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puxflacet

A note about AA sector reinforcement

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I think this feature has a potential to bring something into the game. The CV gameplay desperately needs some tactical element. Make the tactical play about CVs finding a weakspot in the team's AA cover. The planes have speed and manoeuvrability for that task.

 

- Reinforced sectors have to make a real difference compare to weakened ones, practically making reinforced sector no fly zone.

- CV has to see the sectors of enemy ships all the time in order to plan the attacks.

uxaGD0Y.jpg

 

- Players should also see sectors of ally ships when they push some key (maybe just ALT, whatever). This will enable them to cover each other and deny enemy planes solution for the attack.

GjiV8le.jpg

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I like the idea a lot, but it comes down to a nerf to the effectiveness of defensive AA of ships as you now know where to go to exploit it's weak side, and where to fly past other ships AA  if you want to attack a ship on the other side. Besides what will you do if no sector is activated ?

 

This is more something a single player game would have to control difficulty to the average player. One should hide his intentions from the enemy Sun Tzu says......

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59 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

Besides what will you do if no sector is activated ?

Would make mandatory to choose one, ships even starting with one side selected

59 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

One should hide its intentions from the enemy Sun Tzu says......

But the whole point is to open up some tactical play. That can not be done without informations. Right know its just russian roulette, you have no clue. CVs are picking their targets just based on their tier and distance from the team, but everything you can do after that is just cross your fingers and pray.

59 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

I like the idea a lot, but it comes down to a nerf to the effectiveness of defensive AA of ships as you now know where to go to exploit it's weak side, and where to fly past other ships AA  if you want to attack a ship on the other side.

Well yeah, exactly. Even now you are trying to do so - turn the reinforced sector towards the incoming planes. If CV could see that, you could force him to move his planes into proper position or just scare him off.

 

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Is there actually any practical point to AA sectors as they stand?

 

Unless you're camping beside an island so the CV can only torp you in one direction or if you're part of a blob and have made a ring of AA...

 

It takes so long to switch and planes are fast enough to just fly around. Still I guess currently the CV doesn't know which side is reinforced.

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1 hour ago, Negativvv said:

Is there actually any practical point to AA sectors as they stand?

I'm not convinced there is, at least based on playing DDs since the rework - the time it takes to mess with your sectors could be better used dodging etc.

 

That view is also based a bit on how I've been playing too i.e. only fire up AA when the planes are right on top of you, and so can't immediately escape from your AA bubble; but that does also mean that they're moving way too fast for sector changes to keep up much of the time (and you're probably manoeuvering hard too, further eroding sector usefulness).

 

I much preferred the ctrl-click thing we used to have (and still have on secondaries); besides being a consistent mechanic across everything that wasn't main guns/torps, it's more effective for anything that spends a lot of time turning hard whilst under attack. 

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1 hour ago, Negativvv said:

Is there actually any practical point to AA sectors as they stand?

It's a very practical point when you're in a destroyer, as far as I can say. You can switch sides* in 5 seconds, and you can turn quickly enough to give circling planes a run for their money unless the little buggers fly straight over your head.

 

*AA sides, not teams.

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5 minutes ago, Verblonde said:

I'm not convinced there is, at least based on playing DDs since the rework - the time it takes to mess with your sectors could be better used dodging etc.

 

That view is also based a bit on how I've been playing too i.e. only fire up AA when the planes are right on top of you, and so can't immediately escape from your AA bubble; but that does also mean that they're moving way too fast for sector changes to keep up much of the time (and you're probably manoeuvering hard too, further eroding sector usefulness).

 

I much preferred the ctrl-click thing we used to have (and still have on secondaries); besides being a consistent mechanic across everything that wasn't main guns/torps, it's more effective for anything that spends a lot of time turning hard whilst under attack. 

