Hit Points linked to tonnage

[tajj7]

This doesn't really make any sense tp me, especially for DDs and CAs as you progress the tiers. Here I am looking at my 'new' New Orleans cruiser, which is a tier 8, and I look left and see a tier 6 Cleveland with nearly the same HP.

 

Yet with my HP I may get into tier 10 games with Yamatos that have near 100k.

 

Makes no sense in an arcade game with a progressive tiering system to have this odd nod to real life there. 

 

I think this in part one of the reasons people feel somewhat nonplussed about unlocking new ships because in a lot of cases it doesn't feel like an upgrade. 

 

Even in WOTs where people say don't think the next tier tank is much cop in a tier for tier comparison, say T29 to T32, the T32 at the least jumps you from 1250 HP to 1550 HP, so you gain 300 HP (or around 25%) and notice your jump in tier. 

 

I don't see why your tier 8 cruisers should not more HP than your tier 6 BB has. Or why your tier 5 DD has pretty much the same HP as a tier 2 DD.  

[JohnQuincyAdams]

Easy. BBs are "meant" to eat damage, while the smaller the ship class, the more you should rely on other means of defense than armor/HP. Speed, dodging, camouflage, etc.

 

If nimble cruisers and destroyers got the same amount of HP as a lumbering battleship, they would be as OP as anything.

[tajj7]

That makes zero sense for trier progression or gameplay balance.

 

A tier 8 cruiser should fear other tier 8 cruisers and BBs not a tier 6 BB, it should respect it, but it should hold the cards over it, the BB player should be the one who has to work. 

 

The low health completely punishes any mistake, it makes absolutely no sense at all that all the guns go up in damage as you raise the tiers but HP does not.

 

Otherwise why have an HP system at all, it's plain stupidity, of course a BB should have more HP than a cruiser, but they have bigger guns and armour to boot, so why when you get to tier 8 do you have half the HP but you have 75% at tier 6, that disproportionately punishes mistakes, whilst BBs can make shed loads of them and get away with it.

 

And that is before we mention every BB can repair their HP so their health pool is in reality about 20% higher than it is on the stats.

 

And then we can add in the complete RNG factor as well.

 

 

[JohnQuincyAdams]

A tier 8 cruiser should fear other tier 8 cruisers and BBs not a tier 6 BB, it should respect it, but it should hold the cards over it, the BB player should be the one who has to work. 

 

 

Why is that?

 

This game focuses more on roles that on tiers. It wouldn't surprise me if experiences from WoT is one of the main reasons for that. A tier 8 cruiser have the same roles as any other cruiser. And when it comes to one vs one, it should fear any battleship, no matter the tier. This is a team based game, and the player need to focus on how he can contribute for the benefit of the team in the best way possible. Whining about a tier 6 battleship being a dangerous ship to face is not the right mindset.

 

 

The low health completely punishes any mistake, it makes absolutely no sense at all that all the guns go up in damage as you raise the tiers but HP does not.

 

 

Why not?

 

Playing a destroyer is far more hazardous that playing a battleship. You need to be stealthy and clever exactly for the reason that you can't soak up artillery fire from larger ships. It's all about not getting hit. The firepower must be improved because the targets you are shooting at gets better armor and more HP. It makes perfect sense to me.

[Grimdorf]

Easy. BBs are "meant" to eat damage, while the smaller the ship class, the more you should rely on other means of defense than armor/HP. Speed, dodging, camouflage, etc. NOT THE POINT THE OP WAS MAKING

 

If nimble cruisers and destroyers got the same amount of HP as a lumbering battleship, they would be as OP as anything.  OP NEVER SAID THIS

 

How does that explain the ACTUAL point the OP was making?

It doesn't.

 

[JohnQuincyAdams]

 

How does that explain the ACTUAL point the OP was making?

It doesn't.

 

 

Feel free to contribute to the topic.

[Jexter]

 

How does that explain the ACTUAL point the OP was making?

It doesn't.

 

 

The OP did state "I don't see why your tier 8 cruisers should not more HP than your tier 6 BB has" (sic).

I strongly agree with JQA, WoWS is all about roles and teamplay, at least that's how I perceive it.

Just because you're a tier 8 CA doesn't mean you should "hold cards" on a tier 6 BB, your role is fire support, AA cover and mobility, not the ability to go head-to-head with a BB, regardless of tier, and soak damage. As for tier differences in the same ship class, while HP stays generally the same, you would gain improved firepower, maneuverability, etc.

