New CVs

[bondone]

1 minute ago, mfredholm said:

It's not looking good for WG, I just had a look in the game and see about 10k less players then prior to 0.8
The most sad part of that is that WG clearly fail to understand their own stats.

 yah ! also seen that  , a fast roll back to pre 080 might save it , with nice refunds , Na ! they will never admit a huge mistake !

[mfredholm]

For those of you who defend 0.8
Are you happy now that you see the undisputable figures of active players and the painful death of a game that we all used to enjoy playing?

[1MajorKoenig]

22 minutes ago, mfredholm said:

It's not looking good for WG, I just had a look in the game and see about 10k less players then prior to 0.8
The most sad part of that is that WG clearly fail to understand their own stats.

 

Based on what numbers? 

 

It is clear the AA needs more work but that doesn’t mean everyone stops playing right away. So where are your numbers from?

[mfredholm]

8 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

 

Based on what numbers? 

 

It is clear the AA needs more work but that doesn’t mean everyone stops playing right away. So where are your numbers from?

Active players at this time that all can see in the game and compare them to prior 0.8
It is undisputable figures that not even WG can deny.

[GreatVezir]

How can this rework be caled "good" ?

Most of DD players are not happy also CC and BB. Fair amounth of CV players are pissedoff. But rework needs just "some" balancing and is doing good.

WG and players must be living in paralel universis.

[BIG_CRAB]

yes, new add on's, some people like, some people hate, I love it, the CV that is, flying around, picking off who I like, playing Ride of the Velks, at full blast, magic, and best off all, looking at you poor old DDs, having a bad time of it, the thing is, you lot have had it easy, now its got harder, you lot are crying in the arms of your teddy bear, you had when you were in nappies, properly still are.  Learn, you have to learn new tac-tics,  but, for some of you, that is impossible, that just makes my life a hole lot easier, could do with a joy stick, to help zig and zag, all attack planes weapons could do with a bit more damage, miss the time I could sink a DD with torps in one go, so off now to do some flying around playing Ride of the Velks, I'm in heaven, 

[MrConway]

15 hours ago, morgoroth said:

Why do you even call them CV???

 

And when will BBs get the similar "rework"? Never read about CV lunching just 9 planes to strike a ship, never read about a ship that can alone survive a CV strike.

 

So I expect next rework will allow BB to shoot each battery after 30s

 

@MrConway when there will be free xp sell for CVs?

 

I guess soviets think US Admirals are idiots....

 

Because we are not a historical warship simulator - I don't think that would be much fun - we put the main focus on gameplay rather than historical accuracy.

 

Unfortunately I don't understand your question. If its about the option to "refund" the CVs you had prior to 0.8.0, you can do this until 0.8.2.

[morgoroth]

5 minutes ago, MrConway said:

Unfortunately I don't understand your question. If its about the option to "refund" the CVs you had prior to 0.8.0, you can do this until 0.8.2.

OK, ty.

 

6 minutes ago, MrConway said:

Because we are not a historical warship simulator - I don't think that would be much fun - we put the main focus on gameplay rather than historical accuracy.

So explain me why playing CV you need to put a lot of effort to do something while playing a BB you can use one hand and the other ... whatever you want to do.

 

The effort should be proportional to the reward now it isn't.

[80yearoldpotato]

3 hours ago, tomo64r said:

How can this rework be caled "good" ?

Most of DD players are not happy also CC and BB. Fair amounth of CV players are pissedoff. But rework needs just "some" balancing and is doing good.

WG and players must be living in paralel universis.

People have been spoiled too long without a CV in the game. Alot of DD players are now whining because they cant play like they did before. and that is true they cant. no doubt it has become harder to play DD and some on this forum even finds it stressful.. but i mean this is  the situation they need to adapt to. Its not finished and @MrConway and the rest of WG is trying their hardest to balance and make a game fun for all classes ( which is a hell of a job) When the meta change you adapt and develop new strats and gameplay in order to achieve success. If you arent willing to adapt and get better then i guess this might not be the game for you. 

