New CVs

[Pragr]

On 2/10/2019 at 9:55 PM, vonEnoch said:

A thing that annoys me a lot. You are very close to a high mountain. Torpedo planes drops torps from high and travel 100m and hit you. Have you at WG even studied how the torpedo planes worked?... Have u any clue how dropped torpedoes work? Guess not when u can drop them from high. 

The planes had to fly very low... VERY low. And slow! And they flew that way more than few hunderd meters.. When u come diving from above and drop torps.. what do u think happens? they dive straight down the torps! ... Its so irritating that i consider quitting as many of my friends have done after the update (messup). I understand this isnt realistic but some sense in it would be nice. No i have not played wows for long.. My friends have nagged on me to start. Used to play alot wot in the days but quit it when WG messed up the game too much. (Do u sit and take a jamaican smoke when u come up with fixes?)

You're actually wrong. The early problems of USN aerial torpedoes were mostly cause by the wrong procedure that forced planes fly as low and slow as possible. The tactic adopted later in the war allowed TBs to initiate high speed shallow dive from about 10 000 ff to 12 000 ft and dropped torpedoes at relatively high speed (for bombers) and altitude about 1 000 feet. This procedure caused that torpedoes were less accurate but on the other hand it made attacking planes almost untouchable by AA defense of ships.

 

IJN TBs dropped their torpedoes at low altitude for whole war, but their top speed for successful drop was above 200 knots.

[it3llig3nc3]

I had a chance to test the 0.8.0.1 patch only yesterday literally hours before 0.8.0.2.

All I can say the HAKU nerf is complete.

Worst was a game in Epicenter, where the enemy dug itself into the middle with 2 Minos and a Gearing - therefore that middle of the map was literally a no fly zone, my planes fell from the sky faster than I ever experienced before. 

 

However my biggest concern with the CV rework is that Tier 4 carrier play - boring as hell. This will not attract players to play CVs, maybe the wallet warriros will be motivated to FreeXP through Tier 4 to get to Tier 6. As for myself I started the US CV line from T4 just to see what it takes to progress, but the experience is unbearably painful.  I don't know how long it will take to get the 68000XP needed for T6 as I have almost no motivation to play with the T4 Langely.

 

 

[OVanBruce]

- IJN torp reticule sensibility is still sheet
- F recall is still a death sentence for your squadrons
- Kaga and Saipan are still crap thanks to losing their reserves too easily 

- uptiered CVs are still horribly helpless against +2 tier AA

- AA DPS """"""""""nerf""""""""""" turned out to be a joke

 

[RedV]

Just an advice for developers:

 

Fix this CV mechanics (dd's have no chance in this gameplay) by your last update otherwise THIS GAME WILL LOOSE ITS RAITING SOON. Just a friendly advice. This CV mechanics is a big mistake. Do not insist on such a big mistakei

 

[Pragr]

So I collected some stats the other day. I tried to finished mission so I didn't play the CV exclusively. Moreover, I was disgusted enough to play CVs more battles. There are some numbers:

 

6 games total (5 games with Lexington, one with Shokaku).

2 T8 games

4 T10 games

 

There were exactly 12 T9 and 12 T8 ships (excluding my CV) out of the 96 ships in those 4 T10 games. T8 ships were either Clevelands or another AA specs. DBs were useless because they were unable to get through AA of even a T9/T10 ship that was sailing alone. TBs could dropped a single wave of torps for OP 3 K damage per torpedo hit. AA bursts are so numerous now that no matter how hard I try to avoid them, they still decimate my planes. Thus the only reasonable option that left is spotting DDs and harass them to the death (unless it is something like Jutland, Gearing or other AA DD). At this moment it seems that WG does everything to prevent BB players to be hurt by anything no matter how bad they're playing (I'm exaggerating of course but just a bit). 

