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70 air kills in a Repu...without AA build

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2 minutes ago, Maaseru said:

Btw you don't need to call your little buddies to support you... Nvm forget it, why even bother with the forum warrios. I should know better...

Do you always discuss on this level? Who did he call? Again, you are very unspecific but throw heavy words around.

 

3 minutes ago, Maaseru said:

Uhh 95% of this playerbase? Since that is exactly what they want and expect...

Seeing how you are wrong judging people in this thread, I kinda have problems buying your 95%. I dont see 50.000+ people whining on the forums. And I dont see the reason for you stomping in this thread the way you did.

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4 minutes ago, Maaseru said:

I read it, so what is your point? "One drop max" is also kinda questionable which might be okay refering to having full AA avaiable but if you lost some that shouldn't be the case then.

 

You put words in my mouth saying i want "immunity against CV" which i clearly did not say. Basicly i said the opposite. I even explained roughly which ships should be vulnerable to CVs, and which not so much.

Guess you are just pissy that they nerfed Haku abuse, and you leash out on others who are argueing for balancing the game.

 

4 minutes ago, Maaseru said:

Btw you don't need to call your little buddies to support you... Nvm forget it, why even bother with the forum warrios. I should know better...

Obviously you are the forum warrior... basicly just straight up lying about something i did not say. Now you assume me calling in my buddies :cap_fainting:We have both been posting the last couple of hours, so both of us were around...

 

 

4 minutes ago, Maaseru said:

Uhh 95% of this playerbase? Since that is exactly what they want and expect...

Pretty clear what you want tho :cap_hmm: And it aint balancing!

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42 minutes ago, Maaseru said:

 

Yes, against equally skilled opponents you will probably die in your DM but you will inflect a lot of damage in return. However no matter what your captain or ship looks like you shouldn't be immune to anyone. A CV should always be able to drop your DM if he decides to do so but it will (and should) obviously hurt him.

You guys will cry until you are immune to a CV and will shoot down every single plane before they can even drop and that should NEVER be the case. There are no captain perks in this game which make my DM immune to DD torps. I have counters like radar (and hydro if you choose to slot it) but if radar is on CD nothing prevents the DD from sailing 6km next to you and torp you in the face. That being said if your def AA is on CD you should never be immune to a CV as well, what are you guys smoking? No class is immune to anyone, no matter if that is your so called "natural counter" like CA vs DD, BB vs CA or DD vs BB... And yes I'm playing all classes and will continue playing all classes!

This.

 

Wooster, dm, mino etc are all but weak ships that needs some compensation for that "weakness" (compensation in the form of godlike AA). With 5 BBs per game, of course there's always a chance  of being oneshot, but mid and late game, when ships have been taken down, they are imho too strong. If you're gonna allow CVs being unable to strike them (as it is now by the way), that's going way too far.

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Alle 8/2/2019 alle 03:29, DFens_666 ha scritto:

 

You put words in my mouth saying i want "immunity against CV" which i clearly did not say. Basicly i said the opposite. I even explained roughly which ships should be vulnerable to CVs, and which not so much.

Guess you are just pissy that they nerfed Haku abuse, and you leash out on others who are argueing for balancing the game.

 

*edited* Or i guess it's again basic internet behavior of feeling attacked/offended all the time... I simply said that no ship should be immune against anyone, I don't understand what that has to do with you? If you felt addressed then that is up to you.

Balancing? It's funny when the community is talking about balance when most of the guys sadly don't even understand what balancing means which we found out the hard way after this community was involved in balancing the Graf Zeppelin...

No need to answer btw since you guys seem a bit special I won't bother arguing any further.

Edited by NickMustaine
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13 minutes ago, Maaseru said:

If you felt addressed then that is up to you.

 

You quote him = you adress him. Shouldnt have done that if you wanted to adress someone else. Discussion 1x1.

 

18 minutes ago, Saiyko said:

With 5 BBs per game, of course there's always a chance  of being oneshot, but mid and late game, when ships have been taken down, they are imho too strong. If you're gonna allow CVs being unable to strike them (as it is now by the way), that's going way too far.

