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CV's in game - toggle "in" or "none"

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With all the aggravation revolving around the CV update and problems that are involved with it, why cant WG simply add for those that like playing CV's the option to ("Include" CV's in game or toggle "No" CV's in game) - that way you please both sides, seems a simple solution to all the present woes - or am I missing something?

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That does not work.

You are missing the fact that many players will use that function simply to avoid one type of enemy, no matter how well balanced it might be. You could just as well add a no DD, or no CA, or a no BB option and players will use them for the same reason.

 

Splitting the playerbase is not a solution.

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I had my opinion :

 

Divid the MM on 2 bloc : No CV and CV allow

 

All AA powerfull ship can/will play with CVs : Nice MM for CVs (full Grozo/Mino/Worce)

The other MM is for all players who build none AA

 

And if not enough players you send BOTs for complete team ? You realy whant It, It's a terrible idea (like the french DD) !

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1 hour ago, Egoleter said:

That does not work.

You are missing the fact that many players will use that function simply to avoid one type of enemy, no matter how well balanced it might be. You could just as well add a no DD, or no CA, or a no BB option and players will use them for the same reason.

 

Splitting the playerbase is not a solution.

I don't agree and also think that having the "no CV" option for random is probably the best quick fix WG can do right now.

Because, right now they are losing their playerbase and soon there won't be much to split anyways.

Just check the latest figures for the EU server (reminder: 0.8.0 went live January 30th or 31st, I think):

image.png.eea0724472443f093ecc60a16dd43009.png

 

image.png.c48c9f435be0b9c52c8b53016e726207.png

 

Why this is not comparable to no DD, CA or BB option?

How many threads have u seen on the forum on people complaining on DDs, CAs or BBs as a class?

And to make things worse: CVs are not problem for and by themselves right now as they have literally ruined gameplay for another class, too: DDs.

 

I do appreciate WG's efforts to improve CV gameplay as it rly needed some tweaking.

But unfortunately, they rly blew it with 0.8.0 and made things much, much worse than before.

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Players
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You didn't think this through. If this was an option, the ones wanting to play with CVs would also have to be the carriers. The other ones would most likely be AA cruisers. After a few games,  CLs would be by themselves. CVs are spotters and BB hunters, they don't like to throw away their planes for nothing.  They have taken such a devastating nerf - insane AA - fragile aircraft -  almost harmless weaponry and a massive cost increase for playing them  - it's a miracle they are even present anymore.   

CVs haven't ruined DD gameplay - on the contrary. If these two classes work together life for DDs is much easier.  There is nothing like taking a free  cap, spotted by your CV, which keeps you safe while doing so. If  DDs and CVs coordinate their play they can easily dominate the map.  This - of course - requires team play, a concept unheard of, by a lot of players.

I play WG games since 2011 and am still baffled by the lack of communication in randoms.  

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36 minutes ago, OnceBittenTwiceShy said:

CVs haven't ruined DD gameplay - on the contrary. If these two classes work together life for DDs is much easier.  There is nothing like taking a free  cap, spotted by your CV, which keeps you safe while doing so. If  DDs and CVs coordinate their play they can easily dominate the map.  This - of course - requires team play, a concept unheard of, by a lot of players.

I play WG games since 2011 and am still baffled by the lack of communication in randoms.  

Completely wrong.

CVs and DDs could have coordinated their play only prior to 0.8.0.

Right now it's not possible at all since there's nothing a CV can do to protect a DD from the enemy planes (pls don't even mention the consumable since it's broken 100%).

Right now DDs tend to loiter in the back, with the rest of the fleet, to avoid getting perma spotted and deleted in the first 2 minutes of a battle. Basically, they aren't doing anything they are supposed to do: CAP (or deny CAP) and spot. Torping? Only if u are an Asashio (but u will hardly hit anything from 20km)….

 

p.s.

I have to note u are not a really good DD player urself, so I can understand that the 0.8.0. changes didn't affect ur gaming experience to a high degree.

image.thumb.png.8930aef38ef87e4860aff799d4d5832f.png

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I agree to the split if the simplistic game mode  - no CV, no submarines no complex weaponry - is awarded with much lower XP and credits to reflect its simplicity. It is in fact like Tier 1-3 gameplay.

