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Sub_Octavian

New AA mechanics explained

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WG Staff
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Hello everyone!

 

Update 0.8.0 has been released recently, and of course there are a lot of questions, specifically about the new anti-air defense mechanic. In this article we're going to discuss all details about 0.8.0 AA - how it works, how it interacts with commander skills and upgrades, and everything else.

 

Please note that the CV rework introduced in 0.8.0 will undergo a lot of tweaking and balancing, so the information here may get outdated at some point by subsequent changes.

 

How it used to be pre-0.8.0


In brief, planes got shot down with a certain probability (dependent on AA potential), and the planes, in fact, did not have effective individual hit points. At the same time, AA mounts did not have minimal range, so AA generally grew a lot stronger closer to the ship. It caused two issues:

 

  • Probability-based and erratic plane destruction used to create too much RNG - sometimes squadrons got wiped out in a moment, sometimes AA seemed to have zero effect;
  • Lack of minimal firing range interrupted with creating proper AA support specs, so that the ships could cover their allies properly, but would not be invulnerable at closer range;


How it works now


1.Each plane has individual hit points. If a planes 'dips' into AA range, it will be damaged according to the respective AA strength, and the damage will be recorded (so it will be easier to shoot down later) indicated by the green/yellow/red HP bars.

2.Each AA group has a minimum range now, so short, medium and long range AA on one ship do not overlap, which gives much more options for balancing the AA in general and gives a lot of potential for AA variety.

For example, let's look at Baltimore AA. Close range is 0,1-1,5 km, medium is 1,5-3,5, long range covers 3,5-5,8 km.

 

image.thumb.png.6773f5d3750bd4892c035cda

 

3. Now there is "hit chance" parameter for AA. It allows for a better fine tuning of AA mounts per class and tier - usually it is higher for more modern ships, which represents more modern AA fire control systems. Hit chance affects flak bursts and constant DPS.

4. AA damage is dealt in two ways now:

 

  • Constant DPS in the respective AA range. The damage dealt is DPS multiplied with Hit chance, so, if you have 100 DPS and 70% hit chance, you will deal 70 damage per second. This damage is being dealt to each squadron in the AA range (and it's not being spread - each squadron receives full DPS). It also worth noting that within the squadron it is being dealt to a randomly chosen plane, one at a time (basically AA quickly shoots at all planes in a squadron, plane by plane). This is why some of your planes are getting damaged a bit earlier, and some - a bit later in constant DPS area.
  • Flak bursts (for medium and long range AA only). A flak burst is a specific volume in a three dimensional space, and if a plane physically gets inside it, the damage (usually very large) is applied to it (that exact plane). Actual average number of flak bursts is: base flak bursts parameter, multiplied by Hit chance. 

 

image.thumb.png.b309be4f352f8b791c459b9e 

 

Flak bursts appear on the calculated squadron path, within the specified zones (see the picture). Mostly the bursts will be concentrated in narrow A zone directly on squadron path, and if it's full of bursts already, the rest will go to the side B zones (which makes maneuvering more challenging).

 

2034727208_1.thumb.png.dcc1a47cf980dd61a

 

More about these flak bursts


Please note once again that the info here, especially balance values, is subject to change.

 

Flak bursts appear each 2 seconds. The burst "physical" size depends on AA mount caliber - larger caliber guns give bigger bursts.

 

Zone width (X) depends on squadron speed. It will be quite wide (X1) if current squadron speed is high, and it will be narrow (X2) if the planes are going at minimal speed. That means that using throttle is very important for dodging flak bursts.

Effective flak burst amount, as mentioned before is base flak burst parameter multiplied with Hit chance. Normal (Gauss) distribution is applied, and the minimal burst size is symmetrical to the maximum. That means that with 10 base burst size and 70% hit chance, it will mostly be 7 bursts, 10 is maximum number and 4 is minimum.

 

With a single ship AA,  80% of flak bursts (but not more than 6) is being placed in zone A. The rest goes to side B zones. Flak bursts do not overlap each other.

 

Let's check Baltimore once again (the scaling on these pictures is simplified).

 

Long range AA has spawned 5 bursts, so 5 go to A zone and 1 goes to B zone.

 

398965665_1.png.228e2c6324e6056c3c6f6443

 

Medium range AA has spawned 11 bursts, so A zone gets 6 bursts (of lesser size) and 5 bursts go to B.

 

1419839816_2.thumb.png.67e8593a9aed0816b

 

If there are several ships firing, the rules are slightly different: up to 8 bursts can be placed in A zone combined and up to 10 bursts - in A zones. The most powerful burst are being chosen in this case.

