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Shlomo_Ishtov

It is important to continue voicing discontent with CV rework

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The overwhelming negative response to the massive alteration in the game must continue in order for the pride of the developers to be set aside in favor of preserving the business model.  Polling and reaction is near 70% wishing the update to be completely abandoned and rolled back.

 

I can personally testify that if it wasn't for the current Ranked season, I wouldn't even be online.   As a yearly subscriber, I'd like Wargaming to reconsider and remove the update.

Everyone else should keep up the comments and continue voicing your desire for a complete removal, and not a bandage on an already dead goat.

 

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That said please keeps things civil, don't act like an angry mob.

Herassing Sub_Octavian so much that he retired from the forums and Reddit, is nothing we as a Community should be proud of.

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12 minutes ago, ZoidFile said:

That said please keeps things civil, don't act like an angry mob.

Herassing Sub_Octavian so much that he retired from the forums and Reddit, is nothing we as a Community should be proud of.

 

lel S_O  got hounded off forums and Reddit?! 

 

Whilst I don't have anything against the guy personally, it's sort of his job to try and get the community on board. Agreed this is a very very difficult task with the current $.storm going on in WoWS...

 

OP, not a chance WG will roll back the update. WG love doing what WG wants to do sadly.

 

I'm playing less these days and have sold all my tech tree CVs as I want nothing to do with that rubbish.

 

I actually want a cash refund for all three of my Prem CVs I bought but that is also very unlikely to happen. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, ZoidFile said:

That said please keeps things civil, don't act like an angry mob.

Herassing Sub_Octavian so much that he retired from the forums and Reddit, is nothing we as a Community should be proud of.

if he can't handle his job, maybe he shouldn't be in that role.  I don't like dealing with customers screaming at me when they have no idea how tech works but I have to put up with it anyway.  The real world is a scary place my friend.

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21 minutes ago, CraftyVeteran said:

if he can't handle his job, maybe he shouldn't be in that role.  I don't like dealing with customers screaming at me when they have no idea how tech works but I have to put up with it anyway.

Except you're not emotionally invested the way a developer is. You can just deliver canned responses and don't care what anyone has to say about whatever product you are providing support for.

Don't get the two situations confused.

 

The way this community acts towards actual people working for WG is horrible.

 

21 minutes ago, CraftyVeteran said:

The real world is a scary place my friend.

No it's not. But vile people make it seem that way.

If you viewed the world only through online social platforms, you could easily assume that anarchy ruled the planet and society had crumbled.

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2 minutes ago, Nechrom said:

Except you're not emotionally invested the way a developer is. You can just deliver canned responses and don't care what anyone has to say about whatever product you are providing support for.

Don't get the two situations confused.

 

The way this community acts towards actual people working for WG is horrible.

 

No it's not. But vile people make it seem that way.

If you viewed the world only through online social platforms, you could easily assume that anarchy ruled the planet and society had crumbled.

no it isn't.

 

yes it is.


See I can negate a statement on false generalizations as well.  what a fun game!

 

You also can't seem to detect sarcasm on the second line.  But...you know best!  So let me leave you with this just to make you feel better:

 

you're right. always.  No matter what.

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4 minutes ago, CraftyVeteran said:

no it isn't.

 

yes it is.


See I can negate a statement on false generalizations as well.  what a fun game!

 

You also can't seem to detect sarcasm on the second line.  But...you know best!  So let me leave you with this just to make you feel better:

 

you're right. always.  No matter what.

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42 minutes ago, Nechrom said:

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To be fair you set yourself up for the criticism, you don't know what "investment" he might have in the product he gets contacted over. He may well not be some support bod fielding calls all day.

 

As someone often facing people fronting many millions for products being developed or implemented (frequently both) I have considerable investment in the projects I work on and unlike Sub_O I can't just refuse meetings, put fingers in ears and ignore the customer.

WG have made changes that an awful lot of their customers hate, with more than a few deciding that paying more money to WG will never happen (me included), it's up to them to manage the communications and try and mitigate the damage, which from my point of view they've completely failed to do.  

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I was a good CV player.  From closed beta it's the only thing I did.

I had bad feeling over the CV rework, and its was true.

 

I can't bring myself to spam torpedoes from the sky, or to take advantage of broken game play. 

 

1 less sky cancer some players will say, well I don't see that like that. Previous RTS was a game mode that made you think.

The new 1 is not...

 

Sold my Enterprise, did not even try Kaga or Saipen, the last 2 are not what I pay and wanted.

 

They took 50% of my fleet and sent my XP to T1 ship to be used with real money...

 

Don't see myself play with the current game style.

 

Sharp.

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11 hours ago, BeauNidl3 said:

To be fair you set yourself up for the criticism, you don't know what "investment" he might have in the product he gets contacted over. He may well not be some support bod fielding calls all day.

Except that 99% of CS is not done by people who are invested in their product.

