Jump to content
Edi4Play

Fix the CVs [ balance ]

18 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

[COBRA]
Players
5 posts
4,070 battles

So this is my story. Today I joined a game with my Akizuki. Everything was fine, unil at some point in a game, a carrier decided to target only me. Only 1 salvo was needed to take 8k damage from a DESTROYERTo be even worse, it needed only 10 seconds for him to return to his ship, get a new squadroon of torpedo bombers, spot me again, and make 2 salvos, that ofc, finished me instantly ( as Akizuki isnt that great in manouvering ). If this is balanced, I don't know how this game will last with this new update.

 

image.png.c60b90fe0aad987755adc78d0568b6ff.pngimage.png.a279f90f706541e0c4b51724c93a8b07.png

  • Bad 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[WG-EU]
WG Team, WoWs Wiki Team
3,499 posts
12,271 battles

You have to realize that some ships can't just run off alone and ignore teamplay. DDs when there is a CV are one example, BBs when there is a DD are another one. Ships are made to counter each other, so of course your counterclass can sink you relatively fast.

 

I'm not saying that the CV balance is final, of course there will be more changes, but a lone DD will always be a good target for a CV.

  • Cool 2
  • Bad 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[TROLL]
Beta Tester
113 posts
4,730 battles

The solo rambo days of DD`s are now over, you could easily have made all of his effort useless fi you had sticked with your team and utilized their AA defence =D I know it Feelsbadman, but the DD playstyle is changed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[COBRA]
Players
5 posts
4,070 battles
19 minutes ago, Commander_Cornflakes said:

You have to realize that some ships can't just run off alone and ignore teamplay. DDs when there is a CV are one example, BBs when there is a DD are another one. Ships are made to counter each other, so of course your counterclass can sink you relatively fast.

 

I'm not saying that the CV balance is final, of course there will be more changes, but a lone DD will always be a good target for a CV.

Of course, I completly agree on that fact, the problem here is that short period of time needed for a CV to make a drop and take off again with another one. With every other update and patch, playing DDs is getting more and more difficult, and it's not just me seeing this issue, but a big part of this community ( also Community Contributors. ). With this new update, it is becoming even more harder, as now you can't even come near a cap, and you're already getting spotted and targeted by the entire enemy team. On top of that, bombers can make multiple drops on you, so theres no chance you will be able to cap without getting killed.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[-FE-]
Players
28 posts
3,387 battles

today in my little campbeltown i got crushed by a CV without effort...3 sqds of fighters armed with rockets hit without effort and that was my lot...The thing is  Commander cornflakes states that dds shouldnt sail off into the sunset alone...the problem is that thats what they were initially designed in this game to do...to spot and to cap...harrass the enemy...they are effectively being hamstrung by multitudes of fighters perma-spotting them and a decent cv player will absolutely hammer a DD, certainly at low tiers.Some tier 3 ships and indeed 1 tier 4 ship that i know of(the arkansas Beta) have no AA at all but they are still expected to handle cvs...with what i ask as they are slow(relatively)...Dont get me wrong....the missus plays CVs and loves the new mechanic and indeed they look fun to play BUT if they have too much of a detrimental effect on core gameplay then things have to be re-worked.Maybe limiting CVs to 1 per side...spotting by planes of DDs can only happen  inside DD aa range(yes ...taking liberties here)

 

without proper meaningful changes u will find(as Cv performance based on practise improves....and it will)that the most compromised class....the humble DD will see a decline and so wargaming will have shot itself in the foot...Cvs great to play now but at the minute having a too detrimental effect on the previous king of spotting and harrassment....As a friend pointed out today,CV are still playing with relative impunity ,with no real risk taken..at least the vast majority of dds have much more to risk on contact with the "enemy".

 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[TSSU]
Players
86 posts
3,835 battles

And... a carrier attempted to kill *me* today while in my dd too. He failed. He tried torps, bombs, rockets - they all missed. 

 

Maybe the carrier captain was new to it - probably. Maybe I'm super pro at dodging carrier drops (actually, that may be true - but I suck at dd to dd fight).

