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The_fun_police

Cv rework chatter

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I would like to start by thanking WG for all the hard work they put in, it is beautiful I have to admit, but I do have some concerns ect, let me begin, over spotting from word go, so as someone that loves history ect, when the battle of midway was in full swing, the IJN fleet decided not to launch the 3rd wave because all the pilots reported how meny ships they sunk, they did not, so turn off spotting for cv to the rest the fleet maybe?? Also I've done probs not close to 100 games in the new cv I'm already seeing some in balances like a t6 cv score 7kills I'm like OK maybe a slight nerf needed, t8 cv yeah it's bad to be in a T10 game but OMG t6 game I can just dominate, but t8 cv in a T10 game yeah it's painful but I do believe they are somewhere balanced, as we players pick up more skill yeah they should be nerfed more, but like I started swapping the word CV for cruiser, can my t8 cruiser get top score in a T10 game yeah I don't think so I believe they are fine, also the premiums that will be launched, I don't think they are being played enough maybe if they were offered as a trial period to people so they get played more would help with the balance, u know, I wouldn't want to see people complaining about there Belfast sucking in a t9 game and requires buff, good night, have fun, hope u have all the greatest victories guys 

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6 minutes ago, The_fun_police said:

wouldn't want to see people complaining about there Belfast sucking in a t9 game and requires buff

Makes sense to me, but actually would not be surprised if they did... :Smile_teethhappy:

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well if we go historic analogies, spoting ships from air wasn't a simple matter. Half of the reports from planes were mistakes, since scout planes couldn't get close to ships to avoid getting spotted themselves, and reveal that CV is somewhere in vicinity. Also often planes had to keep radio silence and could report their findings only after landing.

 

Maybe CVs revealing enemy ships only on minimap (like first 6 seconds of radar now) would be a good idea.

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I've had long conversations about the rework about balancing, yeah come to the idea, if u replace the word CV with cruiser, it does sound comical 

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31 minutes ago, The_fun_police said:

I've had long conversations about the rework about balancing, yeah come to the idea, if u replace the word CV with cruiser, it does sound comical 

The thing is, that is how much damage they are supposed to do, sort of (currently the T4 is a bit lacking...).

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The main issue for CVs "breaking" the game seems to be their ability to spot (and perma-spot) surface ships. I wouldn't mind seeing a solution along the lines of aircraft can spot ships and have them displayed on the mini map for the team but not rendered in game - i.e. they can scout fleet positions but not call in accurate fire (ships after all have a large crew with specialists for directing fire and communications, attack aircraft have just 1 or 2 crew and are busy carrying out their attack mission and dodging AA fire).

 

Its easy enough to close the tier gap by adjusting AA values between tiers, hopefully if WG feels there is a balance issue here that will gradually get better as they home in on the "sweet spot". Likewise the damage impact of a CV can also be fairly easily adjusted by fiddling with the numbers (from actual damage to stuff like plane handling, aiming speed and affects of manoeuvreing on aiming).

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10 hours ago, Unknown_Lifeform said:

Likewise the damage impact of a CV can also be fairly easily adjusted by fiddling with the numbers (from actual damage to stuff like plane handling, aiming speed and affects of manoeuvreing on aiming).

I don't feel that the current CVs are doing too much damage. I easily do more damage in surface ships nowadays. And with the upcoming nerf of flood and fire damage tiks, that will be even more in favor of surface ships.

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maybe put a time limit on the spotting at the start from a cv like the new radar but make it around 20 secs or so

if a dd gets spotted and for 20 secs he has the ability to turn back towards aa support or to smoke up before rest of the enemy start unloading on him

 

lots still need sorting and I now like how most games do not have a cv in them

the removal of insta alpha strike to wipe any ship from the game whenever a cv felt like it is now gone and that has to be good for the game but cvs still need to be able to make a impact in the game same as any ship can and cvs main impact is spotting and being able to remove low health ships

the ability to fly where you want and do what you want when your -2 is a massive problem just the same as when a cv gets +2 mm and he struggles to get even 1 salvo or torps or rockets off and dive bombers get deleted before they even drop when its +2

lots have promoted the + - 1mm and I agree it would help and it would also allow wg to bring back some premium/removed cvs into the odd tiers

its also still early in the "live testing" of cvs and we need to give wg time to sort it out better than it is

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....yeh sry, but might take a breath inbetween typing... "." has rights either!

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Turn off Situational Awareness for CVs, that would be a start. It's not that their planes can permaspot, it's that the poor old destroyer can't choose to not see the planes. So when the DD detects the planes, the CV player gets a Detected message and knows that there is an enemy ship within 6-7k.

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5 hours ago, invicta2012 said:

Turn off Situational Awareness for CVs, that would be a start. It's not that their planes can permaspot, it's that the poor old destroyer can't choose to not see the planes. So when the DD detects the planes, the CV player gets a Detected message and knows that there is an enemy ship within 6-7k.

This together with removal of RPF from plane squadrons would probably make the life for DDs easier. 

 

Having only played T4 CV so far and getting sick of the Langley with 20K exp remaining I have found that in lower tiers spam of rockets and bombs seems to give me the best results. I have however noticed one more thing that could make DDs life a bit easier i.e reduced air detection when AA is switched off.

 

As it is now you scout the DDs, make an attack run with rockets and fire, what if the detection of a quiet DD where to be less than attack run distance for squadrons so you have to "commit" to an attack run before the DD is detected.