 

There will allways be a part of the player base that whine everytime the gameplay and meta changes. We have whined about radar, RPF etc Still we allways find a way to play and stabilize the meta. 

For some reason i think alot of the current players dont remember or know how CV`s was before when it was alot more popular. Permaspotting isnt something new. People are just used to not having a CV ingame. 

 

One thing i do agree with is the question why they needed to balance GC. I think if they release a ship that turns out to be OP and people have payed money for it, then it should just be left alone and stay the way it is. 

Even if GC preforms very well i dont think its so gamebreaking that it needs rebalancing. I think the majority can agree with me that owning a ship that turns out to be OP and preform very well is fun and actually makes the money you put in worth it. 

 

When it comes to the rework i find it refreshing and enjoy the new cv play. but i do think the ban hammer was used too hard on Haku. Balance the power of the ship but  dont change the mechanics drasticly.

I also think that WG could have made bigger variety in the national traits. bigger differences which just makes the depth even bigger and more fun.

 

the skillgap will never be resolved as long there is gameplay depth. 

[rising_uk]

23 minutes ago, UltraViking said:

People have been spoiled too long without a CV in the game. Alot of DD players are now whining because they cant play like they did before. and that is true they cant. no doubt it has become harder to play DD and some on this forum even finds it stressful.. but i mean this is  the situation they need to adapt to. Its not finished and @MrConway and the rest of WG is trying their hardest to balance and make a game fun for all classes ( which is a hell of a job) When the meta change you adapt and develop new strats and gameplay in order to achieve success. If you arent willing to adapt and get better then i guess this might not be the game for you. 

 

There will allways be a part of the player base that whine everytime the gameplay and meta changes. We have whined about radar, RPF etc Still we allways find a way to play and stabilize the meta. 

For some reason i think alot of the current players dont remember or know how CV`s was before when it was alot more popular. Permaspotting isnt something new. People are just used to not having a CV ingame. ...

The above has a few holes in it. Whilst it is true that you could be perma-spotted in the old CV games what you couldn't be was perma-spotted and shot at the same time or not so easily, you were also not perma-spotted in spawn right from the off. There was also a counter to CVs planes, the other CVs planes and most importantly of all the CVs could run out of planes so they used them sparingly. 

 

We can and will adapt to this meta but the problems are immense as the new meta has basically made the design functions of many of the ships pointless, take the Khab and the Tashkent, I'd just ground them and now they are pointless and stay in port as they are solo harriers and that role is dead in this new meta. The caps are pretty much pointless on the maps now, as are islands for cover and concealment. All-in-all it is a complete fubar and I for one slightly resent having paid for it and as such won't be giving them a penny more even tho' it makes the CV grind a proper chore(do they really think newbies will go through this with XP earnings so low for the low tier CVs?) but I'll keep at it until I get the T10's then mothball them with the rest of my fleet and come back in six months to a year to see how its all panned out.

[MrConway]

2 hours ago, morgoroth said:

OK, ty.

 

So explain me why playing CV you need to put a lot of effort to do something while playing a BB you can use one hand and the other ... whatever you want to do.

 

The effort should be proportional to the reward now it isn't.

 

I don't know if we play the same way, but I put a lot of focus into my BB games in order to do well and get very comparable results to what I now do in a CV over the course of a battle.

 

Sure it needs more tweaking, but I disagree when you say playing BB is that easy.

[80yearoldpotato]

1 hour ago, rising_uk said:

The above has a few holes in it. Whilst it is true that you could be perma-spotted in the old CV games what you couldn't be was perma-spotted and shot at the same time or not so easily, you were also not perma-spotted in spawn right from the off. There was also a counter to CVs planes, the other CVs planes and most importantly of all the CVs could run out of planes so they used them sparingly. 