However, I'm unsure why DD's think they should be invulnerable to carriers. You shouldn't.

He can launch another and be their in 30s. Then 30s after he's gone, don't be there. Playing destroyer over the last 48 hours I've not really had any problem from carriers.

 

DD's get repeat chances to launch torps due to their concealment range, unless there's radar. Why shouldn't carriers get repeat chances to launch on you, unless you move to safety.

 

Adapt, and give it some time. I think you'll find it's not *that* bad, or not the end of the world that some make it sound. 

 

Having said that, in my BB with reasonably good AA, I found that the first drop I don't shoot anything down, second attempt, nothing, as they try for third (or just after second) my AA finally wipes out not just one plane, but the entire wing. Feels strange as hell (like doing 32k of dmg to planes, but shooting just 3 down). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[COBRA]
Players
5 posts
4,070 battles
6 hours ago, Chips_uk said:

And... a carrier attempted to kill *me* today while in my dd too. He failed. He tried torps, bombs, rockets - they all missed. 

 

Maybe the carrier captain was new to it - probably. Maybe I'm super pro at dodging carrier drops (actually, that may be true - but I suck at dd to dd fight).

However, I'm unsure why DD's think they should be invulnerable to carriers. You shouldn't.

He can launch another and be their in 30s. Then 30s after he's gone, don't be there. Playing destroyer over the last 48 hours I've not really had any problem from carriers.

 

DD's get repeat chances to launch torps due to their concealment range, unless there's radar. Why shouldn't carriers get repeat chances to launch on you, unless you move to safety.

 

Adapt, and give it some time. I think you'll find it's not *that* bad, or not the end of the world that some make it sound. 

 

Having said that, in my BB with reasonably good AA, I found that the first drop I don't shoot anything down, second attempt, nothing, as they try for third (or just after second) my AA finally wipes out not just one plane, but the entire wing. Feels strange as hell (like doing 32k of dmg to planes, but shooting just 3 down). 

Thats what DDs were built for lol. To stay under cover and to be sthealthy, not to get spotted every 20 seconds by a plane. We arleady have enoguh radar ships in the game that can radar through islands, hydros that can spot torps, spotting planet... what do you need more??? This is brokenly inbalanced now as DDs don't stand a chance to play normally anymore..  I see it personally as a DD player.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[BHSFL]
[BHSFL]
Players
1,925 posts

Rest assured that your scrawny carcass is of little worth to CV's.

 

In T8 CV's i really struggle with getting any positive credits despite doing over 60K damage, and i have a premium account ! While in any other ship i make masses of credits, doing the same damage ( in randoms ) My guess is WG wants us to sink BIG targets that are worth much damage points. Not shoot at some tiny agile boats that you will miss half of the time and if you hit do appalling little damage ( even if you sink, you are worth little in damage...if you werent so dangerous with torpedo walls, stealth spotting  and fast capping i would ignore you  )

 

I find it unusual you were hit by bombs and torpedo's in a DD....must have been either a very skilled CV player or a lucky clueless one. Or it says something about your (lack) of evasive skills.  I only shove rockets up DD @sses. Tiny Tims are the more enjoyable ones when they hit a DD as it often make them explode in 2 hits , but tricky as only 4 get fired a pop and they are very inaccurate too, but i prefer them.  Smaller rockets hit more reliable but do little damage.

 

What are you doing away from allied AA cover anyway ? I always keep a holy distance from masses of enemy ship ( especially at match start)......i would lose all planes going even near their AA range...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[DREAD]
Players
7,523 posts
5,751 battles
19 hours ago, Commander_Cornflakes said:

You have to realize that some ships can't just run off alone and ignore teamplay. DDs when there is a CV are one example, BBs when there is a DD are another one. Ships are made to counter each other, so of course your counterclass can sink you relatively fast.

 

I'm not saying that the CV balance is final, of course there will be more changes, but a lone DD will always be a good target for a CV.

 

Any lone ship makes for a good target.

 

Problem is more the overbuffed AA at the moment. T6+8 carriers suffer badly 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
457 posts
7,190 battles

So basically don't play a DD like it is suppose to be played?

