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loppantorkel

A solution to all issues - Double Random games

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I've suggested this before, but it makes more sense now than ever - divide Random Battles in two. Make players choose if they want to play the Veteran Random games variant, otherwise they end up in Normal mm queue.

 

Veteran Random game: 50% more xp earned, 20% or so more credits. You're likely to face more experienced players and you may face cvs. Possible upcoming changes and ships are tried here too.

Normal Random game: Nerfed income by some degree due to facing mostly newer players + no cvs.

 

I get that queue times could increase by a small degree, but if too long you just throw people into the Normal queue.

One reason for more secure mm is that some players just won't get better and I think them facing cvs will ultimately make them leave the game. Not just those who express their opinion on the forum. The potential to harass ships/players with cvs won't go away and honestly needs more competence to counter than I've seen in lower tiers.

 

Too many positives and too few negatives to not try this imo.

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so if a extremely experienced CV player wants to play, he gets to seal club new comers. sounds reasonable :) 

 

while on the topic, lets get a que with no destroyers also. yano, make them BB mains happy while were at it

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2 minutes ago, kingzy2013 said:

so if a extremely experienced CV player wants to play, he gets to seal club new comers. sounds reasonable :) 

 

Not sure how you conclude that from the suggestion in the OP. elaborate please?

 

 

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1 minute ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

Not sure how you conclude that from the suggestion in the OP. elaborate please?

 

 

I think I can explain. OP wants two separate queues (a "veteran" and a "normal" one) but CV players - no matter how new to the class or even the game - are forced into the "veteran" queue only.

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6 minutes ago, eliastion said:

I think I can explain. OP wants two separate queues (a "veteran" and a "normal" one) but CV players - no matter how new to the class or even the game - are forced into the "veteran" queue only.

i took it as the CVs were forced into the regular QUE not the veterans one. 

 

i think i mis-read that. but yes ether way, CVs being forced into one game mode wont end well. most of the playerbase besides AA cruisers will just go play the oposite at t10

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But what's to stop people from just all going to the Normal queue to bash the seals, thus defeating the purpose of the Veteran queue? The lack of CVs there will also be a huge draw, not for all, but many.

You get nerfed income, not that it really matters with all the flags and camos, the 'Veterans' will have, not to mention WoWs prem time, events, etc.

 

And how are the newer players in the normal queue going to feel having a gimped grind from the get go?

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2 minutes ago, Miragetank90 said:

But what's to stop people from just all going to the Normal queue to bash the seals, thus defeating the purpose of the Veteran queue?

You get nerfed income, not that it really matters with all the flags and camos, the 'Veterans' will have, not to mention WoWs prem time, events, etc.

 

And how are the newer players in the normal queue going to feel having a gimped grind from the get go?

especially at t10 where experience isn't needed anymore. unless this was introduced for people over a certain "games played" amount to qualify as a vet. but then CVs are forced into the Vet anyway new or not. 

 

as nice as new casual game modes would be, excluding certain people will always invite backlash 

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To add, how are the new players going to grind CVs without having to be forced to face ''experienced'' players in the vets queue? 

Wouldn't this discourage them from playing CVs at all, thus negatively impacting WGs stated goal of increasing the CV pop?

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That's not really better then any of the other split matchmaker suggestion threads that popped up the past week.

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28 minutes ago, eliastion said:

I think I can explain. OP wants two separate queues (a "veteran" and a "normal" one) but CV players - no matter how new to the class or even the game - are forced into the "veteran" queue only.

Yea. I'm not sure why it needed explaining. Same would go for subs when initially released. Unnecessary to introduce them to new players at start.

11 minutes ago, Egoleter said:

That's not really better then any of the other split matchmaker suggestion threads that popped up the past week.

Yea, I thought so too. Choosing between cvs or no cvs, I don't like it for the same reason bb players shouldn't be allowed to choose no dds, but given the state of the game, the complaints and honestly the competence of many players, I think cvs, even this reworked version, might be a bit too much.

 

I've suggested a veteran mode for players to choose, just to alleviate some of the frustration from the disparity of player competence. This makes more sense when testing a reworked class on a larger scale. I wonder what percentage of the playerbase reads the patch-notes or even knew about the planned rework.

 

It's a free to play game and some just want to sail around the border....

15 minutes ago, Miragetank90 said:

To add, how are the new players going to grind CVs without having to be forced to face ''experienced'' players in the vets queue? 

Wouldn't this discourage them from playing CVs at all, thus negatively impacting WGs stated goal of increasing the CV pop?

Is it so bad having to learn the other classes before you turn to cvs?

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17 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

It's a free to play game and some just want to sail around the border....

 

How exactly are you going to determine who is a veteran and who is a new player? There are players with tens of thousands of battles yet are still just as garbage, if not worse than they started out.

And how are you going to discourage veteran players from just going sealclubbing via choosing normal randoms? The only reasonable way would be to lock them out completely or make it so that even a single game utterly murders their economy.

Alternatively how are you going to solve balancing problems with CVs? Anyone with half a brain would only play ships with heavy AA in veteran queue, meaning CVs would have to be way overbuffed to make them remotely viable.

 

Just to name a few issues.

Split MM, especially when splitting off a specific class, is a horrible idea all around.

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11 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

Is it so bad having to learn the other classes before you turn to cvs?

 

Well, no offence but that doesn't address my questions.

 

And pre and post rework, you still need some experience with at least one other ship class before gaining access to your first CV. I don't find this relevant anyway, I don't find it's particularly important in which order you learn your ships... 