 

Scouting of DDs was a thing in RTS CV as well, but back then there was scouting or attacking, not both as we have with the rockets of 0.8.0, reducing the detection would make the CV having to chose between scouting or guessing where the DD will pop up next after flying past it and prepare an attack run against last known position. But if the DD choses to use its AA it will become detected at a greater distance and a far easier target to do attack runs against, promoting player vs player tactics to be carried out. 

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Vor 1 Stunde, affie sagte:

This together with removal of RPF from plane squadrons would probably make the life for DDs easier. 

 

Having only played T4 CV so far and getting sick of the Langley with 20K exp remaining I have found that in lower tiers spam of rockets and bombs seems to give me the best results. I have however noticed one more thing that could make DDs life a bit easier i.e reduced air detection when AA is switched off.

 

As it is now you scout the DDs, make an attack run with rockets and fire, what if the detection of a quiet DD where to be less than attack run distance for squadrons so you have to "commit" to an attack run before the DD is detected.

 

Scouting of DDs was a thing in RTS CV as well, but back then there was scouting or attacking, not both as we have with the rockets of 0.8.0, reducing the detection would make the CV having to chose between scouting or guessing where the DD will pop up next after flying past it and prepare an attack run against last known position. But if the DD choses to use its AA it will become detected at a greater distance and a far easier target to do attack runs against, promoting player vs player tactics to be carried out. 

dive bombers can start the attack1km away from the dd and still succeed in massive dmg. It will only change the effectiveness of rockets which are the only solution for ijn cv. Divebombers are also way more effective against DDs then rockets. So making that change won't do anything but make the DD undetectable for the CV.

 

If i play smart in my shima even in a double Cv game the enemy cv won't detect me even once because searching for my 3,4km detect bubble will take just to lomg for him if he doesn't even have a general idea where i could be (And i make sure he has NO IDEA)

imagine giving DDs even less air detectability. A DD can sneak past his planes so easily and make him completely defenseless.

 

Definetly not the way it should go.

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6 hours ago, Zuihou25 said:

If i play smart in my shima even in a double Cv game the enemy cv won't detect me even once because searching for my 3,4km detect bubble will take just to lomg for him if he doesn't even have a general idea where i could be (And i make sure he has NO IDEA)

 

El2azer talks about killing DDs in their spawn point. Regardless of player skill, the tactics are the same in every CV game - they load up their rocket planes (which happen to be the fastest ones) and go and scout for a DD. And usually they find one, because the spawn locations are predictable. A bad player might take a 1/3rd of the DD's health... a good one will sink it. Fun and engaging. 

 

IMHO they are still a long way from getting this system balanced, and further still from making it satisfactory for the players of CVs and defending ships. It's as if it has been designed by technicians who don't understand player psychology at all. 

 

I am hoping that they...

 

1) shrink the target reticle on rocket planes and reduce their alpha damage at lower Tiers. Rockets were mostly used for shooting at slow targets:  surfaced submarines and transport ships, not ships doing 30 kt + and actively evading.

2) give ships a manually controlled AA boost (30 second duration,  slow recharge) which doesn't shoot down attacking planes, but causes their attack to be scattered / dispersion to be made larger. This would only be of limited value to larger cruisers and BBs - who are a bigger target and already have a much greater AA defence than smaller ships - but much more useful to destroyers and small cruisers.  Having an active response will also make the defending player feel less like they are being farmed.

3) Give CV players back their old F key function but with a limited number of uses. Call it an Evasion consumable. Good players won't really need it - ones who are new or learning will be given a limited number of extra chances to stay in the game.

4) Sort out the AA sector system. It doesn't really feel like part of the game at the moment.

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I mean honestly, I kinda like the rework, it feels like CVs have been brought in line strike-power wise, with everyone else.

The one gripe im having is the spotting ... that needs to change. Why not reduce spotting range on the strike squadrons but give 'em an option to have squads with spotter planes that have reduced strike power but regular spotting. 

as has been said, regular attack aircraft werent exactly great at spotting for a number of reasons. 

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well in 2 games,  in a gearing - and taking 14000 damage before even seeing an enemy ship, and finally killed a few mins later i thought cv couldn't get any more tedious and ludicrous, so next game 1 cv, 4 minutes, didnt reach a cap, or see anything red except planes, just hit over and over - 4 minutes. 

So my collection of DD's will be reserved for gameplay that has no carriers in it.

Of course if your a cv player its great. But if 1 boat type can have such a huge influence on the game  i don't really see the point. Yes i know its a dd, but i still had the best AA i could, and how many planes did i shoot down = 0

meaning there's no incentive in even bothering with any aa defence. The balance is way out of whack.

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Vor 1 Stunde, Weird___Fish sagte:

well in 2 games,  in a gearing - and taking 14000 damage before even seeing an enemy ship, and finally killed a few mins later i thought cv couldn't get any more tedious and ludicrous, so next game 1 cv, 4 minutes, didnt reach a cap, or see anything red except planes, just hit over and over - 4 minutes. 

So my collection of DD's will be reserved for gameplay that has no carriers in it.

Of course if your a cv player its great. But if 1 boat type can have such a huge influence on the game  i don't really see the point. Yes i know its a dd, but i still had the best AA i could, and how many planes did i shoot down = 0

meaning there's no incentive in even bothering with any aa defence. The balance is way out of whack.

Tier X needs to balanced differently than the lower Tiers since everything is bigger, harder and faster.

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