New CVs

[80yearoldpotato]

3 hours ago, Jasper115 said:

Easiest way to explain deplaning. 

Send 10 out of 20 planes to attack. Now you have 10 free deckspace, a plane is replaced every 30 seconds.

So after 5 minutes ( provided u lost all planes in the 1st attack) you now have 20 planes on your deck.

So deplaning occurs when you send your squad out and you lose them due to being shot down and you end up sending your next squadron out immediately who also take casualties. So deplaning really means you no longer can send out a full squadron. As the regeneration is not quick enough. You will never not have planes  but not having a full squad that can do damage is common. It happens after the hotfix to easily. But was to easy to avoid prior to the hot fix.

 

*the math is not as per the games but it's an example.

 

1. The replenishment time is lower at t6-t8, but your planes also has a lot less HP if you look at the AA dmg

2. A midway has a replenishment time of 1 minute per plane depending on talents. Which is 3 planes per minute, which means you need to lose more than 3 planes per minute in order to be completely deplaned. Atm after the hot fix  you lose about 5 planes per minute if play for straight up dmg towards ships. So you see it forces us to just spot the map and finish off BB´s at the end of the match which is basically not the important dmg that has to be done.

 

 

1 hour ago, wienerkorv said:

Ok after testing some more builds groz. gearing and Z52 still can work if you spec manual AA.

Just a shame the flank pushing full gun  "lidl khaba" groz build doesnt work anymore since you need aft for that and bft, se and si are mandatory on the groz. which doesn't allow you to get more than 1 4pt skill.

 

still, id rather have WG nefted the crap out of the rocket planes and buffed to torpedo ones again

Atm that's the life of destroyers, going for full ops builds as we knew it before 0.8.0 is gone. the Role has changed to a more tactical role. Deny caps, saturate areas with torps or trying to lock down flanks defensivly.

I understand where you coming fro but the game has changed and so are we forced to. 

 

 

3 hours ago, Rokko1v said:

i appreciate your input :)

my main problem with the cv rework,even after the hotfix, is that planes are replaced at all.
de-planing prior to the rework meant,you are out of planes. which you should be, if you are careless.
maybe you need more deck space and/or raising of your replacement timer, thats up for debate.

but surely, replacing an entire plane in the same speed a battleship reloads her guns can not be the answer...

especially not since you get 3 type of planes with individual replenishment timers.
ie, so you are still able to participate and influence the battle with rocket planes while your favorite dive bombers regenerate.
2,3 attack runs with your rocket planes aaaand..with magic...your dive bombers have replaced all lost planes.
really..?

some ship are meant to be aa strong,they carry aa tools such as defensive aa.
if im careless and panic and waste defensive aa on spotter planes , im out. real quick.
its a battle of tools,if you will .
and one side getting a regular replenishment while the other side doesnt..is the definition of imbalance.

i said it before, its like playing a shooter game against bots that keep respawning but 'you' only got 3 lifes.
eventually,you will die.
not to lack of your own skill or your opponents superior skill ...no...just to the endless numbers wearing you down

You obviously haven't played much CV and therefore i think you should before acting like a wise [edited]about this rework. AA is so potent at the moment that you don't need to worry about CV planes. Its ok that you obviously have a issue with how the rework works, but that is how WG wants it to be. adapt your play style and make an effort to win or stop crying.

 

If we wouldn't have replenishing planes then the AA needs to be toned down so much that CV`s will dominate the battle to a skyrocket degree. Killing planes means less attacks from CV atm because he loses planes faster than he replenish them. 

[FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor]

Post Hotfix:

The nerf seems to have gone a bit far in places. Tier VIII Baltimore completely shshshsh^...shreds Tier X planes and in double carrier battles, Nicholas can shoot down 30 to 50 Tier IV  planes fairly easily with only just a partial AA build (omitting manual AA and BFT in favour of SI). (The one "benefit" of an unlimited number of planes on the "ships"...)

 

Edit: The same captain in a Farrragut struggles a bit more against same-tier aircraft but even just killing only half a dozen or so planes in two defensive AA alerts seems a lot more effective than how things were before the rework.

