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zumbledum

tier 4 IJN carrier sucks right?

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hey guys , im a noob drop in and out every now and gain , t6 cruiser highest line i have so excuse my ignorance, but i saw the carrier rework and it interested me so i jumped back and actually had the t4 IJN one (hosho?) unlocked so ive been giving it a go. 

it seems to be worthless, if i get uptiered the AA on a destroyer will wipe out a wing in seconds. and nothing i land does noticeble damage , if im top tier its a little better but it feels like my planes crawl over the map to tickle the enemy then fall over dead.

so destroyers im meant to use rockets i guess as i dont see much chance of getting either of the others close unless there afk. but the sread seems to always make it a 2/4 split short/long as everything goes between the ends of the ship but to either side. 

cruisers , nothing really works wel everything is kind of bad and hte planes just fall out of the sky trying to do it (i basically avoid cruisers) 

Battleships. well torps seem to be reasonable , only do a tiny fraction of its health but i can at least with some degree of regularity and divebombers.. very random usually straddle it or over pen but they can do citadel hits, though the damage seems to still be around 1k.

 

so , am i missing something is just the IJN bad or are t4 carriers just this bad? ill be honest grinding 20k a few hundred at a time has about broken me and its 44k more to go to get to the next one is it any better?

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10 minutes ago, zumbledum said:

hey guys , im a noob drop in and out every now and gain , t6 cruiser highest line i have so excuse my ignorance, but i saw the carrier rework and it interested me so i jumped back and actually had the t4 IJN one (hosho?) unlocked so ive been giving it a go. 

it seems to be worthless, if i get uptiered the AA on a destroyer will wipe out a wing in seconds. and nothing i land does noticeble damage , if im top tier its a little better but it feels like my planes crawl over the map to tickle the enemy then fall over dead.

so destroyers im meant to use rockets i guess as i dont see much chance of getting either of the others close unless there afk. but the sread seems to always make it a 2/4 split short/long as everything goes between the ends of the ship but to either side. 

cruisers , nothing really works wel everything is kind of bad and hte planes just fall out of the sky trying to do it (i basically avoid cruisers) 

Battleships. well torps seem to be reasonable , only do a tiny fraction of its health but i can at least with some degree of regularity and divebombers.. very random usually straddle it or over pen but they can do citadel hits, though the damage seems to still be around 1k.

 

so , am i missing something is just the IJN bad or are t4 carriers just this bad? ill be honest grinding 20k a few hundred at a time has about broken me and its 44k more to go to get to the next one is it any better?

If you get uptired you face t5.......at T5 there are a handfull of ships that have any noticable AA. The problem with t4 CVs is that they have pityfull damageoutput with their single torp per atack and slowpoke planes. If your get swated out of teh sky thats on you at t4. And at t6 you can face t8AA that WILL shread you on the other hand you get 2 torps per wave and actually can do some damage.

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2019/02/09 (One Week Ending)  Include Pre and Post Hotfix.

                                                             

 

                                       Win Rate   
 Hosho                            52.37

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Both the tier 4 CV are fairly mediocre, the planes are slow, and the damage is anaemic. They're useful for learning the basics. Of the two, langley is probably more useful - the rockets are easier to hit with, and the bombs start fires. I found the hosho rockets to be TOO accurate, if you let the reticle close properly - if you're out by a pixel they all miss.

If you're interested in playing carriers its probably worth spending a bit of time at tier 4 to get used to them until you can dodge flak and hit things easily. Tier 4 have the advantage of only meeting tier 5 maximum.

 

If you're interested in playing CV, tier 6 are a lot more fun - more planes, much faster, bigger attack squads, actual abililties (can call in fighters to patrol an area). However theres a lot more flak, and its more deadly. Also you meet tier 8, and they have some dangerous flak.

 

Tier 8 (to me) are a fun challenge - you can get good results but you have to work for them. I know a lot of people are struggling with tier 8 atm

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Dont get excited when you grind your way in the higher tier. Go for US line CV and thank me later.

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Hosho and Langley kinda seem to be the training wheel tier. Super slow biplanes, that derpy single-torp drop.

