[UPD 11/2] Update 0.8.0.2 Hotfix

[Sanepidi]

For god sake. If it will go further that way i will take that option of selling CV's complete.

CV'S is now crap. Your planes are dying faster than u can react. It is unplayable now.

Hmm not wait maybe that stealth hakuryu crap...................

 

I made full speed approach to yamato with BOMBERS! 6km from him was Hinden. All 12 planes died whil getting aligned to make bomb drop. ALL 12 PLANES????!!!!

 

Test Hotfix before putting it live......................

[Pialla_tank]

This new update shows if you still need to be groping in the deepest darkness without the slightest idea of what to do.

do us a favor stop

 

[janneman77]

well and here I was thinking. the purpose of the rework was to persuade more players to play aircraft carriers. that has only lasted a week.

the old rts players disappeared or have to also learn this new gameplay.

possible new carrier players like me.  have been able to try it for a week.

and after this hotfix I'm a bit done with trying

we will see how many aircraft carriers are left. in a couple of weeks

 

[Winter]

15 minutes ago, Captain_LOZFFVII said:

Others have suggested giving CVs a specific MM rule, in the form that a CV is always in the middle of the MM spread, but we still keep the +/-2 for other classes. T6 CVs can only see T5s and T7s, T8 CVs can only see T7s and T9s, T10 CVs can only see T9s. This should reduce the number of battles where the CV player simply cannot influence the battle because +2 AA is too powerful.

So, if you're in a T7 cruiser, you will see either a T6 CV or a T8 CV, but never both in the same battle. Having the MM act like this would also have the added benefit of reducing the number of T10 battles other T8s end up in, so less whiners there. Also, having MM brackets like these would help with balancing AA across all ship types, as it's quite simple to go "All T6s are balanced within tier; All T7s are a little bit better than T6 but a little bit worse than T8; All T8s are balanced within tier".

 

Personally, I quite like this idea and think it would be a big step towards a CV/Surface ship balance.

Problem with these kind of MM changes is that they always sound easier than they are. What do you do with the ships in div with a CV, even if you force same tier divs, you're essentially granting other ships a way to never face +2 tiers either.

 

Let's say you instead grant all ships -1/+1 MM (which I doubt will ever happen, can't list the specific reasons but pretty sure this has been shot down as an idea every time it comes up), you'll probably still end up in a bad spot with the odd tier ship's AA. As in, they'd be able to face 2 different tiers of carriers and I feel like they've not given themselves enough room in the current mechanics to have AA that's decent, it either works and at the very least wrecks most of the squad after the first drop, or it gets away with the first drop with minimum losses and people feel AA is ineffective. So do you then just leave odd tier AA in a spot where it's too powerful for the low tier and ineffective against the high tier carrier they can run into?

 

Maybe it's just me that thinks this AA system can't be balanced, but I can't really think of a spot where both sides would be happy with the AA performance. It used to be a bit more clear, carriers had to avoid certain ships like the plague and could easily go for others if they didn't have help, maybe later in the game a bunch of AA mounts were broken and they could do more but in the meantime they kept busy poking away at each other's fighters. There was also def AA to give people a chance to avoid some damage even if they AA wasn't absolutely wrecking the planes and the drops were concentrated, high number of bombs/torps, but anything that was shot down reduced the power of the strike a little so AA felt rewarding even without having to kill like 80% of the planes coming your way.

 

Now all they've given carriers to do is strike, strike, strike. So if early game AA is too powerful (where AA mounts are still intact), there's not much to do for carriers that feels rewarding. Even though I feel like current spotting abilities are too powerful, in terms of the speed at which they can get into the enemy spawn and the lack of counters to plane spotting, it's not really rewarded either in terms of XP/credits/achievements. So if you lower the strike capabilities by increasing AA, you would kinda say, sacrifice your rewards for the team and go around to annoy things that rely on concealment, which isn't fun for anyone.

[KHS01]

Will be possible to use joystick for cv in the future? I think it will be a nice addition and friendly controls for aircrafts.

[anonym_cwVecOS6ecVy]

This complete rework mess is frustrating to the point where I want to rip my hair out, light in on fire and hotbox my closet with burning hair stench. Don't even ask me why I think of that.