I keep meaning to designate the space bar (or some other easy to reach key) for switching between AA sectors. Having to reach all the way to O is a major pain. Although I believe that if you wait until the planes are clearly coming for you, you've already waited too long - I try to predict a direction from whence I excpect them, and keep that cheek turned, so to speak. And I also liked the old ctrl-click mechanic, not least because it offered an easily accessible way to quickly turn on your AA. 

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1 hour ago, Negativvv said:

Is there actually any practical point to AA sectors as they stand?

 

Unless you're camping beside an island so the CV can only torp you in one direction or if you're part of a blob and have made a ring of AA...

 

It takes so long to switch and planes are fast enough to just fly around. Still I guess currently the CV doesn't know which side is reinforced.

 

Actually the switch is always 100%. It al depends on the moment you activate your switch. It's a little bit stupid to press the switch if the planes are already above you (or already have done their attact). Knowing it takes seconds to have the switch.

 

It's gonna ask a little bit of skill and experience to know when you have to activate the switch. It's like aiming. You don't shoot at the ship. You shoot, in most cases, in front of the ship.

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1 minute ago, Procrastes said:

And I also liked the old ctrl-click mechanic, not least because it offered an easily accessible way to quickly turn on your AA. 

You're right - that was another plus to the ctrl-click methodology. My current approach is to trigger Def AA the moment my plane 'detected' icon switches on (assuming it isn't on cooldown) for similar swift activation.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Procrastes said:

I keep meaning to designate the space bar (or some other easy to reach key) for switching between AA sectors. Having to reach all the way to O is a major pain. ...

You don't have to reach all the way to O, just press the "~" key which is right next to "1" key.

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7 minutes ago, Verblonde said:

You're right - that was another plus to the ctrl-click methodology. My current approach is to trigger Def AA the moment my plane 'detected' icon switches on (assuming it isn't on cooldown) for similar swift activation.

So that also works? Nifty - thanks a bunch for telling me! :Smile_great:

 

3 minutes ago, Gebe_ said:

You don't have to reach all the way to O, just press the "~" key which is right next to "1" key.

Not on a Swedish keyboard, it isn't. It's actually even further off than O... :Smile_teethhappy:

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1 minute ago, Procrastes said:

Not on a Swedish keyboard, it isn't. It's actually even further off than O... :Smile_teethhappy:

Damn :) Do you have any key to the left of "1"? I'd rebind to that key, feels fairly comfortable.

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57 minutes ago, Verblonde said:

I'm not convinced there is, at least based on playing DDs since the rework - the time it takes to mess with your sectors could be better used dodging etc.

 

I was in a battle in my Sims last night and that was the problem for me - I thought I was switching the AA sectors to match the planes while attempting to move out of the way of torp hits (which I mostly did) but had less luck with the rocket attacks.  This was against a T6 Ryoko which had decided to make my game a misery.  In the end the T7 Lexington finished me off with a final rocket attack.

 

I did attempt to switch the AA sector but the planes were able to attack from the other side way too quickly for me.

 

I also found at least once the attack planes just vanished without trace (my AA stopped firing) and then reappeared.

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44 minutes ago, Procrastes said:

Not on a Swedish keyboard, it isn't. It's actually even further off than O... :Smile_teethhappy:

On my laptop the '~' key is three keys to the right of the 'L' key (and a row down and three keys from the 'O' key).

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11 minutes ago, BrusilovX said:

I did attempt to switch the AA sector but the planes were able to attack from the other side way too quickly for me.

I gave the new mechanic a bit of a poke early on, but concluded that one's time in a DD could be better spent elsewhere.

 

Even something like Kidd doesn't generally have the AA oompf to stop an incoming strike dead (or at least, I believe so), so one's aim is to minimise the damage you take, whilst maximising the damage the enemy planes take (this rewards you more, as well as the immediate tactical benefits), as well as distracting the enemy CV for as long as possible.

 

In that context, the AA sectors thing isn't worth the distraction (IMO, of course) from doing things that will help you achieve the aforementioned (especially, if you're a bit on the middle-aged side, as I am). I suspect this calculus might well change with a less nimble ship type, and/or longer engagement ranges, and/or much slower planes though.