 

The more complex mode with CV  and Submarines and more complex weapons can then be awarded like random is now as a reward for using your brains and your skills  and have flexible tactics. 

 

For all i care sea mines ( there are some in an Operation ) and land based medium/heavy bomber formations ( there are some  AI ones in an Operation ) could be used also to spice up things a little so it is almost like the real seabattles and real world war(s). In fact player controlled torpedo boats ( there are some AI ones  in an Operation ) are missing too....

 

I know this will not be.....for i know console players are a younger public which in general do not like very complex games. Anticipating on this WG made their changes to ( complex ) RTS CV controls. I like this game, but for me it would be better if more and more type weapons, aircraft and ships were added. Funny to see there is such resistance against such things from other type players that seem to be the majority.

 

 

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I just remembered. There is a no (enemy) CV mode. It's called co-op battles. No pesky planes will harm you there (until the time Wargaming managed to reprogram their bots).

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You are asking for a No CV mode.

What about me asking for a No DD mode, while I am playing my Battleships?

 

Can we have no ConQ mode?

Or may be no wooster mode?..

 

It is not logical to create that choice.

What do you think will happen If it goes live?

 

Do you think anybody other than CV captains and people with plane killing missions will chose that?

Nope, even the desmo captains will not, because It would be so much better to spec the desmo for survivability, put hydro instead of DefAA and go into battle If you know there won't be any CVs.

 

On the other hand,

Those numbers for players..

 

Just a piece of info,

The player number trends has to be observed quarter by quarter and compared against the same quarter on last year.

That way you can have meainingful numbers.

Basically,

Jan-Feb-March.. 2019 numbers will be compared to 2018.. then WG can see what is going on..

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I have been playing a lot less since carrier rework "landed". 

Loads of issues with balance and just about every ship class unhappy even the CV players

Constant "hotfixes" leading to costs in real money for respeccing captain points and ship modules. :Smile-angry:

At the moment I am playing a handful of my 150+ ships with a handful of fully specced out captains, great fun :Smile_sad: 

Yes, if I could exclude carriers from my games i would 

 

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1 hour ago, Excavatus said:

 

 

Can we have no ConQ mode?

 

 

This broken HE spamming ship reminds me why the CC rework won t ever be fixed.

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1 minute ago, _CR0ME_ said:

This broken HE spamming ship reminds me why the CC rework won t ever be fixed.

I is the Conq gimmick 

I accidentaly started i game in it a month or so back, only ever played it a handful of times (9 games total) so I aint very good with it,  I got 15 fires 159k damge 4 kills

Rather than moving its citadel why not nerf the fire chance and give it slightly better AP, it already has very low HP for a tier 10, yeah super heal but u gotta live to use it

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, Excavatus said:

You are asking for a No CV mode.

What about me asking for a No DD mode, while I am playing my Battleships?

 

Can we have no ConQ mode?

Or may be no wooster mode?..

 

It is not logical to create that choice.

What do you think will happen If it goes live?

 

Do you think anybody other than CV captains and people with plane killing missions will chose that?

Nope, even the desmo captains will not, because It would be so much better to spec the desmo for survivability, put hydro instead of DefAA and go into battle If you know there won't be any CVs.

In how many battles prior to 0.8.0 u encountered a CV?

Especially at T8+? 1 in 10? 1 in 15? Even less?

In how many battles prior to 0.8.0 u encountered 2 CVs at T8-? 1 in 10? 1 in 15? Even less?

Prior to 0.8.0 this was in fact a NO CV game since only 4% of the players used them (per WG itself). So that was the "going live" case and people liked it that way. Only WG knows why they decided to change that (and in the end for the worse).

 

9 hours ago, Excavatus said:

On the other hand,

Those numbers for players..

 

Just a piece of info,

The player number trends has to be observed quarter by quarter and compared against the same quarter on last year.

That way you can have meainingful numbers.

Basically,

Jan-Feb-March.. 2019 numbers will be compared to 2018.. then WG can see what is going on..

Just wait for the ranked season to end and then u will have the real trends....