 

Of course, if your point of reference is the tier 6 Cleveland, which by general consensus is an overpowered beast, then the whole progression might look negatively biased, but this has more to do with the Cleveland itself than with the overall design concept, imo.

[Generic_Guy13]

 

How does that explain the ACTUAL point the OP was making?

It doesn't.

 

 

Feel free to elaborate on what the OP did mean, for us simpletons.

 

I find the way the tier system works is top - a tier 8 cruiser will beat a tier 5-6 BB, but only if he plays to his strengths in that scenario. It is not like WoT where tier means win (for which I am very grateful). One must learn how to play classes rather than simply look at the number alongside. One cannot play like a complete idiot and expect to win an engagement simply because he is a higher tier anymore. 

[Thjan]

That makes zero sense for trier progression or gameplay balance.

 

A tier 8 cruiser should fear other tier 8 cruisers and BBs not a tier 6 BB, it should respect it, but it should hold the cards over it, the BB player should be the one who has to work. 

 

 

Well THAT makes zero sense for gameplay balance. It is good that a T8 cruiser still fears a T6 BB to some extent. To be honest, he has to fear little already because of his increased firepower, range and higher maneuverability. But still those T6 BBs can hurt him if they hit him. BBs are a Cruisers counter after all.

 

I am very grateful that in this game the tier level is not the deciding factor of who wins a given fight.

 

Also, BBs get punished a lot when they make mistakes. I really do not understand why you think otherwise. They are slow, hard to maneuver and it takes forever to turn those turrets.

[Blue_Bug]

This doesn't really make any sense tp me, especially for DDs and CAs as you progress the tiers. Here I am looking at my 'new' New Orleans cruiser, which is a tier 8, and I look left and see a tier 6 Cleveland with nearly the same HP.

 

Yet with my HP I may get into tier 10 games with Yamatos that have near 100k.

 

Makes no sense in an arcade game with a progressive tiering system to have this odd nod to real life there.

 

I think this in part one of the reasons people feel somewhat nonplussed about unlocking new ships because in a lot of cases it doesn't feel like an upgrade.

 

Even in WOTs where people say don't think the next tier tank is much cop in a tier for tier comparison, say T29 to T32, the T32 at the least jumps you from 1250 HP to 1550 HP, so you gain 300 HP (or around 25%) and notice your jump in tier.

 

I don't see why your tier 8 cruisers should not more HP than your tier 6 BB has. Or why your tier 5 DD has pretty much the same HP as a tier 2 DD. 

 

 

You compare one value only here, that doesn't seem right to me. To compare ships you should take all vaues in account and not only the HP cause HP only tells you nothing.

[DBaron]

Only taking the US CAs here:

 

Omaha: 356.040dpm, HP 26.800

Clever: 320.400dpm, HP 34.300

Pepsi: 202.800dpm, HP 35.200

NeOr: 196.209dpm, HP 35.400

Balti: 197.640dpm, HP 42.700

 

Now it has been stated often, the Clever definitly is in the wrong tier, but even looking at the others, the progression, atleast for me, doesnt make much sense. Now the latest patchnotes say that the T9+T10 CAs will get the BB repair ability and Balti will receive a RoF buff, which might balance her out towards the T10, the others still dont quite "feel" right compared to each other.

[mtm78]

Even dpm coupled with hitpoints doesn't tell the whole story. How well does the Omaha take a hit? And the Cleveland? 

 

ps. I am at Baltimore now, wish they would buff it fast ;)

[DBaron]

Even dpm coupled with hitpoints doesn't tell the whole story. How well does the Omaha take a hit? And the Cleveland? 

 

ps. I am at Baltimore now, wish they would buff it fast ;)

 

The Clever at T6 and NO at T8 have basically the same armor (according to stats), the Pepsi basically has none, the Balti slightly more. The Omaha basically has nearly the same as the Pepsi. Now Citadels seem to be different, not so much from an amor perspective, but on location and size.

 

All I said tho was - "the others still dont quite "feel" right compared to each other." Thats not objective, but a personal opinion If you disagree I am fine with that

[Crooq_Lionfang]

I agree that the HPs should be somewhat different. I'll stay away from comparing different classes, but within a class there should be a noticable difference from one tier to the next. Right now especially on Destroyers and Cruisers the differences are rather minimal in most cases (in IJN CA line tier 8 Myoko with best hull even has about 2k less HP than tier 7 Mogami, but I know they will switch places next patch), but with the increase in damage from higher caliber guns and better torpedos at higher tier survivability basically goes down from tier to tier, while it should at least be a little better. Just my opinion.