[LOZFFVII]

7 minutes ago, Winter said:

Problem with these kind of MM changes is that they always sound easier than they are. What do you do with the ships in div with a CV, even if you force same tier divs, you're essentially granting other ships a way to never face +2 tiers either.

Sorry, I'm going to parse down everything you wrote to just the bit that I actually have an answer for (I'm late to leave work and I really want to go home).

Honestly, I feel that forced same-tier divs shouldv'e been a thing years ago. If under these forced-same-tier-divs the two ships that aren't a CV cannot find themselves up against +2 competition...well, I'm fine with that (speaking as a 99% solo player). But so long as divs can be made across tiers we need to make it so that the higher tier ship's MM still trumps any CV-specific rules, and that way the T6 (as an example) CV could possibly end up in a T8 battle (against a T8 CV, we don't want to be ruining the day of any solo T6 CVs, or divs that don't try to game the system) - with any luck, this will discourage anyone who is thinking of gaming the system in this way.

[MS_Surface]

I don't get this.

After the cancer CV rework Atlanta had worse AA than a dam Anshan(?!)

So players complained and WG said they were gonna do something about it.

Well they did:

The removed medium AA from Atlanta. How's that?

It's as stupid as this

Tier VI planes attack my Atlanta. I turn on def fire. Planes dodge every explosion.

Then, there's a few seconds where Atlanta AA just stops. No AA. Nothing.

Then when planes are at around 1km, the horrible Atlanta short range AA starts doing... nothing, just pew pew.

Result: focused by Tier VI CV in fully AA Atlanta with def fire. Sure enough, 1.4K dmg to planes with 0 kills.

Is all this cancer CV rework just a big joke?

I think that we will only see how seriously broken the game is when ranked battles are over. I'm sure i'm not the only one who's basically only playing ranked.

BTW why did the Flint gets to keep medium AA??

 

Well, Atlanta feels better now but still testing out.

[Viterian]

AA is pure brutality now for CVs. I will have lost half a squadron in the first 5 mins to mystic AA flak travelling through half a kilometer of solid mountain.

When I try to recall my few planes remaining, they all get shot down as they attempt to flee by flying straight up above the enemy ship!

 

Please, you tried to make CVs fun. They are bearable now, but when you have a tier 8 in a tier 10 match...

[shodan84]

This is my first post ever on WOWS forums. I am CV player. I have always enjoyed RTS but I understand its issues. I had mixed feelings about CV rework, but it was tested... a lot. I took part of PTS and it was hard, but manageable.

 

Then 0.8.0 goes live, i managed to learn how to play, to dodge black bubles of death, to choose my targets carefully, to be patient, to fly around and try to find a single target. I think surface ships changed tactics, new meta, new challenges. GREAT! i really started to like this new rework thing. CV gameplay became more exciting but was still tactical - PERFECT. Good job WG! You introduced new ideas, tested them, and you took players feedback too so players were happy.

 

And now this 0.8.0.1 HOT FIX - no tests, no feedback, just ONE BIG CRAP STRAIGHT INTO MY FACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Really? Seriously?? You spent all this time testing CV rework to now do all this crap? CV are not playable. My torp planes cannot avoid black bubbles anymore because i have to fly straight and loose my planes!

 

I really liked CV rework, being mainly cv players it was fun, it worked, it was ok...

 

Now you ruined it with your fix with no testing whatsoever? just sledgehammer everything because dd players are unhappy?

 

My friend just stopped playing WOWS last week, and i might follow and stop wasting my time on the game - everytime it starts to be fine you brake it!!!

 

i need a hug, or wine

[maddogdk]

you are not done fixing the carriers yet.

[MS_Surface]

On 2/6/2019 at 4:26 PM, The_EURL_Guy said:

We're already making changes based on your feedback. Read about the changes coming in 0.8.0.1.

Read it on the portal

If it was based on our feedback, this CV rework would have never happened. What do you mean based on "our" feedback? You can clearly see the only feedback you have is towards the reversion of this CV rework to the old one or remove CVs entirely. "We're making changes based on your feedback" it's a huge lie. If you read the comments, it's really doesn't look like WG is doing anything that players asked, apart from turning a OP CV into a crap CV.