 

280555438_3.thumb.png.9508781010a61efd65

 

This limit gives at least slight chance for attack even against a strong AA group.

 

If a single AA group has multiple squadrons in range, flak bursts that would have been in B zone otherwise, are distributed into A zones so that AA covers all squadrons. That said, long and medium range AA still do not overlap, so if one enemy squadron is at medium range, and the other is at long range, that means each of them will interact with its respective AA group without any mixing and overlapping.

 

AA reinforcement and visual hints


AA can be reinforced two ways in battle.

 

1.Defensive AA consumable: constant DPS and flak bursts damage increases, and the bursts turn red. 

 

965770821_.thumb.gif.3944a232ecaba3f0a5a

 

Regular bursts are orange, and defensive AA bursts are red.

 

Usually the increase is x2 for cruisers and x3 for destroyers.

 

2. AA sector reinforcement (via special menu bound to "~" and "O" keys). Constant DPS in the chosen sector is increased by 25-60% (depends on class and shown in the Port) at the expense of the other sector. AA tracers in the prioritized sector turn red.

 

AA sectors don't have any transition states, they are either reinforced, normal or weakened. Changing the state takes time, so you should do it in advance. If a squadron is at the border between two sectors, the sector it is in is determined by the amount of planes; if 7 planes are in the right sector, and 2 are in the left, the squadron is considered to be in the right.

 

 

Skills and upgrades
Upgrades

 

  • AA mod.1 - slot 3 (available from tier 5). Gives +2 to flak burst base value for long and medium range AA. Especially useful for the ships with low amount of bursts.
  • AA mod.2 - slot 6 (available from tier 9). Increases both constant DPS at all ranges and flak bursts damage by 15%. A very powerful AA buff, but at the cost of other efficient upgrades in the slot.

 

Skills

 

 

  • (I) Direction center for fighters - +1 Fighter when you use the respective consumable;
  • (III) Basic firing training - Increases constant DPS at all ranges by 10% (and increases rate of fire of all secondaries and main guns of caliber up to and including 139mm by 10%);
  • (IV) Advanced firing training - Increases flak burst damage by 15% (and increases range of fire of all secondaries and main guns of caliber up to and including 139mm by 20%);
  • (IV) Manual Fire Control for AA Armament - increases the efficiency of sector reinforcing by 20% (which means 150% from 125%, for example) and reduces the time for switching by 20%.


So how do I maximize my AA defense?


First of all, AA reinforcement influences only constant DPS, so if you want to play around it, you better pick a ship with a lot of constant DPS. Additionally keep in mind that the switching time is different per class - 5 seconds for destroyers, 10 seconds for cruisers, 12 seconds for battleships and 15 seconds for carriers.

 

Using this mechanic will require extra attention from you, but in return you will increase the type of damage that is constant and impossible to dodge. With Manual Fire Control your damage multiplier gets even more serious - x1,5 for cruisers and battleships, x1,8 for destroyers and x1,92 for carriers.

What's even better, you can maximize this DPS with Basic Firing Trainng - and that skill is useful for most destroyers and secondary-specced battleships.

 

Advanced firing training is especially useful for the ships with low constant DPS and high amount of flak bursts, and it combines well with AA mod.1. As with Basic Firing Training, this skill is beneficial for secondaries and small caliber main guns.

 

Direction center for fighters can be very influential on low level, where the fighter squadron is small. Overall, we would recommend it only as the last priority, or when you have 1 extra point to spend.

 

What are the best maneuvers when being attacked by different squadrons?

 

  • Attack planes deal the least amount of damage, but they are very fast, agile and relatively easy to aim. Their rocket dispersion is different per game nation, so you should typically not expose broadside to the USN attack planes, and try to avoid going bow or aft against IJN and RN planes.
  • Dive bombers are usually slower and it's hard for them to adjust their aim while in the attack run. That means quick maneuvering is the key, and, as their dispersion pattern is usually long, they deal the most damage with bow or aft attack runs.
  • Torpedo bombers have different attack run patterns per nation, but they have one common thing - they always try to catch you broadside to maximize the number of hits. USN torpedo bombers usually carry more torpedoes per attack, but they have more challenging aiming, so evasive maneuvers in advance will make their life much more difficult. IJN torpedo bombers usually carry torpedoes with relatively long range, so beware of long drops and pay attention even if they do something on the edge of your visibility.


Remember about other enemies while dodging CV attacks. Sometimes it's better to take some damage from a CV instead of exposing your broadside to its BB allies.

