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sgtmarple

CV- Fighter Planes

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WG can you please take a closer look at Firghter Planes? This is are just rediculous right now. I always only use them to keep a DD spottet, they are a waste to be used to protect your own mates or deny the enemy CV an area. I could outrun Ranger Fighters with my Ryujo Bombers without them even take a shot.

 

- Reduce their spotting ability

-Reduce their time before they aggro from 8 seconds to 4 seconds

-Widen their patrol range slightly

- Make them take off from the CV and fly towards the patrol area, however they are immune to AA till they start their patrol.

- Make their patrol time  longer than one minute

- If their patrol ends , they fly back to the CV

- Give us more charges to compensate.

- Let them reassume their patrol after an engagement against the enemy

 

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44 minutes ago, sgtmarple said:

WG can you please take a closer look at Firghter Planes? This is are just rediculous right now. I always only use them to keep a DD spottet, they are a waste to be used to protect your own mates or deny the enemy CV an area. I could outrun Ranger Fighters with my Ryujo Bombers without them even take a shot.

 

- Reduce their spotting ability

-Reduce their time before they aggro from 8 seconds to 4 seconds

-Widen their patrol range slightly

- Make them take off from the CV and fly towards the patrol area, however they are immune to AA till they start their patrol.

- Make their patrol time  longer than one minute

- If their patrol ends , they fly back to the CV

- Give us more charges to compensate.

- Let them reassume their patrol after an engagement against the enemy

 

Yup, they are Pants.

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1 hour ago, sgtmarple said:

WG can you please take a closer look at Firghter Planes? This is are just rediculous right now. I always only use them to keep a DD spottet, they are a waste to be used to protect your own mates or deny the enemy CV an area. I could outrun Ranger Fighters with my Ryujo Bombers without them even take a shot.

 

- Reduce their spotting ability - it contributes a lot in defending/taking caps by allied ships being able to help kill the capping enemy DD. After unloading rockets aircraft fly off and lose the DD out of sight. Fighter consumable can prevent that untill rocket fighters have returnend. For CV and the allied ships in range that is very usefull against enemy DD capping early in the match. 

 

If nerfed or reduced it may improve DD enjoyablity...but that is if early capping is a strategy WG does not want to (somewhat) discourage. If you do not discourage it, it is mandatory and all matches are fought exactly the same way. That is boring and reduces the amount of brilliant enjoyable matches. That is why i think DD spotting of all aircraft it's not an unwanted mechanic but a purposly built in ability.

 

-Reduce their time before they aggro from 8 seconds to 4 seconds - that would make them more useful to actually protect allies. Now i use them to get X number of planes killed missions or for spotting DD ^^

 

-Widen their patrol range slightly - Yes because now you step on the gas and outrun them easily. They also react very late which kills ships with very low hitpoints hoping to avoid destruction with that consumable. They are almost useles for their intended purpose.

 

- Make them take off from the CV and fly towards the patrol area, however they are immune to AA till they start their patrol.- Would take too long for emergency protecting allies - i am often too late as it is -   and require pre planning. Not against the pre planning, but then rather give us controllable air supriority fighters.

 

- Make their patrol time  longer than one minute - agree its much too short now. If i see a ship deploy that then i sometimes just circle untill it disappears.

 

- If their patrol ends , they fly back to the CV - would be nice visually but not add gameplay features. Still i would be in favor of that.

 

- Give us more charges to compensate. - I don't run out of them that much....so i have no opinion on this.

 

- Let them reassume their patrol after an engagement against the enemy - The don't do that ? Never had the time too actually see that happening....

 

 

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So far the only real use i found for them is
spotting
taking out enemy fighters

thats basicly it, they do F all against bombers, even if you happen to be in the right time at the right place to try to defend a friendly. it takes them so long to start attacking, that useally the enemy CV allready finished his first attack, presses F or boosts away and basicly loses only a few planes. ive tried plenty of times to stop an attack, just to see a full bomber squad jsut finishing their attack, and the fighters just circling around and watching the show only to realise when the bombers start to zoom up to RTB to start thinking about attacking them . . . . 