 

As one alternative mechanism of reducing carrier power, I'd like to come back to an earlier suggestion of mine which is to include the weather. Planes should be less effective in bad weather, they should suffer damage over time when they are sent into cyclones and storms, EDIT: the weapons dispersion should increase, and maybe some should just get lost on the way in or out.

 

Edit: I like that the AA doesn't shoot through mountains any more and that ships also can't "see" planes behind mountains any more and vice versa. It adds to the realism. To add an extra layer of tactical complexity, the degree to which players can directly control their aircraft's altitude should be increased, and altitude should have some kind of bearing on mechanics like spotting and possibly weapons use (otherwise the complexity would not be very 'tactical', as with the submarines).

 

Ceterum censeo:

 

"Well first of all, the new carriers should never have been overpowered when they were first introduced after the rework. You don't start out by introducing something into the game that is inherently overpowered to begin with. Because if you do that, then everybody in the game has to suffer. For every single guy in a battle using the overpowered thing, 23 other guys have to suffer. Whereas if you introduce a ship that is weak to begin with, the only one suffering is the one guy playing it. So you mitigate the actual impact of the ship by starting it out as weak and then making it successively stronger to balance things out. That's how you balance new classes in any type of PvP MMO."

 

[Hugh_Ruka]

9 hours ago, Maaseru said:

 

No they have not? Have you ever played them? Or are you just copying all the "infos" potatoes spread about the new CVs?

 

 

Oh yea regenerate one plane around every 60-90 secs is now unlimited? You can't be serious, so stop trolling and spreading false information.

Is there somewhere in ship properties a limit on the number of planes they can regenerate ? No ? then by definition they have unlimited planes.

 

Game timer is an external limit that affects everything, it's not a property of the ship itself and thus using it in the argument is irrelevant.

 

To put it other way, the CV has a different max plane limit based on game duration. Or in a more extreme example, number of heals are unlimited if I don't more than n-1 that I have available as I still finish the game with 1 heal available.

[RedOnly]

So from the ships point of view now:

Dear WG how come that you forced us to change the way we were having fun and do nice battles, so we all have to do a boring setup for AA, loosing some good skills of the Capt (you should now bring the max to 22 at least...), loosing important upgrades for a stronger and better playable ships and at the end we kill Planes but you're not rewarding AT ALL for that? Is it true and ridiculously true that each plane you kill counts for 1 HP damage as it states in the Detailed Window at the end of a Battle? And what about those 58K damages I made on those 14 Midway planes? A discount to EU troops?!

 

 

[Lieam]

On ‎1‎/‎31‎/‎2019 at 10:35 AM, Amardyl said:

Played in coop, torp planes could not even get close, dive bombers could not even get close, rocket planes could not even get close.

What is the point of the new CV's if you can't even battle with them?????

what Amardyl (and others) wrote

 

+

cv can not counter everything and hard counter DDs but should be able to participate and attempt wise strikes on 1-3 surface ships (with corresponding risks and loses)

[MadnerKami]

41 minutes ago, Hugh_Ruka said:

Is there somewhere in ship properties a limit on the number of planes they can regenerate ? No ? then by definition they have unlimited planes.

 

Game timer is an external limit that affects everything, it's not a property of the ship itself and thus using it in the argument is irrelevant.

 

To put it other way, the CV has a different max plane limit based on game duration. Or in a more extreme example, number of heals are unlimited if I don't more than n-1 that I have available as I still finish the game with 1 heal available.

You are just grasping at straws at this point.

[Excelsior_007]

A'hoy Captain's.

These are the battles of ships or the imposition of air battles? The world of fighter planes does not have a turnout, so you have to destroy the battles of ships giving each battle for 4 aircraft carriers? Will degeneration wargaming still add underwater tanks ??? As I see the aircraft carrier in a random battle - I have the desire to stop the game. The current version is unacceptable - take off the aircraft carriers' battles, but separately ... Instead of shipwrecks, there is now a time to get away from the equipment of the aircraft carriers. The game is not pleasant anymore - you reached the mud under the bottom. Aircraft carriers are attractive to those who play them. Those who prefer ships now have no chance to enjoy the game. The child who promotes aircraft carriers let them play with them at home - a lot of useless work has been done. It is sad as there is a lack of competence and moderation. Now the game is not the passion and pleasure

I apologize for poor English ... 

