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Spithas

0.8.1 Radar Render Delay

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I would agree on this one. These changes are clear examples of WG's sledgehammer approach to balancing. In each case, a problem that required a small, precise change is instead "solved" with a huge blanket change that creates more issues. Here's how the problems should have been fixed:

 

BB AP: The issue here was obviously the random 15km AP pen Dev-strikes on DDs, and the fact that they were punished with massive AP pen damage if they tried to angle to avoid CA/CL HE fire. What should have been introduced was a maximum distance required for full pens to be possible on a DD, depending on its HP (how well it can theoretically take full pen damage) and its armour (to arm the shell). Instead, we got a blanket BB AP nerf that enables DDs to suicide rush BBs in all kinds of stupid ways (last week I took two full Iowa AP volleys nose in on the chin in a Kitakaze and survived with 5k hp, before torping him.)

 

CE Change: An easy one. We all know that the issue was the stupid concealment of some high tier BBs (Conqueror), so why not just targeted nerf their concealment? I know that stealth radar was also an issue mitigated, but it's still possible to do that in a Minotaur. Giving RN CLs the same radar nerf as the US ones would have fixed that.

 

Radar Delay: I'm not that good of a player, but radar isn't that much of an issue to me on its own. The problem is when there are 4/5 ships on one team with radar. That's just not fun to deal with. Cap radar ships to two per team and give them mirror MM and the main problems are resolved.

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[-TWA-]
Players
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Capping Radar ships via MM is an option but we have to recognise the possible problems WG might have with this kind of solution.

 

You also have to consider most ships with good AA are also radar ships so you have a lot of them now in the meta, which again shows WGs limited vision i terms of realizing how all their changes combine together.

 

For random battle i still believe fiddling with the point economy is the best way to alleviate the problem of 1 team having bad DD players. For competitive this basically creates a very problematic situation. DD becomes too powerful specially in CBs with no CV spotting. Alternative means of play like what TWA does are completely nerfed.

Last CB season had a very healthy meta. We had 3 top teams performing excellent with 3 unique styles. 2x DD, 1x DD and no DD. This will just limit this kind of flexibility.

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Players
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I think that Spithas put out in this post what every good player thinks about the game and announced changes. Hopefully WG listens to this.

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Beta Tester
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While I agree that WG is dumbing down the game once again, 

@Spithas you are still painting an overdramatic picture here. 

 

The effect will simply be that your friendly DDs have to properly counter the enemy DDs, if there is no CV around. The latter is part of good DD play anyway. It will lose some depth yeah, but it will be somewhat alright.

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[-TWA-]
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1 minute ago, __Helmut_Kohl__ said:

While I agree that WG is dumbing down the game once again, 

@Spithas you are still painting an overdramatic picture here. 

 

The effect will simply be that your friendly DDs have to properly counter the enemy DDs, if there is no CV around. Which is party of good DD play anyway. It will lose some depth yeah, but it will be alright.

Sure, but you underestimate the effect this will have on Cruisers. Both CE change and Radar Render Delay together.

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Beta Tester
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1 minute ago, Spithas said:

Sure, but you underestimate the effect this will have on Cruisers. Both CE change and Radar Render Delay together.

 

A radar-cruiser will simply not be the solution to a DD threat anymore.

Instead it will shift some more towards cruisers supporting their friendly DDs.

 

Because the DD can give surface-insta-spotting to the team.

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[-TWA-]
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And as i said bad dds will stil die... good DDs will be extremely hard to counter. How many times do you see teams having good dds on both side?

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[-101-]
Alpha Tester
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I'm a pretty good player, even if I do say so myself, and I actuallu think radar needs sorting out. The proposed rendering delay, however, is ridiculous.

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Beta Tester
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Even if WG doubled the HP pool of DDs they will still die first. It has been the same since closed beta and it will stay the same...

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[PARAZ]
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Am I the only one who hasn't had to use radar a single time against DDs ever since 0.8.0? :Smile_hiding:

 

Not saying that that makes this a good change ofc.

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Players
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The issues is, this is another nerf to teamplay and coordinations (just like the smoke firing bs and not the murdering of AA range).

You just cant have ships effectively working together, you lose the burst damage on the coordinated radar use.

And radar is far from the biggest concern of the DDs at the moment.

Why does WG tries to fix things with a hammer that are not, or just barely out of order?

 

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[NWP]
[NWP]
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WG and illogical changes? Surely not?

 

I imagine WG think you should stop complaining and get your credit card out for day 1 RN CVs instead :cap_money:

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[OMNI]
[OMNI]
Privateer, In AlfaTesters
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Instead of catering to whining noobs with changes that hurt the game's health, how about WG makes tutorials for them instead (or at the very least promote 3rd party guides in the client)?

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1 minute ago, Yurra said:

Instead of catering to whining noobs with changes that hurt the game's health, how about WG makes tutorials for them instead (or at the very least promote 3rd party guides in the client)?

 

The average player cannot even angle a ship correctly. Tutorials won't help much I'm afraid... 

 

Still WG needs to be careful not to chase away their dedicated playerbase... 

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[_OPC_]
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@Spithas Thank you! Great post!

 

You are right the problem is WG don't want to listen and they have proven it so many times (all the recent changes feels like deja vu .. in WoT).

 

I hope I am wrong and they will listen!

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[NWP]
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3 hours ago, Spithas said:

And as i said bad dds will stil die... good DDs will be extremely hard to counter. How many times do you see teams having good dds on both side?

 

Ive been argueing like this for a year (really) in the Radar thread... Every "DD main" is telling me, im wrong, and radar is only/mostly targeting bad DD players. Every attempt at showcasing how bad DD players kill themselves is put away with "anecdotes dont count".

Somehow they think, bad DD players would magically get better and not die to unicum DDs? Not sure why that would happen tho... :cap_fainting:

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