I've worked call centers for 3 years. 2 of those years with an independent company taking calls for a multitude of products. The last year working as in-house support.

I'm comfortable assuming that anyone who doesn't specify otherwise fits in that overwhelming majority.

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14 hours ago, Shlomo_Ishtov said:

I can personally testify that if it wasn't for the current Ranked season, I wouldn't even be online

that

 

14 hours ago, Shlomo_Ishtov said:

I'd like Wargaming to reconsider and remove the update.

and certainly that

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12 hours ago, CraftyVeteran said:

if he can't handle his job, maybe he shouldn't be in that role.  I don't like dealing with customers screaming at me when they have no idea how tech works but I have to put up with it anyway.  The real world is a scary place my friend.

As far as Im aware answering stuff on reddit/forums wasnt his job anyway - it was something he did in his spare time

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38 minutes ago, Nechrom said:

Except that 99% of CS is not done by people who are invested in their product.

I've worked call centers for 3 years. 2 of those years with an independent company taking calls for a multitude of products. The last year working as in-house support.

I'm comfortable assuming that anyone who doesn't specify otherwise fits in that overwhelming majority.

 

As someone that has set up many call centres over the last 25 years and hired the staff from senior management down to call operators I'm more than aware how much of customer support is done, however your assumption that it is the whole of customer support  is what he reacted to.

Believe me when I say that the customer support meetings at director and military star levels is far, far more invested than some guy sat in a call center and when something either goes dramatically wrong or is perceived to be going off the rails even when it isn't, those meetings are very sticky, but they also are the crunch ones where the product or project fails or survives.

You defended Sub_O implying he shouldn't face people being upset that the product he fronts is heading down a path they hate, you're wrong there, very wrong. His withdrawing from forums and Reddit is thoroughly cowardly and it's a very clear indication he is the wrong person for the job.

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Just to make sure we know what S_O job actually was. He is NOT a CM, he is a dev who sets time aside to talk to us and on top of that he translates it too!

 

Yes criticise WG, but jeez stop with the vile vitriol and threats that some people are using.

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It's not his Job, he's the Live producer 

In short the mod hounded up one of the people responsible for the publication of the live game, not community engagement. 

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2 minutes ago, BeauNidl3 said:

You defended Sub_O implying he shouldn't face people being upset that the product he fronts is heading down a path they hate, you're wrong there, very wrong. His withdrawing from forums and Reddit is thoroughly cowardly and it's a very clear indication he is the wrong person for the job.

There is being upset and there is being actually vile. I get upset, but I don't start calling people liars and crap talkers.

Also S_O isn't a community manager like for example Conway. He is a producer and does the community interaction on his own initiative and mostly on his own free time.

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I used to play this game for the aircraft carriers, they were fun (except on high tiers). Often I would play several battles in them and only then, when I got enought for a day, I would play others ships.

Now cvs are crap. Specially low tiers. You do very little damage and they aren't fun at all. All what I feel it's frustration (like, the cooldown for rocket planes, or when I use dive bombers and the aim circle just moves away from the place you intend to do in the climb and down cicle). Saipan it's uterly crap and I can't use Kaga in scenarios anymore due being uptiered.
Sure, Hakuryu seems somewhat fun, but it seems it will be nerfed to death so there is little point in playing it (because if I DO enjoy it then I would be uterly pissed after the nerf).

The only reason why I haven't installed the game yet its due all the money I spended on it. And mind you, might not be that much, but I'm not rich at all.
However, WG doesn't listens to their players. That is a proven fact (HELL, I have been reporting the silent plane bug and the waypoint one for 15 versions and never was fixed!!!!) Also I gave my input on the rework on the early test. Nothing was fixed at all...

If only attacks could be more predictable AND be able to use planes and the cv at the same time (and manually use the cannons as well. Because due the damn circle thing and plane cool down I found out cvs have a 5 km blind spot if there are any attackers nearby)

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Just now, Nechrom said:

There is being upset and there is being actually vile. I get upset, but I don't start calling people liars and crap talkers.

Also S_O isn't a community manager like for example Conway. He is a producer and does the community interaction on his own initiative and mostly on his own free time.

 

Maybe so, but again speaking from experience, once you are seen as the face of a product (which in game terms a Producer most definitely can represent) and engage with customers then that's a role you've adopted for good, it's impossible to pull back from it without repercussions and totally impossible without appointing someone to front it on your behalf.

To use an old phrase, he's made his bed and he's no choice other than to lie in it. Own goals like that are something an experienced manager does their best to avoid.

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13 hours ago, CraftyVeteran said:

if he can't handle his job, maybe he shouldn't be in that role.  I don't like dealing with customers screaming at me when they have no idea how tech works but I have to put up with it anyway.  The real world is a scary place my friend.

Frankly, I think anyone will have a hard time trying to have a dialogue with an angry mob.

Toxicity is incapable to create, it can only destroy. And usually toxicity is sprung from selfishness. Everyting can die as long as I get what I want and /care about the rest. Yes that way there won't be a rest and noone will get any rest.