[Aernir]

I'm actually liking the tier progression so far. Been playing actively for a little over a month, just a few matches away from the Yamato, got the Myoko, the Pepsi and both DD lines at Tier V. As for the difference between the various classes, I'm definitely a fan of it. A cruiser is a cruiser, and a battleship is a battleship, regardless of what kind of matches you get into. What I've noticed overall is that starting at either Tier VI or VII, the game starts to reward precision and punishes mistakes much more harshly. I originally dreaded trading in my Cleveland for the Pepsi after everything I'd heard, but I didn't find it bad at all. A Pensacola might not have anywhere near the DPM or durability of the Cleveland, but those 10x203mm (upgraded hull) can punch several holes in the citadel of enemy cruisers with ever single volley if your aim is spot on (mine usually isn't), dropping them incredibly quickly as well as being much more reliable at damaging battleships, but every time you miss it hurts you all the more. It feels like the game is actually demanding that I get better with each and every tier I move up if I want to remain competitive, ships becoming ever harder to use but all the more rewarding when used right, and I'm loving it.

 

That's not to say I don't think some ships should be shuffled around or have their characteristics fine tuned, but I don't see any major issues with the tier progression in general.

 

 

[DBaron]

I'm actually liking the tier progression so far. Been playing actively for a little over a month, just a few matches away from the Yamato, got the Myoko, the Pepsi and both DD lines at Tier V. As for the difference between the various classes, I'm definitely a fan of it. A cruiser is a cruiser, and a battleship is a battleship, regardless of what kind of matches you get into. What I've noticed overall is that starting at either Tier VI or VII, the game starts to reward precision and punishes mistakes much more harshly. I originally dreaded trading in my Cleveland for the Pepsi after everything I'd heard, but I didn't find it bad at all. A Pensacola might not have anywhere near the DPM or durability of the Cleveland, but those 10x203mm (upgraded hull) can punch several holes in the citadel of enemy cruisers with ever single volley if your aim is spot on (mine usually isn't), dropping them incredibly quickly as well as being much more reliable at damaging battleships, but every time you miss it hurts you all the more. It feels like the game is actually demanding that I get better with each and every tier I move up if I want to remain competitive, ships becoming ever harder to use but all the more rewarding when used right, and I'm loving it.

 

That's not to say I don't think some ships should be shuffled around or have their characteristics fine tuned, but I don't see any major issues with the tier progression in general.

 

 

 

Totally agree with you there and I didn't say they werent fun to play, but as you said "characteristics fine tuned" - I am right there, its also way better in WoWs than f.e in WoT, if you hit a T8 in a T6 or even T5, still it doesnt really "feel" like to progressed up the tier, its more like just switching lines instead. So HP increase over tiers would maybe reflect that more without having to great an impact.

[mtm78]

 

The Clever at T6 and NO at T8 have basically the same armor (according to stats), the Pepsi basically has none, the Balti slightly more. The Omaha basically has nearly the same as the Pepsi. Now Citadels seem to be different, not so much from an amor perspective, but on location and size.

 

All I said tho was - "the others still dont quite "feel" right compared to each other." Thats not objective, but a personal opinion If you disagree I am fine with that

 

Ow noes I don't disagree they feel out of place, they do. On the other hand, even while I didn't feel I got an upgrade from the Clever up, each and every ship has higher avg dmg then the previous one. So somehow there is an progression which isn't just about dpm or hitpoints. 

 

ps. the omaha imo is a sailing citadel, easy to kill. Cleve is a pain to citadel while NO not so much. Baltimore does take a punch a bit better but what I would give for a bit higher rof

[SBS]

I'm actually liking the tier progression so far. Been playing actively for a little over a month, just a few matches away from the Yamato, got the Myoko, the Pepsi and both DD lines at Tier V. As for the difference between the various classes, I'm definitely a fan of it. A cruiser is a cruiser, and a battleship is a battleship, regardless of what kind of matches you get into. What I've noticed overall is that starting at either Tier VI or VII, the game starts to reward precision and punishes mistakes much more harshly. I originally dreaded trading in my Cleveland for the Pepsi after everything I'd heard, but I didn't find it bad at all. A Pensacola might not have anywhere near the DPM or durability of the Cleveland, but those 10x203mm (upgraded hull) can punch several holes in the citadel of enemy cruisers with ever single volley if your aim is spot on (mine usually isn't), dropping them incredibly quickly as well as being much more reliable at damaging battleships, but every time you miss it hurts you all the more. It feels like the game is actually demanding that I get better with each and every tier I move up if I want to remain competitive, ships becoming ever harder to use but all the more rewarding when used right, and I'm loving it.