[loppantorkel]

9 hours ago, Excelsior_007 said:

A'hoy Captain's.

These are the battles of ships or the imposition of air battles? The world of fighter planes does not have a turnout, so you have to destroy the battles of ships giving each battle for 4 aircraft carriers? Will degeneration wargaming still add underwater tanks ??? As I see the aircraft carrier in a random battle - I have the desire to stop the game. The current version is unacceptable - take off the aircraft carriers' battles, but separately ... Instead of shipwrecks, there is now a time to get away from the equipment of the aircraft carriers. The game is not pleasant anymore - you reached the mud under the bottom. Aircraft carriers are attractive to those who play them. Those who prefer ships now have no chance to enjoy the game. The child who promotes aircraft carriers let them play with them at home - a lot of useless work has been done. It is sad as there is a lack of competence and moderation. Now the game is not the passion and pleasure

I apologize for poor English ... 

A'hoy! Your English is forgivable, but I see no passion or pleasure in your writing

[Reckie]

My suggestion for balancing and make CV less of an easy mode is to remove attack planes all together. 

Without rockets, a CV is still able to hit a DD using Dive bombers.

The CV then have to make choice based on his skill, shall he still go for the DD even though it is harder to hit, or shall he go for a bigger target?

 

Think of it as an synergy effect, without the easy mode of rockets the DD wont get harassed as much as before, and maybe, once all data collection been done, perhaps we get only one CV per game.

 

So, by removing rockets as a weapon of choice I think we would get back some of the balance we had pre patch.

 

I've tried all classes after patch and its not even fun playing a DD, imagine having to deal with 3 radar cruisers and 2 CVs?

 

[agamemnon83]

I've played Tier IV and VI US and Japan CV's Past-Hotfix:

 

My impression is, that the AA between the ship classes is not well balanced out. The hole game in random makes the impression of beta gameplay now. When i'm playing a CV, i'm now forced to focus my attacks on DD's because they have a weak ship structure and a weak AA. When i try to attack a cruiser or a battleship, my planes go more often completly destroyed before i could do one succesfull attack on the enemy ship. But that's not good for the gameplay in WoWs at all. DD's are now the chased ones, and Cruisers an Battleships camp in their base together, because it makes their AA even more efficient. That's ridiculous und makes not fun. It should be the decision of the CV Player, which enemy ship class he wants to attack. 

 

I propose, that the AA of Cruisers and Battleships get's overall nerfed by 15% and the AA of Destroyers should be buffed by 15%. Like that we would reach an overall better spread AA-Power over a hole ship fleet and the gameplay of all ship classes would again become much more interesting.

 

 

[life2party]

On 1/31/2019 at 11:51 AM, Rowboat_Cop said:

Please explain.

 

Really :D well WR says it all (=

[Flaming_Bunny]

3 minutes ago, life2party said:

Really :D well WR says it all (=

Do not quote 10 day old posts that has follow ups later in the thread without including the follow ups.

 

This just becomes a post, completely out of context.

/Me

 

[Blogaugis]

Although I left some suggestions in the General Feedback section, I guess I should give an opinion focused about carriers here...

So, carriers... The most powerful ship to exist - even before the battle begins, you can see them at the top of the players list, regardless of tier...

 

You probably already know that the objective of this new patch was to limit the carrier's influence on the battle. Or, at least, one of the objectives, as I remember from developer diary or video.

Well, did it work? I wouldn't say so - carrier still is the most important ship - for starters, shouldn't ships be lined up according to tier (rather than by type)? It in a way should make us think that "they are not that important". Convenience, I guess. Next thing - carrier planes basically have unlimited range, you can send them anywhere on the map, there is no time limit (except when the carrier is sunk) when you have to get the planes back. Fuel ain't no problem here, mate! ('cept when yer ship's down)... It, probably, wouldn't be much of the problem if they couldn't be used to spot the enemy - since they can, it is still a powerful intelligence gathering tool - knowledge is power!