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8 minutes ago, Sargento_YO said:

I used to play this game for the aircraft carriers, they were fun (except on high tiers). Often I would play several battles in them and only then, when I got enought for a day, I would play others ships.

Now cvs are crap. Specially low tiers. You do very little damage and they aren't fun at all. All what I feel it's frustration (like, the cooldown for rocket planes, or when I use dive bombers and the aim circle just moves away from the place you intend to do in the climb and down cicle). Saipan it's uterly crap and I can't use Kaga in scenarios anymore due being uptiered.
Sure, Hakuryu seems somewhat fun, but it seems it will be nerfed to death so there is little point in playing it (because if I DO enjoy it then I would be uterly pissed after the nerf).

The only reason why I haven't installed the game yet its due all the money I spended on it. And mind you, might not be that much, but I'm not rich at all.
However, WG doesn't listens to their players. That is a proven fact (HELL, I have been reporting the silent plane bug and the waypoint one for 15 versions and never was fixed!!!!) Also I gave my input on the rework on the early test. Nothing was fixed at all...

If only attacks could be more predictable AND be able to use planes and the cv at the same time (and manually use the cannons as well. Because due the damn circle thing and plane cool down I found out cvs have a 5 km blind spot if there are any attackers nearby)

What silent plane bug?

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Just now, NothingButTheRain said:

What silent plane bug?

The one where cv's squads would become silent. For no reason at all (and in totally random situations) planes stop giving status reports for the rest of the game until I close it and restart the game. This happened in two different computers which the only thing in common between then were an AMD processor (Phenom II and Athlon II) and windows 7. For 15 versions (or so, lost count) I kept reporting it to no avail. Even I was replied by mrconway that they were aware of the bug but they wouldn't fix it (for 15 versions... and then for 3 versions more or so after that message).

This shows that WG might be aware of a problem, but they wouldn't solve it.
 

Even

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2 minutes ago, Sargento_YO said:

The one where cv's squads would become silent. For no reason at all (and in totally random situations) planes stop giving status reports for the rest of the game until I close it and restart the game. This happened in two different computers which the only thing in common between then were an AMD processor (Phenom II and Athlon II) and windows 7. For 15 versions (or so, lost count) I kept reporting it to no avail. Even I was replied by mrconway that they were aware of the bug but they wouldn't fix it (for 15 versions... and then for 3 versions more or so after that message).

This shows that WG might be aware of a problem, but they wouldn't solve it.
 

Even

Ohhh I remember that bug! Happened a couple times when I played RTS Ryujo in kw.

But frankly, that bug was much less of an issue to me then this bug whene I suddenly could not set waypoints for my bombers anymore, only attack orders and clicking on something that was not an enemy would make my planes return to my carrier.

 

Iirc my carrier lost waypoint control, but I could still use the manual steering (throttle and Q and E).

 

Torp planes seemed to respond normally.

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15 hours ago, Shlomo_Ishtov said:

Polling and reaction is near 70% wishing the update to be completely abandoned and rolled back.

 

Where is your 70% figure from.  Is it just forumites?  When was poll run?

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15 hours ago, Shlomo_Ishtov said:

The overwhelming negative response

You mean hysteria?  :Smile_trollface:

 

 

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to the massive alteration in the game

Operations and Co-OP are still the same  :Smile_izmena:

 

 

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must continue

It is good to have some goals that make life meaningful  :Smile_medal:

 

 

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in order for the pride of the developers to be set aside in favor of preserving the business model.

Would be the first business model in history that bases on anyone's pride. :Smile_teethhappy:

 

 

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Polling and reaction is near 70%

among keyboard warriors :Smile_hiding:

 

 

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wishing the update to be completely abandoned and rolled back.

WG! You ugly Monsanto of Gaming! Listen to the People!  :Smile-angry:

 

 

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I can personally testify that if it wasn't for the current Ranked season, I wouldn't even be online.

It is good and beneficial to go outside!  :Smile_great:

 

 

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Everyone else should keep up the comments

Your wish is my command.  :Smile_honoring:

 

 

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and continue voicing your desire for a complete removal

Not sure about desire, but they get my voice!

 

https://www.completeremovalservices.com.au/

 

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and not a bandage on an already dead goat.

I support this 100%. It seems like a total waste of bandages.

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1 hour ago, Nechrom said:

Except that 99% of CS is not done by people who are invested in their product.

I've worked call centers for 3 years. 2 of those years with an independent company taking calls for a multitude of products. The last year working as in-house support.

I'm comfortable assuming that anyone who doesn't specify otherwise fits in that overwhelming majority.

Where on earth did you hear that?!!!

If your advisors have not bought into your products/ business or invested as you say, emotionally, mentally or even financially  then one can assume you have a very poor manager. Or recruitment don't give a Crap. Either way that is a sure way for any business to fail.

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