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MortenTardo

Please nerf CV's WG. So OP now. OMG. REEE

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I bet the Haku on the enemy team had a very fun game. Trying to drop ships with 1 or 2 planes per squadrons for the rest of the game because he tried to drop a class he is supposed to counter. 

shot-19_02.09_23_13.28-0715.thumb.jpg.adc235855ecb05cdcf9bd88f1043fe48.jpg

Also. DD's are underpowered. Can't do anything against CV's.. Apparently. 

 

Spoiler

If you did not understand the sarcasm you are probably one of the idiots complaining that CV's are OP. Also. You have some keys marked "W,A,S,D" on your keyboard. Try to use them. 

 

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Aim left. Aim right. Hit citadel, third salvo? We shall see. Let's hope they have their AP loaded.

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1 minute ago, ColonelPete said:

If he cannot evade AA, it is his problem.

you cant evade continuous AA dps.

 

that alone is enough to wipe planes out now. usually after a strike is done the AI decides to wait around and get shotdown for luls. 

 

let alone if you hit any flak that squad is defiantly dead.  

 

very easy for AA dps to take 1/3 of a squad out per attack run bare minimum now with no counterplay what so ever. 

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There is always a constant damage on planes even if you evade flak, the time for target stabilization decreased, the torps arm later, the chance of flood decreased 50 %, you are essencialy a ship that can only do some damage, like a DD but cant kill a BB in a good salvo with torps like a DD. Its just a spoting ship for others to do damage. Its a good way to play planes in 2D, you have a good show of the Battle, thats all.

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I propose that all older CV players if they dont like the gameplay of CVs, STOP playing CVS! Let Wargamming understand that they cant transform one class that dominated the skys in WW2 to spoting 2D kid clowns!

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16 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

If he cannot evade AA, it is his problem.

cant tell if you are being sarcastic or just being erm yeh...

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1 hour ago, MortenTardo said:

I bet the Haku on the enemy team had a very fun game. Trying to drop ships with 1 or 2 planes per squadrons for the rest of the game because he tried to drop a class he is supposed to counter. 

shot-19_02.09_23_13.28-0715.thumb.jpg.adc235855ecb05cdcf9bd88f1043fe48.jpg

Also. DD's are underpowered. Can't do anything against CV's.. Apparently. 

 

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If you did not understand the sarcasm you are probably one of the idiots complaining that CV's are OP. Also. You have some keys marked "W,A,S,D" on your keyboard. Try to use them. 

 

 

Well, he kept you from doing much damage at least. 

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Just now, __Helmut_Kohl__ said:

 

Well, he kept you from doing much damage at least. 

Nope. The potatoes kept me from doing damage. Game ended to fast. 

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To be fair to get planes killed against a Grozo you really have to try to overextend or collect all the flak in a T10 CV even with Grozo being full AA + DFAA active.

 

Not saying that the hotfix wasn't way over the top ofc but Grozo AA really is nothing special if you can dodge the flak. It becomes murderous against T8 CVs, but in a T10 one you shouldn't have any issues.

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9 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

To be fair to get planes killed against a Grozo you really have to try to overextend or collect all the flak in a T10 CV even with Grozo being full AA + DFAA active.

 

Not saying that the hotfix wasn't way over the top ofc but Grozo AA really is nothing special if you can dodge the flak. It becomes murderous against T8 CVs, but in a T10 one you shouldn't have any issues.

My Grozo is not even full AA spec and the CV only have to fekk up once basically. One flak cloud hit and most of your planes are so DMG that the continues AA DMG will kill them off quickly after. And like you said. That the Grozo AA is not the best. 

 

Gearing game i had 27 planes

Harugumo i had 29 planes

Fist Grozo i did 32 planes

Then that game with 34 planes

 

Every game with CV's i did around 25-30 planes with DD's today.  So can't really say it seems like CV's are overperforming after the "hotfix".:Smile_veryhappy:

 

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Its not about their balance... Its about how they affect the meta.

 

Before the hotfix aka cv nerf, all you saw every battle was two massive blobs of ships duking it out at 15km.

 

I just dont see how wargaming are intending to make carriers strong without turning the meta into pigshit.

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13 minutes ago, thiextar said:

Its not about their balance... Its about how they affect the meta.

 

Before the hotfix aka cv nerf, all you saw every battle was two massive blobs of ships duking it out at 15km.

