Jump to content
You need to play a total of 50 battles to post in this section.
Leo_Apollo11

Was there any info from WG regarding different AA FLAK values for same guns but placed on different tier ships?

20 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

[SCRUB]
Quality Poster
3,538 posts
10,425 battles

Hi all,

 

Was there any info from WG regarding different AA FLAK values for same guns but placed on different tier ships?

 

 

For example:  The "Bismarck" and the "Scharnhorst" in v0.8.0 had same values for FLAK:

 

ObrGIBy.jpg

 

but in current v0.8.0.1 (i.e. "HotFix") FLAK values now show large difference (please note that the "WoWs Fitting Tool" still has data from v0.8.0 - I can't post picture from current v0.8.0.1 from it):

 

"Bismarck" FLAK "Aura Far" = 1.700 (from 2.100)

"Scharnhorst" FLAK "Aura Far" = 300  (from 2.100)

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SCRUB]
Players
8,460 posts
11,278 battles

Apparently AA performance no also depends on tiering, with a MASSIVE jump in performance from tier VII to VIII as you can also see in the Scharnhorst/Bismarck case, let me just quote myself from another thread on this matter:

 

20 hours ago, Aotearas said:

So, just logged in for the first time and it's really nonsensical:

 

This is my Sims longrange AA (both ships have the same DP guns with the 127mm/38 Mk30 mod.0, same captain without AA perks, both ships have the AA guns mod.1):

  Reveal hidden contents

shot-19-02-07-14-52-36-0386.jpg

 

4 flank bursts per salvo, flak burst dps is 420, continuous dps is 70 @ 95% hit propability.

 

This is my Kidd longrange AA (both ships have the same DP guns with the 127mm/38 Mk30 mod.0, same captain without AA perks, both ships have the AA guns mod.1):

  Reveal hidden contents

shot-19-02-07-14-51-40-0154.jpg

 

6 flak bursts per salvo, flak burst dps is 1610, continuous dps is 93 @ 95% hit propability.

 

So compared to the Sims with its 4x 127mm/30 Mk30 mod.0, the Kidd with its 5x literally the same guns gets:

  • Two additional flak bursts per salvo despite only getting one additional gun. Going from on burst per gun on the Sims to 1,2 bursts per gun on the Kidd. A straight up 20% improvement in per gun bursts.
  • Almost 4x as much flak burst dps (3,83x rounded to second decimal digit) despite only getting one additional gun. Per gun that is 322 AA flak burst dps on the Kidd which comes disturbingly close to what the total Sims flak burst dps is at 420 with 105 flak burst dps per gun. A 307% (!!!) improvement in per gun flak burst dps.
  • 93 continuous AA dps compared to Sims' 70 despite only getting one additional gun. Per gun that is 18,6 continuous dps compared to the Sims' per gun 17,5 continuous dps. A 6% improvement in per gun continous dps.
  • Sims longrange AA sector starts at 1,5km compared to the Kidd's 3,5km, but that is because the Sims doesn't get any midrange guns and should thus be waived as a comparative element.

 

 

 

Same AA gun, one tier difference ... 20%, 307% (!!!) and 6% improvements in AA characteristics respectively.

 

Can someone from WG please explain the rationale behind those numbers?

 

Wouldn't mind getting an answer to the question originally stated in my comment @Sub_Octavian, @MrConway.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SCRUB]
Quality Poster
3,538 posts
10,425 battles

Hi all,

 

10 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

Apparently AA performance no also depends on tiering, with a MASSIVE jump in performance from tier VII to VIII as you can also see in the Scharnhorst/Bismarck case, let me just quote myself from another thread on this matter:

 

 

Wouldn't mind getting an answer to the question originally stated in my comment @Sub_Octavian, @MrConway.

 

Lets have our collective fingers crossed because this looks totally illogical especially since both ships mentioned can see same enemy CV (Tier VI and Tier VIII)...