 

But if those 5 BBs cant deal with a Mino then... maybe that team deserves to lose? Yes, It sucks for that good CV player, if he loses because of having potatos on his side, but thats not a new thing in this game right? It happens to everyone of us all the time in any ship so I dont see this as an argument why it shouldnt apply to a CV. Also, to be a real threat to the CV, you need to play your Mino offensive. The 8,2 km bubble is history. Today, I was only able to protect that random Kitakaze by literally beeing in the cap with him. I cant really comment on how the interaction Mino/T10 CV atm is, didnt get to play/test enough today. The one time, I was against a Midway, he avoided me all the time.

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Alle 7/2/2019 alle 22:26, 1MajorKoenig ha scritto:

Ah look who is here. How many CV games do you have? 0? Yes you must be a good person to ask

yea he is the mr know it all person of the forum and in reality he doesn"t*edited*..Now  he is proposing what is the best for cv without having any game in them(what i say about  opinions that coming from a player without any experiences on the matter?  GARBAGES)..last year he was proposing balances in tier 10 MM when he didnt had any battle in high tier 9-10..he is just a little forum warrior :Smile_trollface:

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9 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Actually, im wondering if their % hit chance of AA could be tweaked to make that work somehow. At first, i thought how retarded WG is to make the DPS values and then apply a % hitchance to it (like 100 DPS with 85% = 85 DPS). But now i think, this actually might be a way to balance planes across tiers:

Make the hitchance based on the tier of the planes you are fighting! Like hightier tier planes are bigger = you hit more as an easy explanation.

F.e. Minotaur vs Hakuryu planes = 100% DPS

Minotaur vs Shokaku planes = xx% DPS based on base HP difference from Shokaku -> Hakuryu planes. Not sure what it is, lets say, Shokaku planes have 80% HP while Haku has 100%. Then DPS is 80%.

Works the other way around aswell, like Dallas fighting a Shokaku would be 120% DPS. (or if you want to scale it down so its not >100%, then it could be like 60% when CV lowtier / 80% when same tier / 100% when Cruiser lowtier)

 

@MrConway Not sure what you guys are thinking about tier difference with CVs, but maybe this is useful for you?

 

I like this, will forward.

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10 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Wanna bet? I'd just drop the first loads, and go in with the last dump... :Smile_trollface:

That is currently the method I use whenever dropping on something expecting high attrition, dump the first couple attacks in the water so I'll at least get those aircraft back as I wouldn't be able to make a third or more attack runs under the current AA anyway against most higher tier ships.

 

Even so, the problem was the near instant damage immunity the moment someone used F to recall the entire squadron and that would keep the nerfed bailout immunity. Dropping bombs early isn't an exploit as you lose the strike potential as opposed to the previous going in with the entire squadron and only bailing once it got a bit too hot as you kept your entire strike potential all the way until you decided to go F.

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5 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

That is currently the method I use whenever dropping on something expecting high attrition, dump the first couple attacks in the water so I'll at least get those aircraft back as I wouldn't be able to make a third or more attack runs under the current AA anyway against most higher tier ships.

So, indeed I was right - this thing will not work if the planes get NO damage after dropping their load.

What we'll get is simply drop the first two loads, those planes are safe then - and the third is gonna be the 'risk load'.

But those planes will also be safe once they dropped. 

 

5 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

Even so, the problem was the near instant damage immunity the moment someone used F to recall the entire squadron and that would keep the nerfed bailout immunity. Dropping bombs early isn't an exploit as you lose the strike potential as opposed to the previous going in with the entire squadron and only bailing once it got a bit too hot as you kept your entire strike potential all the way until you decided to go F.

Bombs won't work, but torps will. Guess what will happen.

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12 hours ago, Kenliero said:

continuous damage makes damage to entire squadron, every single second even between flak puffs.

It actually deals damage to a random plane in the squadron. The more planes you have, the more it gets spread out.