In fact nobody asked WG to ruin gameplay and make all ships unbalanced.

Nobody asked to make it "console friendly" somehing WG doesn't admit but it's the truth.

"Don't worry, we know you spend money on the game, now just give us a few YEARS to try balance this impossible to balance crap. Meanwhile, listen to this bad rap we've been working on instead of focusing in the game!"

[Generalisator]

OK, we are at the point I will won't even bother testing and stop using my CVs at all.

[shodan84]

one more thing - the bigges cry was from dd and i kinda see the point - so why not nerf just attack planes? they were not that ofted in ww2 after all, why no leave torps and bombers as they were in 0.8.0 and half the size of attack squadron/reserve etc for attack planes only? so more CV gameplay will revolve around TB/Db?

 

but no - wargaming will make CV unplayable for everybody.. just tried t8 and t6 and theyre both as bad :(

 

you wanted MORE ppl to play CV????  FAIL. now no-one will play them even die-hard fans

[ShinGetsu]

25 minutes ago, shodan84 said:

one more thing - the bigges cry was from dd and i kinda see the point - so why not nerf just attack planes? they were not that ofted in ww2 after all, why no leave torps and bombers as they were in 0.8.0 and half the size of attack squadron/reserve etc for attack planes only? so more CV gameplay will revolve around TB/Db?

 

but no - wargaming will make CV unplayable for everybody.. just tried t8 and t6 and theyre both as bad :(

 

you wanted MORE ppl to play CV????  FAIL. now no-one will play them even die-hard fans

If you nerf rocket planes CV will have no way at all of attacking DD. Bombers are super RNG dependant and TB have to starts their attack run at 6km on DD spotted at 3.5.

 

Not like the rockets does that much damage anyway. Compared to old TBs...

 

I say it again, if plane would take off one minute into the game and RP would be a bit less fast it would be enough for DDs. You don't need anything else.

[Dragonfyre]

Not an expert on cv's here but quite liked the new features except could not really get dive bombers to work - guess its lack if skill as you must be able to get close enough to drop more than once surely. but then you patch it and say that AA is more  even - so now dive bombers even worse not a single one gets through to drop bombs. Just see wall of smoke and dead planes. Dodge you say - how no height option and slow turns. I know we cannot quote reality but dive bombers flew much higher then dropped - not gained height in the flak and then dropped.

 

I think WG should see that they actually have 2 games here - surface ships and carrier warfare. You cannot really mix the two, after all the Carrier killed off the concept of the battleship in the real world. Wonder if its going to kill WoWS

[Goktsu]

So first Wargaming destroys the cv gameplay by introducing this new cv mode .

Now barely this sytem introduced you literally trowing the Nerf hammer and nerfing the cv to the ground....

Seriously talk about loosing your player base, this new change will make cv's less effective and not rewarding enough to play. So technically what will happen cv players will get 1 hit on a cruiser or battleship and loose over 80% of its planes....

 

It seems in this game if a lot of noobs complain war-gaming makes the mistake to listen to them. 

[RedOnly]

So here the Doc of what I was writing few posts ago... Enjoy! It has got wows starring players!

 

 

 

 

 

 

On the other hand look at what's happening to the poor Fletcher after a bombing from Midway video at 00:111:18

 

 

 

 

And for your sensitive ears just listen Flambass Clan mate when a Montana destroyes all of his Midway squadron, video at 00:10:28: " Ok, Montana full AA?... disgusting!"

 

So if someone NEED NERF In HOTFIX 2 are a good number of US/UK ships!

 

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/376618745

 

[novents]

Perspective from a DD main. I have ~80% of games played in DDs, have never played aircraft carriers (no prejudice, just not interested in air warfare), but faced enough CVs in T8-10 random matches to add my two cents. 