 

It gets a lot more interesting at T6. I really like both the Ryujo and Ranger. They set the basic play style for the rest of USN and IJN trees. Bigger drops, classic WW2 plane types. They're interesting to play in that AA of enemy ships varies a lot. T6 and T7 games give you soft targets if you choose well. T8 games are currently murderous but the hotfix 0.8.0.2 hopefully helps that.

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I'm in the grind right now and the Hosho and the Langley are crap. They don't make a good CV impression and yes the moment you are in a Tier 5 game, every AA will blow you out of the sky. You get one run, which means 1 torp or two bombs and then the squadron is gone. Then you restart with a new squad and slowly crawl over the map to have only one run. I have like over 50 matches with the Hosho and it isn't fun after awhile when you get a string of Tier 5 games.

 

Stick with spotting, be on top of the DDs and try to communicate to your team to blow the buggers out of the water. Try one rocket run, keep in mind that Hosho rockets are crap. The DD only has to wiggle a little and you miss because you were one pixel off. Keep your flight on top of the DD spotted and just enjoy the idea that the bugger is probably raging. Arround mindgame check for lonesome BBs. I wouldn't use Bombers since you will only make a dent if you don't hit the Citadel and even then the damage is laughable, stick with Torps at least you have 3500 to 4000 damage. If you see low health cruisers take the rockets and finish them off.

 

If your CV positioning is good you will find yourself being the last man standing. Don't even think you can sink a 3/4 health BB if he is chasing you.

 

Use your minimap alot. DDs with AA off are very hard to spot and sometimes you see a blib on the minimap when you briefly cross them. Turn arround and spot the [edited] :P

 

The reason you get one run 99% of the time in Tier 5 is because the AA Auroa DOT is too high. So once you finish the run and the the plane turns arround the  rest of the flight is already orange and you will be killed in the turn.

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Hopefully the patch today will reduce the continuous fire AA issue in t5 games, but even then it just makes things tricky like being a t6 CV in a t8 match.

If you cannot hit a DD with rockets at this level, then you need to see where the DD is maneuvering and apply the right amount of lead. It should be possible to land at least one rocket most of the time with a wide reticule. If you can't harass DD's consistently at t4, then the t6 planes will be too fast for you.

If you are losing all your planes in just one attack run, or can only perform one attack run, then you are probably eating too many flak bursts. WASD hacks works on planes too! Making a consistent predictable turn is asking to eat flak, so don't do it.

Learn the basics well at t4, cause at least the MM is protected. At t6, t8 AA can be murderous and the much faster planes requires a bit of adjustment in targeting than t4. There is very little time to hit a DD once you've spotting it at t6 with rockets.

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5 minutes ago, Armorin said:

Hopefully the patch today will reduce the continuous fire AA issue in t5 games, but even then it just makes things tricky like being a t6 CV in a t8 match.

If you cannot hit a DD with rockets at this level, then you need to see where the DD is maneuvering and apply the right amount of lead. It should be possible to land at least one rocket most of the time with a wide reticule. If you can't harass DD's consistently at t4, then the t6 planes will be too fast for you.

If you are losing all your planes in just one attack run, or can only perform one attack run, then you are probably eating too many flak bursts. WASD hacks works on planes too! Making a consistent predictable turn is asking to eat flak, so don't do it.

Learn the basics well at t4, cause at least the MM is protected. At t6, t8 AA can be murderous and the much faster planes requires a bit of adjustment in targeting than t4. There is very little time to hit a DD once you've spotting it at t6 with rockets.

Except it doesn't. Dps change is from what I see mostly single digit, while flak damage ramps up on tiers 6-8

 

TL;DR - we're pretty much settled with 0.8.0 flak and 0.8.0.1 continous dps. Until another hotfix rolls in:cap_tea:

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2 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Except it doesn't. Dps change is from what I see mostly single digit, while flak damage ramps up on tiers 6-8

 

TL;DR - we're pretty much settled with 0.8.0 flak and 0.8.0.1 continous dps. Until another hotfix rolls in:cap_tea:

 

Isn't 0.8.0.1.1 being rolled out right now?

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Just now, Armorin said:

 

Isn't 0.8.0.1.1 being rolled out right now?

And its on live, server up for hour or so.

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6 minutes ago, Armorin said:

Isn't 0.8.0.1.1 being rolled out right now?

 

5 minutes ago, Panocek said:

And its on live, server up for hour or so.