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28 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

So, indeed I was right - this thing will not work if the planes get NO damage after dropping their load.

What we'll get is simply drop the first two loads, those planes are safe then - and the third is gonna be the 'risk load'.

But those planes will also be safe once they dropped.

 

If people want to "exploit" a save auto-return after dropping to the extend of giving up 66-75% of their drop potential by all means, let them do it. Alpha damage on the new CVs is ridiculously low (Midway torps do 5k a pop before torpedobelt damage reduction, I regularily get 2-3k damage per torp on DDs ffs) and unless the target is cooperatively straightlining for you during the entire attack run you won't even land a majority of your ordnance to make for lacking alpha with hitnumbers on a single attack run. Everyone's going to be real scared of tier X CVs with 40k average damage ...

 

28 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Bombs won't work, but torps will. Guess what will happen.

 

There is literally ONE TB option that can do that, the Hakuryuu 8km TBs. Every other TB option only has around 4km range and you will NOT be able to just drop your ordnance savely outside AA range with only one "risk load" and have the preemptively dropped torps still be a threat because they don't have the bloody range to hit a ship from outside their AA. Especially if you want to drop your "risk load" to at least arm before hitting the target you have to start the attack run even way before the maxrange AA in order to have sufficient range to your target to take the attack cooldown and preparation phase of the drop into account. Even Shokaku 5km TBs won't be able to physically connect two drops unless you have a ship steaming full speed directly into the direction those torps are coming from and even then the maximum amount of torps you could land in such a scenario would be 2, one per drop on the nose each, rest would sail past the sides of the ship.

 

This isn't an issue with non-Haku TBs and won't be.

 

 

 

If everyone could for one second remember that the CV rework isn't just about the Hakuryuu, that'd be a real help to get some constructive feedback going.

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So much fuss about CVS! IGNORE THEM! we have worse thing to worry about! no one speaks about trying nerfing premium ships released years ago, nobody talks about ship lines that need buff and nerfs( german destroyers, IJN gunboats, premium ships like huang he, abruzzi, duca, tirpitz, gascone, PEF and even some RN light cruisers)about the 20 seconds gun bloom, new ships to be introduced: i want the soviet bbs already, commonwealth cruisers or destroyers and what about the italians? BUT NO we want CVS to be buffed! GG this community is doomed to fail, unlike the wot one where they cry to remove ARTA or limit it to only 1 but here we want it buffed! GG! 

OR what about those radar changes and flood ones eh? no one talks about them we just care about our CVS who cant do a stupid amount of damage all around the map because why the hell not!

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9 hours ago, Maaseru said:

 

Who put words into whose mouth? Are you 14? Or i guess it's again basic internet behavior of feeling attacked/offended all the time... I simply said that no ship should be immune against anyone, I don't understand what that has to do with you? If you felt addressed then that is up to you.

 

You quoted me :cap_fainting:

Either dont quote me, if you dont talk to me, or divide your post into paragraphs so that its clear you arent targeting a specific person after the quoted part.

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1 hour ago, Aotearas said:

Everyone's going to be real scared of tier X CVs with 40k average damage ...

 

A lot of people are afraid of DDs with 40k avg dmg tho :Smile-_tongue:. The thing for CVs might be: need to focus more on DoT. As in look for targets, which your team has pulled a DCP off or help your team to stack DoT by pulling DCP. It was literally in WGs explanations, that they want to reduce alpha-strike capability of CVs. What actually would be interesting is, to read a feedback from WG, if the current state is, what they where aiming at to achieve or how close it is. We can only guess right now.

 

1 hour ago, Aotearas said:

If everyone could for one second remember that the CV rework isn't just about the Hakuryuu, that'd be a real help to get some constructive feedback going.