 

We can and will adapt to this meta but the problems are immense as the new meta has basically made the design functions of many of the ships pointless, take the Khab and the Tashkent, I'd just ground them and now they are pointless and stay in port as they are solo harriers and that role is dead in this new meta. The caps are pretty much pointless on the maps now, as are islands for cover and concealment. All-in-all it is a complete fubar and I for one slightly resent having paid for it and as such won't be giving them a penny more even tho' it makes the CV grind a proper chore(do they really think newbies will go through this with XP earnings so low for the low tier CVs?) but I'll keep at it until I get the T10's then mothball them with the rest of my fleet and come back in six months to a year to see how its all panned out.

Your text above also have a few holes in it.

1 "Whilst it is true that you could be perma-spotted in the old CV games what you couldn't be was perma-spotted and shot at the same time"

Yes this is true but the AA was really lackluster and basicly the planes could circle you alot longer than what they can now. AA is alot stronger now than it was before.

 

2 "you were also not perma-spotted in spawn right from the off"

This is true and is now one of the main features of the new CV rework. Since their dmg output is low early in a match they have been given this feature so they contribute to their team. We got multiple options here

a) Add a CD to taking off with the squadrons so it delays the spawn spotting.  While this wouldnt bother me it would make the CV`s impact the match less in the beginning. That will result in that you need to either balance AA or CV dmg. Point is that when you nerf something you will have to buff something so that the class wont be complete useless. old cv had a launch cd but they were also able to dev strike and the dmg output was significant higher which also made the skillgap alot higher.  We need to remember that they want to lower the skillgap and the dmg output of CV`s

 

b) Reduce speed of the aircraft. well then AA has to be nerfed significantly because of how the new AA works. Planes already get raped by AA atm and i can clearly see that people are getting deplaned.

 

3 "most importantly of all the CVs could run out of planes so they used them sparingly."

This is still the case. after the hotfix planes get shredded so easily that you are deplaned within the first 5 minutes unless you play very conservative and sparingly with your planes. Midway has about 70 sec restoration time and that means if you lose more planes than 3 planes each minute then you get deplaned.  From my experience in RB lately i think most players are getting deplaned atm.

 

4 "take the Khab and the Tashkent, I'd just ground them and now they are pointless and stay in port as they are solo harriers and that role is dead in this new meta."

To be honest i find them alot more challenging to fight against than British dds. I dont have them myself but i have a Kiev and that ship works very well, but i can clearly see the skillcap has become alot higher on them. They were never ever a ship that utilized the dd role that good. now you can hang back and support BB`s with immense firepower and agility. Imo i think russian dds just got alot better if you adapt and play differently. Everyone has to adapt and maybe your fav ship aint going to be played how you have played it for the last 6 months.

 

5  "The caps are pretty much pointless on the maps now, as are islands for cover and concealment"

 This is simply not true. as a matter of fact they have become much more valuable due to the spotting of the CV. Using smoke and capping a point early has significantly increased in value for the match outcome. Using islands to lock down flanks or caps are still a huge advantage because so early in the game, the CV will have to throw away planes in order to deal dmg. which will result in less resources later in the match and that is a big disadvantage. 

Concealment is less valuable now yes, but in some cases its still pretty much important.

 

I do agree with you that the CV grind is horrible now, but it might also be due to the ongoing balancing. 

Patience is key and instead of whining about our old playstyle i think we should use our heads and just step up our game.

[Burky79]

3 hours ago, MrConway said:

 

Because we are not a historical warship simulator - I don't think that would be much fun - we put the main focus on gameplay rather than historical accuracy.

