zuihou25 said:

The detected on your plane happens because the cruiser i'm hiding under is spotting you not hinting at all that i am there because you see only the cruiser that is spotting your plane.

I don't really care about a DD hiding under a cruiser - like I said, he's effectively a mission kill, and would have been more useful if he'd taken a cruiser instead of the DD. A DD hiding like that can be largely ignored until his bigger friends have been dealt with.

 

The scenario I describe applies in almost any circumstance where a DD is playing as a DD should (which also is what makes DDs exciting) i.e. not blobbing.

 

One has to assume basic competence on the part of the enemy, regardless of the situation often being to the contrary; why would I bother taking out a Kagero (say) on the off-chance the enemy CV will be hopeless, when I can take a Kidd/Benson which can function fully as a DD should, regardless of the opposition (perhaps even better, as stealth was never their strong suit)?

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@Verblonde

 

It all depends on the priorities you set and how the individual player handles the situation.

Since the meta changed "playing as a dd should" also changes. You can't play DD as before the rework anymore. Change is required and if you don't want the change or don't commit to it and die to the enemy CV it's your fault alone and noone elses.

If you get into a CV game you have to adapt now. Let the enemy DD do the blunder, let them die to your teams CV first, then make your move. Play differently. If it's boring to do that then change up the shipclass from time to time. Noone is forcing you to do things that bore you!

Wargaming implemented this rework. You obviously and many others dislike it but that doesn't make it any less true that you have options in adapting your playstyle. Even if it is, for you and many others a boring one.

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1 minute ago, Zuihou25 said:

You obviously and many others dislike it but that doesn't make it any less true that you have options in adapting your playstyle.

Apparently, reading is hard: I've said, more than once, that I've been having rather a good time with the rework (although I haven't played them against real people yet, the CVs themselves are vaguely entertaining to play, at least so far - they may get boring with time, of course), because adapting has been an interesting challenge, and I *have* adapted - surprisingly successfully (by my pitiful standards).

 

However, the *way* I adapted was to drop perhaps two-thirds of my ships from rotation, and (because I'm not a sociopath, that I know about) I'm aware that a lot of players simply can't do that, which strikes me as pretty poor. It also strikes me as pretty poor that 'adapt even if it's boring' (paraphrasing) is the best you can offer, but that's apparently okay as you're happy?

 

My final opinion on the rework is yet to be formed - we still don't know what the final state will look like after all - but I suspect the verdict will not be positive *if* a significant chunk of one of the three most important classes remains unplayable or unfun for the bulk of players, and telling said players that they're wrong because they don't want to play (effectively) a lame cruiser is really not a good look.

 

BTW to @ somebody, type the @ symbol first, and various names should appear in a drop-down, with the options reducing as you type the rest of the handle; click on the one you want, and you should get a functioning mention of that player...

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The CV play and the rest of the game are like two completely different games.

 

Stopped giving a damn about what aircraft do, cause there's usually not much you can do about it anyway. And driving a CV, stopped giving a damn about what other ships are doing, cause you cannot really carry games anymore, hence what the rest of the team does, usually decides your fate.

 

And after the "permaspotting" has been "introduced", the game is getting more and more like a "twitch"-shooter.... Making things not really fun anymore.

 

DD's can hide behind islands with CL's nowadays, and just hope a CV doesn't decide to make life hard on you, or try and do what was done before (and CV's WILL make life hard on you).

 

CV's.... their gameplay is even more the same.... over and over and over again.... and with what I mentioned earlier, downright boring. Fly a bit, die, select new battle, and not give a damn about your score.

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@ Verblonde

Thank you Verblonde for contributing to the discussion and sorry if i misread some of what you said. I type on mobile so sadly i never noticed the dropdown in time but now i know, thanks for the advice!

 

I get what you mean and WG already announced a potential spotting nerf incoming! So i think after that is implemented i believe it will be easier for DDs again!

I hope you can find some fun regardless in the current state and maybe try again taking out some of the ships you dropped!

Just try to approach it a bit differently and maybe you will be pleasantly suprised! If not meeting a unicum CV that is :D

 

 

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57 minutes ago, Bear_Necessities said:

Teamplay is good and DD's are fun to play....

 

 

chris rock wtf.jpg

Depends on play style. I personally prefer to have a teammate nearby when playing with a DD.

 

"Lone wolf" tactics may be obsolete, if the CV is present, and you go straight for capture point, or other point of interest...

If you put yourself somewhere where normally not expected, you can survive.

Also, do you care much when teammates in random battles complain about... your play style? :Smile_unsure:

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Here are 2 screenshots i took of a current reddit thread. One shows one players stats and how they improved in their DDs since the CV rework with them adapting, the other screenshot shows that opinions are beginning to shift even on reddit which is mostly more negative then these official forums.

To me it just looks like once you give it a try it's not that bad and on top of that being smart about it can not you some awesome stat gains too it seems ;)

Screenshot_20190220-071322.jpg

Screenshot_20190220-071304.jpg

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