 

Seems impossible right now. Maybe start topics for T4s / T6s but im sure some people will start talking about Haku there aswell (as its even happening in topcis, completly unrelated to CVs):Smile_amazed:

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2 hours ago, Aotearas said:

 

If people want to "exploit" a save auto-return after dropping to the extend of giving up 66-75% of their drop potential by all means, let them do it. Alpha damage on the new CVs is ridiculously low (Midway torps do 5k a pop before torpedobelt damage reduction, I regularily get 2-3k damage per torp on DDs ffs) and unless the target is cooperatively straightlining for you during the entire attack run you won't even land a majority of your ordnance to make for lacking alpha with hitnumbers on a single attack run. Everyone's going to be real scared of tier X CVs with 40k average damage ...

Allrighty - now with 3x drop taht would be 120k damage. How come WG cannot calculate that themselves?

 

 

2 hours ago, Aotearas said:

There is literally ONE TB option that can do that, the Hakuryuu 8km TBs.

Maybe they shopu;d have nerfed THAT ONE and left the rest...

 

2 hours ago, Aotearas said:

Every other TB option only has around 4km range and you will NOT be able to just drop your ordnance savely outside AA range with only one "risk load" and have the preemptively dropped torps still be a threat because they don't have the bloody range to hit a ship from outside their AA. Especially if you want to drop your "risk load" to at least arm before hitting the target you have to start the attack run even way before the maxrange AA in order to have sufficient range to your target to take the attack cooldown and preparation phase of the drop into account. Even Shokaku 5km TBs won't be able to physically connect two drops unless you have a ship steaming full speed directly into the direction those torps are coming from and even then the maximum amount of torps you could land in such a scenario would be 2, one per drop on the nose each, rest would sail past the sides of the ship.

I understand that (I have a Langley...) :Smile_hiding:

 

2 hours ago, Aotearas said:

This isn't an issue with non-Haku TBs and won't be.

 

If everyone could for one second remember that the CV rework isn't just about the Hakuryuu, that'd be a real help to get some constructive feedback going.

Good idea... maybe we assumed wrongly WG would know which CV we were talking about... :Smile_trollface:

 

Meanwhile... something has just been updated/hotfixed/nerfed... just got the pop-up message... :fish_nerv:

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8 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

A lot of people are afraid of DDs with 40k avg dmg tho :Smile-_tongue:. The thing for CVs might be: need to focus more on DoT. As in look for targets, which your team has pulled a DCP off or help your team to stack DoT by pulling DCP. It was literally in WGs explanations, that they want to reduce alpha-strike capability of CVs. What actually would be interesting is, to read a feedback from WG, if the current state is, what they where aiming at to achieve or how close it is. We can only guess right now.

Sure is. I just KNOW I can do 60-70k in Langley, but i need more games in it.

But yes they're still very scared... I hope though that people start to realise it needsto target BBs and such.

Shafting a Dd might be good fun and relatively easy, but it will not bring any worthwhile XP. 

 

8 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

Seems impossible right now. Maybe start topics for T4s / T6s but im sure some people will start talking about Haku there aswell (as its even happening in topcis, completly unrelated to CVs):Smile_amazed:

Oh yes the Haku-hate is strong in these, padawan. 

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18 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

A lot of people are afraid of DDs with 40k avg dmg tho :Smile-_tongue:. The thing for CVs might be: need to focus more on DoT. As in look for targets, which your team has pulled a DCP off or help your team to stack DoT by pulling DCP. It was literally in WGs explanations, that they want to reduce alpha-strike capability of CVs. What actually would be interesting is, to read a feedback from WG, if the current state is, what they where aiming at to achieve or how close it is. We can only guess right now.

Thing is, only somewhat reliable source of DoT I can think of for current CV are USN dive bombers, preferably tier 8+ as they drop two bombs per plane. And mayyybe Tiny Tims. USN and IJN torpedoes on other hand notoriously cause engine/rudder breakdown instead flooding, so that would be one way of triggering DCP on BB

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Alle 8/2/2019 alle 04:24, cpt_sparrow_jack ha scritto:

yea he is the mr know it all person of the forum and in reality he doesn"t *edited*.Now  he is proposing what is the best for cv without having any game in them(what i say about  opinions that coming from a player without any experiences on the matter?  GARBAGES)..last year he was proposing balances in tier 10 MM when he didnt had any battle in high tier 9-10..he is just a little forum warrior :Smile_trollface:

 

So you seem to be a bit slow dude? 