And as a destroyer, don't forget about "P" button which turns AA off. You typically have great concealment, and being spotted late can be more advantageous than firing your AA immediately. If you appear close enough, the enemy squadron can easily fly overhead and miss the first attack run.

 

We hope this article was useful and you now have a better and clearer understanding of AA mechanics now.

Thank you!

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Beta Tester
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Shortly speaking: if carrier player wont make mistakes, he will attacks You and get minimal loses. Nothing depends on You. You are just a target for a sadist, You cant defend against, nor You can punch back. Love it!

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WG Staff
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1 minute ago, ZaPierogi said:

Shortly speaking: if carrier player wont make mistakes, he will attacks You and get minimal loses. Nothing depends on You. You are just a target for a sadist, You cant defend against, nor You can punch back. Love it!

Sigh.

No. Because you have maneuver, continuous DPS, Def AA (on some ships) and sector reinforcement.

The value of DPS  (and effectively, Def AA and reinforcement) will increase significantly, as stated in my previous post about 0.8.0 hot-fix patch.

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[SHEN]
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Thanks for explanation. But some questions stay :

 

- Japan long drop of torp make AA usless, it's normal or a "bug" feature ?

- AA defense don't reward player skill, only RNG and CV skill for avoid Flak, WG are aware of it ?

- AA ships (know and sell for this feature) are now weak and not usefull for defend fleet and Himeself. I want to know If I ask for refund or wait a very good buff ?

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Manouvering means show broadside to enemy ships, if You reinforce AA planes disengage and find other target, they'll be back in 40 secs. Long range arty shooting at predicted movement of the plane if planes not moving straight course and changing speed AA hit nothing. If continious DPS starts making planes red and yellow "F" key and 0 losses for a carrier. BTW through all that time You are spotted for enemy. Like I said: how many planes You will shot depends only from a carrier player. 

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Just a Short question @Sub_Octavian:

As i read, you already plan to change AA little bit. Less damage in flak bursts,  more on constant dps. If this change comes, the BFT Skill gets stronger, but AFT weaker. Do you also plan to  change these Skills? 

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21 minutes ago, HipSGuinness said:

- Japan long drop of torp make AA usless, it's normal or a "bug" feature ?

Long drop is "low risk - low reward" gameplay. It's 50(55)knt torps from a known source 6-8 km away. You do the math.

 

24 minutes ago, HipSGuinness said:

- AA defense don't reward player skill, only RNG and CV skill for avoid Flak, WG are aware of it ?

Much better than before the rework where it was just a number and dice rolls.

How in-depth of a mini-game do you want AA to be? Switch to AA mode and manually fire your AA mounts?

 

29 minutes ago, HipSGuinness said:

- AA ships (know and sell for this feature) are now weak and not usefull for defend fleet and Himeself. I want to know If I ask for refund or wait a very good buff ?

No ships have AA as a crutch for being relevant. If they had then they would have been useless before the rework when we didn't have CVs in basically any battles.

You can't complain about AA ships you bought back when AA was pointless.

The oldest "AA ship" you could buy was the Yubari. It's AA got nerfed (when IJN 25mm AA was nerfed globally) and was never compensated for it. So take that as an indication of what is likely to happen.

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40 minutes ago, Sub_Octavian said:

Sigh.

No. Because you have maneuver, continuous DPS, Def AA (on some ships) and sector reinforcement.

The value of DPS  (and effectively, Def AA and reinforcement) will increase significantly, as stated in my previous post about 0.8.0 hot-fix patch.

Questions: 

-will dps increase will turn high AA ships into untouchable fortresses on their own?

-there was mention about lowering flak burst effectiveness, combined with the former it sounds like nerf to low AA ships - 0 dps multiplied by x is still 0, while flak bursts enable those ships to knock down at least something

-less important, but more of a curiosity - is dps assigned per mount, like it used to be (ship with 4x quad bofors have double the dps than ship with 2x quad) or its purely balancing value now?

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Quote

 

 

  • Probability-based and erratic plane destruction used to create too much RNG - sometimes squadrons got wiped out in a moment, sometimes AA seemed to have zero effect;
  • Lack of minimal firing range interrupted with creating proper AA support specs, so that the ships could cover their allies properly, but would not be invulnerable at closer range;

Well these issues still remain intact !

Skilled CV player dodges most of flak bursts ! sometimes you get whole squadrons wiped in a second and sometimes you get nothing (depends on players cv skill) !!! RNG gave her place to skill but it is PVE not PVP !!

 

I saw so many worcesters got rekt with only one squade !an AA cruiser than can't even defend herself !