 

and.... I ACTULLY ENJOYED 8.0. Yes, there was a huge (!) learning curve. Yes, there were games when I raged so hard (losing 50% of your HP and 2-3 modules to Midway rockets within the first 30 seconds was no fun). But patch 8.0 brought a different dynamic to the gameplay, and forced me to adapt my in-game strategy and re-learn basic tactics -

 

1) I now sail closer to my team and don't YOLO into caps to get spotted and focused by 6 enemy ships straight away. New gameplay punishes reckless / brainless tactics and promotes forward thinking. 

 

2) I now have to TIME my approach on cap (between air waves) and READ the situation (positioning of friendly / enemy ships) to decide on next steps. New gameplay promotes situational awareness and general thinking. 

 

3) CV controlling only 1 squadron at a time means they can only be in one place (area of the map) at a time! Unlike the old RTS-style where a competent player could spot and lock down the entire map with 4-6 squadrons. Use this to create advantage in areas where the CV is not present. 

EXAMPLE -  If there's 1 CV and 2 DDs, one of you has a clear run on cap, the other DD plays more defensively and stays close to friendly AA. If there's 2 CVs and 1 DD (it happens too), do NOT YOLO, be patient, think 2-3 steps ahead, remember your team has 2 CVs too - wait for spotting / map info to decide how you play. 

 

4) Now the ship selection determines my strategy as well! If I have a DD with decent AA and concealment (like USS Kidd), I play full on SUPPORT ROLE protecting my ships with AA and providing smokes and spotting. If I'm in a fast gunboat DD - I can either SCREEN the fleet (whilst benefitting from friendly AA) or be the SOLO-FLANKER if I have decent AA of my own, all the while speed boosting, dodging and dealing raw damage. If I'm a silent torp boat, I have to read what the CV is doing and play off that. 

 

5) As a DD, you have to be smart with your choice of consumables. Smoke, DFAA. Never PANIC PRESS a consumable. Smoke is a get out of jail free card if you get focused by the CV, but it's better used inside or close to caps. But what about Radar, you will say? Well, if you drop a smoke in the vicinity of a Worcester or a Moskva, maybe your positioning and forward thinking wasn't great this game (see points above), maybe you were YOLOing (again, see above). DFAA - again, use it smartly. If the CV is sending torpedo planes for you, you're better off dodging and saving DFAA for the rocket planes which might come next. Again... just think 2-3 steps ahead. 

 

6) I now communicate more in chat. Yes, teamwork is very scarce in Randoms, but if you don't ask for support - you don't get. And look, if your entire team is struggling to think and breathe at the same time, you wouldn't increase your chances of winning even if you were all sat in the same room and communicating. BUT - if there are decent players on your team - you can always make a few smart plays if you communicate. Try it. Don't be toxic yourself and you will deal with less toxic players. 

 

 

In conclusion - please don't ruin CVs, Wargaming. For once, they we're actually INTERESTING (if not always enjoyable) to play against. Try to distinguish CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM from the dedicated player base, and the "noise" from people who rage because their old style of play requires change. 

 

Was patch 8.0 perfect? HELL NO! I have a long list of complaints. 

Did it require more work? A lot, yes. 

Does hitting CVs over the head with a shovel 1 week after launch inspire confidence and constructive feedback / dialogue? Very very unlikely... 

 

The Hotfix is already making people stop playing CVs outside of T4 and T6. If your plan was to increase the popularity of the CV class, you're doing it wrong!

 

sincerely, 

DD main. 

[GABEROFF]

Alle 6/2/2019 alle 23:52, RedAnark ha scritto:

The usual bloody Yankee attitude of WG... R I D I C O L O U S !!!!!!!

 

So they nerf my Shokaku, my torps planes, but they forget, of course, that a US Lexington when attacks with torps launch N° 3 (Three) torps, while the Jap launch only 2 torps at a time... May be it's not a problem of Shokaku, but it's a problem of faulty US CV players....!

I'm surprised? No at all.

 

You just need to check which ships are sailing almost safe since the introduction of this unfortunate CV rework: Which one? Sorry, can you repeat louder? Did you say US ones? Did you say UK ones? Did I hear well? Yes, those bloody yankees US/UK ships can sail almost safe with their AA ranging from70 to 90....

Have you ever tried to get close to a Minotaur? A Worcester? A Salem? A Conqueror? Just name it, its' not going to be any other nation than those two bloody ones!