 

Unfortunately I don't understand your question. If its about the option to "refund" the CVs you had prior to 0.8.0, you can do this until 0.8.2.

you mean on broken gameplay, about you had recieved negative feedback prior to launch 0.8.0 ... ? fun is away from game, tbh I play only to get coal from daily missions, in case I do not have Premium Time, this game is far away from mine HDD
class balance before 0.8 was not perfect, but with less player rage there were ways to balance it better, this is tragedy 
for me CV are now no fun - I have refunded mine

CE skill - some classes and ships were build on this : all UK CL, BB and some others

some changes in 0.8.1 are leading to more ppl leaving in mine opinion - flooding rework

some makes sense - radar delay for DD

 

[1MajorKoenig]

42 minutes ago, MrConway said:

 

I don't know if we play the same way, but I put a lot of focus into my BB games in order to do well and get very comparable results to what I now do in a CV over the course of a battle.

 

Sure it needs more tweaking, but I disagree when you say playing BB is that easy.

 

Well playing BBs is rather forgiving. 

 

I agree though that with current CVs you have to put in more effort for small bits of success. Spotting is quite frankly the biggest benefit you bring but you are relying on your team to exploit this. 

 

Plus again - the constant AA DPS... drives me nuts 

 

For the damage you have to work quite a bit more than in a BB where you can enjoy coffee between multi-cita salvos ...

[Pizzamann_84]

CVs are in desperate need for big buffs, or harsh nerfs to aa depending... Midway is borderline unplayable with all the superships out there just hammering T10 planes out of the skies like its

nothing. How is this supposed to generate a sizeable population for cvs ?? If you want people to get behind the new stuff, make it op in the beginning and scale it back later, not the other way around.

You had 1 chance to bring people over to your new concept of playing and I fear most are being turned off by the ruinous monster-aa-hotfix and the second one that fixed noting.

 

I have always hated cvs before, but the new gameplay is very fun in my book. But how am I supposed to go on playing it when my T10 Midway feels like a gimped downgrade from my Lexi ?!?!?

[xXx_Blogis_xXx]

59 minutes ago, Pizzamann_84 said:

CVs are in desperate need for big buffs, or harsh nerfs to aa depending... Midway is borderline unplayable with all the superships out there just hammering T10 planes out of the skies like its

nothing. How is this supposed to generate a sizeable population for cvs ?? If you want people to get behind the new stuff, make it op in the beginning and scale it back later, not the other way around.

You had 1 chance to bring people over to your new concept of playing and I fear most are being turned off by the ruinous monster-aa-hotfix and the second one that fixed noting.

 

I have always hated cvs before, but the new gameplay is very fun in my book. But how am I supposed to go on playing it when my T10 Midway feels like a gimped downgrade from my Lexi ?!?!?

 after play midway yest , i can surely say its more nerfed after last play before aa fix

[MrConway]

1 hour ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

 

Well playing BBs is rather forgiving. 

 

I agree though that with current CVs you have to put in more effort for small bits of success. Spotting is quite frankly the biggest benefit you bring but you are relying on your team to exploit this. 

 

Plus again - the constant AA DPS... drives me nuts 

 

For the damage you have to work quite a bit more than in a BB where you can enjoy coffee between multi-cita salvos ...

 

Just as you have to put more effort into playing CA/CLs or DDs, that shouldn't be an issue.

 

And with a CV you can enjoy your coffee while flying your next squadron to target.

[1MajorKoenig]

6 minutes ago, MrConway said:

 

Just as you have to put more effort into playing CA/CLs or DDs, that shouldn't be an issue.

 

And with a CV you can enjoy your coffee while flying your next squadron to target.

 

I am fine with any effort that is rewarded and maybe my point didn’t come across clear enough: the coffee isn’t my primary concern... 

 

It’s more about I haven’t seen any changes to the constant AA DPS for 0.8.1 - does that mean you think you already found the sweet spot...? Because I would be surprised if I would be the only one having a different opinion?

 

What does the famous data pool say?

[Pizzamann_84]

Anyway, the situation is quite dire now. Your overnerf pretty much destroyed the strike capacity of CVs. Now, you have to work like a madman just to get somewhat decent damage. AA isw broken op and

fighter planes and defensive AA consumables wipe out what is left. Players found out pretty quickly that you just have to huddle together to be immune to planes...