 

Quote

And as a destroyer, don't forget about "P" button which turns AA off. You typically have great concealment, and being spotted late can be more advantageous than firing your AA immediately. If you appear close enough, the enemy squadron can easily fly overhead and miss the first attack run.

 

 

The P button !! having 2 CVs searching for DD inch by inch as soon as they can fly their rockets a DD can't even get close to cap or spot . even if you dodge first attack run you will get rekt by cruisers waiting for cv to spot !now cvs drop DDs even in smoke tracing their AA !!! returning to ship they leave a fighter above DD !!!

and the concealment is a joke right now cv spots everything even themselves that used to remain unspotted for entire battle time before update are spotted at first minutes !

 

@Sub_Octavian please watch this replay . our DD barely moved from her spawn it is 19:30 min of battle what could he do?!!! planes spotting needs  tweaks and fighters don't need to spot at all !!!

20190207_001448_PASB018-Iowa-1944_47_Sleeping_Giant.wowsreplay

ps.don't laugh at my battle performance i'm below average  :cat_bubble:

 

 

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18 hours ago, Sub_Octavian said:

Sigh.

No. Because you have maneuver, continuous DPS, Def AA (on some ships) and sector reinforcement.

The value of DPS  (and effectively, Def AA and reinforcement) will increase significantly, as stated in my previous post about 0.8.0 hot-fix patch.

 

Edited

Edited by Asklepi0s
This post has been edited by the moderation team due to Insulting remarks
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1 hour ago, Sub_Octavian said:

Sigh.

No. Because you have maneuver, continuous DPS, Def AA (on some ships) and sector reinforcement.

The value of DPS  (and effectively, Def AA and reinforcement) will increase significantly, as stated in my previous post about 0.8.0 hot-fix patch.

Try this in a Yamato with 56 AA rating. useless ship now. Even with "Highly efficient AA" in the ship discription. Worthless.

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1 hour ago, Altharius said:

Try this in a Yamato with 56 AA rating. useless ship now. Even with "Highly efficient AA" in the ship discription. Worthless.

Try changing AA sectors while maneuvering to dodge rockets and cruiser shells and incoming torps !

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3 minutes ago, Atorpad said:

Try changing AA sectors while maneuvering to dodge rockets and cruiser shells and incoming torps !

Any sort of maneuvres in Yamato are an exercise in futility XD If you get to a point where you need to do hard turns, you are doing it wrong XD

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[ARP]
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Just dodge guys, its simple :D /s

Araloth_of_Talsyn: Just pray for RNG and that enemy CV is not skilled to dodge burst...thats all you can do.

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7 hours ago, Nechrom said:

Long drop is "low risk - low reward" gameplay. It's 50(55)knt torps from a known source 6-8 km away. You do the math. 

 

Have you seen iChase vid about this? Its not as "low" rewards as you think, because you spam alot of torps.

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1 hour ago, Zemeritt said:

Have you seen iChase vid about this? Its not as "low" rewards as you think, because you spam alot of torps.

And you do what, like 4.9k on average per torp hit?

That's nice if you can make sure you get at least 30+ hits per battle.

Even with cross drops that requires some epic fails from your targets to allow for that.

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@Sub_Octavian, one answer to a question is missing: The yellow and red (aa damage) numbers: What do they mean?
I thought dps and explosions, but I saw fighter causing yellow and red numbers. Also sometimes the red number is small or a yellow number is huge, which wouldn't fit with explosions or dps.

 

and thanks for the effort :)

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7 hours ago, Araloth_of_Talsyn said:

do you have a TL,DR version of the opening post?

Are you serious? xD

It's a pretty short, but detailed post :D

 

If you want a shorter post, you have to go for the patch notes, this post explains exactly how it works - the mechanics

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Please just refund me the Kaga and I am out of this game at least for a year. last patch is a total failure and, by my experience, it will take you a lot of time to fix some of your mistakes

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If you play with good AA ship you have a chance to Shot down a Plain but you will get hit by Plains 100% enemy attacks will always get to your ship. That Airplanes are made of Titanium? AA is ineffective. If you play Battelship you will get Raped by Aircraft carriers. You do not have a chance to survive. Torpedo bombers hit you AP bombers hit you and flooding. AA cant hit a crap. AA can't defend a ship. And this rocket Airplanes are OP like others and are death for DD

You can't do anything against that Airplanes and thy rape you with rocket. 

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I can't help but think that there a few issues with how AA works, conceptually.

 

- First off, reducing the range of AA inevitably reduces teamplay. This in itself is something I have a very hard time appreciating as a good change in an allegedly team based game.