 

Didn’t even talk about Hakuryu. 

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20 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Allrighty - now with 3x drop taht would be 120k damage. How come WG cannot calculate that themselves?

 

... no CV has the alpha to 40k damage with a single attack flight. I obviously meant that number for average damage PER MATCH, because that's what you're going to end up with if every attack run you do results in ~8k damage since you only attack once and send the other flights back home without attacking something.

 

Are you trying not to understand what I'm saying here? Or do you believe the anti-CV hype so hard that you still think they can just murder everything in one pass?

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3 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

 

... no CV has the alpha to 40k damage with a single attack flight. I obviously meant that number for average damage PER MATCH, because that's what you're going to end up with if every attack run you do results in ~8k damage since you only attack once and send the other flights back home without attacking something.

 

Are you trying not to understand what I'm saying here? Or do you believe the anti-CV hype so hard that you still think they can just murder everything in one pass?

Hakuryu long range TB says hi.

haku.png

 

Oh wait, its 37k potential alpha, crisis averted:cap_tea:

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1 minute ago, Aotearas said:

 

... no CV has the alpha to 40k damage with a single attack flight. I obviously meant that number for average damage PER MATCH, because that's what you're going to end up with if every attack run you do results in ~8k damage since you only attack once and send the other flights back home without attacking something.

 

Are you trying not to understand what I'm saying here? Or do you believe the anti-CV hype so hard that you still think they can just murder everything in one pass?

Nothing of the sort. I understood that you meant 40k per match (using 1 drop per 'flight out' and sending the first two drops into oblivion+ safely home).

IMO if all three drops were useful, that would mean 120k damage per match... Wrong? If not, I suppose WG can make the same calculations.

 

Let's add 1/3 of that due to DoT (some of those torps will cause flooding) and you end up with 160k. Seams reasonable (service cost being 80k?). 

How come WG cannot calculate that if you do 'average XP' you should work out ~the service cost. Maybe they can't... which is why the nerfhammer falls that hard?

 

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3 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Hakuryu long range TB says hi.

haku.png

 

Oh wait, its 37k potential alpha, crisis averted:cap_tea:

 

Now apply torpedo belt and allow for the realistic situation that you're not going to hit every single 40kn torpedo launched from 1,2km and that alpha drops quite sharply.

 

Also again, Hakuryuu problem. Feel free to saracastically post the TB characteristics of the other CVs' ...

 

 

1 minute ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Nothing of the sort. I understood that you meant 40k per match (using 1 drop per 'flight out' and sending the first two drops into oblivion+ safely home).

IMO if all three drops were useful, that would mean 120k damage per match... Wrong? If not, I suppose WG can make the same calculations.

 

Let's add 1/3 of that due to DoT (some of those torps will cause flooding) and you end up with 160k. Seams reasonable (service cost being 80k?). 

How come WG cannot calculate that if you do 'average XP' you should work out ~the service cost. Maybe they can't... which is why the nerfhammer falls that hard?

 

Ah, that's what you meant. Though I have to wonder how we started talking about average XP now.

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2 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

 

Now apply torpedo belt and allow for the realistic situation that you're not going to hit every single 40kn torpedo launched from 1,2km and that alpha drops quite sharply.

Also again, Hakuryuu problem.

Yeah I'd agree. I also suppose that the 40k you quoted is your experience as a 'non-potato'CV player in the current meta.

So it is actually based on experience instead of theoretical calculations.

 

Quote

Feel free to saracastically post the TB characteristics of the other CVs' ...

I'm curious what they are. And what the ACTUAL results per game are.

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2 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

I'm curious what they are. 

Give me a moment to crop the screenshots ...

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Just now, Aotearas said:

Give me a moment to crop the screenshots ...

inb4 OP Midway 67k DB alpha:Smile-_tongue:

Though practical value is around 15-18k assuming all bombs hit into not saturated areas.

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