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9 hours ago, Excavatus said:

Jan-Feb-March.. 2019 numbers will be compared to 2018.. then WG can see what is going on..

But, do you think they will take any notice?

 

I don't and numbers are already down... all this for less than 10% of the player base... good economics (Not)

 

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13 hours ago, LiddleTowers said:

In how many battles prior to 0.8.0 u encountered a CV?

Especially at T8+? 1 in 10? 1 in 15? Even less?

In how many battles prior to 0.8.0 u encountered 2 CVs at T8-? 1 in 10? 1 in 15? Even less?

Prior to 0.8.0 this was in fact a NO CV game since only 4% of the players used them (per WG itself). So that was the "going live" case and people liked it that way. Only WG knows why they decided to change that (and in the end for the worse).

 

Just wait for the ranked season to end and then u will have the real trends....

First of all, before the rework, It was 1 CV per match after tier 6 with a hard cap.

So 0 double CVs happened on high tiers.

 

And you are mistaken, even though there weren't too many CVs, It wasn't because of a CHOICE people clicked before hitting battle.

If you give people the ability to exclude CVs in their matches, everyone apart from the CV players and plane kill mission guys, will do that, and that will probably the 80% of the player base.

what do you think will happen then?

another point is, If you give a player to chose no CV game,

what stops me from wanting no DD game?

 

Don't get me wrong,

I am on the side of no CVs, If you leave it to me I'd remove them.

and I think neither the prework nor the afterwork CVs are good for the game and balanced.

But keeping CVs in the game and giving people the ability of excluding CVs in their battle, by far the most ridiculous idea.

 

on the other hand,

you may be right about the ranked season and player numbers.

A lot of players from my own clan, only playing ranked since the last 3 weeks.

But the situation is improving,

yesterday I played 22 games and there were CVs in only 4 or 5 of them..

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32 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

First of all, before the rework, It was 1 CV per match after tier 6 with a hard cap.

So 0 double CVs happened on high tiers.

 

And you are mistaken, even though there weren't too many CVs, It wasn't because of a CHOICE people clicked before hitting battle.

If you give people the ability to exclude CVs in their matches, everyone apart from the CV players and plane kill mission guys, will do that, and that will probably the 80% of the player base.

what do you think will happen then?

another point is, If you give a player to chose no CV game,

what stops me from wanting no DD game?

 

Don't get me wrong,

I am on the side of no CVs, If you leave it to me I'd remove them.

and I think neither the prework nor the afterwork CVs are good for the game and balanced.

But keeping CVs in the game and giving people the ability of excluding CVs in their battle, by far the most ridiculous idea.

 

on the other hand,

you may be right about the ranked season and player numbers.

A lot of players from my own clan, only playing ranked since the last 3 weeks.

But the situation is improving,

yesterday I played 22 games and there were CVs in only 4 or 5 of them..

I know double CVs were only possible up to T6. But how often did it happen?

As for no CV game vs. no BB, CA or DD is not comparable imho since u don't see nearly as many people complaining on BB, CA or DD gameplay as they do now on CVs.

And if they do it's about particular ships and their features, not the class as a whole.

 

I didn't say removing CVs was a great idea. U are right, it's a ridiculous one. But sadly and thanks solely to WG's efforts, it's probably the best thing they can do right now to save their playerbase. Or at least it's most consistent part: grown up men (with cash!) who used to play the game for years and regularly (including myself, u can easily check my stats). Right now game is designed for 10yo kids. And I remember my son when he was a 10yo. For how long do you think did ANY game keep his attention back then?

 

And don't get me wrong: I'm not against CVs and I've played some CV games myself, too. But (like many other players) I prefer them the way they were: RTS like.

And yes, some tweaks and balancing were definitely needed. 

For starters, they probably should have been limited to T+-1 and not +-2 like the other ships above T4.

Also, fighter strafing function should have been revised.

But other than that there were no major flaws with it. And unlike some people here claimed: it was rly NOT easy to one-shot delete any ship (I truly believe that  "devastating strike" comparision between classes and vs. number of played games can easlly show that).

