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Luke6_31

Lützow 150mm CL?

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Wondering if anyone would be interested in seeing the hypothetical 4x3 150mm version of the Admiral Hipper? The Seydlitz and Lützow were planned as the answer to the British Town-Class. So could be an intriguing option for fans of Kriegsmarine Cruisers to have a similar ship available.

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Having a light German cruiser that doesn't just disappear in an explosion, when someone looks at him funny, would be nice.

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Sounds interesting, why not?

probably would be a T7, and could offer a fun alternative to Hipper or Prinz Eugen

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I would love to see those too. The only thing is that they use names that may be needed for other ships. For example, I would have preferred that instead of Yorck we got Blucher because is more historical; just give her old pre buff Hipper guns and would be nice. Then it leaves the Yorck name free for the Ersatz Yorck class of BCs. 

About Seydlitz and Lutzow, the former I think should not used because is the same name of the most probable tier 4 of the BC tree. But Lutzow could be nice, because it could act as a Boise/Nueve de Julio for the russian Navy too and, if they ever do that, Admiral Sheer could be the tier 6 without worrying about the Deutchland aka Lutzow panzershiffe. 

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4 hours ago, Centurion_1711 said:

Sounds interesting, why not?

probably would be a T7, and could offer a fun alternative to Hipper or Prinz Eugen

How would it be T7? It's basically a Hipper, one of the tankiest T8 cruisers, but with guns that actually have dpm. 

4 hours ago, FrankvC_Jr said:

I would love to see those too. The only thing is that they use names that may be needed for other ships. For example, I would have preferred that instead of Yorck we got Blucher because is more historical; just give her old pre buff Hipper guns and would be nice. Then it leaves the Yorck name free for the Ersatz Yorck class of BCs. 

Just because the ships were planned as replacement for the old Yorck does not mean they'd again be named Yorck.

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12 hours ago, Luke6_31 said:

Wondering if anyone would be interested in seeing the hypothetical 4x3 150mm version of the Admiral Hipper? The Seydlitz and Lützow were planned as the answer to the British Town-Class. So could be an intriguing option for fans of Kriegsmarine Cruisers to have a similar ship available.

 

Better save the name for the real Lützow in her actual 1916 outfit !

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32 minutes ago, Seiranko said:

Just because the ships were planned as replacement for the old Yorck does not mean they'd again be named Yorck.

Yeah I get that; if you go to my proposal about the BC tree, you can see that we actually christened her Clausewitz. But I still would love to get the Blucher instead of nowadays Yorck, because is a real ship and not a paper precursor to Spee. 

 

32 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

 

Better save the name for the real Lützow in her actual 1916 outfit !

It would be a tier bully with the combination of firepower, speed and tankiness it has. Look how the Viribus got moved to tier 5 (which I hope is not final).

 

In tier 4 I feel we need a Goeben/Yavuz for German/panEuro tree. It would be really nice to have our beloved Sultan as a German Nueve de Julio/Boise thing don’t you agree?

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16 minutes ago, FrankvC_Jr said:

Yeah I get that; if you go to my proposal about the BC tree, you can see that we actually christened her Clausewitz. But I still would love to get the Blucher instead of nowadays Yorck, because is a real ship and not a paper precursor to Spee. 

 

It would be a tier bully with the combination of firepower, speed and tankiness it has. Look how the Viribus got moved to tier 5 (which I hope is not final).

 

In tier 4 I feel we need a Goeben/Yavuz for German/panEuro tree. It would be really nice to have our beloved Sultan as a German Nueve de Julio/Boise thing don’t you agree?

 

A Goeben / Yavuz thingy would be awesome!

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3 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

 

A Goeben / Yavuz thingy would be awesome!

That is what the safest bet I would say. It would leave Seydlitz for tree, which would have its differences and then we can have the WW2 Hipper class Lutzow for doing the same with USRR tree. We can get a Kutuzov substitute and a German CL for the prize of one! 

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I was thinking you could take the Nurnberg guns and they would scale to tier 7. Couple with maybe the a hipper hull and it might work as a tier 7. However, Belfast is a tier 7 premium town-class cruiser but Edinburgh is tier 8. So it could also work as a tier 8 if needed but I thought the presence if prinz eugen would fill tier 8 premium slot. So makes more sense as a tier 7. Similar to how ashitaka and mutsu are lower tier copypasta of line ships.

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58 minutes ago, Luke6_31 said:

Couple with maybe the a hipper hull and it might work as a tier 7. However, Belfast is a tier 7 premium town-class cruiser but Edinburgh is tier 8. So it could also work as a tier 8 if needed but I thought the presence if prinz eugen would fill tier 8 premium slot. So makes more sense as a tier 7. Similar to how ashitaka and mutsu are lower tier copypasta of line ships.