Compared to the older versions with strategy elements, control of the single squadron limits carrier's destructive potential... In a way. It makes attacking the same target harder (with all this bulky maneuvering and aiming at the target...), but it can make attacking several different targets easier (if they are at convenient range, like behind the ship that is attacked, but far away enough so that you can click the mouse button to see stuff go boom...).

Some noted that the amount of planes is unlimited. I agree - to be precise, they regenerate over time. It kind of makes it fair - as other ships can spray unlimited amount of shells and torpedoes, so now the carrier can join in on the fun... The problem is, it has unlimited range... And it is an intelligence gathering tool as well. I don't really like this "expendable" approach towards the plane, though: you can just go crazy with the planes if you live long enough so that more planes will be brought back. While planes were limited back in the day, Carrier was forced to play carefully and try to minimize losses. And now..? Carrier is OP at spraying, cuz it's spotting stuff too! (perhaps with the exception of smokescreen and 2+ cruisers in it...)

 

Hm... What else to add?

This update just made me confused and not really understand the priorities - what are we trying to achieve?

I agree that now aircraft carrier is more fun to play - it is more carefree play style now  - but with the focus on planes...

Do we need planes or carriers? Focusing on airplanes and putting yourself in a position of a pilot begs the question Why aircraft carriers are needed in the first place? Can you add airfields instead? Also, wasn't there a game called World of Warplanes..? If we need the carriers, and the focus is still on planes, can you make aircraft carrier an off-map power (as it is not convenient to control both)? Because who in the right mind would bring an aircraft carrier into the heat of the battle (especially since there is no fuel limit)?

 

That's about it, for carriers... I could add more, if you like/need...

[MoneyBagsMcKiwi]

4 hours ago, Reckie said:

Without rockets, a CV is still able to hit a DD using Dive bombers.

With AP Bombs? You're having a giraffe! Might as well resort to tickling them with feather dusters.

[Flaming_Bunny]

Here is another question to ponder on.

Now that we nerfed the commander detection skill for everything except destroyers.
And carrier planes are so stupidly fast that it takes mere seconds to go from one corner of the map to the other.

Add to this that 90% of the time you are spotted as a direct result of some plane squadron rocketing around the map.

Did we totally kill "Stealth-play" on the cruiser and battleship classes?

 

 

Best Regards

Me

[MadnerKami]

4 hours ago, Rowboat_Cop said:

Here is another question to ponder on.

Now that we nerfed the commander detection skill for everything except destroyers.
And carrier planes are so stupidly fast that it takes mere seconds to go from one corner of the map to the other.

Add to this that 90% of the time you are spotted as a direct result of some plane squadron rocketing around the map.

Did we totally kill "Stealth-play" on the cruiser and battleship classes?

 

 

Best Regards

Me

Congrats on not understanding how spotting actually works. Concealment is just one part of the equation and the other part is aquisition range. Planes only aquire targets out to a max of 11km. And no, it does not just take seconds to get from one end of the map to the other.

[Flaming_Bunny]

1 hour ago, MadnerKami said:

Congrats on not understanding how spotting actually works. Concealment is just one part of the equation and the other part is aquisition range. Planes only aquire targets out to a max of 11km.

 

I have no idea why you want to try to insult me, it has no helping factor and only serve to bring negativity to the forums.

You could have answered in a normal way.

To the point.

The biggest maps currently in use in World of Warships are 48x48km

Most of the time planes will not be flying in the corner of the maps but rather try to inflict damage or spot and avoid high concentrations of AA Fire
Mostly they will try to inflict damage.

This means they will most likely be flying past you a lot of the time. (within your mentioned 11 km)
Of course Islands has an impact on spotting both ways.

 

So I think you missed the point here.

 

And as you might have noticed, it was formed as a question to think about.

 

Best Regards

Me

 

 

 

 

[MadnerKami]

 

21 minutes ago, Rowboat_Cop said:

 

I have no idea why you want to try to insult me, it has no helping factor and only serve to bring negativity to the forums.