 

So this release HOT FIX is just the kind, servile answer to the rant of US CV players.... good job! You ruined this game with this CV rework, now you ruining every player that do not play a bloody US/UK ships... ! Ah, ah, ah....

 

You should change the name of this game to: WORLD OF US/UK WARSHIPS or just US/UK WARSHIP WORLD

 

 

P.S

Am I wrong? Sorry I'm not!... read Developer Bulletin 8.1.... what's coming next?? Sorry what?..... ah, ah, ah... UK Carriers.... ah, ah, ah.....

Change the name of this game if you are a little honest! Txs WG!

 

 

Mate, the more accurate term will be*edited*

[novents]

Also, this - 

 

 

 

Some good suggestions being made. 

[AlexFari]

One thing I don't understand, please make it clear for me.

so imagine a Tier 9 battle, with tier 8 CV and some Tier 7 ships in it and you are in an Atlanta...

here is the question. do I have to ask a Benson to provide AA support for me which is 6 times better than my AA just for 1 tier difference ?!!!

Because these numbers says the exact same thing !!!

[anunnak]

53 minutes ago, novents said:

Perspective from a DD main. I have ~80% of games played in DDs, have never played aircraft carriers (no prejudice, just not interested in air warfare), but faced enough CVs in T8-10 random matches to add my two cents. 

 

and.... I ACTULLY ENJOYED 8.0. Yes, there was a huge (!) learning curve. Yes, there were games when I raged so hard (losing 50% of your HP and 2-3 modules to Midway rockets within the first 30 seconds was no fun). But patch 8.0 brought a different dynamic to the gameplay, and forced me to adapt my in-game strategy and re-learn basic tactics -

 

1) I now sail closer to my team and don't YOLO into caps to get spotted and focused by 6 enemy ships straight away. New gameplay punishes reckless / brainless tactics and promotes forward thinking. 

 

2) I now have to TIME my approach on cap (between air waves) and READ the situation (positioning of friendly / enemy ships) to decide on next steps. New gameplay promotes situational awareness and general thinking. 

 

3) CV controlling only 1 squadron at a time means they can only be in one place (area of the map) at a time! Unlike the old RTS-style where a competent player could spot and lock down the entire map with 4-6 squadrons. Use this to create advantage in areas where the CV is not present. 

EXAMPLE -  If there's 1 CV and 2 DDs, one of you has a clear run on cap, the other DD plays more defensively and stays close to friendly AA. If there's 2 CVs and 1 DD (it happens too), do NOT YOLO, be patient, think 2-3 steps ahead, remember your team has 2 CVs too - wait for spotting / map info to decide how you play. 

 

4) Now the ship selection determines my strategy as well! If I have a DD with decent AA and concealment (like USS Kidd), I play full on SUPPORT ROLE protecting my ships with AA and providing smokes and spotting. If I'm in a fast gunboat DD - I can either SCREEN the fleet (whilst benefitting from friendly AA) or be the SOLO-FLANKER if I have decent AA of my own, all the while speed boosting, dodging and dealing raw damage. If I'm a silent torp boat, I have to read what the CV is doing and play off that. 

 

5) As a DD, you have to be smart with your choice of consumables. Smoke, DFAA. Never PANIC PRESS a consumable. Smoke is a get out of jail free card if you get focused by the CV, but it's better used inside or close to caps. But what about Radar, you will say? Well, if you drop a smoke in the vicinity of a Worcester or a Moskva, maybe your positioning and forward thinking wasn't great this game (see points above), maybe you were YOLOing (again, see above). DFAA - again, use it smartly. If the CV is sending torpedo planes for you, you're better off dodging and saving DFAA for the rocket planes which might come next. Again... just think 2-3 steps ahead. 

 

6) I now communicate more in chat. Yes, teamwork is very scarce in Randoms, but if you don't ask for support - you don't get. And look, if your entire team is struggling to think and breathe at the same time, you wouldn't increase your chances of winning even if you were all sat in the same room and communicating. BUT - if there are decent players on your team - you can always make a few smart plays if you communicate. Try it. Don't be toxic yourself and you will deal with less toxic players. 