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[-AP-]
Players
1,729 posts
4,182 battles

Just a simple "intentional because x"  or "we did an oopsie"  will do wargaming, I'd love to know the answer to this question 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[OP]
Beta Tester
94 posts
4,497 battles
8 minutes ago, Leo_Apollo11 said:

since both ships mentioned can see same enemy CV (Tier VI and Tier VIII)...

This is not correct, Bismarck can meet Tier X CVs.

However an explanation from WG would be appreciated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SCRUB]
Quality Poster
3,538 posts
10,425 battles

Hi all,

 

3 minutes ago, Dehtre said:

This is not correct, Bismarck can meet Tier X CVs.

 

Both "Bismarck" and "Scharnhorst" can see CVs from Tier VI and Tier VIII? Right?

 

But true... "Bismarck" can also see CVs from Tier X - but that is not issue here... :Smile_hiding:

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SCRUB]
Players
8,460 posts
11,278 battles
3 minutes ago, Dehtre said:

This is not correct, Bismarck can meet Tier X CVs.

Doesn't change the fact that tier VI CVs can still meet both ships ...

 

Right now after the hotfix there's basically no reason to play the tier VI CVs. As soon as you get uptired into a tier VIII game your airplanes are useless. Even if you get a drop off, the returning airplanes are all shot down before making it to immunity altitude.

 

Just had a game in my Ranger where an Atago of all things annihilated my aircraft. Let me repeat that for emphasis, an Atago ... the probably worst tier VIII cruiser in the game when it comes to AA.

 

 

Until the next hotfix rolls around I'll just play the tier X CVs only.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[CPC]
[CPC]
Quality Poster
2,187 posts
5,299 battles
21 minutes ago, thiextar said:

Just a simple "intentional because x"  or "we did an oopsie"  will do wargaming, I'd love to know the answer to this question 

The answer is simple : WG corrected the AA values for T8+ to have them able to deal with T10 CV which are rather powerful ...

 

Lower tier ships don't see T10 CV so they can have lower damage as lower tier CV are quite meh et far less dangerous.

 

And you then have T8 CV that you can now call schrodinger CV : in a T10 game, they can't do anything, and when they face T6 or T7, they can just ignore flak bursts.

 

Perfect WG balance, XAXAXA !! Now let's put totally unbalanced english CV in .8.1 to call that rework done and switch to more important subject : Russian Battleships !!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
5,441 posts
6,734 battles
32 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

Just had a game in my Ranger where an Atago of all things annihilated my aircraft. Let me repeat that for emphasis, an Atago ... the probably worst tier VIII cruiser in the game when it comes to AA.

It is the worst AA cruiser at T8 (and could compete for worst AA ship at T8 if IJN torp DDs didn't exist). In the past it outperformed Edin with defAA on, but given how much defAA matters now...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[-AP-]
Players
1,729 posts
4,182 battles
23 minutes ago, NoirLotus said:

The answer is simple : WG corrected the AA values for T8+ to have them able to deal with T10 CV which are rather powerful ...

 

Lower tier ships don't see T10 CV so they can have lower damage as lower tier CV are quite meh et far less dangerous.

 

And you then have T8 CV that you can now call schrodinger CV : in a T10 game, they can't do anything, and when they face T6 or T7, they can just ignore flak bursts.

 

Perfect WG balance, XAXAXA !! Now let's put totally unbalanced english CV in .8.1 to call that rework done and switch to more important subject : Russian Battleships !!

If that is why they did it, their stupidity is beyond measure lol. Just balance the different tiers instead of a massive wall of flak at tier 8....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[CPC]
[CPC]
Quality Poster
2,187 posts
5,299 battles
17 minutes ago, thiextar said:

If that is why they did it, their stupidity is beyond measure lol. Just balance the different tiers instead of a massive wall of flak at tier 8....

Problem is that with this new "AA damage each plane", you can't hardly get balance : if a ship has its AA power set to fight planes of its own tier, then T-2 CV won't be able to approach and then attack him, but T+2 CV will be able to ignore the AA damage and will wreck him ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[WG-EU]
[WG-EU]
WG Staff, Alpha Tester
2,701 posts
2,666 battles
1 hour ago, Aotearas said:

Apparently AA performance no also depends on tiering, with a MASSIVE jump in performance from tier VII to VIII as you can also see in the Scharnhorst/Bismarck case, let me just quote myself from another thread on this matter:

 

 

Wouldn't mind getting an answer to the question originally stated in my comment @Sub_Octavian, @MrConway.