 

- Then we have the other effect of a CV being able to spot the vast majority of enemy ships while staying outside of any of their AA. This will be a huge factor in any form of competitive gameplay, i.e. if we think of CVs in Clan Battles, KotS or Ranked.

 

- All destroyers are in a particular tough spot right now. Not only is their AA just not up to the task of defeating a full squadron of same tier planes, their generally short AA range makes it easy for a CV to keep them spotted by dipping in and out of their range if he really wants to make their life misterable. 

- Additionally, the concept of distributing damage evenly on all planes present in a squadron creates a snowball effect that makes CVs even more powerful. The more planes there are in a squadron, the lower the chance that you will lose planes, but once you start losing planes, you'll lose them in quick succession. This means that a full squadron of planes will almost always get an attack through, fairly much regardless of how strong the AA is (I'm exagerrating slightly here for emphasis, but it's really hard to get that kind of AA from any single ship). 

If the squadrons would lose planes in a continuous manner, they would thin out earlier, but also not vanish as abruptly as they do now if a CV player was caugh in a lot of AA all of a sudden. The effect would be that plane regeneration would be a lot more important to CV players, encouriging more careful instead of being able to basically attack anything with a full squad and be sure to lose none or only very few planes in the process.

- Back to DDs, there isn't really anything they can actively do to avoid being spotted by CV planes or to defend themselves from attacks. Their AA is, as previously mentionend, just not up to the task and while they are able to dodge torpedoes and dive bombers most of the time, they can't really do anything much against attack aircraft with rockets. CV attack aircraft can fairly reliably damage a DD with rockets, inflicting some 3-5k damage per salvo at T10. The CV can do 3 -4 attacks, which would already be upwards of 50% of a DD's HP pool, press F and come back only a few seconds later with a full new squad. I fully appreciate that these attack aircraft are semi-intended as a self defense mechanism for CVs, but at the same time, the rather opressive spotting that CVs can provide in combination with this kind of effectiveness means that a DD has not much choice other than to stick close to friendly ships and hope that the CV finds a more interesting target. Also, thanks to Radio Location working from planes, a CV has no problem whatsoever to find any and all enemy ships within a minute or two.

 

- Talking about sectors, they are not really intuitive to use. The idea sounds interesting, but having to dig into a submenu while in a fight isn't an optimal solution. I'd prefer if sector control was done via hotkeys (left, center, right) instead. However, considering how quickly planes can shift their attack vector and how long it takes for some ships to change their sector reinforcement, I do think there is a need to work a bit more on how this is supposed to work.

 

- Making long range AA entirely avoidable increases the almost omnipresent spotting problematic further. If there is no or next to no cost for a CV to keep enemy ships spotted, then the AA does not serve it's purpose already, particularly when we're keeping competitive gameplay in mind, where information is even more a key for everything.

 

Additionally, I really feel that this new way how AA works isn't anywhere near good enough. It's a system almost completely outside of player influence (other than captain perks, modules, sectors, def aa) inside a rework that by itself already removed a few teamplay aspects of CVs, compared to the old RTS system (fighters, torp spotting). The interaction between planes and AA is entirely a PvE concept now and I'd really want more ways to interact with other players as a CV. Not only would / should it feel more meaningful (skillful) to get in a successful attack, it would also mean that surface ships would have a more options than just pray and try to dodge. 

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9 hours ago, Nechrom said:

And you do what, like 4.9k on average per torp hit?

That's nice if you can make sure you get at least 30+ hits per battle.

Even with cross drops that requires some epic fails from your targets to allow for that.

 

 

180k in ~9 mins ?

 

It doesn't even require that much "epic" fails from the enemy. It's basicly just as the old 20km Shimas

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3 hours ago, Zemeritt said:

180k in ~9 mins ?

On average? No, he has 138k average per battle. Only 5k more than pre-rework Haku.

Almost exactly the same damage as with the Conqueror.

 

3 hours ago, Zemeritt said:

It doesn't even require that much "epic" fails from the enemy. It's basicly just as the old 20km Shimas

Excuse me if I'm not that worried then. Shima 20km were crap, even before the nerf.

 

I also have a hard time comparing 20km torps from an invisible source to 8km torps from a visible source.

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14 minutes ago, Nechrom said:

I also have a hard time comparing 20km torps from an invisible source to 8km torps from a visible source.

 

Problem: The planes can stealthtorp too. They get detected around 6.4km ish.

 

15 minutes ago, Nechrom said:

Excuse me if I'm not that worried then. Shima 20km were crap, even before the nerf.

 

Still it was a major concern back then with the amount of Shimas.

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