Dears,

 

I guess I am privileged. (lol) It is 0.8.0.2 Since 09:00 UTC +4 Feb 12, 2019 (at least on my computer)

 

patch.png.9d16b2a13bea9b58e6965ca1c1e350c3.png 

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Vor 50 Minuten, Armorin sagte:

Hopefully the patch today will reduce the continuous fire AA issue in t5 games, but even then it just makes things tricky like being a t6 CV in a t8 match.

If you cannot hit a DD with rockets at this level, then you need to see where the DD is maneuvering and apply the right amount of lead. It should be possible to land at least one rocket most of the time with a wide reticule. If you can't harass DD's consistently at t4, then the t6 planes will be too fast for you.

If you are losing all your planes in just one attack run, or can only perform one attack run, then you are probably eating too many flak bursts. WASD hacks works on planes too! Making a consistent predictable turn is asking to eat flak, so don't do it.

Learn the basics well at t4, cause at least the MM is protected. At t6, t8 AA can be murderous and the much faster planes requires a bit of adjustment in targeting than t4. There is very little time to hit a DD once you've spotting it at t6 with rockets.

The problem with the rockets on the Hosho is their are really tight, it is way easier to hit with the Langley especially from behind or the side. With the Hosho you are lucky to hit 1 rocket if the DD wiggles about. The best way to attack a DD as Hosho CV is from the front, there 3/5 times I get a 5x hit and the DDs looses a buttload of health. Don't forget that Tier 4 planes fly a max speed of 134 knots with boost...so if your CV isn't close by (which it shouldn't be with a DD near) it will take you awhile to get back. Some Tier 4 DDs like the Izokune something have a Air detection of 3.1km with AA off. So even if you get to the area of the DD, chances are slim to find it again if he isn't a total derp. 

 

People tend to forget how freakish slow Tier 4 planes are which makes the gameplay not easier but harder. Especially in Tier 5 games where you spend way to much time in AA bubbles on your approach. Torp and AP Bombers have max speed with 120 to 123 knots with boost...that is a loong time being in the AA bubble and if you use WASD to avoid the flak you spend even more time in the bubble since boost is also consumed when you slow down.

 

But that all applies to the Hosho in Tier 5 games, in Tier 4 games I had no big trouble.

 

 

One last tip. Stay away from the Orion...that thing is no fun to attack :-D

 

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@sgtmarple, you are actually doing quite well in the Hosho for a newbie. You don't have a lot of random battles under your belt, but sometimes the expected values file in wows-numbers.com are way off, especially for low tiers. There is always a big difference between being up tiered or down tiered in this game.

At higher tiers, the AA bubbles get bigger, and their is more flak. Also the faster planes mean it's not just your target run that you have to think about, but where your planes end up after the attack run. It's easy to get effectively de-planed in a t6 matched against t8's. The t6's are a lot more fun though. Alpha strikes are still low though.

And yep, the Orion has quite lethal AA.

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1 hour ago, sgtmarple said:

Thanks, roughly 46 random battles on the Hosho...just trying to get it over with ! :P

My thoughts on the T4 CVs are 'can I get 100k damage with it'?

I'm pretty sure I can do it with the Langley, just haven;t gotten there yet.

Maybe I will never... did 60k+ though, and I am sure it is possible.


Langley is balanced enough, just those torps... :Smile_trollface:

 

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12 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

My thoughts on the T4 CVs are 'can I get 100k damage with it'?

100K is rather a hard work for VI tier CV nowadays. So far in Langley had once 60K too in a very good match.

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Vor 25 Minuten, BLUB__BLUB sagte:

My thoughts on the T4 CVs are 'can I get 100k damage with it'?

I'm pretty sure I can do it with the Langley, just haven;t gotten there yet.

Maybe I will never... did 60k+ though, and I am sure it is possible.


Langley is balanced enough, just those torps... :Smile_trollface:

 

No way you can get 100k dmg in a Tier 4 CV battle. You must be playing against a Team of brain dead players, hell even  without AA off the time wouldn't be enough to make 100k dmg. The highest I had was somewhere arround 54k and that was an exceptional good battle. 35-40k is my average.