 

Good question, I'll endeavour to find out.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[WG-EU]
[WG-EU]
WG Staff, Alpha Tester
2,701 posts
2,666 battles

Found out quicker than expected. :)

 

Devs are aware that there is a lot of inconsistency in the tier 8+ flak burst damage right now, this is not intended.

 

We're working on a fix and further tweaks to AA damage right now and will update all of you as soon as we have concrete information!

  • Cool 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SCRUB]
Quality Poster
3,538 posts
10,425 battles

Hi all,

 

7 minutes ago, MrConway said:

Found out quicker than expected. :)

 

Devs are aware that there is a lot of inconsistency in the tier 8+ flak burst damage right now, this is not intended.

 

We're working on a fix and further tweaks to AA damage right now and will update all of you as soon as we have concrete information! 

 

Thanks for info - much appreciated! :Smile_honoring:

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SCRUB]
Players
8,460 posts
11,278 battles
5 minutes ago, MrConway said:

Found out quicker than expected. :)

 

Devs are aware that there is a lot of inconsistency in the tier 8+ flak burst damage right now, this is not intended.

 

We're working on a fix and further tweaks to AA damage right now and will update all of you as soon as we have concrete information!

Just an idea, but perhaps take your time with the next tweak so it actually fixes stuff without introducing another unintended inconsistency. The recent hotfix just reeks of being rushed with little plan nor testing just to calm the hype that was OBVIOUSLY going to happen when you introduce an as of yet unbalanced shipclass into the live servers.

 

Also, someone lock the tool closet in the balancing department, just to make sure they don't apply the hammer again. Can't be very good for those poor keyboards.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[OP]
Beta Tester
94 posts
4,497 battles
1 hour ago, Leo_Apollo11 said:

Both "Bismarck" and "Scharnhorst" can see CVs from Tier VI and Tier VIII? Right?

Since you worded it like "can see same enemy CV" it felt to me like you meant "only". Sorry for nibbling :cap_look:

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[WG-EU]
[WG-EU]
WG Staff, Alpha Tester
2,701 posts
2,666 battles
1 hour ago, Aotearas said:

Just an idea, but perhaps take your time with the next tweak so it actually fixes stuff without introducing another unintended inconsistency. The recent hotfix just reeks of being rushed with little plan nor testing just to calm the hype that was OBVIOUSLY going to happen when you introduce an as of yet unbalanced shipclass into the live servers.

 

Also, someone lock the tool closet in the balancing department, just to make sure they don't apply the hammer again. Can't be very good for those poor keyboards.

 

That is the plan, but we really had to release at least a preliminary fix to make sure @El2aZeR doesn't singlehandedly cause a drop in player population. :cap_rambo:

  • Funny 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[ADRIA]
[ADRIA]
Players
4,945 posts
7,206 battles
2 minutes ago, MrConway said:

That is the plan, but we really had to release at least a preliminary fix to make sure @El2aZeR doesn't singlehandedly cause a drop in player population. :cap_rambo:

From what I've seen it didn't work, he's still winning :Smile_trollface:

  • Funny 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SCRUB]
Players
8,460 posts
11,278 battles
1 minute ago, MrConway said:

 

That is the plan, but we really had to release at least a preliminary fix to make sure @El2aZeR doesn't singlehandedly cause a drop in player population. :cap_rambo:

 

Well, WG could've waited with the CV rework release until a bit later after doing more internal/PTS testing on AA values and spare themselves the pressure trying to hotfix something in a hurry they knew was going to be a problem. It's not like many people predicted something like this to happen ... feels a bit hollow now but still: "we told you so".

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
4,528 posts
9,851 battles

AAA scaling badly per tier was always the largest issue with CVs.

 

So of course WG goes and makes it worse.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×