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2 minutes ago, Verblonde said:

In that context, the AA sectors thing isn't worth the distraction (IMO, of course) from doing things that will help you achieve the aforementioned (especially, if you're a bit on the middle-aged side, as I am). I suspect this calculus might well change with a less nimble ship type, and/or longer engagement ranges, and/or much slower planes though.

I was born in 1959.....

 

I honestly don't expect a DD to take down an attack maybe just disrupt it a bit (this was what the old CV gameplay did).

 

The only thing I did in that game was to shoot down 24 of the Ryoko's planes -I did fire off some torps against a cruiser at 7km (it came out from behind an island although it had been spotted in the area before) but was never able to get close to the enemy ships to fire.  The enemy CV was able to send planes back so fast I could no relocate fast enough to not be spotted again.

 

For me the only place to play a DD now  is in Co-op, ranked or scenario battles.

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2 minutes ago, BrusilovX said:

For me the only place to play a DD now  is in Co-op, ranked or scenario battles.

For the most part, I agree with you - sadly. The only (possible) exceptions are a few US and Russian boats with Def AA, and a decent AA build.

 

I've been having quite a bit of fun with Kidd, Gearing and Groz, mainly, the last few evenings, going out plane hunting; otherwise, all my DDs are either mothballed, or being used in the modes you mention. The builds for the former do gimp you a bit if the game ever allows you to play as a DD actually should, but not catastrophically so...

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In Random games, organising a team to cover each other, will very very rarely work. 
Many players refuse to speak or acknowledge English. Other players don't care about
teamwork and are chasing individual goals. Some won't know what you're talking about. 
Expecting random groups of players to suddenly become a team, every time they start
a new game, with new players, is like expecting it to rain beer.  

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I personally think they should bring back ALSO the old system of selecting target. This way WG could lower current continuous damage and at the same time increase flak damage, and bring more skill factor. For example these changes:

 

1: Lower Continuous damage -50% from current.

 

2: Flak damage +25% stronger than we have now

 

3: Selecting correct reinforcement +10% more effective than what we have now.

 

4: Alt-click target (selecting target) gives another +35% more continuous AA power.

 

This way player has 2 ways to reinforce AA and they stack. If player really focuses on AA, it will be very effective, but if he ignores it, the drops are much easier.

 

Also both of these reinforcements should be visible to carrier

 

 

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20 hours ago, Gebe_ said:

Damn :) Do you have any key to the left of "1"? I'd rebind to that key, feels fairly comfortable.

The key to the left of 1 is §. I guess that might work. I was thinking about the space bar, however... but maybe that would mess up some other key figuration?

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21 hours ago, Procrastes said:

*AA sides, not teams.

Inb4 Leone gimmick joke :fish_aqua:

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23 hours ago, Negativvv said:

Is there actually any practical point to AA sectors as they stand?

There is, actually. They help to give meaning to AA DDs. A DD normally has pitiful AA that wouldn't matter after the def. AA stopped impacting the aiming spreads directly. But when you take manual AA, you get a 20-180% distribution of AA, almost doubling the "correct" side's DPS. You can also maneuver better than bigger ships AND (especially with that manual AA you've taken) you flip the reinforcement very quickly, letting you pretty effectively keep the enemy planes within your reinforced zone - as long as you can focus on that (as in, all your attention isn't completely focused on the incoming enemy shells). Slap improved (+200% rather than +100% the cruisers get) defensive AA on top of that and you can briefly become a quite respectable AA platform, actually capable of defending yourself from rocket planes (it's not like you avoid all damage if you're alone but an equal tier CV will suffer for trying to go after you - and woe to a lower tier one that tries to hunt you down), wiping the sky of spotting fighters or providing considerable aid to the AA blob of nearby friendly ships when it's not you that's coming under direct attack.

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