 

 

In conclusion - please don't ruin CVs, Wargaming. For once, they we're actually INTERESTING (if not always enjoyable) to play against. 

 

sincerely, 

DD main. 

 

Getting spotted in the first minute of the game and losing 50% of your HP is not dynamic gameplay. It's called unbalance. Only bad players YOLO on the map and to use your words "brainless", changing this bad tactic is common sense not forward thinking.  CV rework didn't help that, bad players will always yolo and suicide. I saw this since i first logged into the game, the patch didn't change anything for brainless people. Brainless people dont change their minds, because they dont have a brain. 

 

2) That's exactly the opposite, you DONT have time because in most cases you are spotted in the first min of the game and you have to smoke. If you have two CV's and hit you one by one when is your windows to think about it?

 

 Read and think about the situation on the map between waves? That's a truism, actualy you have to do that all the time since the game was released in 2015. 

 

3) Actualy you play against 12 other players, you know?...the enemy might have their own DDs to counter you? The other DD will stay and play defensive? like where? in random battles? and how to plan this strategy, u draw lots? 

 

4) Ship selection determines your strategy? Clearly...another truism. Good luck with your solo flanking beeing detected very often in the first minute. I really like to see how you flank when DD's are priority targets and planes can be anywhere on the map in several seconds.

 

5) Smoke is a jail free card? really? when u get dropped in the first minute of the game or after? And if the cruiser has 11 km radar and i'm attacked by a CV and spotted all the time by it...what then?

 

6) Yes yes...communication. Alot of people don't even know basic english not to mention that alot of times even if u propose a plan nobody cares and lets not talk about beeing reported just for opening your mouth  and suggesting that a position is dangerous or don't go there because you will die, or don't charge alone, etc. Decent players usualy already know how to play one map or the other. In any case theory and practice is quite diffrent. Not a bad advice to communicate more, that is if anyone cares to listen. 

 

The CV as they were released were broken and the vast mojority of the community on all servers think the same, not to mention the community contributors. I'm for one am for balance and they need to work to find the right spot for them and not to ruin everyone's experience.

[anunnak]

1 minute ago, AlexFari said:

One thing I don't understand, please make it clear for me.

so imagine a Tier 9 battle, with tier 8 CV and some Tier 7 ships in it and you are in an Atlanta...

here is the question. do I have to ask a Benson to provide AA support for me which is 6 times better than my AA just for 1 tier difference ?!!!

Because these numbers says the exact same thing !!! Please tell me I am wrong !!!

 

The AA is broken at the moment. We have to wait and see what fixes they make. They didn't care about what the community and testers told them and they released a broken patch. Now it's a chaos trying to fix it.

[GABEROFF]

3 hours ago, shodan84 said:

This is my first post ever on WOWS forums. I am CV player. I have always enjoyed RTS but I understand its issues. I had mixed feelings about CV rework, but it was tested... a lot. I took part of PTS and it was hard, but manageable.

 

Then 0.8.0 goes live, i managed to learn how to play, to dodge black bubles of death, to choose my targets carefully, to be patient, to fly around and try to find a single target. I think surface ships changed tactics, new meta, new challenges. GREAT! i really started to like this new rework thing. CV gameplay became more exciting but was still tactical - PERFECT. Good job WG! You introduced new ideas, tested them, and you took players feedback too so players were happy.

 

And now this 0.8.0.1 HOT FIX - no tests, no feedback, just ONE BIG CRAP STRAIGHT INTO MY FACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Really? Seriously?? You spent all this time testing CV rework to now do all this crap? CV are not playable. My torp planes cannot avoid black bubbles anymore because i have to fly straight and loose my planes!

 

I really liked CV rework, being mainly cv players it was fun, it worked, it was ok...

 

Now you ruined it with your fix with no testing whatsoever? just sledgehammer everything because dd players are unhappy?

 

My friend just stopped playing WOWS last week, and i might follow and stop wasting my time on the game - everytime it starts to be fine you brake it!!!

 

i need a hug, or wine

Let me hug you, mate! This hot fix (crap) nerfed CVs to the ground. Quite painful to all CV players. Within a day my Haku turned into a pile of rusty steel....