 

Quite opposite  is the situation when T8 CV fights to T6 ships. I can usually farm damage on such unlucky player. That's wrong of course. We simply have to get rid off the +/-T2 games. That's shall be the primary hotfix provided that WG realy wants to make CVs balanced with other classes of ships. Everything else is just a waste of time, since it's almost impossible to balanced the range of four tiers of this weird CV style.

[Panocek]

One issue introduced with first hotfix are plane losses when they drop their payload - it doesn't matter if player can plan and execute flawless strike run with island cover, mindful of DFAA cooldown etc, when planes simply get shredded on their way up after releasing payload. Either aircraft without ordnance would have to be ignored by AA or have shorter climb time, due to not having 1ton of boomies strapped to them. Or empty planes join to the squadron and then can be released manually with F key, another use of F key would send entire squadron home.

 

@MrConway any chance of sending that to the dev team?

[ItsEyeJasper]

I am sorry When the Ships are to close it is impossible to drop more than one torpedo set, or use your bombers. And then  when you have one ship on its own they are to weak.

Well done for failing this patch so far.

[159Hunter]

Two more items:

- switching sector also activates my AA. This is annoying for DD gameplay, can we plz make it so that switching sector doesn't activate AA?

- can we have, in the battle results, the amount of damage done to planes?

[Tudor1982]

I usually do not waste time to write on forums as I do not have enough time to play as before (job, wife, little son), but this time I am pissed! I used to play this game for one or two hours in the evening but I did not pay real money on my Saipan to drop planes like flies, nor used them to spot. That is NOT what I paid for! Fix this or you won't see a dime from me again! 

P.S.: I'll also check into some legal matters if there is any way in return of my investment!

[miquid]

nerf

[Garry_Flood]

no point in playing cv anymore they suck

[1MajorKoenig]

4 minutes ago, Garry_Flood said:

no point in playing cv anymore they suck

 

Unfortunately currently it’s indeed not super enjoyable. 

 

Really hope that WG wakes up quickly and improves the situation as today’s “hotfix” didn’t fix anything balance wise.

[bondone]

2 hours ago, Garry_Flood said:

no point in playing cv anymore they suck

correct !

[bondone]

3 hours ago, miquid said:

 

 

- Fixes:  Multi-task between ship and planes 

- Reason: If AI move your ship, it will go backwards instead of turning or simply crash into an island. The AI is not good enough to trust. Same issue in other titles like i.e. Wargames/Total War Arena

However! When you switch to the ship you should be limited to the keys WASD (to avoid abusing anything else) 

 

- Fixes: I want to be able to do loops 

- Reason: Because it's fun

If you have taken the initative to change the carrier role into a World of Warplane game. At least improve the overall experience like i.e. to do loops. 

 

- Fixes: Engagement against ships 

- Reason: Often you are only able to do one attack with 8 planes, the rest gets destroyed before you are able to land the other shots. This COULD be fixed by nerfing the AA. However! I want to see more inovative solutions as well. 

 

There are a few options to solve this issue. 

 

1. Either let us be able to increase the amount of planes we want to use during the attack waves. 

 

Right now, at tier 6 Ryujo I'm able to use 2 planes x 3 times. 

One cruiser can shoot down all 6 planes before I'm able to pull of the 2nd attack. 

If I were able to increase the attack size to 3 planes 2 times it would be more fair. 

 

2. When you engage (pressing 1) The remaining planes either return back home or simply circle around on that point where you pressed (1) 

 

3. The remaining planes automatically do a C-circle back to target

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

just have full control with a forwards view  with planes , joystick friendly . or CVs can fire V2s and Baka bomb attacks  , what you suggest could help but to little to late . flying attack planes  only ,one flight at a time with only two keys and a mouse , SUCKS  . NO ONE MINDING THE SHIP DURING THE PLANE ATTACK  !! wth !!!! SNAFU !

[bondone]

12 hours ago, it3llig3nc3 said:

I had a chance to test the 0.8.0.1 patch only yesterday literally hours before 0.8.0.2.

All I can say the HAKU nerf is complete.