For the CV its not worth its wasting his time on trying to defend with a weapon that is not effective
And non CV players dont understand why the "noob CV" isnt protecting them . . . . . .

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@Beastofwar

- Spotting should be a player mechanic and not be part of another automated mechanic. Fighter spotting should be reduced but not taken away

- Yes, the time they take to become agressive is way , way to long.

- I would like to set the patrol area through the tactical map rather than fly there personally. That is why I think they should also take off from the CV and fly to the patrol area.

- You don't run out of them because there is almost no reason to use them other to place them obver Objectives to spot DDs

- Yes they always return , despawn after an attack, no matter if the attack was successfull. If I see a cruiser/BB having a byplane I just boost over them, they chase me a little then return to the ship an land and I can make my attack in peace. Same goes the other way arround, if you enter an enemy patrol area  as an cruiser/BB just start your byplane , let it be shot down and the Fighters will despawn

 

 

P.S. I don't care a damn if DD play is more enjoyable, burn them all I say :-D

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24 minutes ago, Gl0cK_17 said:


And non CV players dont understand why the "noob CV" isnt protecting them . . . . . .

 

In many end games where only 1 or 2 enemy CV remain and the allied ship(s) trying to get the decisive cap succumb to their relentless air attacks, i use the CV (ship)  itself to protect them.CV (enhanced) AA is no joke....Or cap myself if they die before i can get to them.

 

That is how useless the fighter consumable are to protect allies indeed.

 

Too bad you can't follow your allies closer with a CV without being shot at because of it's huge detection range.

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41 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

- Reduce their spotting ability - it contributes a lot in defending/taking caps by allied ships being able to help kill the capping enemy DD. After unloading rockets aircraft fly off and lose the DD out of sight. Fighter consumable can prevent that untill rocket fighters have returnend. For CV and the allied ships in range that is very usefull against enemy DD capping early in the match. 

So what you want is just an ability to permanently spot? Or have I interpreted that wrong. If I have ignore my next part.

Do you not think that's a bit broken? Not saying CV's shouldn't be a tool for spotting. But currently a CV can spot every ship on the map in less than 2 mins. It's stifling games. Teams are just blobbing and there is very little momentum currently in games. It's all about balance, and having all ships perma spotted is not balance. Remember if you in a CV are constantly spotting caps and DD's then the enemy CV is doing the same. No objectives will be taken. No teams will push. No games will have action or fun.

 

Why not have full time permanent radar and hydro. Same thing your asking for really, as it will be a way to spot caps at all times. Wait, when put like that it does sound broken...

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6 minutes ago, Bear_Necessities said:

So what you want is just an ability to permanently spot? Or have I interpreted that wrong. If I have ignore my next part.

Do you not think that's a bit broken? Not saying CV's shouldn't be a tool for spotting. But currently a CV can spot every ship on the map in less than 2 mins. It's stifling games. Teams are just blobbing and there is very little momentum currently in games. It's all about balance, and having all ships perma spotted is not balance. Remember if you in a CV are constantly spotting caps and DD's then the enemy CV is doing the same. No objectives will be taken. No teams will push. No games will have action or fun.

 

Why not have full time permanent radar and hydro. Same thing your asking for really, as it will be a way to spot caps at all times. Wait, when put like that it does sound broken...

 

I explained that i think WG did this on purpose, to make early caps more difficult. It was quite the mandatory thing to do, now it is not or risk a premature death. Although some AA type DD on their own, or supported DD by other ships can still attempt it.

 

If not made difficult to follow the exact same strategy every match, all matches would always follow the exact same events. That is boring and unattractive play. WG may be forcing players to invent new tricks, do something different. You have with your rediscovered long range torpedo's.....