Except, and like I said in an another post: it was just not for everyone. And WG should have never tried making it accessible to everyone. I myself didn't like playing CVs at T8 and above as I wasn't rly good at it and there were many people out there who were much better at it than me. But I never desired for WG to change that so that I can be good at it, too. That was simply my limit, I accepted it and was happy with it. Like most of the players were.

 

p.s.

Thank you for constructive and non-abusive reply. So far people who acted on WG's behalf (or at least pretended to be doing so) only made things worse with ther aggresive and even abusive behaviour.

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1 minute ago, LiddleTowers said:

Thank you for constructive and non-abusive reply. So far people who acted on WG's behalf (or at least pretended to be doing so) only made things worse with ther aggresive and even abusive behaviour. 

First of all, If I am not writing in RED, that means I am acting on my behalf :)
But thanks, I usually try to keep things civil...

 

2 minutes ago, LiddleTowers said:

As for no CV game vs. no BB, CA or DD is not comparable imho since u don't see nearly as many people complaining on BB, CA or DD gameplay as they do now on CVs.

 

The problem with the idea is, not the numbers of people complaining about a particular type of ship.

The idea is, with the option of "Chosing non CV battles before battle" give people a right to chose.

What prevents some BB captains to ask for no DD battles because they can say, "But you did it for CVs???"

 

There are 2 types of MMs in multiplayer world,

Random or SkillBased (leagues)

 

WG goes with random, and random must stay as random as possible.

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After taking a mini break and then playing some ranked for a bit (until it got salty and I thought Feck this crapfest),  I then tried 15 or so randoms over friday/sat/sun. I have decided that actually, it is not just the CV rework that is the problem.

It is:

  • camping.
  • hiding.
  • timidity.
  • not looking at the minimap.
  • damage farming.
  • DD's avoiding caps.
  • 43% win rate players in tier 10 ships.
  • Tier 8 is shat on remorselessly.
  • Tier 6 is in a bad spot too.
  • Cruisers are BB's XP pinata's
  • DD's have radar and air spotting constantly.
  • Excessive radar.
  • lemming trains.
  • bad positioning of players.
  • bad angling of players.
  • yolo'ing and being idiotic.
  • CV spotting from air is broken.
  • Divisions breaking the MM and skewing the allocation of skill between teams.
  • OP ships that only dedicated clans can earn via clan battles, further skewing the gulf between bad/average and the rest concerning combined win rates between the opposing teams
  • one sided battles (50% or so now).
  • CV's not countering each other, hence planes roam the map unopposed by air combat.
  • Teams just chasing around the map ignoring everything, just to shooting at the enemy CV, while they actually lose.
  • Lack of any real content in the game, beyond a grind.
  • No interesting missions.
  • No interesting operations.
  • Ranked is now salty AF, generally caused by players who will not get beyond rank 12. They drag other players down with them. You rank out by riding the crest of the initial wave. If you fall off the wave, it is down to RNG if you can break out of the quagmire of the middle ranks and get to 5, where the bad players are fewer.

 

A lot of the above existed before the CV rework.

 

Having a switch that you toggle to chose the classes you face would kill the game. Fix the problem, not create another. We actually need a variety of classes to keep the game fresh and fair (this is coming from a player who thinks that CV's are a parasitic class) that used to be broken AF in the right players hands, to now, downright annoying. But I live in hope that they can be made to 'fit' the game. In real life, CV's changed naval warfare completely, so with the characteristics they possess, it is hard to make them fit into the game.

 

This game used to be fun and interesting. Weekly missions, ship reward missions etc etc. Please fix some of the problems, then the others are tolerable.

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T7 - 4 CV's - our team shot down 145 planes (that's really realistic isn't it ) and that's only our side!!! - still lost - what a total waste of time / game with just shooting down planes being the main game play.

 

Would I have chosen to toggle 'No' CV's if I had the choice? - dammed right I would and so would 90% of the players playing that game when listening to their comments during the game.

 

No, I wouldn't expect to have an option regarding what other classes of ships to include or not include - just the CV's in their current state (if they are to remain that way?) - going forward and enhancing the game is one thing  - but making a total arse of it is another.

 

 

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