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15 minutes ago, Odo_Toothless said:

100K is rather a hard work for VI tier CV nowadays. So far in Langley had once 60K too in a very good match.

Yes it is. But I have the 'feeling' it is possible. 

Of course that doesn't mean it is a perfect machine. 

Sometimes, your team crumbles, the reds come, and then you have to make a run to stay alive.

Ah well. You have it, no need to be kidding. It means you die miserably with meagre 500 damage... :Smile_trollface:

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1 minute ago, sgtmarple said:

No way you can get 100k dmg in a Tier 4 CV battle. You must be playing against a Team of brain dead players, hell even  without AA off the time wouldn't be enough to make 100k dmg. The highest I had was somewhere arround 54k and that was an exceptional good battle. 35-40k is my average.

Check:

- Team of brainded players;

- Full game time needed;

--> You forgot: AFK dudes that just left keyboard because 'there is a CV'. :cap_fainting:

 

Ok if the DD gets them first, I will not be able to harvest... :Smile_trollface:

 

I've done 64k already (it is easier in the Hosho) and I think will do more.

Plenty of ff-ups from my side that game, could have done 80+.

Mind the average is a lot lower... total wipeout ROFLSTOMP of the whole team is a common thing.

In that 64K I had no AFK BBs, and I also made some stupid mistakes... WR also shows I'm not so lucky.

 

 810301923_LangleyT4records.JPG.4774f86b6371ab95aa13478bda34c132.JPG

 

 

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Is it just me, or is the most devastating IJN CV weapon the AP DB? at least on Ryuujou, I find the torp is pretty blergh, as landing enough to get a proper flood that sticks is hard and even if it would, it's getting nerfed soon. Not to mention that likely you lost a ton of torp bombers in that attack and need time to restock. And rocket planes lack effective fire setting capability to exploit much. AP bombs meanwhile, when they hit properly, seem to do ok damage and significant damage, given its often cits. Not that I see the great damage farming potential of this ship anyway. Or the supposed fun...

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Vor 1 Stunde, BLUB__BLUB sagte:

Check:

- Team of brainded players;

- Full game time needed;

--> You forgot: AFK dudes that just left keyboard because 'there is a CV'. :cap_fainting:

 

Ok if the DD gets them first, I will not be able to harvest... :Smile_trollface:

 

I've done 64k already (it is easier in the Hosho) and I think will do more.

Plenty of ff-ups from my side that game, could have done 80+.

Mind the average is a lot lower... total wipeout ROFLSTOMP of the whole team is a common thing.

In that 64K I had no AFK BBs, and I also made some stupid mistakes... WR also shows I'm not so lucky.

 

 810301923_LangleyT4records.JPG.4774f86b6371ab95aa13478bda34c132.JPG

 

 

Nice, what would you use in the Hosho? Also AP bombs or torps?

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16 hours ago, zumbledum said:

hey guys , im a noob drop in and out every now and gain , t6 cruiser highest line i have so excuse my ignorance, but i saw the carrier rework and it interested me so i jumped back and actually had the t4 IJN one (hosho?) unlocked so ive been giving it a go. 

it seems to be worthless, if i get uptiered the AA on a destroyer will wipe out a wing in seconds. and nothing i land does noticeble damage , if im top tier its a little better but it feels like my planes crawl over the map to tickle the enemy then fall over dead.

so destroyers im meant to use rockets i guess as i dont see much chance of getting either of the others close unless there afk. but the sread seems to always make it a 2/4 split short/long as everything goes between the ends of the ship but to either side. 

cruisers , nothing really works wel everything is kind of bad and hte planes just fall out of the sky trying to do it (i basically avoid cruisers) 

Battleships. well torps seem to be reasonable , only do a tiny fraction of its health but i can at least with some degree of regularity and divebombers.. very random usually straddle it or over pen but they can do citadel hits, though the damage seems to still be around 1k.

 

so , am i missing something is just the IJN bad or are t4 carriers just this bad? ill be honest grinding 20k a few hundred at a time has about broken me and its 44k more to go to get to the next one is it any better?

 

You will find that good players will make them somehow work but in general yes - Hosho sucks 

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1 hour ago, sgtmarple said:

No way you can get 100k dmg in a Tier 4 CV battle.

 

Its been done already. But its impossible to tell, if that was before or after the hotfix.

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