 

 

 

 

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Veterans would go to normal for seal-clubbing - potatoes greatly overestimate their skill and choose veteran mode. :Smile_trollface:

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56 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

How exactly are you going to determine who is a veteran and who is a new player? There are players with tens of thousands of battles yet are still just as garbage, if not worse than they started out.

And how are you going to discourage veteran players from just going sealclubbing via choosing normal randoms? The only reasonable way would be to lock them out completely or make it so that even a single game utterly murders their economy.

Alternatively how are you going to solve balancing problems with CVs? Anyone with half a brain would only play ships with heavy AA in veteran queue, meaning CVs would have to be way overbuffed to make them remotely viable.

 

Just to name a few issues.

Split MM, especially when splitting off a specific class, is a horrible idea all around.

It's up to the players to choose - lower economy and easier mm, or better rewards for tougher mm and cvs.

Easier to balance cvs when players supposedly are using AA builds, isn't it?

 

Are you a bit scared of tougher mm? :Smile_trollface:

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So a random battle where you earn more credits and exp! how about NO! Go take look at WOT game mode FRONTLINE and then come back cause that is something we need!

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Problem is tho, at t10 when exp and credits are not as important people will opt to seal club because the rewards are not good.incentive compared to roasting potatoes 

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6 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

Are you a bit scared of tougher mm? :Smile_trollface:

 

Obviously. Can't have my giant e-peen shrink you know? :Smile_trollface:

 

On a more serious note, so it is basically the usual "Exclude CVs Y/N?" stuff. Considering WG wants CVs to succeed, if only so that they can profit on them, normal randoms would have to have an economy far worse than coop for such a split to happen.

 

As for AA builds, my stance has long since been that AA builds as a whole shouldn't exist in the first place. The idea of having to specialize to be effective against a supposedly core mechanic is doomed to fail.

Still, having everyone with half a brain run around with AA builds and ships means CVs would have to get overbuffed to be viable. That means any poor sod who wanders into veteran queue in a non-AA build or a ship with weak AA is inevitably going to get slaughtered.

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What we need is acctually simple sort of ranked mode but permanent, no fixed safe points just leagues call it league mode or whatever entry league say rank 20-14 then third 13-9 second league 8-4 and premier league 3-1 all ships are permitted allmodes are awailable as are now, you get say 30% more xp and 50% more cash for a win and a star but ay 20% less xp and 30% less cash on a loss then in normal random and you lose a star, everybody should eventually settle n their league qnd notmal randoms are still there

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44 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

On a more serious note, so it is basically the usual "Exclude CVs Y/N?" stuff. Considering WG wants CVs to succeed, if only so that they can profit on them, normal randoms would have to have an economy far worse than coop for such a split to happen.

More like - easy or hard mode. Easy mode if you, God forbid, would like to play 'for fun'. Hard mode for those who wants the higher rewards. Maybe cvs (or subs) could make it into 'Normal' mode when it's all balanced?

44 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

As for AA builds, my stance has long since been that AA builds as a whole shouldn't exist in the first place. The idea of having to specialize to be effective against a supposedly core mechanic is doomed to fail.

Still, having everyone with half a brain run around with AA builds and ships means CVs would have to get overbuffed to be viable. That means any poor sod who wanders into veteran queue in a non-AA build or a ship with weak AA is inevitably going to get slaughtered.

Possibly.

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2 hours ago, Smeggo said:

Veterans would go to normal for seal-clubbing - potatoes greatly overestimate their skill and choose veteran mode. :Smile_trollface:

 

Very quickly you'd see no difference in game-play between the two modes thus normal would either be unplayed or, if restrictions are imposed on veteran mode, this just amounts to a huge nerf in new players credit/XP earning potential.

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A CV is not a powerful weapon in the hands of the clueless. But in OP plans a CV player is thrown in among the "veterans"" since he may not be in the "Normal" queue.

 

Thats a hard fail right there.

 

Clueless piloted CV automaticly put in "veteran"" random will :

 

- ruiin the game experience of their "veteran"" teammates by severely weakening them

- be outright slaughtered by competent players ( skilled  DD's players hunt CV as soon as minutes after game start...all they need is an opening in the enemy lines and some luck with passing aircraft   )

- Have a ruined game themselves because they are deplaned and get negative credits for being unable to stage hard hitting attacks.

 

A  ""simple" random - simply lobbing shells at each other like the 1st tier gameplay - and a "complex"" random - having to deal with all weaponry real ships had to deal with - has different consequences then what you suggest.

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Miragetank90 said:

But what's to stop people from just all going to the Normal queue to bash the seals, thus defeating the purpose of the Veteran queue? The lack of CVs there will also be a huge draw, not for all, but many.

You get nerfed income, not that it really matters with all the flags and camos, the 'Veterans' will have, not to mention WoWs prem time, events, etc.

 

And how are the newer players in the normal queue going to feel having a gimped grind from the get go?

Yeah this is a good point. At least speaking for myself, I don't really care at all about either XP or credits. 200 million credits and largely play my old favourite ships with 19 point captains -- it literally makes zero difference how many XP or credits I make.

 

If you give me an explicitly "easy mode" queue, it may start sounding quite attractive.

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15 minutes ago, jss78 said:

Yeah this is a good point. At least speaking for myself, I don't really care at all about either XP or credits. 200 million credits and largely play my old favourite ships with 19 point captains -- it literally makes zero difference how many XP or credits I make.

 

If you give me an explicitly "easy mode" queue, it may start sounding quite attractive.

No one would prevent you. It's the normal mode. Maybe the tone would get better in battles too when people know it's a more casual environment you've opted for.

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