 

I just dont see how wargaming are intending to make carriers strong without turning the meta into pigshit.

The players have to adapt to the meta. As in all other games. 

It wont happen the first week, but people will learn after a while. The fact is that everyone have been used to not having CV's in the game and adapted their playstyle after that. Then all of a sudden there are 2 CV's on both teams and they panic. Group up into a blob like you said. That is just stupidity, nothing else. Simply a L2P issue.

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48 minutes ago, MortenTardo said:

The players have to adapt to the meta. As in all other games. 

It wont happen the first week, but people will learn after a while. The fact is that everyone have been used to not having CV's in the game and adapted their playstyle after that. Then all of a sudden there are 2 CV's on both teams and they panic. Group up into a blob like you said. That is just stupidity, nothing else. Simply a L2P issue.

i always thought you were a retard, but after seeing some posts you made after rework i kinda like you

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12 minutes ago, SexyCroat said:

i always thought you were a retard, but after seeing some posts you made after rework i kinda like you

That is nice to hear, since that has been my goal in life. You know, trying to get you to like me.

:Smile_amazed:

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In my opinion:

 

CV's kind of play their own game here....

 

There's no real link between CV and the play of the rest of the team....

 

Being a CV, you fly out, spot a little, bomb a little, torp a little and hope your team pulls through.... Where your carrier goes in the meantime, it totally irrelevant.... die, jump into another battle and do the same.

 

And flying another class, having enemy aircraft around is just something you can totally disregard.... Sure, you can wig a little and hope they miss their torps, or bombs, but in reality you can for the most part just let them do whatever they like.... it's not like the aircraft requires a primary school degree to be able to hit stuff.... Sure you can "oh so skilled" evade AA, but in reality..... most times, just fly in circles and you're good...

 

Honestly, flying aircraft are fun.... for a short while, then you realize how little impact you actually have on a battle, and how little you're actually playing the same game as everyone else....

 

The "we're playing the same game" feeling is actually gone...

 

I know they've tried the "sector" thingy with AAA, but still, it often seems to pay off more just to ignore that feature.... Who cares of the number of aircraft kills that shows up....

 

I've just started ignoring aircraft al together.... simply cause as stated above, they don't matter.... I'll get hit by bombs and torps anyway, and I'll kill aircraft anyway... hence no need to even consider their game. They're just there to speed up the game slightly via spotting and giving a bit of damage here and there... and since that affects us all equally, who cares?

 

That's my opinion at least.

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3 hours ago, MortenTardo said:

The players have to adapt to the meta. As in all other games. 

It wont happen the first week, but people will learn after a while. The fact is that everyone have been used to not having CV's in the game and adapted their playstyle after that. Then all of a sudden there are 2 CV's on both teams and they panic. Group up into a blob like you said. That is just stupidity, nothing else. Simply a L2P issue.

os everyone has to adapt around one class of ship that was so massively unbalanced? k....

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5 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

If he cannot evade AA, it is his problem.

If this is your answer you do not understand the game mechanics. And therefore can't make a honest unbiased opinion on CVs. You can't for the life of it evade AA. Also you finished 1 drop your planes scoot ahead, possible above AA. And then the timer kicks in for "prolonged" exposure. And your planes drop like flies.

Also on return your planes are outside your control, meaning if they go over a cruiser they are all lost. Btw you started your run with lets say 12 planes, then your next sortie, after all your planes are lost exists of 9 planes, imagine after that sortie what happens. Also it takes about? 1.5 min for 1 plane to refresh. Safe to say you do some damage at the beginning of the game but shortly after you are left with half-assed attacks on weaker targets and no longer able to fully participate in the game. 

Also if by chance a cruiser gets past your friendlies and decides to go after you, you die. That is CV gaming at the moment.

 

You can thus see losing your planes as losing 1 of your front turrets on a yamato. Good luck doing anything with that 1 turret left.

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5 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

To be fair to get planes killed against a Grozo you really have to try to overextend or collect all the flak in a T10 CV even with Grozo being full AA + DFAA active.

 

Not saying that the hotfix wasn't way over the top ofc but Grozo AA really is nothing special if you can dodge the flak. It becomes murderous against T8 CVs, but in a T10 one you shouldn't have any issues.