Worst was a game in Epicenter, where the enemy dug itself into the middle with 2 Minos and a Gearing - therefore that middle of the map was literally a no fly zone, my planes fell from the sky faster than I ever experienced before. 

 

However my biggest concern with the CV rework is that Tier 4 carrier play - boring as hell. This will not attract players to play CVs, maybe the wallet warriros will be motivated to FreeXP through Tier 4 to get to Tier 6. As for myself I started the US CV line from T4 just to see what it takes to progress, but the experience is unbearably painful.  I don't know how long it will take to get the 68000XP needed for T6 as I have almost no motivation to play with the T4 Langely.

 

 

CONTROL Planes with two keys and a mouse no locked forward view from [edited] pit of lead plane ,  T 4 useless  .

I played CVs T 4  T5  All the time , now useless .

[Altsak]

AA is still excessive when egressing target.

 

Probable cause:

After weapon employment the rest of the flight flies straight ahead through heavy AA without you having any control for their direction. Not fun losing the whole squadron to this when you have dodged most of the AA on the ingress.

[ItsEyeJasper]

36 minutes ago, Altsak said:

AA is still excessive when egressing target.

 

Probable cause:

After weapon employment the rest of the flight flies straight ahead through heavy AA without you having any control for their direction. Not fun losing the whole squadron to this when you have dodged most of the AA on the ingress.

I am thinking that's you reduce the AA by 50% ( 20% if manual as is spaced) on  surounding Ships that are not being targeted by the cvs strike.

In return the cv has to designate a target to attack for a min of 5 seconds before making a run. This intern increase the aiming speed of the cv on said targeted ship, however a penalty is applied to attacking a ship that has not been targeted.

 The ship being targeted has an increase sector swap time. 

( line of sight will not affect the designation of a target unless there is non for 25 seconds)

Only applied to Torpedo and Bombers.

 

Attack planes stay as is, because dds are already having hard time, but concealment needs to be adjusted vs planes.

 

This way the person being targeted by the cv is being rewarded for the planes being shot down and dealing dmg to the planes.

But the carrier gets to be more effective. And the ship knows in advance that the cv is targeting him. So he has more time to react

[MrConway]

19 hours ago, Panocek said:

One issue introduced with first hotfix are plane losses when they drop their payload - it doesn't matter if player can plan and execute flawless strike run with island cover, mindful of DFAA cooldown etc, when planes simply get shredded on their way up after releasing payload. Either aircraft without ordnance would have to be ignored by AA or have shorter climb time, due to not having 1ton of boomies strapped to them. Or empty planes join to the squadron and then can be released manually with F key, another use of F key would send entire squadron home.

 

@MrConway any chance of sending that to the dev team?

 

Sure, but it is also an issue we are aware of :)

[StalkerSoC]

So, playing the Enterpise on regular basis during these days, after this patch I have some stuff to add and feedback to give :

- Enterprise is somehow a lot more playable, during 0.8.0 I was able to do something between 45k and 55k regardless of the MM. During 0.8.0.1, I was only able to get 15k games up to 30k when I was lucky, not very good. Now with 0.8.0.2, I was able to get some regular 80k games in T8 MM, and 55k in T10MM... We are kind of getting there I guess ? Still, I think 80k is the most you can achieve at the moment in Enterprise. So if I had to choose between a BBs and a CVs, I will still choose my Massa over Enterprise. Carriers still uptier kind of badly at T8, while in Massachussetts I still can get 80k far more easily.

- What could be done to make Enterprise better :

A) - Either buff torpedo speed by 5kn, so it can acheive 40kn without TA and 45kn with TA, making it a lot more confortable

     - Buff torpedo damages by at least 2000 damage but nerf the flooding chances. At the moment, the combination of really slow, and low damage torpedoes makes them not appealing to use. Since you can only launch 3 at the same time, they are very easily dodged by most of targeted ships. (I only use them on T6 BBs when I'am top tier).