No wonder don't see so many DDs lately.

It's all BBs and Cruisers.

Not good.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[-MM]
Weekend Tester
141 posts
4,726 battles

If we had been playing the game as it's "supposed to be played", then many things wouldn't have happened in the first place. Things that happened due to the vast absence of CVs, at least in part. The game plays considerably more ideal, if you stay in a group of roughly one BB, two cruisers and one DD, moving as a unit and not everyone playing for themselves, the DD and cruisers relying to a small degree on their concealment and mostly on the BB drawing the fire, before the cruisers open up with their DPM, while the DD screens, searchs and does area denial (obviously there are some peculiar ships that "multiclass" or specialize in their function, e.g. Shimakaze being realy good at area denial, Gearing being really good at anti-DD, germans being good screeners and DoT-supporters and so on). Just have a look at what is done in clan-battles and leagues and you'll get a good idea. Randoms with their overabundance of BBs are a direct consequence of the lack of a counter (not helped in the least by various nerfs to DDs over time) and guess what CVs tend to be really good at.

 

I had a good laugh yesterday, when watching a league-battle, when a commenter pointed out that the opponents "blobbed up more" and "stuck together more" and I realized, when looking at the map, that both teams did what they had done before the CV-changes in both clan- and league-battles anyways. The error in assuming that you "can not play the game as intended" is, that your primary job as a DD is to run off on your own. It just isn't. Never was. It just happened to work most of the time, thanks to the absence of better methods of spotting. Your job is to screen your squadron in order to spot torpedoes, planes and (specialized) enemy DDs trying to sneak up.

 

Also, I always have to wonder why people consider DDs as spotters. They may have the concealment to get close and technically spot concealed ships, but they lack the viewrange to really cover the map properly. In your average battle without a CV, almost all the spotting is done by the cruisers and BBs, simply by virtue of the enemy spotting something, opening fire and loosing their concealment, getting spotted at 20km+ by BBs and cruisers, thanks to view-range being a function of the range-finder module and being based off your gun's firing range. DDs could be the spotters, if the engagement ranges wouldn't get increasingly farther, the more you get towards T10, thanks to the gameplay-meta favouring camped-sniping of BBs (which is terrible gameplay, imo).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
457 posts
7,190 battles

Too complicated. You can;t play DDs as before and we all the properties of these boats what's the point on staying back? Support? What support? AA is weak, you are not spotting, you are not harassing, you lack the range. So what's the point?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[BHSFL]
[BHSFL]
Players
1,925 posts
2 hours ago, MadnerKami said:

If we had been playing the game as it's "supposed to be played", then many things wouldn't have happened in the first place. Things that happened due to the vast absence of CVs, at least in part. The game plays considerably more ideal, if you stay in a group of roughly one BB, two cruisers and one DD, moving as a unit and not everyone playing for themselves, the DD and cruisers relying to a small degree on their concealment and mostly on the BB drawing the fire, before the cruisers open up with their DPM, while the DD screens, searchs and does area denial (obviously there are some peculiar ships that "multiclass" or specialize in their function, e.g. Shimakaze being realy good at area denial, Gearing being really good at anti-DD, germans being good screeners and DoT-supporters and so on). Just have a look at what is done in clan-battles and leagues and you'll get a good idea. Randoms with their overabundance of BBs are a direct consequence of the lack of a counter (not helped in the least by various nerfs to DDs over time) and guess what CVs tend to be really good at.

 

I had a good laugh yesterday, when watching a league-battle, when a commenter pointed out that the opponents "blobbed up more" and "stuck together more" and I realized, when looking at the map, that both teams did what they had done before the CV-changes in both clan- and league-battles anyways. The error in assuming that you "can not play the game as intended" is, that your primary job as a DD is to run off on your own. It just isn't. Never was. It just happened to work most of the time, thanks to the absence of better methods of spotting. Your job is to screen your squadron in order to spot torpedoes, planes and (specialized) enemy DDs trying to sneak up.