That's false, actually. You underestimate Grozovoi AA build. An AA built Grozovoi has 20:180 distribution of AA and 4-second reinforcement switching, so if the player pays attention, the planes will always be on the reinforced side. Then comes DD-grade AA consumable that triples the AA. Now your reinforced side is at 540% of nominal AA power. And that's before taking into account any minor buffs from the build that I'm not sure how exactly are supposed to interact with the AA consumable. Anyway - that's enough to drop quite a few planes. Sure, you won't completely stop a rocket attack from t10 CV but the CV will pay for it with planes. And, obviously, don't get me started on what happens to a t8 CV trying their luck...

 

Of course, this depends on def. AA quite a bit - so if a CV just baits it and waits it out, Grozovoi becomes much less dangerous. But as long as def. AA is active? The CV can avoid every single fart of flak and a couple planes are bound to hit the water anyway. If it doesn't happen, it means that the Grozovoi is not using sector reinforcement properly and/or didn't take manual AA (making the AA build incomplete).

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1 minute ago, eliastion said:

If it doesn't happen, it means that the Grozovoi is not using sector reinforcement properly and/or didn't take manual AA (making the AA build incomplete).

 

Or I just destroy a couple of AA mounts and neuter her AA completely in my initial strike. Rockets and bombs are both excellent for that.

Grozo only gets 4 mounts each for medium and close range, meaning every gun destroyed cuts the respective DPS by 25%. And getting your AA guns destroyed is pretty much inevitable in a strike even with the buffed survivability.

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45 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Or I just destroy a couple of AA mounts and neuter her AA completely in my initial strike. Rockets and bombs are both excellent for that.

Grozo only gets 4 mounts each for medium and close range, meaning every gun destroyed cuts the respective DPS by 25%. And getting your AA guns destroyed is pretty much inevitable in a strike even with the buffed survivability.

I'm not sure about USN but Japanese rockets don't seem to be quite as reliable as you describe and bombs are AP. But regardless of that, there's a big difference between

6 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

you really have to try to overextend or collect all the flak

and "you have to fail to cripple her AA in the first attack", regardless of how great your rockets and bombs are for the job :Smile-_tongue:

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42 minutes ago, eliastion said:

I'm not sure about USN but Japanese rockets don't seem to be quite as reliable as you describe and bombs are AP.

 

The IJN rockets actually have a bit more alpha than the USN ones, but they carry fewer per RF. Obviously AP bombs won't do anything against most DDs (Khaba and Haru can eat pens if you drop them at a shallow angle, but even that has questionable efficiency to say the least).

Now HE bombs on the other hand.... Let me show you this:

Spoiler

LkZrXBW.png

 

One RF strike followed up by a single DB attack. Didn't get many AA mounts because, well, he died too fast. :Smile_trollface:

4+ hits in a single attack against a DD are fairly rare but not impossible and often deal outright match ending damage to DDs as displayed above. In fact landing all 6 can oneshot a lot of them but I've only ever had that happen once which was in test 3 against an Akizuki I believe.

 

Usually you can expect 2-3 hits if you've made your approach correctly which tends to result in 7-10k damage. Per attack. Grozo is especially vulnerable due to being one of the larger DDs, but at least she's not a Haru. That thing is a bomb magnet.

 

On a more serious note, having a low number of AA mounts is one of the substantial weaknesses in Grozo AA, the other being the overreliance on DFAA you already mentioned. The combination of both of these makes her utterly ineffective at AA against same tier CVs. Nowadays a RF attack from a Midway is really only to soften you up before the HE bombs come and kill you, so you're pretty much :etc_swear:ed regardless.

Thus you can either choose to blow your DFAA on the RFs and have no defense against the DBs, or you can save it and potentially not shoot down any DBs anyway because your AA mounts got worked over by rockets. Or are about to be destroyed by the first bomb strike which will always go through.

 

And considering AA is about to be tuned down early next week again... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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I do not in any way like the new perma spotted meta

The striking power of carriers and the resilience of their planes to AA is not the problem

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9 hours ago, kingzy2013 said:

you cant evade continuous AA dps.

 

that alone is enough to wipe planes out now. usually after a strike is done the AI decides to wait around and get shotdown for luls. 

 

let alone if you hit any flak that squad is defiantly dead.  

 

very easy for AA dps to take 1/3 of a squad out per attack run bare minimum now with no counterplay what so ever. 

Grozovoi does not have strong continous AA...

Or one could select another ship...

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