The problem with the Hippers hull is that it is really tanky for a tier 8 cruiser, and putting that at tier 7 would make it stupidly survivable unless you tweak some values. The Edinburgh and Belfast deal is that both hulls are just alright in terms of protection. And the Edinburgh gets the super heal to offset the flimsy armor so it works in that sense.

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3 minutes ago, ollonborre said:

The problem with the Hippers hull is that it is really tanky for a tier 8 cruiser, and putting that at tier 7 would make it stupidly survivable unless you tweak some values. The Edinburgh and Belfast deal is that both hulls are just alright in terms of protection. And the Edinburgh gets the super heal to offset the flimsy armor so it works in that sense.

And the trouble with Nurnberg guns is they are not great. You have an extra turret but not much else. So good range but poor damage. You could have a survivable cruiser without a heal but not good main armament (In terms of raw damage) but with good close torps, AA, hydro or Def AA. Similar idea is seen with the duca degli abruzzi but it wouldn't need heal as it is Hipper-class cruiser.

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1 hour ago, Luke6_31 said:

I was thinking you could take the Nurnberg guns and they would scale to tier 7. Couple with maybe the a hipper hull and it might work as a tier 7. However, Belfast is a tier 7 premium town-class cruiser but Edinburgh is tier 8. So it could also work as a tier 8 if needed but I thought the presence if prinz eugen would fill tier 8 premium slot. So makes more sense as a tier 7. Similar to how ashitaka and mutsu are lower tier copypasta of line ships.

The reason Nürnberg is at T6 is not the guns, but the survivability. Nürnberg is one of the cruisers most known for just getting oneshot or eating citadels from any angle. In exchange, Nürnberg has practically the most firepower of any T6 CL. It rivalled Cleveland when it was T6. Meanwhile Hipper has the best hull of any T8 cruiser. It is balanced at T8 by having garbage dpm. Now consider what happens when you put 12 Nürnberg guns with 6 second reload on a Hipper hull. You basically have the tankiest T8 cruiser with firepower that in AP dpm utterly outclasses anything at T8 and in terms of HE dpm that only gets beaten by 155 Mogami and Cleveland. But without 4 points required for IFHE. Tell me, how the hell is that ever going to be balanced at T8? And you think this is appropriate for T7?

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15 minutes ago, Seiranko said:

The reason Nürnberg is at T6 is not the guns, but the survivability. Nürnberg is one of the cruisers most known for just getting oneshot or eating citadels from any angle. In exchange, Nürnberg has practically the most firepower of any T6 CL. It rivalled Cleveland when it was T6. Meanwhile Hipper has the best hull of any T8 cruiser. It is balanced at T8 by having garbage dpm. Now consider what happens when you put 12 Nürnberg guns with 6 second reload on a Hipper hull. You basically have the tankiest T8 cruiser with firepower that in AP dpm utterly outclasses anything at T8 and in terms of HE dpm that only gets beaten by 155 Mogami and Cleveland. But without 4 points required for IFHE. Tell me, how the hell is that ever going to be balanced at T8? And you think this is appropriate for T7?

So what you are saying is we can have another completely broken tier 7 cruiser to rival the Belfast? Sounds good....

 

Also, haven't put any work into balancing this idea. I just offered it as an idea for the community to play with. I think it has a degree of possibility as a tier 7 with a bit of work. I think as an actual paper ship which came very close to being built it might have a place in WoWS. Especially as there is a gap for a tier 7 Kreigsmarine cruiser premium. 

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1 hour ago, Luke6_31 said:

So what you are saying is we can have another completely broken tier 7 cruiser to rival the Belfast? Sounds good....

 

Also, haven't put any work into balancing this idea. I just offered it as an idea for the community to play with. I think it has a degree of possibility as a tier 7 with a bit of work. I think as an actual paper ship which came very close to being built it might have a place in WoWS. Especially as there is a gap for a tier 7 Kreigsmarine cruiser premium. 

No, we don't need more OP ships. And WG just recently stated they are looking into adressing OP premiums.

 

It frankly is mistiered at T7. It has no reason to be there. Yes, there is no T7 KM premium cruiser, but guess what? There also is no T7 USN premium BB, yet we got two of them at t6 and T8 each and that's fine this way. Premiums should be fitted into tiers they make sense, not where it is convenient, as you'd need to absolutely nerf this ship into the ground to make it acceptable at T7. Even as a T8 premium it basically would be imo a better ship than Hipper and only would avoid being broken as hell if it keeps the 16.5 km range.

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10 hours ago, Centurion_1711 said:

Sounds interesting, why not?

probably would be a T7, and could offer a fun alternative to Hipper or Prinz Eugen

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If u are wondering what I'm on about, well, they are racking up points for me on fantasy. :Smile_glasses:

And as a Liverpool supporter I love to watch Wolves play. Your team is fantastic this year.

 

And yes OP, I know....I know it isn't part of the topic. Forgive me. I just had to. :Smile_teethhappy:

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