 

That's not to say I don't think some ships should be shuffled around or have their characteristics fine tuned, but I don't see any major issues with the tier progression in general.

 

 

 

I agree.

 

A bit of my own opinion.

It's not really about getting a huge incriese in armor or hitpoints. You are still playing a cruiser, they should not have much armor or hitpoints. It doesn't go with their class. Cruisers rely on firepower, speed, AA and so on. They are generally escort ships. And yeh, the Cleve is OP as pretty much everyone knows, but the 203mm on the Cola deffinetly aren't bad. They punch holes through other cruisers like no tomorrow, and can even hurt other BB badly, as long as the BB don't shoot back at you. But that is why you stay and escort BB, have them take the shots and add you firepower to his. ROF and DPM can be good, but it only works if all shots hit and penetrate. For some ships this is easier for some it isn't.

It's about the class you play and what role it has in the town. More or less forget what you know from WoT progression, this is different. Thing done in WoT could be completely OP or UP here.

 

Doesn't mean everything is perfect, no. There is a lot of balancing issues still, like the Cleve. But generally it is good, just need some polishing, fixes and so on. We don't even have the proper armor mechanic yet. Things can end up completely different later, maybe the 155mm on the Cleve will be less usefull then, maybe more. So yeh, some things need to be done, but generally the things work great, and they should not just do like WoT in my oppinion.

[Orlunu]

This system is better for progression, to my mind.  Ships get better as they go up the tiers in pretty much every way.  In fact, they get better HP pools, too.  At the moment, though, they've hit that balance sweet spot for most classes where they get better as you go up, but an uneven match up isn't just a "lol gg" like everyone complains about in WoT.

 

I hate to say it, and I hardly ever call it, but this is a l2p issue.  Someone got himself facemunched by a worse ship, and so decided that it needs to be even worserer until I can kill it, regardless of game balance.

 

Clever is at the wrong tier, though, yes.

[tajj7]

 

Why is that?

 

This game focuses more on roles that on tiers. It wouldn't surprise me if experiences from WoT is one of the main reasons for that. A tier 8 cruiser have the same roles as any other cruiser. And when it comes to one vs one, it should fear any battleship, no matter the tier. This is a team based game, and the player need to focus on how he can contribute for the benefit of the team in the best way possible. Whining about a tier 6 battleship being a dangerous ship to face is not the right mindset.

 

 

 

Why not?

 

Playing a destroyer is far more hazardous that playing a battleship. You need to be stealthy and clever exactly for the reason that you can't soak up artillery fire from larger ships. It's all about not getting hit. The firepower must be improved because the targets you are shooting at gets better armor and more HP. It makes perfect sense to me.

 

Because it's plain stupid game design, and roles is also by nature a bad game design but that's another topic and there is already a topic where I've explained that the gameplay is currently well poor at best. Lets just say that such decisions harm the game long term. Why bother progressing? why bother having tiers at all? why have all that XP to unlock something. 

 

People will not want to play cruisers to baby sit battleships, if that is all they are good for then people will simply not bother playing. All the classes need to be strong and able to take each other one and competitive with each other.

 

This 'team based' game is cloud cuckoo land, people don't do teamwork (pretty evident already and it will only get worse), like I said Cruisers won't babysit BBs just to get a few planes knocked down, this is a game, people want to have fun and win, if Cruisers are not competitive very few will play them. A few months down the line once the newness wears off then you will have world of battleships.

 

Guns damage, torpedo damage etc all increases per tier but HP does not, as I said that makes no sense gameplay wise if a tier 5 DD can survive a blast from a Cruiser but a tier 8 one can't yet can do pretty much the same damage why bother going to tier 8?

 

There is no reason. 

 

You make a mistake on tier 6 with a CA/DD you get away with it more than on tier 8, where is the sense in that, why should BBs continue to sponge more and more shots as you go up in tiers but Cruisers don't.

 

World of Battleships incoming, needs a fix, if a tier 10 BB has over 1000k HP then a tier 10 Cruiser should have at least 65k HP and a Destroyer around 35k. 

 

 

This system is better for progression, to my mind.  Ships get better as they go up the tiers in pretty much every way.  In fact, they get better HP pools, too.  At the moment, though, they've hit that balance sweet spot for most classes where they get better as you go up, but an uneven match up isn't just a "lol gg" like everyone complains about in WoT.