 

B) -  Either Buff bombers damage, 5k5 for a citadel seems very bad somehow.

     - Buff bombers accuracy, so the grouping is smaller, and it's easier to score more hit, making them more effective.

     - Give only to bombers the old F recall, so they can stay out of the AA area more longer; ATM, even with the 30% more resistance while diving, I still lose A LOT of bombers every run (more than 6). Making them pretty bad in most situations.

 

I agree that the game is very painful for DDs, but for exemple, when I play Enterprise, there is little incentive to take anything else than attack planes. They score the best damages per salvo, while remaining quite safe. I can score easily 6k salvos on CL and CA, while getting a 5K5 citadel on bombers is a lot harder, and I'am not even mentioning torps that perform very poorly. 

[Zerberus76]

I keep trying to give it a chance, but as a relatively new player I´ve completely given up on random matches above T5 as a result of the permaspotting planes, and with destroyers I don't even see a point in leveling TO T5 anymore, the PA 10p captian I recently got is basically worthless because even with CE, camo, and hiding behind a freaking mountain I have no chance to get in any range where I could actually launch torps and expect them to hit something.... which is kind of laughable with a detection range 2+ km shorter than my torpedo range. But uinfortunately I can´t shoot the damn things straight up...

The game is simply not fun this way, and more importantly there´s absolutely no chance to learn how to play better (or rather actually practice it) in matches that have half the team dead to LR barrages and planes in less than 5 minutes.  As It stands I´ll just play scenarios from now on and be done with it, at least there there are actual naval battles there (most of the time) and I´m not bleeding precious credits in a feeble attempt to try and learn how to get better by playing the game.

So yes,  I 've relegated myself to permanent potato status by simply saying F Random Battles, because that´s still preferable to getting roflstomped  by planes and LR artillery match after match after match after match until I can´t even afford to R+R a tier 1 ship anymore.

Playing carriers on the other hand is now just flat out boring a.f....

( [fly around + find choose a target + push button + aim for 5 secs+push again=profit] x2-3, push f) x (however often you can do it before the match ends)

At least before you had to actually think about where to send your planes and along what route...  Now it doesn´t matter because by the time they´re done with their run or shot down the next squadron is fully regged and RFTO.

Carrier somehow comes under surface attack? Press f, launch the next available squad, deal with threat, and return to whatever you were doing before.

For me it kind of boils down to: we'll take the already boring old gameplay of WoWP, overlay it onto WoWS as an "improvement", make it completely op in the right hands, and still expect people that are here to shoot at ships to like it.

I´m going to look at this for another 3 weeks or so until my token 1st month of Premium runs out, and then make a decision whether I still care about the game or not.  But since I can play against bots all day in more or less any style game I want without even needing an Internet connection, I don't see a real reason to continue past that at this rate.

My current review of the game: It started out really promishing and very engaging, and I was having lots of fun, even with carriers in the games.. Then 2 weeks later a patch came to "make carriers better", which completely effed and revamped the playstyle of carrieres, and a s a direct result now above t5 it almost immediately devolves to what is basically unplayable [edited], with entire armadas cowering in fear of being detected by endless waves of planes that never stop coming no matter how many thousand you shoot down.  I´ve got what feel like scores of matches where I´ve got AA damage in the 10 thousands and that´s more my than my gun damage, in fact that´s actually become more or less par for the course...  If I could at least actually aim the AA in a FP perspective, maybe then there would at least be a minimal amount of enjoyment in playing an 10k ton mobile AA turret....

So yeah, you may get 2-3-10-hell, let it be 100% more carrier jocks from (AFAIK currently non-integrated) console crowd that can´t be bothered to learn actual game mechanics, which is apparently the goal, .  But in the process you´re likely probably going to alienate anyone who actually finds romanticized naval battles interesting, which is basically your entire playerbase, as that is the whole premise of the game, ships shooting at ships.