 

So in a nutshell, the situation right now is this:

 

- CVs are expensive and dont get the damage in to make up for that cost (at least at high tier)

- CVs are frustrating to play due to being powerless after only a maximum of one drop as planes evaporate

- Things like spotting that are important tasks for CVs are not really rewarded, damage is the one and only thing

- since the players that were, shall we say, more vocal against CVs pretty much got their wish, the current situation is now the "status quo" for them. If you change something (which you have to)

they'll likely flood every channel with renewed criticism of "OP CVs"

- Every day the situation stays like this, more people decide that CVs are not woth it, possibly destroying the chance to build that playerbase

 

So what is the best course of action now ? You have to do something and do it quick to make CVs a LOT more attractive to a lot more people, or you can just roll everything back or just remove CVs altogether.

[80yearoldpotato]

2 hours ago, Pizzamann_84 said:

Anyway, the situation is quite dire now. Your overnerf pretty much destroyed the strike capacity of CVs. Now, you have to work like a madman just to get somewhat decent damage. AA isw broken op and

fighter planes and defensive AA consumables wipe out what is left. Players found out pretty quickly that you just have to huddle together to be immune to planes...

 

So in a nutshell, the situation right now is this:

 

- CVs are expensive and dont get the damage in to make up for that cost (at least at high tier)

- CVs are frustrating to play due to being powerless after only a maximum of one drop as planes evaporate

- Things like spotting that are important tasks for CVs are not really rewarded, damage is the one and only thing

- since the players that were, shall we say, more vocal against CVs pretty much got their wish, the current situation is now the "status quo" for them. If you change something (which you have to)

they'll likely flood every channel with renewed criticism of "OP CVs"

- Every day the situation stays like this, more people decide that CVs are not woth it, possibly destroying the chance to build that playerbase

 

So what is the best course of action now ? You have to do something and do it quick to make CVs a LOT more attractive to a lot more people, or you can just roll everything back or just remove CVs altogether.

Ok so I can agree with you on one thing here... That in order to do really well in a CV you need to have a particular set of skills 

Its not easy, but it is possible. Sure if they want more potatoes to do a lot more dmg, then by all means just buff the CV. 

But remember they are still working on this and how it is now is probably not how it will be in 0.8.2

By then they have probably done more balance changes. 

 

CV`s can have major impact on the game and I actually think its good for the class if WG keeps some of the depth and the player skill gap. That way players will have something to aspire to. 

AA is strong I can't deny that, but that means you also have to play differently just like DD´s have to play. Now you can say that the game forces you to play a certain way isn't fun. Then you should probably choose another class.

CV is very team oriented and can give your team a major advantage if the player plays with its team. 

 

I do not agree with you that the situation is so dire as you want it to be, maybe you need more practice or maybe you just want the CV to be easier..... 

The correct way of balancing CV is to release them nerfed and slowly build them up, same with the AA. 

 

They need to fix HAKU and I guess they also knows this. Just imagine how much WG has to discuss all these changes... 

From my point of view I think the T8 up tier vs TX AA is a problem. Right now T8 CV isn't worth playing. but as I stated earlier, they are probably discussing this and trying to solve it for everyone. 

[mfredholm]

5 hours ago, MrConway said:

And with a CV you can enjoy your coffee while flying your next squadron to target.

@MrConway
I have seen you play CV and never have you had time for a cup of coffee flying to target, so your statement is incorrect.
Infact people are complaining about the fact that they do not have time to do anything before attacked again.
People still largely prefer the old playstyle of CV, you just refuse to agnolidge it, even when undisputable figures prove it.

MrConway: When you close a thread it is most often based on good grounds. But when you closed down @Elias_D 2 seconds after writing to him "So, lets talk about your questions." it sort of makes your own statement worthless as "talk" includes possebility to also respond.
Personally I think that was a unintended misstake from your part, and sometimes such do happen and is acceptable.