 

I hate to say it, and I hardly ever call it, but this is a l2p issue.  Someone got himself facemunched by a worse ship, and so decided that it needs to be even worserer until I can kill it, regardless of game balance.

 

Clever is at the wrong tier, though, yes.

 

 

L2P issue, hah that's funny, when the entirety of this game basically comes down to aiming shots and positioning, that's it, there is no learn to play as there is no depth to the gameplay and skill plays a tiny part in the outcome of games.

 

I "learnt to play" in about 5 games, 90% of battles in this game are DPM races, you shoot, I shoot, rinse repeat see who gets rng.  So please save your patronising BS for someone else, I've been playing competitive games for like 20 years and this one is not even close to being hard, it's in fact far too easy and simple that is the problem. 

 

But as I said that's another discussion, what is clear thougn is that you know very little about game balance by those comments, but it's up to WG if they want to keep people long term and grinding anything but battleships and aircraft carriers they will improve high tier cruisers and destroyers and that should include their health pools. 

 

 

[mtm78]

I'm closer to Des Moines then to Yamato, and I haven't touched carriers more then 2 matches. I even have an above average win rate I am told. So where is all this talk off 'bb's or gtfo'??

 

And no cruisers didn't have half the displacement of battleships, that would be insane. All what is needed is a proper spawning system, some ways to communicate in game and better matched teams. That way those who do like to see this game as heavily dependent on teamwork will greatly enjoy it, and those who want to find some OP ship and abuse it while being able to take on the entire enemy team, well they be disappointed.  I guess that means you will have to move back to WoT, sorry. Be sure to let support know you're vacating your spot in cbt, maybe someone who is interested in team play will be willing to take your spot 

 

Edit: just to be clear, the fact that you have less hp in your higher dpm cruiser is why you can't take on an enemy bb one on one, as you should not be able to. It facilitates teamplay, something you are afraid to rely on 

( and with WoT in mind, you do have a point there ). 

[Crooq_Lionfang]

if a tier 10 BB has over 1000k HP then a tier 10 Cruiser should have at least 65k HP and a Destroyer around 35k. 

That is roughly the scale I had in mind, maybe a bit less. BBs should have a lot of HP and armor, for me there is no discussion that they deserve their large HP pools. With tier X BBs around 100k cruisers should still be around 50-60 and destroyers somewhere in the region of 25-30. They maintain their fragility, the ranges still leave some room for variance between nations, but they wouldn't be as unforgiving as they are right now. 

[Orlunu]

L2P issue, hah that's funny, when the entirety of this game basically comes down to aiming shots and positioning, that's it, there is no learn to play as there is no depth to the gameplay and skill plays a tiny part in the outcome of games.

 

I "learnt to play" in about 5 games, 90% of battles in this game are DPM races, you shoot, I shoot, rinse repeat see who gets rng.  So please save your patronising BS for someone else, I've been playing competitive games for like 20 years and this one is not even close to being hard, it's in fact far too easy and simple that is the problem. 

 

But as I said that's another discussion, what is clear thougn is that you know very little about game balance by those comments, but it's up to WG if they want to keep people long term and grinding anything but battleships and aircraft carriers they will improve high tier cruisers and destroyers and that should include their health pools. 

Only positioning?  Only that one thing that is dominant gameplay in every single game, and which is what usually sorts the good from the bad?  I cri.

 

I don't like to go and check stats, but I kinda had to after that.  The two classes you claim are ZOMG easy, you have a sub 42% WR in (BBs), and a sub 38% WR in (CVs).  The exhaustive list of ships you've got good win rates in follows:

Omaha

Atalanta

Isokaze

 

Why, if this game is so painfully easy, and with you playing the most powerful line in the game as you primary, do you have a negative overall win rate?  I just went and checked the profile of the first good player I could think of, and Lightbaron has a  60% WR playing far less powerful lines.  It's not the RNG that's keeping you down at a 48% winrate.  It's you.

 

"I can't substantiate my arguments, so I'll use the weakest ad-hom ever employed." 

[Celandri]

most tiers are balanced, remember this isnt a solo multiplayer game like WoT, this is teambased game, its slower, its more based on playing together and make tactics. if you cant get your team to chat and work together well then you got a problem.