 

Also, I always have to wonder why people consider DDs as spotters. They may have the concealment to get close and technically spot concealed ships, but they lack the viewrange to really cover the map properly. In your average battle without a CV, almost all the spotting is done by the cruisers and BBs, simply by virtue of the enemy spotting something, opening fire and loosing their concealment, getting spotted at 20km+ by BBs and cruisers, thanks to view-range being a function of the range-finder module and being based off your gun's firing range. DDs could be the spotters, if the engagement ranges wouldn't get increasingly farther, the more you get towards T10, thanks to the gameplay-meta favouring camped-sniping of BBs (which is terrible gameplay, imo).

Very well put.

 

But i doubt those that want to run off in a lone ship even (want) to read it, let alone learn something from it. They want their ship to be able to take on all and defeat them. If not all the others should be nerfed or removed, and they should be buffed. Most players seem to like BB as a main class anyway. Anything that counters them besides other BB is "game ruiining" right ?

 

WG has no choice but to listen somewhat to those kind of players : most of them are paying customers. And the paying customers is always right.

 

So it is remarkable WG dares to decide on what they do. In my opinion the game is getting better and better.....almost got stuck on low tier gameplay as too simple, can't image players want this exlusively shell lobbing for the whole game !

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[COBRA]
Players
5 posts
4,070 battles
4 hours ago, Beastofwar said:

Rest assured that your scrawny carcass is of little worth to CV's.

 

In T8 CV's i really struggle with getting any positive credits despite doing over 60K damage, and i have a premium account ! While in any other ship i make masses of credits, doing the same damage ( in randoms ) My guess is WG wants us to sink BIG targets that are worth much damage points. Not shoot at some tiny agile boats that you will miss half of the time and if you hit do appalling little damage ( even if you sink, you are worth little in damage...if you werent so dangerous with torpedo walls, stealth spotting  and fast capping i would ignore you  )

 

I find it unusual you were hit by bombs and torpedo's in a DD....must have been either a very skilled CV player or a lucky clueless one. Or it says something about your (lack) of evasive skills.  I only shove rockets up DD @sses. Tiny Tims are the more enjoyable ones when they hit a DD as it often make them explode in 2 hits , but tricky as only 4 get fired a pop and they are very inaccurate too, but i prefer them.  Smaller rockets hit more reliable but do little damage.

 

What are you doing away from allied AA cover anyway ? I always keep a holy distance from masses of enemy ship ( especially at match start)......i would lose all planes going even near their AA range...

Who said I was away from allied ships? 

 

I think many of you don't get the point here. I'm not saying CVs should be completly nerfed or removed from the game. It's just that in these days, being a DD player has become very difficult or nearly impossible thanks to number of factors that can kill you ( radar, hydro, spotting planes) and now CVs that  can spot you all battle if they want.

 

 

Watch this video from 18:00 and you will understand the problem 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
457 posts
7,190 battles

If you are good in your ship class you can fight any other class. That's the purpose, to learn and excel.

CVs cannot be countered in the same way as with other ships. 

It is obvious that a whole class has been displaced since their flawed re-introduction.

You just can ask people to adapt to a completely opposed and ineffective play style.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[DAVY]
Beta Tester
168 posts
8,277 battles

im stil baffled how you allowed yourself to be torped by a CV, they have some insane reticle bloom now when correcting 0.o
 

Regardless, you where caught with your pants down, as the saying goes. Learn from it, the CVs are not going to get nerfed further, only buffed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[TSSU]
Players
86 posts
3,835 battles
12 hours ago, Edi4Play said:

Thats what DDs were built for lol. To stay under cover and to be sthealthy, not to get spotted every 20 seconds by a plane. We arleady have enoguh radar ships in the game that can radar through islands, hydros that can spot torps, spotting planet... what do you need more??? This is brokenly inbalanced now as DDs don't stand a chance to play normally anymore..  I see it personally as a DD player.

When the 0.8 came out, fair enough, spotted by planes at 10km was it? I'm back down to 3.6km or whatever it is - it's not *hard* to remain undetected by planes, certainly if only one carrier and 3 cap points.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×