You may want to think of it this way (I actually assume that you have the numbers at hand and understand how to interpret them, so yes, this is a bit condescending, sorry for that.): what good does it do you to invest actual development resources porting this to consoles if as a direct result of the "necessary" changes nobody else is playing anymore for the console crowd to play against in their shiny new gamepad optimized carriers?  How far do your monthly revenue and new player retention numbers have to plummet to realize that basically invalidating actual naval combat in a romanticized naval combat game "might" have been a bad idea? ;)

Maybe the issue here is also that the same carriers that are supposedly "weak" against high tier AA are absolutely devasting in tiers where there is basically no aa?  But fixing (or actually even realizing the possible correlation, for that matter) that is not my job or problem, sorry, it´s literally exactly what we pay you guys for ;)

[Blueful407]

Hi All,
I got used to play CV for a long time and more then 2000 of my matches was done with them.
I had Kaga & Saipan premium CV and I found them very amusement and funny 

 

Back to now I like nothing about them.

Really Really nothing at all, I am sorry to say that, but it feels like something I did really like on this game, has died forever.

They are not funny (for example why I need endless airplanes?) they are unconsistent and useless  (torpedo and bombs are far far away from the previous ones in tems of damage)
Attack do less damage than before, a lot less, anti air is very efficent that means I can strike only once or neitheer once if I fight with a -2 tier CV 
1)TB--> the yellow line (the space to make torpedo become active is too long and the torpedoes are too slow) why I need 9-12lpanes into the group? To do another attack? Why in holy heaven I need to do this… 1 squardron qith full paylod with previous torpedo and bombs would have been enough...here it seems you’d wish to do something “great&massive” to hide the nerf you have made. TB are just frustrating now.

2)Bombers --> they are too fragile, to make a good drop you need to get very close to the enemy ship and often all your plane are deleted before I can make I can get an attack position. And when you finally strike a citadels you cannot enjoy: the damage is so poorly and ridicolous … another question: why you switch AP and HE bombs between USA and IJN carriers? What wash here the point?

3)Rockets --> First of all why you update them? Nobody ask for this, nobody need to think about a new air weapon, and really I need to spend 2 minutes to do 3000 hp damage? They are just a "bug" which make a lot of spot [increasing the previous problem of "overspotting" realted to a CV into the match].
At the end I can just say you ruined something else:

Strategy.

Everything changed now, Radar Cruisers, Flankers, English Cruisers, Pan-Asian destroyers… ecc ecc…

Would you like a suggestion?

Here some :

-          I hve nothing to say about the fact to have a direct control of a nigle squadron, that is fine to me. I undestand your struggle in the past, so I can appraciate this change

-          Give back us again maximum numer of planes carried by a CV so the players can use them wisely and you’ll fix the problem with the overspotting. No-one would leave the planes dieing if they have limited supply.

-          We do not need 9-12 planes per squadron, give us back the previus number and let them drop all in the same time. And when they have dropped the payload let us decide the route to bring them back (to make not lose them over enemy fleet) or just press F like now

-          Remove the roket planes. Give us back the fighters, letting us doing dogfighting and helping the team. Same story of past. Limited planes and time to have a direct control on them

-          Improve the damage done from the payloads, a middle way between what it was and what it is now, I can easily say you’ll find the right balance

-          Give us back the “uneven” carriers (t5 –t7 – t9) in my opinion 2 level of differences like t6-t8 are too univen for the planes HP

-          Last one, decrease the efficency of some anti air, more damage for continuous one and less for flack

Hope it can be helpful

And sorry for misspelling something, my broken english is not perfect ad I‘d wish

[Pavel_Mirsky]

On 2/5/2019 at 11:35 PM, Captain_LOZFFVII said:

RTS=Real Time Strategy.

PTS≠RTS. I was talking about the old CV gameplay.

You are incorrect.