 

like the group i had yesterday we planned who used their planes to spot and how our group should go together against enemy team. we lost 1 ship total. (me in Nagato)

while the other team did not have any teamplay even with 4 ships more so we stomped them to the ground

[genai]

 

I'm closer to Des Moines then to Yamato, and I haven't touched carriers more then 2 matches. I even have an above average win rate I am told. So where is all this talk off 'bb's or gtfo'??

 

And no cruisers didn't have half the displacement of battleships, that would be insane. All what is needed is a proper spawning system, some ways to communicate in game and better matched teams. That way those who do like to see this game as heavily dependent on teamwork will greatly enjoy it, and those who want to find some OP ship and abuse it while being able to take on the entire enemy team, well they be disappointed.  I guess that means you will have to move back to WoT, sorry. Be sure to let support know you're vacating your spot in cbt, maybe someone who is interested in team play will be willing to take your spot 

 

Edit: just to be clear, the fact that you have less hp in your higher dpm cruiser is why you can't take on an enemy bb one on one, as you should not be able to. It facilitates teamplay, something you are afraid to rely on 

( and with WoT in mind, you do have a point there ). 

 

Why do people keep talking about teamplay? There is no teamplay in this game! If you try to teamplay, you will die quite fast.

 

Base concept of game, with roles and classes is such that there SHOULD be teamplay, but actual gameplay doesnt allow it at all. If you think it does... go in your cruiser and try to "support" your BBs in their 5 on 5 shooting fights in the open and tell me who did they focus on and who dies first... hint: its you! You get nothing out of it and your team suffers because their Cruiser did what he was supposed to... stay clear of BBs and fight CAs and DDs... leaving your BBs as sitting ducks for carriers and DDs from all sides

 

Also saying that CAs have more DPM so they have less HP is even worse... because you ignore armor and repair! Sure, if everyone was paper and each hit dealt full dmg... then it would make sense, but not when you need 10 salvos to deal same dmg as BB does to you in 1... yet he shoots 4 times while you shoot 10 times and has more than double your HP! Yea, BBs are supposed to counter CAs, but if it is left that way where 1 BB can take on 3 same tier CAs and win easy(and they can if they aim well)... you will have a bad game

 

Every class should have a way to deal with other class to some extent... not saying CA should go 1on1 with BB... but 100% hp CA of the same tier should have a reasonable chance to win against BB with 30-50% hp... as it is now, it might deal 20% hp dmg, but will die in 1-2 hits... and then BB will heal most of it back up... Des Moines is probably the only one who can "cleanup" those surviving BBs from BB vs BB fight to actually win the game... others right now... if enemy has 1-2 BBs left and you win CA+DD war its very hard to finish them off... even if you are 4-5 vs 2

 

And BB being able to kill CA easy with 1 hit is what KILLS teamplay, not facilitate it... because CA will not do their job because of it, they will not be fire support or AA cover because risk/reward ratio is just ridiculous while trying to teamplay! If BB were not easy win against CA, then you could teamplay, as BBs would be less inclined to shoot CAs, because they wouldnt need 1 lucky hit on maneuvering CA to kill them, so they would focus on easier hits... BBs!

 

I really cant fathom why is that so hard to grasp... its clear to everyone how the roles work and what each class is meant to be doing... but implementation is so bad that usually doing what you are "supposed" to be doing is the worst thing to do... waste of a ship... if you are playing CA at least! BBs and DDs are effective at doing what they are supposed to, only CAs are not... and that kills teamplay!

Either CA should have better maneuverability so BBs shooting them at higher ranges would be a waste or they should have more hp/BBs deal less dmg to CA so they can take more hits...

 

DDs can deal decent dmg to CAs with their guns while evading counter fire and can still torp them to some extent and can deal with BBs with torpedoes and DD vs DD is just fine... so DDs are decently balanced(at later tiers when guns are fine), but CAs are cannon fodder if around BBs, while dealing well with DDs... so CA are not balanced at all right now... both CA vs other classes and within CA class itself(both in each tree and between IJN and US ones... where IJN suck completely)!

 

Possible solution: Even tho it wouldnt be logical... but if plunging shots from BBs on CAs overpenetrated 99% of time and dealt heavily reduced dmg, then CAs wouldnt be such juicy targets sitting infront of enemy BBs, but getting to close to launch torps or get better hits would still be very dangerous for CA... so they would be fine if they are support/cover staying at like 15+km of enemy BBs and shooting at enemy CAs that would be at like 10-15km away (since they are infront too) and dead if they try to fight BBs head on = perfect for what current roles and classes should be doing... and teamwork would finally show up in WoWs

 

also... no, higher tiers are not "more of everything"... its less in many cases