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1 hour ago, Gl0cK_17 said:

thats basicly it, they do F all against bombers, even if you happen to be in the right time at the right place to try to defend a friendly. it takes them so long to start attacking, that useally the enemy CV allready finished his first attack, presses F or boosts away and basicly loses only a few planes. 

^ this

Fighters need to be changed in some sort, they are really not great/useful atm

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1 hour ago, Beastofwar said:

 

I explained that i think WG did this on purpose, to make early caps more difficult. It was quite the mandatory thing to do, now it is not or risk a premature death. Although some AA type DD on their own, or supported DD by other ships can still attempt it.

 

If not made difficult to follow the exact same strategy every match, all matches would always follow the exact same events. That is boring and unattractive play. WG may be forcing players to invent new tricks, do something different. You have with your rediscovered long range torpedo's.....

Look at us, being all civil and polite to each other. It feels odd :P

 

I see your point. But part of the rework was supposed to stop CV’s being able to perma spot and abuse that mechanic. CV’s still need a lot or work. Especially on balance and interaction with other classes.

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You might as well not have them tbh.
At least then friendlies would understand you can't help them out against bombers. And solve the perceived spotting issues as well.

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I feel the disbalance that made all of our playing experience more troubled - DD by being hunted, fleet by being spotted while barely on the move, CV being nerfed in accuracy, ship AA is felt to be weak - is in fact the removal of player controlled air supriority fighters.

 

We had them in RTS mode. They were the mechanic that kept too much bomber attacks on ships  in check, untill the other CV was deplaned. With them gone we suddenly have huge balance issues.

 

Should not ask WG to remove carriers. Rollback is not needed too. Should ask them to revisit their stance on bringing back controllable air supriority fighters to bring balance back in the air. Could even make a choice between rockets or air supriority fighter loadout so no additional modelling is needed. Could make the same strafing kind of attack they used to do, or what torpedo bombers do but then in air. It would be better to try balance that in effect, then the situation we have now.

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2 hours ago, Bear_Necessities said:

Look at us, being all civil and polite to each other. It feels odd :P

 

I see your point. But part of the rework was supposed to stop CV’s being able to perma spot and abuse that mechanic. CV’s still need a lot or work. Especially on balance and interaction with other classes.

All wg is forcing now is, all players sit behind islands wait for something getting spotted, spam as much as you can on it and hope you will get this one cap which now decides the game, or you re at least in the team which wins within 10 minutes.

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I get some kills with them. I have stopped trying to "take them" to useful locations, just drop them at a useful looking target of opportunity on my way somewhere.

 

I find them most reliably useful dropping them over my own CV, if I take off while under aerial attack myself.

 

I guess it's a good debate to have how powerful they SHOULD be. I expect WG will be conservative in buffing them because they explicitly wanted to remove the CV vs CV aerial game which was at the core of the old imbalance.

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Fighters need to be changed to guard friendly ships (and friendly ships only) not sea areas. If you could not drop them in random (or not so random) places they would neither be too good a spotter nor be useless in their main job which by all means should be fending of enemy attack planes. Make them stick to a friendly ship for their duration = many problems solved.

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25 minutes ago, jss78 said:

 I expect WG will be conservative in buffing them because they explicitly wanted to remove the CV vs CV aerial game which was at the core of the old imbalance.

 

The core of that imbalance was giving premium CV diffrent air combat abilities, and the difficult to understand and master fighter strafing attack that came on top of normal clicking on enemies to engage that you learned playing your first CV. Many players just did not know fighter strafing  existed because low tier CV did not have the ability.

 

I would say that is hardly a reason to remove all air combat. They tried it, but it seems it cannot be balanced by AA alone without ruiing the game in all sorts of manner.

 

The new air supriority fighters could have an attack that looks like the torpedo lineup aiming, but projected in the air to attack squadrons flying in/trough it. In fact much like the old fighter strafing ability. Beacuse there is no other mechnanic ( clicking on enemy aircraft is removed ) and torpedo bombing aiming works alomst  the same way players cannot be confused how it works.