Don't put the blame on me, when you are arguing from a dishonest position, by using hyperbole. If you want a proper discussion about the issues regarding CVs, then this [edited] needs to stop.

[Puss_In_Bootss]

1 hour ago, MadnerKami said:

Congrats on not understanding how spotting actually works. Concealment is just one part of the equation and the other part is aquisition range. Planes only aquire targets out to a max of 11km. And no, it does not just take seconds to get from one end of the map to the other.

Uhmm.. when i am spotted by plane in the first 10-20 seconds seconds of the game(not every game, but still).... that is just dumb. You do not require much to understand that.

[MadnerKami]

27 minutes ago, Puss_In_Bootss said:

Uhmm.. when i am spotted by plane in the first 10-20 seconds seconds of the game(not every game, but still).... that is just dumb. You do not require much to understand that.

Show me a single game, where you were spotted within that timeframe.

[RedOnly]

So, I was just watching Flamuu and Flambass twitch stream just now and both are playing with Audacious Brit T10 CV.

Again, as I already said, UK CV can do whatever they want as opposite to my Ruyjo or Shokaku!! What a discover, eh WG?!

 

Just watch the stream or later the video, when a squadron of torps plane start to aim they can change the course whenever they want even in the last kms, and the aiming cone does NOT get wider, NO dispersion at all... it starts wide then few seconds later get a rectangular shape for the 4 torps no matter if planes are continuously turning.... Ah, ah, ah.... go and see by yourself later!!

 

While since 8.0.1 with my two Jap CVs I can't even try to keep the same course once started the attack, because planes rolls (as they do at lower quote) so as soon as you try to keep the direction, the aiming cone Get wider even if you just correct because the roll... R I D I C O L O U S!!!!

 

So now WG your game is clear! You said you balanced even the UK ones but you, of course, didn't... You just penalized the T6 and T8 jap CVs, don't know T10 don't have it. I want to see what you'll do with 8.0.1.1. and so on... may be you'll give jap dive bombers a dispersion of 1 km... you're thinking about it eh WG?

 

 

[Hugh_Ruka]

22 hours ago, MadnerKami said:

You are just grasping at straws at this point.

It's the CV drivers that do that. There is nowhere an explicit plane replenish limit in the game as far as CVs are concerned, thus they have unlimited planes. Using an external limiter that does apply to everything else as well to show they have limited reserves is incorrect. There are mechanics that have explicit limits (heal, smoke etc.) and there are mechanics that have implicit limits derived from something else. Trying to twist an implicit limit as an explicit limit is a fallacy ...

[agamemnon83]

Another big problem with the CV rework is, that the planes on tier VI are already too quick. Its difficult to manouver them precisely. They should be 10% slower to make aiming easier. 

[Hugh_Ruka]

2 hours ago, MadnerKami said:

Congrats on not understanding how spotting actually works. Concealment is just one part of the equation and the other part is aquisition range. Planes only aquire targets out to a max of 11km. And no, it does not just take seconds to get from one end of the map to the other.

I am not entirely sure here, but I think that 11km limit was removed in 0.8.0 since aircraft spotting is now LoS restricted. I think somebody mentioned this in some of the Waterline or other CV rework related video. Can't find the reference now ...

[MadnerKami]

42 minutes ago, Hugh_Ruka said:

I am not entirely sure here, but I think that 11km limit was removed in 0.8.0 since aircraft spotting is now LoS restricted. I think somebody mentioned this in some of the Waterline or other CV rework related video. Can't find the reference now ...

Yup, I think I am misremembering this or confusing it with the catapult spotters. Either way, you will spot BBs long before the BBs spot your planes, CE Expert of Old or not. Cruisers are kind of a wide field, with not getting spotted until you are essentially already flying their AA and ~9km at most, so the "new" CE Expert really only makes a difference on planes that could shoot AA outside their concealment bubble and that were like what? Two? Minotaur and Neptune? They still essentially already plaster you in FlaK-explosions before they pop up on your screen, so not much of a difference either. As for DDs, you are already only spotting them, when you are essentially already right above them, *if* they have their AA deactivated.