I am someone who always wanted to play CVs as some of my favourite WW2 ships were CVs, but I suck at RTS gameplay (I can't do multitasking). Still meant I had to suffer being cross-dropped and being at the mercy of one team having the Unicum CV and the other having the potato. Yes, truly a balanced ship class and not at all broken [/sarcasm].

Also your last sentence made zero sense to me.

I'll let you into a little secret, I am crap at multi-tasking too but it didn't stop me from enjoying the RTS aspect of CV's, however, to be fair to top tier players I limited my CV gameplay to the lower tiers where air groups were easier to manage and I could have more fun, I guess that never occurred to you...

[CptBackpack]

Have'nt really got anything new to add but thought i add my opinion anyway.

 

Generally the new CV gameplay is something new and sure needs some tweaking. Can't say anything how it feels to play them as I have no interest in doing so. However, I can say something about DD Gameplay and how CVs affect that (as I said, nothing new to add here):

With two high tier Carriers in the Game there are planes everywhere and you get spotted all the time.

Also the Lexington in my last game absolutely bombarded my Fletcher with rockets causing at least one damaged module per attack and also dealing tons of damage. Finally killing me with nothing I could really do against that.

[DocStrangeFruit]

Well from what I have seen of the update so far its fairly decent in regards to flying the planes as that's quite good fun, but:-

 

1. High tier CVs still vastly OPed with the amount of torps they can drop from one squadron and with unlimited planes and more cvs per side this gets exponentially worse.

2. Rocket planes are far to devastating vs DDs and are making DDs appear less and less at high tiers.

3. You were too lazy to work on the odd level tiers of CVs so now the power creep between tiers is ludicrous.

 

Please stop releasing badly thought out and implemented downgrades, sack your dev team and employ some that actually care about the game and have the skill and brains to actually sort the crap out you have been trying to spoon feed us this past year.

 

 

[Sark74]

@MrConway 

 

My feedback is.. You've broken this once great game.. DD's are now too Vulnerable, Too easily spotted, Too scared to Cap, I just had a game where Z52.. faked a DC at the start, sat there for 5 mins, and then just sailed up the 1 line.. and got sunk.. he spotted nothing.. contributed nothing.. and was basically so scared he was their 13th man!. 

 

I've had 4 games tonight in my Moskva.. 4 defeats due to awful DD's who no longer know how to play.. I over extend in the Moskva to radar and assist how i can.. but they just want to sit broadside in smoke and hope to get a cap points. 

 

I've only recently got the Moskva, played 8 in total, in 4 games tonight Due to being perma spotted, I've taken over 6.1m potential damage while being supportive to the team, 3 games 96k, 118k and 121k damage done, 1 game i was focused by 2 cv's shot down 30 planes.. but it was relentless, Zero fun was had, totally not engaging!.. I spent the entire 8 mins of the game, turning to avoid CV torps, and i did very little damage. But due to the current state of the game.. my 4 games tonight are all defeats.. Tell me what else i can do to help my team when the DD's are all scared to play tactically? I tank a ton of damage, i do a fair amount in return, Shot down 30 planes in 1 game!.. Woo me! 

    This isn't a fun game right now.. Would i be willing to invest long term? No.. Would i be willing to try and convince friends/colleagues to try this game? No!.. You've made CV's too influential in games, even more that before 0.8.0, They are not Over powered in damage but in spotting potential and speed, You've taken away the strategic aspect of the game where people would try and work into positions and flank the enemy teams.. now its just a cluster f**k!.. And CV's have little or no risk anymore, They have insanely fast planes, unlimited planes with a refresh rate that's waaay to fast, and unlimited range,  that is absolutely unfair and OP in itself.. Where are the penalties for getting all of their squadron shot down?, where is the risk?? They are simply too strong with little or no risk!!.... Every other class has huge risks.. CV's don't..

 

RIP World of Warships.. You were once a great game, prior to 0.8.0  

 

(attached my stats in the Moskva, i know I'm average, so before you trolls start stat bashing.. I'll do it myself.. I'm not that great but i try to pull my weight in the game)