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, iJoby said:

Yup, they are Pants.

and we've been telling WG their entire new fighter concept is rubbish ever since the very first bits of information about the rework - to zero avail...

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The sad truth is fighters are supposed to be garbage in the new CV iteration. WG wants CVs to focus on fighting surface ships, not air-to-air combat.

Fighters in testing were substantially more effective than they are currently. WG felt that was too much.

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In my opinion the fighters should be lethal 100%. If you made the mistake of putting your aircraft in the radius of action, you're dead! There should not be any way to escape fighters.

 

In the current state is a joke, practically useless to destroy aircraft, CV is the class that less aircraft knocks down during the battle when reality should be the one that does it the most. Now fighters are used to spot areas ...

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1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

The sad truth is fighters are supposed to be garbage in the new CV iteration. WG wants CVs to focus on fighting surface ships, not air-to-air combat.

Fighters in testing were substantially more effective than they are currently. WG felt that was too much.

 

But the consequence is almost everyone feels herassed by so much aircraft to a point where players quit playing the game or close their wallets ( or so they say ) CV are hit with the nerf bat even more to a point they become dissatisfied too, and ship AA is buffed but according to many is still too weak and almost everyone ends up dissapointed and/or angry !

 

Air-to-air combat would regulate the herassment that ships experience of bombers and attackers.

 

It must have had more to do with redesigning with the expected limited skill of much younger console players ( dumbing down complex simultanious operations ) in mind then it is actually a well thought out game mechanic. Not for nothing so many CV players wanted a rollback. None of those players was troubled by operating multiple bomber squadrons AND fight air to air combat AND operate their ship all simultaniously.

 

 

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Looks to me with them taking away the ability for CV to kill each others "limited planes" with fighter planes. That WG wanted to make changes to CV that meant they won't fight each other now,  but instead constantly badger ships to keep  them moving in the game "hence plane perma-spotting, and now having unlimited planes". Like they felt the game needed to be speeded up for some reason and using CV to achieve doing it. But in doing so they have broken the mechanics of the game, such as concealment now being worthless,. They know very well that CV plane spotting should be either nerfed big time, or removed completely from them spotting ships. But it won't happen I suspect, because they actually want all this perma-spotting to take place to speed the game up with all ship classes feeling like they can't stand still for long, or hide behind a island for long.

 

I think the plan all along has been to try and speed the game up and make it less static and more faster arcade like. So they think it will appeal to more users.

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8 minutes ago, MRGTB said:

Looks to me with them taking away the ability for CV to kill each others "before limited planes" with fighter planes. That WG wanted to make changes to CV that meant they won't fight each other now,  but instead constantly badger ships to keep  them moving in the game "hence plane perma-spotting". Like they felt the game needed to be speeded up for some reason and using CV to achieve doing it. But in doing so they have broken the mechanics of the game, such as concealment now being worthless,. They knew very well that CV plane spotting should be ethier nerfed big time, or removed completely from spotting ships. But it won't happen I suspect because they actually want all this perma-spotting to take place to speed the game up with all ship classes feeling they can't stand still for long, or hide behind a island for long.

 

But what you think should be prevented is happening now : if there are mountain islands many go hide behind it because of the incoming fire after being spotted. If there are no such islands they go camp in the back. If a whole group does that it is even quite difficult to attack them with aircraft, so it may be experienced as a good tactic as long as they can still prevent caps being taken.

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Well with unlimited planes on CV. What is stopping a CV that spots a Cruisers camping behind an Island from focusing all his "unlimited" planes non stop on it until he moves. What does a CV care how good his AA is? He has unlimited planes to keep sending at it until he moves.

 

As good as your AA might be on a Cruiser, you ain't going to stop every attack sent your way. Why do think some ships like Atalanta have been nerfed since so it cannot blow every single CV plane out the sky sent its way.

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