You also closed down the thred "Important Question for MrConway" and at that time you did do it in a correct way including details of how to continue should one want that.

I also have a challange for you:
I challange you to put previous hardcore WoWs players like @Elias_D and others on a direct panel to solve this mess WG have put you in. A bunch of yes sayers on the payroll is detremental for any organisation. The only way to successfully improve and survive in a business enviroment that becomes harder and harder for every year is to get rid of the yes sayers and listen to hardcore fanatics that are able to share their critical thinking.

[Elias_D]

1 hour ago, mfredholm said:

@MrConway
I have seen you play CV and never have you had time for a cup of coffee flying to target, so your statement is incorrect.
Infact people are complaining about the fact that they do not have time to do anything before attacked again.
People still largely prefer the old playstyle of CV, you just refuse to agnolidge it, even when undisputable figures prove it.

MrConway: When you close a thread it is most often based on good grounds. But when you closed down @Elias_D 2 seconds after writing to him "So, lets talk about your questions." it sort of makes your own statement worthless as "talk" includes possebility to also respond.
Personally I think that was a unintended misstake from your part, and sometimes such do happen and is acceptable.

You also closed down the thred "Important Question for MrConway" and at that time you did do it in a correct way including details of how to continue should one want that.

I also have a challange for you:
I challange you to put previous hardcore WoWs players like @Elias_D and others on a direct panel to solve this mess WG have put you in. A bunch of yes sayers on the payroll is detremental for any organisation. The only way to successfully improve and survive in a business enviroment that becomes harder and harder for every year is to get rid of the yes sayers and listen to hardcore fanatics that are able to share their critical thinking.

I am not interested anymore mate to participate in any discussion.

What happened,happened on purpose to stop the post and the discussion because probably a lot of serious opinions exposed there which they didn't like. So the famous troll of the forum Colonel Pete something came in to provoke everything and everyone in order to lead people to frustration and give WG a reason to shut us up and stop the criticism.

Answering to questions and then blocking the other to have a debate it shows clearly that there is no interest in communication with the player base and also shows the quality of "democracy" they want here.

Also the post had 3 pages of comments and now it's only 2 so some things said there are totally erased for others to see.

Everything that happened was planned in my eyes and it's their forum so let them have it and talk with themselves.

Thanks for the mentioning but I am over and out.

[mfredholm]

9 minutes ago, Elias_D said:

I am not interested anymore mate to participate in any discussion.

What happened,happened on purpose to stop the post and the discussion because probably a lot of serious opinions exposed there which they didn't like. So the famous troll of the forum Colonel Pete something came in to provoke everything and everyone in order to lead people to frustration and give WG a reason to shut us up and stop the criticism.

Answering to questions and then blocking the other to have a debate it shows clearly that there is no interest in communication with the player base and also shows the quality of "democracy" they want here.

Everything that happened was planned in my eyes and it's their forum so let them have it and talk with themselves.

Thanks for the mentioning but I am over and out.

Unlike the trolls, I have much respect for you and all that you have written here trying to be contructive.
Sad to see you leave, especially under such circumstances...
Where are you off to, any of the "replicas"?

[Elias_D]

3 minutes ago, mfredholm said:

Unlike the trolls, I have much respect for you and all that you have written here trying to be contructive.
Sad to see you leave, especially under such circumstances...
Where are you off to, any of the "replicas"?

Actually I am out of the forums, I will not post again something, as for the game it's difficult to stop instantly something you loved and spend unlimited hours the past 4 years but now it's not fun for me the way the game is and for sure I don't like to be a tester for several months so I enjoy my free time searching for something fun to play.

Anyway here is not the place for personal discussions we are off topic and I don't like that but if you want feel free to pm me.

Thanks again for your support and your kind words.

[BIG_CRAB]

I love the CV, best thing since beer was invented, and in the back ground, the song ,     the flight of the Vilks, cant go wrong, not like some moaners on here,